Important BB6 wheel info

[NomadicD3]

Hi All,
Just thought I’d post a quick update for those of us who have purchased the BB6 wheels from performance wheels. I recently cracked another 2 wheels on the trip through the high country in Vic. One front right and the other rear left. Upon discovering these cracks I contacted Performance wheels in South Australia and after very little discussion the team there decided to replace all six wheels without any cost to me, including refitting and balancing all the tyres. They conceded that the original design did have a few issues with cracking and have since redesigned the wheel to now be able to utilize the original land rover wheel nuts. So I would strongly recommend that anyone who is doing offroad work with the original BB6 wheels regularly check the wheels for cracks and in the event of finding any contact the supplier ASAP.
Now I haven’t really been in touch with the forum over the last year so if the information about redesigned BB6 wheels has already been posted I apologise
Regards
Brian
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/d3-d4-rrs/44909d1332412720-few-aftermarket-cautions-img_0190.jpg

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/d3-d4-rrs/61867d1371461684-important-bb6-wheel-info-dsc01071.jpg

[TerryO]

Thanks for reminding about this Brian,

Just spoke to the owner of Performance Wheels re my cracked BB6 rim and he has undertaken to replace all five BB6 rims with the new spec LR BB6 17" rims as soon as I send him my postal address.

It is rare now a days that anyone stands by their product like this Australian company does and just gives another reason for buying an Australian made product when you can.

Thank you Performance Wheels.

[Fatso]

I put a notice up about 3 weeks ago re BB6 wheels in that i nearly got the wrong one,s given to me from the Perth agency , i asked for 17inch wheels to fit RRS and by accident i found out about the newer wheels that utilise the your own wheels nuts etc , these have a 42mm off set as oposed to 38mm o/set for the older wheels and wheel nuts which they were going to sell me .

It has been said that that the tapered wheel nuts as supplied on the older BB6 wheels cause the cracks but looking at your photo i cant see how ?,
have you any idea how the cracks were developed . Hope the new ones dont go the same way .

[TerryO]

The owner of Performance Wheels told me they had done extensive testing once they became aware of possible issues. What they found was if the wheel nuts weren't tightened up to at least the minimum correct settings then under hard off road driving the wheels could flex and cracks could happen.

They also have done extensive testing with the wheel nuts tightened correctly and had no failures.

Any way they have done the correct thing and are making good which is very rare these days to say the least.

Hats off to Performance Wheels.

[NomadicD3]

HI Terry,
Yep had the same conversation last year with the owner of performance wheels when I cracked the first wheel and since then I've been very dilligent in checking the torque setting myself every week or so when I'm travelling, as yet none have ever been even slightly loose.
As to the reason behind the cracking??? Hmm this time it was the rocky hill climb up mount Pinnibar travelling from Tom Goggins. Last time was most likely whilst driving around Barrington tops NP. Common denominators
- steep rocky country
-cold weather
- water crossings
I'm no automotive engineers but people can draw their own conclusions.
Regardless as you have said Terry, performance wheels have been absolutely brilliant to deal with and I would gladly continue dealing with the only australian company still making wheels....

P.S.-Terry I've been running the AT3's you recommended last year for 25000k's now and they have been excellent. Thanks for the good advice:clap2::BigThumb:

[connock]

Hi All,
Just thought I’d post a quick update for those of us who have purchased the BB6 wheels from performance wheels. I recently cracked another 2 wheels on the trip through the high country in Vic. One front right and the other rear left. Upon discovering these cracks I contacted Performance wheels in South Australia and after very little discussion the team there decided to replace all six wheels without any cost to me, including refitting and balancing all the tyres. They conceded that the original design did have a few issues with cracking and have since redesigned the wheel to now be able to utilize the original land rover wheel nuts. So I would strongly recommend that anyone who is doing offroad work with the original BB6 wheels regularly check the wheels for cracks and in the event of finding any contact the supplier ASAP.
Now I haven’t really been in touch with the forum over the last year so if the information about redesigned BB6 wheels has already been posted I apologise
Regards
Brian

The photo you have put up shows the original design, there was another one after this and now the new ones that take the LR nuts.
Yes there is something to be said for buying Australian and its all good.

connock

[101RRS]

The owner of Performance Wheels told me they had done extensive testing once they became aware of possible issues. What they found was if the wheel nuts weren't tightened up to at least the minimum correct settings then under hard off road driving the wheels could flex and cracks could happen.

They also have done extensive testing with the wheel nuts tightened correctly and had no failures.



