Maxidrive axle flange keeps on loosening

[GyroLandy]

I have search the forum and havd read the various posts on why the Maxidrive flanges (especially the left rear) come loose but have a few questions. This is probably the fourth time the five flange bolts on the left rear have worked themselves loose and that after me using locktite and springwashers.

So it seems it could either be a bent shaft (although I understood the maxidrive shafts to be much stronger than the standard ones so would not think that is likely) or a worn wheel bearing. Both items look fine but can anyone tell me the best way to test both the straightness of the shaft as well as the wheel bearing.

Also, is there more that I can do other than locktite and springwashers?

[MR LR]

Drill holes across the heads of the bolts and run a ring of wire through them all.

[steveG]

Stronger grade of loctite? Did you clean the threads well with solvent before you loctited them?

IIRC, there was mention in a thread somewhere about the issue possibly being related to a bent housing.

In general terms (ie not half shaft specific), to check a shaft for straight you'd support it at (or near) each end with some parallel pieces, on a flat table.
Roll the shaft and measure the distance between the middle of the shaft and the table - if it changes the shaft is bent. Parallel shafts such as pushrods etc can just be rolled on the table and it will be obvious if they are bent, but things such as half shafts that have larger ends for splines etc need to be supported and measured.

Steve

[uninformed]

Drill holes across the heads of the bolts and run a ring of wire through them all.

Why? if everything is ok he should not need to. Putting a bandaid on the sympton is not curing the problem

[uninformed]

I have search the forum and havd read the various posts on why the Maxidrive flanges (especially the left rear) come loose but have a few questions. This is probably the fourth time the five flange bolts on the left rear have worked themselves loose and that after me using locktite and springwashers.

So it seems it could either be a bent shaft (although I understood the maxidrive shafts to be much stronger than the standard ones so would not think that is likely) or a worn wheel bearing. Both items look fine but can anyone tell me the best way to test both the straightness of the shaft as well as the wheel bearing.

Also, is there more that I can do other than locktite and springwashers?

If you have doubt in the bearings just buy new ones, they are not that expensive. But regardless, make sure everything is very clean when re assembling. Not just wire wheeling the threads on the bolts, but you have to clean the threads in the hubs. What is your proceedure for setting the wheel bearings up? What torque are you doing the drive flange bolts to? Are the bolts now stuffed?

[MR LR]

Why? if everything is ok he should not need to. Putting a bandaid on the sympton is not curing the problem
I was just answering his question about keeping the bolts tight, I would fix the problem personally.

[Sitec]

Hi. You've got me worried now... My Maxi Drive/HyTough Shaft ends are hidden by Alloys!! Will have to take a wheel off now! :). In my opinion even if the shaft was bent it wouldn't cause the bolts to loosen, as that shaft is running with the hub, and the 'bend load' would be stain in the same place on the hub.. I fitted all mine with the gasket (some say don't bother with a gasket... I disagree), original bolts and spring washers and have had no problems. Had to use some new bolts tho as the previous heavy handed owner had managed to stretch some! If you have a decent bolt supplier, go in and ask for 20 M10 'Nord Lock' washers. He should give you 40 serrated disks. These things work! If it still loosens then you have issues! The other thing worth doing is pulling both rear shafts and looking thru the left side to the right... If you can see bend, there's your issue.. Good luck! :)

[cewilson]

I always replace my bolts every second or third wheel bearing adjustment. They have a real bad habit of either snapping inside of the hub, or stripping the thread. Make sure you use a proper grade bolt as well - it is cheaper to go to a bolt place than bother with any Landrover supplier.

When I do reuse them, I run them over the wire wheel to clean them up properly first. I add loctite to the tip of the bolt, so when the bolt is done up the loctite will run up the thread of the bolt. If you add it to the top of the thread it won't run back down the thread.

The torque is a little on the light side, but this is because of the chance of stripping the thread. I've found after a good 4WDing session that I need to run the wrench back over them, and generally a few will be loose. Nothing to worry about IMHO, it's just a weak point so to speak.

Lastly if the thread inside the hub is suspect, then drill it out and helicoil it. Easy enough to do and saves you worrying about it in the first place.

At the end of the day all the torque goes through those 5 bolts. You generally won't have any issue on-road, it's more an off-road issue due to the lower gears/higher torque. Mechanical sympathy goes a long way here.

[weeds]

:eek::eek: i just put loctite on the bolts and do then up till my elbow clicks, never had one come loose and i am real lazy with cleaning the threads. whatever doesnt come off when i run the pliers around the thread well it stays on. i also use a gasket with gasket gue

[Bush65]

When i put Maxi-drive axles in my old disco I thought the supplied bolts were a little on the short side for my liking.

