FORD SHUT DOWN OF MANUFACTURING IN AUSTRALIA

[hodgo]

This is a very accurate account of the different industry's and manufactures that we have lost in the past 30 years

From a colleague!!!

I've got an old mate who spent his working life with the Ford Motor Company, mainly as a computer programmer, and after the recent announcement of Ford closure in Australia, I asked what his feelings were.

Sorry? Yes - I feel I have been let down, but I am more sorry for Australia. The problem is not just Ford, it is the whole of Australian primary and secondary industry.
When I joined the industry in 1960 Australia had the following Automotive Manufacturers:-
Ford Australia - (Plants in Geelong, Ballarat, Broadmeadows, Sydney, and Brisbane).
Australian Motor Industries. - (Standard Motor Company and Mercedes Benz, Rambler, and Fiat tractors, - plants in Melbourne and Sydney)
British Motor Corporation - (Austin, Morris - Plants in Melbourne and Sydney)
Chrysler Australia- (Plants in Keswick, Mile End and Finsbury, Continental and General Distributors -(Peugeot - plant in Heidelberg Melbourne) - bought out by Misubishi
Fiat - (tractor assembly at the Pressed Metal Corporation plant in Sydney)
General Motors Holden - (Plants in Port Melbourne, Dandenong, Adelaide, and Sydney)
International Harvester- (Plant in Geelong)
Leyland Motors - (Albion and Scammel , Plants in Melbourne and Sydney)
Renault (Australia) - (assembled by Clyde Industries, Victoria)
Rootes (Australia) - (Plants at Port Melbourne and Dandenong)
Rover (Australia) - (Pressed Metal Corporation Sydney - most of the land rover was made and assembled in Oz)
Volkswagen (Australia) - (Plant in Clayton Victoria)
Willys Motors (Australia) - (Plant in Rocklea Brisbane)
White Trucks (Brisbane)
There was also another company assembling one of the early Japanese imports at Kangaroo Point.
Then of course there was our own Repco, a major automotive parts manufacturer and engine re-builder at that stage, and a company which was then more than capable of building the first all Australian car
These were not fly-by-nighters, some of them were in existence as early as 1914 - one hundred years ago!!
From that foundation the only one left is GMH, whose very existence as a manufacturing facility is hanging by a thread.
I have no idea what has happened to all the major parts and machine suppliers, Duly and Hansford, Bendix, Borg Warner, Pilkingtons Glass, Zenford, Small, A.C.I, McPhersons, and countless others, all appear to be dead.
Do you believe that all fourteen of those fifteen major companies were incapable? Shortly to be fifteen out of fifteen???????
We now have a relative newcomer, Toyota, with a plant in Altona, which will, in all possibility, be last man standing.
You think the Automotive industry is the only casualty? In the last few months Australia has also shut down the Shell refineries in Sydney and Geelong. Don't even worry about the long-dead fasteners, carpet, textile, shoe, clothing etc. industries - they are as numerous as prayer notes in the Wailing Wall.
It's time to ask the hard question, - is something wrong with Australia?
When I left Ford, in round figures it employed 5,000 at the Geelong site, 6,000 at the Broadmeadows site, 700 in the Sydney plant, and 300 in the Brisbane plant - 12,000 people. That is only the start. Then there are all the outside contractors directly dependent on the Company, we used to estimate this conservatively as about another 33% - 4,000. A straight 16,000 total. Then there is on top of that all the people who serviced those 16,000 - I have no idea how you calculate that, and it is a bit nebulous anyway as the 16,000 are still there, just at a lower level of economic importance.
It is blatantly obvious that our political system just does not work - I have been voicing this for the last thirty odd years. I have no idea what it should be changed to, the basis is sound, but the implementation leaves a lot to be desired. The political intelligence of the bulk of the Australian voting public is heading to absolute zero, and our politicians depend directly on that.