That shows that the wheels are marginal for a D3 and have little in the way of a safety factor.

Garry

[connock]

That shows that the wheels are marginal for a D3 and have little in the way of a safety factor.

Garry

May be but at least they are addressing the issue and hopefully have fixed the problem. I had a mag break on me years ago and got no where, they were from off shore. These are (were) cracking not breaking and they are replacing a full set not just the knackered one. (as they should).

connock

[jonesfam]

Ummm, have been away working up on the Cape for a few weeks, came home & thought that the rear right wheel (BB6) had a heap of cobb web wrapped around the spokes. The car was filthy (SWMBO doesn't wash cars) so decided to give her a wash.
Well, it wasn't cobb web around the wheel spokes, 2 of the spokes were cracked right through. NOT HAPPY!
I replaced with the spare & only 1 wheel seems to have been effected.
I intend to get onto Performance Wheels this week to see what they have to say but I'm pretty annoyed because SWMBO has been driving around on a cracked rim with 5 kids for who knows how long through the Atherton Tablelands winding, hilly roads.
BTW the car has done some long rough gravel road runs & some hard mud work but no real off road, just normal Western QLD roads under dry & wet conditions.
Jonesfam

[BSM]

2 of the spokes were cracked right through. NOT HAPPY!

How old are the wheels? I gather from the earlier posts there's been some new designs to address problems. I've got a new set and am wondering If these problems are in store for me too.

[TerryO]

I rang Performance Wheels head office in SA a couple of months ago regarding cracked spokes on one of my BB6 wheels. Mine were the first model BB6 rim.

The owner of the Company was very reasonable to talk too and a week later five new updated BB6's arrived by courier.

[jonesfam]

BSM
The wheels are about 18 months to 2 years old, I can not find the receipt, but have only been on the car 12 months because it took awhile to get tyres.
Jonesfam

[TerryO]

The latest version of BB6's now actually use D3/4 wheel nuts. If your wheels don't use the standard Disco wheel nuts then they are the previous version.

Which hopefully means if you get the new version provided under warranty then I for one hope the issues with cracking will cease.

[BSM]

five new updated BB6's arrived by courier.

Did Performance provide any info on required torque on the wheel nuts? My BB6s are new and take the OEM wheel nut. But I didn't fit them and have no idea if the wheel nuts are tightened correctly - I wouldn't want cracking to arise because they're too loose or too tight.

[Fatso]

Did Performance provide any info on required torque on the wheel nuts? My BB6s are new and take the OEM wheel nut. But I didn't fit them and have no idea if the wheel nuts are tightened correctly - I wouldn't want cracking to arise because they're too loose or too tight.

I have had my new BB6 17 Inch wheels fitted now for 2 months and tightened to 140 NM with my OEM wheel nuts as per my RRS handbook , weekly check to start and no probs found whith them yet .

[Duck's Guts]

Bugger! Just checked over my BB6's after returning from Birdsville & Innamincka, and I've found cracks! 2x rims with cracks in only one spoke (one with a crack that is all the way through!) + 2x rim with cracks across 3 spokes!
Looks like I need to talk to Performance Wheels about this ASAP!

[NomadicD3]

Hey Ducks guts,
Well at least you got home safe and I hope you enjoyed your trip. As for the wheels I'm very confident that you will be able to get all of them replaced at no cost to you. The new wheels, as I'm sure you are aware, will need your original LR wheel nuts but if you had lock nuts on your LR original wheels they won't fit. The new {relatively speaking} wheel design has been excellent. Mine have seen some extensive miles and a lot of off road work and have no sign of cracking and have never come loose.
regards
Brian

[BSM]

I have had the BB6 17" wheels on mine since March '13. So I suppose they are the 'new' ones. I've travelled about 20,000kms on them including in the Vic High Country and Flinders Ranges and towed a camper trailer several thousand kms. I just went and inspected the rims - no sign of cracking at all.

[Duck's Guts]

Mine are the original BB6's. They now have 102,000 kms & 4 years on them!

[Duck's Guts]

Just spoke to Performance Wheels.
After a short discussion, they very nicely offered to replace all 5 of the BB6's with the new design that uses the OEM nuts. Including courier delivery from SA to NSW.
Only negative is that they will be at least two weeks away as they need to be manufactured.

Thanks Performance Wheels... excellent aftersales services and standing behind your product!
That is one reason to Buy Australian! Oi oi oi!

[TerryO]

Good to hear that Performance Wheels are still doing the right thing. my replacement BB6's have taken a flogging and show no signs of cracking.