This was a last minute job before heading down to the high country for a month. A couple of days into the trip, I noticed oil leaking from the flange to hub joint and loose bolts. Then throughout the trip it was a case of tightening bolts every day.

After returning, the threads on the bolts and presumably in the hubs didn't give a warm fuzzy feeling. The problem was fixed by using longer bolts. Because of the thread wear issue I used bolts that had a shank length greater than the thickness of the flange. To fit these, I had to counter-drill the tapped holes in the hubs to suit the distance that the shank protruded through the flange. The burr created at the start of the thread had to be removed with a thread tap, but I wanted the tap to ensure the thread depth was suitable for the longer bolts.

I don't use locktite, but the threads get to pick up some silicon flange sealant.

Never had any more problems with a fair bit of hard use after that.

[Blknight.aus]

common causes are

incorrect bearing adjustment
bent stub axle
stepped stub axle (its a wear thing)
bent axle tube
stretched bolts
plugged bolt holes in the flange
not enough elbow grease on the torque wrench

as alluded to with the lock wire thing.

any thing short of some investigative mechanicary and fixery is just putting a bandaid on it.

[GyroLandy]

Thanks all, does anyone know the size and length of the 5 bolts used for the drive flange to hub?

[steveG]

Thanks all, does anyone know the size and length of the 5 bolts used for the drive flange to hub?

Just happens I've been messing round with flanges/bolts in the last few days:

County (thick drive flanges) 50mm, M10x1.5 Grade 10.9
Tdi vintage Defender (thin flanges) 45mm, M10x1.5 Grade 10.9. Landrover P/N is BX110095M.

I haven't played with anything newer than a Tdi so can't confirm if the later defenders are the same.

Steve

[GyroLandy]

Thx,

I measured the existing bolts and tehy are only 35mm so I woudl imagine with a Maxi-Drive flange being thicker there isn't that much left to grip.

I have decided to go with teh following:

Nordloc washers
A longer allen key bolt (45mm) but also bouth 50mm but need to check whether they will work.
Locktite

Question on the Locktite, I bought the 263 which is the high strength but I see most people refer to the 243 (which I presume is medium strength. Any views on whether I should use the 263 or will I have trouble later getting it undone?

[Bush65]

Thx,

I measured the existing bolts and tehy are only 35mm so I woudl imagine with a Maxi-Drive flange being thicker there isn't that much left to grip.

I have decided to go with teh following:

Nordloc washers
A longer allen key bolt (45mm) but also bouth 50mm but need to check whether they will work.
Locktite

Question on the Locktite, I bought the 263 which is the high strength but I see most people refer to the 243 (which I presume is medium strength. Any views on whether I should use the 263 or will I have trouble later getting it undone?
When I was writing my earlier post, I was fairly certain the new bolts I was supplied with were 35mm long. IMHO too short with maxi-drive flanges.

I also believe I replaced them with 50mm long bolts, but had to counter drill the hub slightly as per my earlier post.

From memory, 45mm long would be about right and not need counter drilling, but I saw advantages in using the 50mm long bolts.

[steveG]

Thx,

I measured the existing bolts and tehy are only 35mm so I woudl imagine with a Maxi-Drive flange being thicker there isn't that much left to grip.

I have decided to go with teh following:

Nordloc washers
A longer allen key bolt (45mm) but also bouth 50mm but need to check whether they will work.
Locktite

Question on the Locktite, I bought the 263 which is the high strength but I see most people refer to the 243 (which I presume is medium strength. Any views on whether I should use the 263 or will I have trouble later getting it undone?

I checked last night and the maxi-drive flange is pretty much the same thickness as the standard defender one (ie thin flange). Within 0.5mm.

I personally wouldn't use allen head bolts as its just another "special" tool you have to have should you ever need to get the flange off trackside.
Your choice though.

50mm bolts on thin flanges became shank-bound when I checked. You might be OK if those Nordloc washers are pretty thick, but best to run a bolt in and measure before fitting the flanges.
If you've been running shorter bolts make sure you clean out any sealant inside the holes as it can be enough to hydraulic and stop the bolts going in to far enough (or rip the threads out if you force the issue).

Don't have any experience with the high-strength Loctites apart from bearing retainer so can't comment on that.

Steve

[Blknight.aus]

your primary loctite products for working on landrovers are

1. loctite 243 pretty much any bolt that gets done up to 65ish nm or to reuse a nyloc
2 loctite 262 any bolt that goes over 65nm
3. silver antisieze or copper antisieze, wheel nut threads and faces and the shanks of any bolt that go into dis-similar metals
4. loctite #3 the brown goopy stuff used to paint on gaskets to help them seal and in somecases to provide a seal.
5. loctite 567 its thread tape in a toothpaste tube, use it on any fitting that uses the thread to achieve a seal