We continue to elect governments time after time on the basis of platforms of promises to be broken. Promises bordering on lies and deceit. We elect governments that have financial abilities that would make Bart Simpson appear genius material. Just take a quick look at Singapore - about 10% of our population, no natural resources, just about no industry, and yet they have a large network of underground trains running every three minutes everywhere - just on a scale basis alone we should have about ten such systems here in Oz - well at least one in all the capital cities - that leaves the cost of four of them to throw in a decent road system between the capitals. As soon as someone hears that they pop up with "yes! but look at their social welfare system !" my answer - exactly - look at it, almost non-existent from the government, the family is the social security system. I have seen our system, which is great in principle, abused right left and centre by those it is meant to protect, what should be a safety net is fast becoming an albatross around our necks. Come hell or high water that system has to be returned to the safety net it was intended to be. I don't know about now, but in Germany it was exactly a safety net and nothing else - if you were out of work you received a percentage of your wage for a period of time (three months? I forget exactly), and then it took a dive to an "emergency payment" which bought food and not much else.
All the government sponsored gifts for new houses, births, carbon tax offsets, GFC handouts etc. are not gifts - they are the currency with which our politicians appear best familiar, in plain English, bribes - bribes for the next election. Time to cut that nonsense - it should never have started.
What is happening in Australia is the failure to recognise the concept of adding value. Build something - make something - repair something - create something - move something - sell something useful - all add value and this is the only thing that creates a healthy economic structure. Add to that the essential services and you are still in business. Replace that lot with fancy accountants, counsellors, psychologists, dole bludgers, excessive bureaucrats, excessive government, teachers who only put in a fraction of the hours of real workers, and a myriad other similar other sinecure type jobs and you land right in the proverbial can, just like Oz.
Have you ever thought what happens in the next war? You think there won't be one? There have been humans fighting humans ever since one stuck his stone axe in somebody else's skull. You think that is going to miraculously stop? Go talk to the fairies. What do you think wins wars? Certainly not bureaucrats, counsellors and psychologists - not even servicemen alone. It is pure manufacturing muscle - whoever can build the most missiles, aircraft, bombs, guns etc. and have servicemen to deliver the intended result to the enemy. That is what wins wars. What are we going to build them with now? Do we now let our servicemen down as well?
Have a look back at what Ford Oz built for the last major war. Ford turned out thousands of those huge army transporters, hundreds of those huge landing barges, tracked bren-gun carriers, Ford blitzes, Bofors guns, and no doubt other things that I have either forgotten or never heard of. The Chrysler plant in Adelaide contributed a similar effort, largely in the aircraft sector. Who is going to repeat those efforts? Our recent engineering workforce had the ability to tool up a plant like Fords and make virtually anything at the drop of a hat. We made all sorts of odd things that nobody knows about - bits for the aircraft industry, tooling for carbon fibre parts for the French airbus, tooling for those huge Boeing tail spars, blocks for Scalzo engines, right down to microscopic gears for eye surgery instruments. We completed huge tooling contracts for our 'opposition' in the automotive industry. How wrong we were - the real opposition were those WE put in charge of our own country.
Then there are the unseen things - such as the flow of information and skills from the private sector to the Australian Government excuse for an armaments factory. Probably all but dead by now, but when I was active I attended many meetings at the armaments factory, Monash University, and other venues where engineers from private industry passed on manufacturing engineering related information. Much of it gleaned from first hand international experience, and much of it our own experience.
So that is just a small shot at how our politicians have betrayed us and set Oz up for a right royal shafting. A real enemy could not have done the job better.
You bet your sweet arse I'm sorry.