[Meken]

Just spoke to Performance Wheels.
After a short discussion, they very nicely offered to replace all 5 of the BB6's with the new design that uses the OEM nuts. Including courier delivery from SA to NSW.
Only negative is that they will be at least two weeks away as they need to be manufactured.

Thanks Performance Wheels... excellent aftersales services and standing behind your product!
That is one reason to Buy Australian! Oi oi oi!


That's fantastic service

[BSM]

I'm preaparing A big trip to the Kimberly from Melbourne in a few months, and was reminded by a fellow LROCV member about the cracking issues that historically have occurred on the Performance rims.

I've been checking the rims regularly for the presence of cracks, but seen nothing. However the checking has always been on the outside of the rims.

Last weekend I decided to remove the spare, which was previously a running wheel and take a look behind.

I was a bit shocked to see fine hairline cracks in the area where the spokes meet the boss.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=92648&stc=1&d=1428663013

I pulled two other wheels off the car and took a look behind those also. They both showed the same hairline cracks forming near the junction of the boss and the spokes. It seems to me likely that that the cracking begins on the back side of the spokes and works it way to the outside over time. When you see it on the outside, it's pretty much ready to fail.

These BB6 wheels were bought new in March 2013, and have travelled about 30,000 km mostly on bitumen, but also a reasonable amount of off-road. However they have not been treated harshly.

Seeing these cracks forming in these wheels has made me lose confidence in these for the upcoming trip. I won't be running on BB6 wheels to the Kimberlies, and have already bought the replacement set.

If you have BB6 wheels it would be worth your while taking a few wheels off and looking at the spokes from behind.

[ADMIRAL]

Are they the new design wheel with the fullsize OEM wheel nuts ?

[Fatso]

His were purchased in March 2013 , not sure but I think these would have been before the new wheel using the OEM wheel nuts were available .
Be a bit of let down if these were the new type .


Just had a look at my paper work and my new type using the OEM wheel nut were purchased in May 2013 , so will be interesting to see what BSM wheels are . Glad I kept my 19 inch rims now .

[BSM]

I'm pretty sure these were the new design. They certainly use the OEM wheel nuts, and ifrom memory its over 9.5 turns on the nut. I looked at all of this at the time.

[Fatso]

I'm pretty sure these were the new design. They certainly use the OEM wheel nuts, and ifrom memory its over 9.5 turns on the nut. I looked at all of this at the time.



If they used the LR oem nuts and not the old nuts as supplied from BBS then they will be the new design , Should be 42mm off set
I think the before wheels used countersunk w/nuts that came with the wheels and these were subject to cracking


Ah well better check mine out , seems to have a bad decision to go to these .

[BSM]

Yep 42mm offset.

I agree. A real disappointment.

[NomadicD3]

Hi All,
Sadly performance wheels as a company closed down last year, so no more free replacements:(....

[Fatso]

Yes no comeback now , even if I don't find any cracks I will still change them out .


Will check mine tomorrow , looks like a total loss situation , at least it has been discovered before anything bad has happened .


Wonder how all the people with these wheels on their landies can be informed of a potential problem , lets hope the AULRO grapevine works here .


Thanks 4 the Heads up BSM .

[Fatso]

Had a look at all 4 wheels using my big dentist mirror with a LED on it , I could see all spokes clearly from behind and could not see any cracks . As
My wheels are painted black and there is a bit paint on the back so I pulled a front wheel off and wire brushed the area concerned but did not find any cracks using a magnifying glass anywhere on the wheel . As I have only done approx 20K mostly tar so I will keep an eye on it for now .

[BSM]

That's good news.

[swarover]

Hi All,

This thread did fill me with a degree of dread... Ive had my 5 since March 2011, they are the older tapered wheel nut type. Yesterday I took the 4 off the hubs, and checked them and the spare carefully. Very pleased to report all AOK.

The wheels have covered the order of 170,000 km (car done 336,500 km - and yes - timing belt service due and booked for Thursday) on all sorts of roads and tracks, although mostly bitumen; had three sets of tyres, currently General Grabber AT 265/65/17. Do the wheel nuts up to 140nm. Touching all the wood in reach, mine are fine.

Cheers,

[Fatso]

Hi All,

This thread did fill me with a degree of dread... Ive had my 5 since March 2011, they are the older tapered wheel nut type. Yesterday I took the 4 off the hubs, and checked them and the spare carefully. Very pleased to report all AOK.