[Tote]

We could have a manufacturing industry in Australia but the tariff levels required to protect the industry would make everything else much more expensive. Every one wants to drive their shiny imported car and have the choice of vehicles that they have now but imagine how they would whinge if suddenly imported vehicles started at $50,000 and made the opposition falcadore look like good value at $35,000.
Like it or not protectionism is not the current economic trend. Those tariffs would also make all the stuff that we now take for granted like $200.00 chinese air compressors suddenly cost $500.00 and would make it viable for companies like COM-PAC to compete on cost with imports. That might be a nice thought but can you imagine how the punters would squeal if they were suddenly paying a 40% premium in the form of a sales tax?

Like it or not the world is changing and we are reaping the rewards of that change in both positive and negative ways.

One of the most challenging sights I have seen in my travels is the urban decay in main street USA where the town centre of many rural cities is now virtually abandoned due to the demise of the secondary industry that until the seventies sustained these cities. All replaced by big multi nationals and cheap imports.


an interesting link that documents the demise of some of these places.
Vanishing South Georgia Photographs by Brian Brown (http://vanishingsouthgeorgia.com/)

Regards,
Tote

[Pickles2]

Ford closing?....AN ABSOLUTE DISASTER.....yes, for the Ford workers involved...and also another nail in the coffin for the Aussie manufacturing industry.....and ya wanna know the PRIMARY reason?......because our COSTS are too high...to put a finer point on it.....our wages are too high.....our conditions/benefits/....ra ra ra whatever, are too high.....and they are proving to be unsustainable...and that is why we cannot compete with our Asian neighbours, who are now "killing" us.
And ya know who I blaime?.....Our Unions.
If ya wanna good argument.....I'm up for it.
Cheers, Pickles.

[incisor]

And ya know who I blaime?.....Our Unions.
If ya wanna good argument.....I'm up for it.
Cheers, Pickles.

so your not a blue collar worker then i take it...

you should have been around in the soap box days...

you don't get to bang on about it here these days, sadly.

[Pickles2]

so your not a blue collar worker then i take it...

you should have been around in the soap box days...

you don't get to bang on about it here these days, sadly.
Ha ha ha....No worries....I'm OLD mate...I've been around for a LLLOOONNNGGG time.
Like I said...I'm up for a good discussion.....anytime.
Cheers, Pickles.

[Mick_Marsh]

Lucky Ford people. I wish they'd stop whinging.
They will be in a job until 2016. When the doors finally close, the government are paying, what 60 million to get them a new job.

I was retrenched a month ago. I have received nothing from the government. No retraining. Not a thing.
In about a months time, the government will be wanting me to pay them money.

That said, I'm disgusted with government policy over the past couple of terms which has seen manufacturing go overseas. It started with Crazy Kev's Great Cash Give-away (which I got none) and was more than likely spent on an imported TV. Remember when the Australian made Thorn TV was considered the best in the world.

A few months ago, we hit an important point that we have never reached before. More than 50% of Australia's population were either employed by the government or receiving some form of welfare. I will be adding to this group soon (If they give me unemployment benefits).

It won't be long and we will be the welfare country.

Oh, and with all our manufacturing going overseas, our resource industry in decline and our farming industry going to the wall, all we will have left is finance and coffee shops. They're on borrowed time too.

I guess K-Mart and Big W will still be selling us that crappy underwear made in Bangladesh (if Bangladesh can keep their buildings up).

Actually, I'm all for protectionism.
If a tariff on imported goods means Australian manufacturing and primary industry survives, I'd say that is a good thing. We need to keep a manufacturing base. We need to keep a food production industry here (SPC).

Actually, there are other reasons why we can't compete with the rest of the world.
Do you remember quite a few years ago Australia was flooded with cheap Brazilian apples? I do. This dumping of inferior imported product sent more than a few apple producers to the wall. The funny thing is the Brazilian apple growers were using a cheap pesticide that caused a carcinogen to be contained in the apple. This pesticide is banned in Australia and we have to use expensive safe pesticides. Our fruit producers are also subject to greater regulation and safe working practices. This all adds expense.

If we have to compete on a playing field, the field must be level and the rules of the game must be the same. Unfortunately they're not on both counts.

Just a few of my thoughts on the subject. Thanks for posting it here hodgo.

[rangieman]

Ive said it before and ill say it again Ford (Australia) and Holden are a pimple on the yanks buts .

We design engineer & produce an sell less than a 100000 cars of either brand:eek:
The yanks can sell that in a month in the us . It cost,s a lot to design & engineer a car no matter what country , Australia is about one of 5 countrys in the world that can do so .
The yanks dont care about us and just want more profit ,:cool: thats why they have spent millions in China with plants and proving grounds that can test at least 60 cars a day
Dont worry the yanks will keep taking Julias and our money then just pack up and go home :nazilock:

[Mick_Marsh]

Ford closing?....AN ABSOLUTE DISASTER.....yes, for the Ford workers involved...and also another nail in the coffin for the Aussie manufacturing industry.....and ya wanna know the PRIMARY reason?......because our COSTS are too high...to put a finer point on it.....our wages are too high.....our conditions/benefits/....ra ra ra whatever, are too high.....and they are proving to be unsustainable...and that is why we cannot compete with our Asian neighbours, who are now "killing" us.
And ya know who I blaime?.....Our Unions.
If ya wanna good argument.....I'm up for it.
Cheers, Pickles.
Another thing to think of:
Our costs weren't too high when our dollar was worth US$0.60.
Remember, it is a world market.

[Mick_Marsh]

Dont worry the yanks will keep taking Julias and our money then just pack up and go home :nazilock:
As they have already done in Germany.

[Pickles2]

Ive said it before and ill say it again Ford (Australia) and Holden are a pimple on the yanks buts .

We design engineer & produce an sell less than a 100000 cars of either brand:eek:
The yanks can sell that in a month in the us . It cost,s a lot to design & engineer a car no matter what country , Australia is about one of 5 countrys in the world that can do so .
The yanks dont care about us and just want more profit ,:cool: thats why they have spent millions in China with plants and proving grounds that can test at least 60 cars a day
Dont worry the yanks will keep taking Julias and our money then just pack up and go home :nazilock:
It's got NOTHING to do with the yanks....NOTHING.
Think about our COSTS...COSTS of manufacturing...Holden GM said last week.....65% (SIXTY FIVE PER CENT) of manufacturing costs of manufacturing the Commodore was WAGES....that is the problem....they're too high....unless people regognize that....we will continue to go......downhill.
Ya want some examples...tradies making $160K P.A. (desalination plant)PLUS living away from home allowance...etc etc etc....and there's HEAPS more examples.
Building site...a guy opens the gates in the morning, cleans the toilets during the day, shuts the gates at night....$100K P.A.....and the last example was a few years ago.....then of course ya've got 18 day months, water on site..can't work....ah it's over 32C..can't work, parental leave, baby bonus, MASSIVE 1st home buyer's scheme...ra ra ra ra....who's gonna pay?......and ya wonder why we can't compete?
Cheers, Pickles.

[Eevo]

people dont want shiney imports

people want value for money

australian industry doesnt offer that.

shiny imports offer better value for money than anything made in australia.

protectionism just leads to deadweight loss. no competition, no incentive to innovate.

quote If the protectionist route is followed, newer, more efficient industries will have less scope to expand, and overall output and economic welfare will suffer. end-quote.

[Sparksdisco]

It's got NOTHING to do with the yanks....NOTHING.
Think about our COSTS...COSTS of manufacturing...Holden GM said last week.....65% (SIXTY FIVE PER CENT) of manufacturing costs of manufacturing the Commodore was WAGES....that is the problem....they're too high....unless people regognize that....we will continue to go......downhill.
Ya want some examples...tradies making $160K P.A. (desalination plant)PLUS living away from home allowance...etc etc etc....and there's HEAPS more examples.
Building site...a guy opens the gates in the morning, cleans the toilets during the day, shuts the gates at night....$100K P.A.....and the last example was a few years ago.....then of course ya've got 18 day months, water on site..can't work....ah it's over 32C..can't work, parental leave, baby bonus, MASSIVE 1st home buyer's scheme...ra ra ra ra....who's gonna pay?......and ya wonder why we can't compete?
Cheers, Pickles.


What line of work are you in? or did before retirenment?

[incisor]

quote If the protectionist route is followed, newer, more efficient industries will have less scope to expand, and overall output and economic welfare will suffer. end-quote.

that routes working really well at the moment, whats it take for the penny to drop?

[Pickles2]

Hello sparksdisco.
I worked in a Bank for 39 years before I retired. Nothing special, just middle management....no big income or anything like that...just a worker, and I was a Union Member for the whole time.
Talking about wages/costs etc, being an ex-Banker, I'm used to people having a go at me about "Huge Bank Profits"etc etc......but they're not "Huge" really...it's just that the banks are very large organizations, so their "Profit" is, in number/dollar terms, are also large, but their return on equity is the same as any other successful business.
However, one aspect of Banks that I do find obscene, is the "Salary" of the C.E.O's...NO-ONE is worth $15M P/A.
Cheers, Pickles.

[mikehzz]

The trouble with this thread is that everyone is correct in what they are saying. Costs ARE too high, protectionism can lead to problems, losing manufacturing capability could lead to disaster. I can't see an easy solution to a very complex problem. Take away workers rights and benefits? Not likely, but it's happening by proxy anyway. We are using worker ants in places like China to replace our own workers who cost too much. A mate is getting a computer programming job done for his business. It's 28 days work full on and will cost him $800 all up in China. It would nearly cost him $800 a day here. Nothing will stabilise until we are all earning comparable wages and benefits. Another thing, this super for retirement thing doesn't seem logical. We can't have a very significant portion of the population sitting on a beach earning investment income. Someone has to be doing the work. Investment income is an illusion if there aren't a heap of worker ants slaving away to support it.