The wheels have covered the order of 170,000 km (car done 336,500 km - and yes - timing belt service due and booked for Thursday) on all sorts of roads and tracks, although mostly bitumen; had three sets of tyres, currently General Grabber AT 265/65/17. Do the wheel nuts up to 140nm. Touching all the wood in reach, mine are fine.

Cheers,


Pretty easy to keep a check using a largish dentist mirror and torch laying alongside the wheel you can see the area at the back of the wheel clearly and by angling the torch beam across the wheel spoke you can pick anything out of the ordinary qui t clearly , saves pulling the wheel off . You cant the part of the wheel where the brake caliper is , I just used a bit of white marker on the wheel and just moved car until that part of wheel was clear of caliper , easy peasy .

[jonesfam]

When my BB6 wheels cracked it was only the back ones, both sides.
These were replaced & no further problems.
Jonesfam

[NomadicD3]

HI All,
Seems here we go again.
I recently did antoher Vic. high country trip and before I left I studiously checked all the wheels , given the history it's something I do regularly, and found no cracks NB: these are the final version of the BB6 wheels. Whilst I was in the high country I found a rear with one crack. Today, after a very through inspection, I have found that all 4 wheels on the car have a least one minor crack I them. I must confess that the wheel I found a crack in whilst I was in Vic. was on the rear so I opted to leave it for the return journey home, it has propagated to 2 cracks similar to the one in the photo. In short I had 9 of the last version of the BB6 and I have now cracked 6 { one was replaced before the company closed}
SSoooooo... anyone got some steel 17's that want to sell LOL
regards
Brian

[jonesy63]

Or go for the BMW X5 17" wheels... ;)

[Graeme]

I'll second the X5 rims, and not just because I have a set with part-worn 245/70 Duratracs looking for a home. However the X5 rims need about $60 spent on special long shank nuts which I no longer have for my rims. Too far from Perth though.

[NomadicD3]

Thanks guys,not a bad idea but I understand that the centre hole is a different size isn't?
Thanks Graeme, I didn't know about the different nuts required.
As you may well understand I now have a few reservations about any alloy wheels for offroad use.

[Graeme]

X5 rims have the same size centering hole and the rims are strong. The shanks on the special nuts fit inside the holes to provide the necessary number of threads for the short LR studs.

[NomadicD3]

Does anyone have or know what steel wheels fit the D3 in a 17X8 with the correct speed and load rating and a legal offset?

[jonesy63]

I don't think there is a legal steel wheel to suit - the offset is the problem, at 35mm. If that offset is legal in WA, I'm pretty sure King Wheels do a 17x8" load rated wheel to suit.Dynamic only did 17x7" when I last looked.

[morpheus]

I thought you could still get 17x8 from Dynamic, with a 30p offset. http://www.dynamictyres.com.au/images/content/Dynamic%20Wheels%20fitment%20chart.pdf

From Dynamic's website.

[NomadicD3]

Correct Morpheus, Dynamic final got back to me by phone. They do a 17X8 "Dynamic D" wheel with a -25 offset. Requires a proper steel wheel nut, yet to look into that. Would -30 be legal in Victoria?

[morpheus]

Good news then! No idea about whether they are legal in Victoria sorry. Now that I'm back in SA I'm still coming to terms with the regs here.. To be honest I don't even know if 17x8 with a 30 offset is legal here - I hope it is because that's what I was looking to go to with a much wider choice of tyres.

[NomadicD3]

Now I'm confused, when I spoke to the Dynamic guy on the phone he said it was a -25 for the dynamic D and now is saying 25p. These are not the same offset are they? sure 25p is plus25???

All good Morpheus someone will know if it's legal in Vic. I've corrcted my previous post with the wrong offset in it. My bad.....:p:p

Interestingly not many people selling wheels know the load ratings for the wheels they sell(:

[gghaggis]

Victoria should be the same as WA, so +41 would be the limit.

Cheers

Gordon

[TerryO]

Hi Brian,

I know a bloke that has 17" King steel rims on his D3, he has done plenty of rough miles on them and they are now way out of round, almost looks like a Fred Flintsone car when driving slowly, funny thing is he can't tell they are out of round when driving it.
Regarding Dynamic steel rims have seen some of them on a D3 with the centres torn out and cracked after repeated heavy off road use, so steel rims aren't always the answer either.

As you know I suffered a crack in a early version of the BB6's but the last version they made to fit LR nuts have been good, I have bashed and smashed them off road plenty of times and not had any cracks.