[rangieman]

It's got NOTHING to do with the yanks....NOTHING.
Think about our COSTS...COSTS of manufacturing...Holden GM said last week.....65% (SIXTY FIVE PER CENT) of manufacturing costs of manufacturing the Commodore was WAGES....that is the problem....they're too high....unless people regognize that....we will continue to go......downhill.
Ya want some examples...tradies making $160K P.A. (desalination plant)PLUS living away from home allowance...etc etc etc....and there's HEAPS more examples.
Building site...a guy opens the gates in the morning, cleans the toilets during the day, shuts the gates at night....$100K P.A.....and the last example was a few years ago.....then of course ya've got 18 day months, water on site..can't work....ah it's over 32C..can't work, parental leave, baby bonus, MASSIVE 1st home buyer's scheme...ra ra ra ra....who's gonna pay?......and ya wonder why we can't compete?
Cheers, Pickles.
Well i think im a good judge with first hand experience on the matter after being made redundant (voluntary)by one of these American owned companys after 19 years service .
The writing is on the wall The yanks dont like our ability to design engineer and manufacture :mad:

[Pickles2]

Well i think im a good judge with first hand experience on the matter after being made redundant (voluntary)by one of these American owned companys after 19 years service .
The writing is on the wall The yanks dont like our ability to design engineer and manufacture :mad:
That is NOT good mate, & I am sorry to hear it. The same sort of thing happened whilst I was in the Bank to some of my long standing friends & Co-Workers...luckily, I "survived".
But really, I reckon, if you look at what's happening in Aus, I don't think it's the Yanks who are the problem.....all of our "industry" has gone to the likes of China, South Korea, Taiwan, & now Thailand & India are entering the picture. It's not good at all, and I do not have the answers, but Mikehzz makes some very good points
Cheers, Pickles.

[incisor]

However, one aspect of Banks that I do find obscene, is the "Salary" of the C.E.O's...NO-ONE is worth $15M P/A.
Cheers, Pickles.

and that is only the start of it.

the proportion of profits going to middle and upper management has grown unchecked and out of all proportion to the rest to the point that it makes it nonviable to keep manufacturing here.

shareholders only seem to be waking up to it now

it isnt just the unions that have been greedy.

[Pickles2]

and that is only the start of it.

the proportion of profits going to middle and upper management has grown unchecked and out of all proportion to the rest to the point that it makes it nonviable to keep manufacturing here.

shareholders only seem to be waking up to it now

it isnt just the unions that have been greedy.
I would have to disagree with that.....having worked in a bank, for so long, I started in 1961, I know a fair bit (a bit more than I know about Landrovers!) about Bank "salaries' & the like. Salaries of "rank & file" are similar to what is available in other areas of the finance sector, manufacturing companies etc, and it is not the salaries of the higher ranked (CEO, Senior Managers etc) that comprise most of the wages cost....it is the tens of thousands of "ordinary workers", like I was.
Shareholders?....Not too many of them would be unhappy....the Dividend yield of Bank Shares are amongst the best!
Cheers, Pickles.

[incisor]

I would have to disagree with that.....

how did i know that was coming :D

the figures are out there for all to see, if i had time i would point you to them but alas today it aint going to happen. maybe tomorrow...

shocked me when i read it i have to say as i didnt realise just how much the % had increased.

[Mick_Marsh]

It's got NOTHING to do with the yanks....NOTHING.
Think about our COSTS...COSTS of manufacturing...Holden GM said last week.....65% (SIXTY FIVE PER CENT) of manufacturing costs of manufacturing the Commodore was WAGES....that is the problem....they're too high....unless people regognize that....we will continue to go......downhill.
Ya want some examples...tradies making $160K P.A. (desalination plant)PLUS living away from home allowance...etc etc etc....and there's HEAPS more examples.
Building site...a guy opens the gates in the morning, cleans the toilets during the day, shuts the gates at night....$100K P.A.....and the last example was a few years ago.....then of course ya've got 18 day months, water on site..can't work....ah it's over 32C..can't work, parental leave, baby bonus, MASSIVE 1st home buyer's scheme...ra ra ra ra....who's gonna pay?......and ya wonder why we can't compete?
Cheers, Pickles.
The desal plant is not a good example. There are very few projects like that about.
Government funded gravy train.

You are right about high wages when you quote figures as you have done.
However, you should also be looking at history, comparison and context.
We live in a country which has a very high if not the highest cost of living in the world. Our utilities (gas, electricity water, council rates and telephone/internet) are amongst the most expensive in the world. This drives up the costs of other things such as food and anything manufactured in Australia When you couple this with the high AU$, that drives up the cost of exports and drives down the price of imports.
Comparing wages in AU$ to wages in US$ is not a fair comparison. If you compared AU houses to US houses, you'd probably find Australian houses are ten times more expensive than US houses. A friend is in constant contact with people in the US. They constantly compare prices. A good example in vending machine drinks. I have been noting the cost of a can of Coke from vending machines in Victoria. They are usually around the $4 mark. In the US, 80c.

Another thing that should be considered is supply and demand. If there is short supply of skills and demand is high, that drives wages up. Once the wages are up and demand drops, people are retrenched.
This has happened to me. For the past five or six years I have been in a job that has been paying me about three times what my job overseas would pay. (Bear in mind I was working for a multinational company in the global market competing with US, Europe and Asia.) What kept us competitive was we worked so much smarter than overseas companies. When the AU$ went up, we ceased to represent value for money and available projects dried up.

The problem is too complex just to blame high wages and unions. You also have to blame government policy, the money changers (i.e. stock market and banks), and numerous other parties that have their snout in the trough.

[Mick_Marsh]

A mate is getting a computer programming job done for his business. It's 28 days work full on and will cost him $800 all up in China. It would nearly cost him $800 a day here.
And what you will find is the person in Australia doing the work is on a contract for $25p/h inclusive of super.
The other $75p/h will be going to the lower, middle and upper management of the company he is contracted to, the lower, middle and upper management of the company they are contracted to and the lower, middle and upper management of the company your mate got the quote from.
Don't believe me? Take a closer look at how the NBN project is being handled.

[Sparksdisco]

Hello sparksdisco.
I worked in a Bank for 39 years before I retired. Nothing special, just middle management....no big income or anything like that...just a worker, and I was a Union Member for the whole time.
Talking about wages/costs etc, being an ex-Banker, I'm used to people having a go at me about "Huge Bank Profits"etc etc......but they're not "Huge" really...it's just that the banks are very large organizations, so their "Profit" is, in number/dollar terms, are also large, but their return on equity is the same as any other successful business.
However, one aspect of Banks that I do find obscene, is the "Salary" of the C.E.O's...NO-ONE is worth $15M P/A.
Cheers, Pickles.

I do empathize about people saying about the company you work for having huge profits so you should be on huge wages.

I work for the big mining company up north, and granted that i earn good wages.

However the sacrifices that i make to earn these high wages have a greater impact on my life than you think.

I'm not a FIFO worker that comes in makes the big money and flies back to there home that they grew up in. They have major issues also. I live in the town that has next to no facilities, A large issue of (I will try to be politically correct) Aboriginal issues, with 2 small children that see antisocial behavior daily and doing all of this while i work a 12 rotating shift roster with no support from family.

The cost of living up here is very expensive and the drain on resources with FIFO workers is criminal.

the council has it's own adgender when it comes to releasing land and making it more affordable to live here.

Government don't spent the money in the towns that make the economy run yet spent it's money in the city's and on keeping the unemployed.

The town I live in should be a thriving city but is being crippled because of lack of vision and the willingness to build public infrastructure.

I daily weigh up weather it's worth staying or going back home to Victoria.

I am a tradesman and I earn good money if i was on the wage I am on back in Victoria

But the sacrifices that i make would leave me at about the same in the terms of living.

I'ts easy to sit back in the city and look at me and say I must be rich but it's not as simple as that.

i am drifting off subject at the moment as i have just done a 12 hour night shift and have come home to keep an eye on my 2 little ones while the wife is sitting at the doctors to sort out her ear infection. hopefully it's been a quiet night in terms of drunks fighting each other so the line should be shorter.