Just wondering, what size tyres are you using and brand and what tyre pressures do you run them at? If I remember right most of your cracks have occurred in the Victorian high country, is that correct?

Talk soon.

[Fatso]

I have had the new type 17 BB6 wheels on my RRS since 2013 and not a problem no cracks , I do a visual check every now and then .


I travel on all types of roads when towing my camper trailer around the southwest and northwest of WA , I tend to leave the tyre pressure at recommended settings and take it reasonably steady on the rougher roads .
So I cant work out why some crack and some don't but happy with mine .

[NomadicD3]

Hi Terry,
That's rather observant of you mate :D, yes you are absolutely correct. Both version 2 and 3 have cracked after Vic high country trip. So my current, completely unsubstantiated, working theory is that in the high country it's the steep descents, cold water creek crossing and the constant hammering they get . IE: hot-cold-hot-repeat.... throw in the odd situation where the traction control kicks in on a climb which loads up torque on one wheel. To further persuade my belief that this MAY be the cause. Prior to the high country, I had completed a 30,000K around Aus trip which included the gunbarrel, tanami,GRR,Savanah way and cape york etc etc........ and the wheels were perfect on completion.
As for the tyres. I'm running 265X65X17's. The first trip was on the AT3's and the second trip was on the ST Max both the same size tyres. I would not think tyre pressures would cause the cracks but once in the high country I'm usually running mid to high 20's depending on the situation and 40 PSI cold on the STmax, highway.

FRED FLINTSTONE :Rolling:--- that's good mate!!!

I'm still procrastinating on the steelies.......
regards
Brian

[LandyAndy]

Brian.
I went hunting for Summerfield Engineering in Kenwick to see if they can do a 18" D4 steelie,it seems they are gone.Just did a google they are now in Baldivis.
In the day they were the people to see for rim conversions for 4x4s and drag racing.They may be able to knock up a set of wheels for you.IF you are talking to them,see if they can do an 18" rim too.
Andrew

Summerfield Rim Conversions (Used to be Summerfield Engineering) - Wheels & Rims - Baldivis (http://www.yellowpages.com.au/wa/baldivis/summerfield-rim-conversions-used-to-be-summerfield-engineering-13909612-listing.html)

[NomadicD3]

Hi,
After getting several conflicting determinations as to the maximum legal increase of wheel track from multiple sources, I thought it best to go to the horses mouth. Attached is a page straight from the National code of practice regarding wheel track limits. The reason there was so much conflicting information was the changes that have taken place over the last few years. Originally the max increase was 50mm, that was reviewed after independent front suspension came in and reduced to 25 mm overall axle width, it has since be revised back to 50mm for all 4wd's. Also note that it's the "national" code of practice therefore should apply to all states.
regards
Brian

[gghaggis]

National Codes of Practice are not binding. Each state has the option to legislate in line with the NCOP, or ignore it. Which is why you need to know the individual state's position (and which version of the NCOP they enacted, if any).

Cheers,

Gordon

[LandyAndy]

Brian.
Have you seen this add????
Over east is the problem.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/showthread.php?p=2509028#post2509028
Andrew

[gghaggis]

Brian.
I went hunting for Summerfield Engineering in Kenwick to see if they can do a 18" D4 steelie,it seems they are gone.Just did a google they are now in Baldivis.
In the day they were the people to see for rim conversions for 4x4s and drag racing.They may be able to knock up a set of wheels for you.IF you are talking to them,see if they can do an 18" rim too.
Andrew

Summerfield Rim Conversions (Used to be Summerfield Engineering) - Wheels & Rims - Baldivis (http://www.yellowpages.com.au/wa/baldivis/summerfield-rim-conversions-used-to-be-summerfield-engineering-13909612-listing.html)

Been there, done that. In the end the best we got was a 17.5Kg rim with a +30 offset - not legal, but I still have a couple left if anyone wants to buy them .....


Cheers,

Gordon

[Fatso]

Any one still running on the Performance BB6 17inch wheels where some had cracking issues ?? . I fitted the type that needed the landrover wheel nuts to my 2007 RRS 2.7TD in 2013 and to date , have had no cracking issues or any probs what so ever . Just inerested to see if there are any still out there !! .
Certainly have been a bonus for me in that 17inch tyres can be got anywhere :thumbsup: . Cheers .

[swarover]

Still running them on my D3 S, had them since 160,000 km and now on 464,000 km. Been through several sets of 265/65 x17 tyres on all sorts of roads, they've done me well, as has the quite amazing car.

Cheers, Nathan