It's not a easy thing to sort out the social and economic welfare of Australia

My 2 cent's anyway

Cheers

[mikehzz]

Mate, I spent 10 years working as a contract computer programmer on around $60-100 and hour, great money, overpaid to hell in my opinion but I wasn't going to knock it back. At one stage a company that sub contracted me was charging the client around $200 an hour. It was year 2K time so programmers were scarce. That $775 you quoted is per day not per hour by the way.

[Pickles2]

sparksdisco...Good post mate.
I have never done that sort of work, but a friend of mine has a son whose "in the mines" looking after big machinery. Good money, but pretty tough conditions.....but the young man is not silly.....he's putting the money away....and he's actually met a nice young lady up there.
My "working" conditions were nothing like yours of course, but lots of people think Bankers & the like just work 9-5........NOT TRUE...that is, if ya wanna get on. For the last period of my working life, I was in at work before 7.00AM, working all sorts of hours.....40 hrs a week would have been great, but unforunately, no way!
Cheers, Pickles.

[101RRS]

Overall - Australian Industry has been slow to restructure in response to globalisation. Low ago we did start to move out of the secondary sector into the tertiary sector where our real strengths lie but a few industies like the car industry which really have never been profitable in Aust have survived with government assistance but really had to come to an end sooner or later.

Countries should only be in industries where they have a competitive advantage - for the second and third worlds with is labour intensive industry - for the first world it is move out of labour intensive manufacturing into the service and technology industries or manufacturing where technology not humans make the products - this is where Australia is now but we still need to get rid of a couple of dinosaurs like the car industry. Niches however are an exception.

Japan is the classic example of the life cycle of a typical modern economy.

After the war it was a labour based economy making crap goods - as expertise grew it moved to making better but cheaper goods and salaries began to grow. It then became an innovator and began to make better quality goods that started to get a quality reputation but prices began to escalate, fast forward to now where the actual Japanese economy is based very much in the tertiary sector - yes they still produce many secondaty sector goods but because of costs of production many of these manufactured products are made off shore as they are too expensive to make them in Japan.

Have you noticed that South Korea is a couple of decades behind Japan - Korea is now starting to make their cars offshore - some in Eastern Europe. Countries like Malaysia, China and India started this process much later but are progressing along the same timeline.

Aust is no different - once we could support mainstream manufacturing but can no longer do so - when we have tariffs the quality of our goods was crap - competition when they were removed fixed that but set us up to be technology innovators not makers of things. While I do not support tarrifs on imported goods I do believe in a level playing field and do support tariffs on imported goods that have been subsidised or are being dumped in Aust.

We need to move on - stop sinking Govt money into these industries and put this money into innovation.

And stop selling our dirt at bargain basement prices and do at least one level of value adding to primary/mining industry goods we sell. Also stop growing things that are not suited to our climate and are resource intensive and switch to things less traditional and more suited to our country.

As the world becomes more globalised we need to become more global in our thinking and in our industries.

Garry

[Sparksdisco]

And stop selling our dirt at bargain basement prices and do at least one level of value adding to primary/mining industry goods we sell.

Garry

Good Idea but that horse has long bolted.

Port Hedland had a HBI plant (hot-briquetted iron) but lack of knowledge and experience caused a lot of deaths and it shutdown. and look at our steel industry

there should be a lot of local players in the ore business not 1 or 2 company's funded by overseas company's.

We should also stop overseas buying our farming land as i se the next thing in great demand will be food for Asian countries

[jddisco200tdi]

Its not just our manufacturing sector thats disappearing offshore.

The global engineering company I work have just won a large job in the middle east to design roads and bridge infrastucture. The bosses tell me that as we had to cut our price so much to win the job its necessary for our Manila office to do a larger percentage of the work than they otherwise would have.
So all the designers we have recently retrenched will have to stay on the dole queue.
As we train our overseas staff we are actually doing ourselves out of a job.

My wife unfortunately works in a similar field and she has been out of work for 5 months now with little prospects of getting a jog in engineering. We are lucking in having one wage for the timebeing though.

I also have some friends (husband/wife)who run an ebay business. They outsource all the computing/graphics work to india or Manila. From what they have told me, it would not be worth doing it if they used local labour.

John D - Defender 110 2.4

[Pickles2]

Gary...it is a difficult & complex problem no doubt.
So, my solution is, if I was able to drive your V12 E Type, I wouldn't have to think about it so much!!
Lovely car, lovely engine...would you care to speak about its history etc...any pics?
I LOVE "big" engines...our other car is a C63.
Cheers, Pickles.

[101RRS]

Lovely car, lovely engine...would you care to speak about its history etc...any pics?


When I get around to it I will add something in this thread http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members-rides/176059-my-babies-twins-they.html so as not to divert attention away from the Australian Industry Structure and its slowness to adapt to changes in the world and its squealing as a result.

[Eevo]

holden called a staff meeting today, 130pm, with all staff.

closing?

[sheerluck]

holden called a staff meeting today, 130pm, with all staff.

closing?

There was a news article a couple of days ago that Holden were going to try to force a pay cut through to attempt to remain viable. Perhaps they didn't get any takers?

[101RRS]

I watched the TV program Mega Factories last night. The series covers factories that build cars, planes, tractors, motor homes etc.

On the car factory episodes they have covered car makes such as Audi, BMW, Rolls, Lamborghini and others - last night it was the Chrysler Challenger and a couple of other models. Though a US manufacturer the 5.7 and 6.1 engines are made in Mexico and the cars in Canada - not actually made in the US.

I assume the building practices in the factory would be similar to those used in the Aussie Holden and Ford factories - if so I can see why costs would be high. Despite having robots doing much of the work an awful lot is still being done by hand - manual labour $$$$$$. Compared to the Audi and BMW factories the Chrysler factory had a much more manual input. Just an example is the panels in the Chrysler factory are either put on the car by hand (they do not trust machines) or the panels are put on the robot by hand. At other car factories this is all done by robots.

Now i am making an assumption that our factories are similar to the Chrysler one and if so then really we need to update equipment and automate as much as possible to minimise manual labour input and send offshore any heavy labour input components.

The difference between the Chrysler factory and the Audi and US BMW factories was like chalk and cheese.

Garry

[Chucaro]

Carmaker Holden is in discussions with staff and unions about cutting costs at its South Australian plant.
(http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-06-18/holden-in-cost-saving-talks-with-south-australian-staff/4762928)
In a statement, the company says it plans to make "labour-related cost reductions and productivity improvements" at the Elizabeth site.

I would suggest GM to stop importing the Opel as well if they care for the OZ plants :angel:

[Pickles2]

There was a news article a couple of days ago that Holden were going to try to force a pay cut through to attempt to remain viable. Perhaps they didn't get any takers?

Maybe they ought to....Better to have a job, than no job....I reckon the Ford guys, & many other workers the victims of our manufacturing going overseas, would probably agree.
I'm of the opinion that wages & conditions in Aus are totally unsustainable,....look, we've got it good, I know that,...NO argument from me at all.....except that IMHO, these conditions are unsustainable.
I've heard it said that with an aging population, the pension, at its current level, will also be unsustainable?
Cheers, Pickles.

[Chucaro]

It will be extremely hard to reduce personal incomes without reducing the cost of living, housing, etc.
Some countries that have done well after the war in South America like Uruguay and Argentina have try to reduce wages without reducing cost of living and within few years the poverty increased considerable together with social problems.
IMHO the only way is to have smart government and implement polices that are good to the country even if they are not popular with the international community.
At the very least we need to have the same protectionism that is in place in Europe and USA.
As an example if France and USA can protect their primary industry with tariffs and subsidies we should be able to do it as well.
Now the NSW is going to sell the Newcastle port, the biggest coal port in the world! Most probable the Arabs are going to get it like that majority of the ports in USA.
We never learn and keep selling the jewelry :mad:

[Mick_Marsh]

They brought in a ten percent pay cut in my industry three or four years ago.
Didn't help.

I've heard it said that with an aging population, the pension, at its current level, will also be unsustainable?
Old news. That's one of the reasons why they brought in the Superannuation Guarantee back in, when was it, 1992..

[Mick_Marsh]

IMHO the only way is to have smart government and implement polices that are good to the country even if they are not popular with the international community.
Hear, hear . Chucaro for PM

At the very least we need to have the same protectionism that is in place in Europe and USA.
Vote 1. The Chucaro Party.

Now the NSW is going to sell the Newcastle port, the biggest coal port in the world!
We never learn and keep selling the jewelry :mad:
You really should be leading our country.
Without a doubt, you'd be better than any of the other jokers.