Some Offroad Advice Requested...

[Disco Muppet]

Evening folks.
Wandering into my local Opposite Lock today, I had a bit of a gauntlet thrown down at my feet.
Out in the local SF there are some sections that have been, at one point, chewed up by some yahoos in their mud crawling defect-monsters with 37" tyres, etc.
Now that they have dried out, they present a bit of an interest challenge, that being to get the disco through.
Not being entirely familiar with mud driving, and armed with the knowledge that experience is something you get only after you need it, I'm taking Xtremes advice and borrowing some :D

Some piccies.
This is the first section, nothing really to worry about.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/06/407.jpg (http://s1166.photobucket.com/user/DiscoMuppet/media/2013-06-20165148_zpse5c5e285.jpg.html)

This is where it gets interesting...
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/06/408.jpg (http://s1166.photobucket.com/user/DiscoMuppet/media/2013-06-20165206_zpsabec6a33.jpg.html)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/06/409.jpg (http://s1166.photobucket.com/user/DiscoMuppet/media/2013-06-20165440_zps7e91a679.jpg.html)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/06/410.jpg (http://s1166.photobucket.com/user/DiscoMuppet/media/2013-06-20165454_zpsb1f98727.jpg.html)

Sharp drop offs and sticky mud about 10cm deep, but with a firm bottom. Water is above the bottom of the doors by about 10cm with vertical drop ins, not gentle slops.
I've got open diffs, 2" lift and 245/70 ATRs.
Open to all suggestions on how to best tackle it, if a Prado can do it I'm sure a D2 can manage :D
Cheers
Muppet

[Sue]

How deep is the hole and what is the bottom like (ie sludge hard etc)..?

But basically... low range, 1st or 2nd gear a little bit of momentum (don't floor it like a yobbo though) and steady through... don't stop or chances are you will sink.. try not to change gears while driving through and keep your foot off the clutch or you'll lose traction. :) Just bear in mind that you might drive straight through without a care in the world, or you might bottom out and sink, get your cars interior wet and muddy, have to be recovered by a prado (eek) (usually with photographic evidence) and you could cause some damage to your car. That's the risk you take when you go 4WDing.. :)

Personally I would go around it though - hate mud... it does terrible things to cars..

[strangy]

Be careful you don't damage tyres, pic 3 has the telltale branches and timber used by someone to get through.

[Disco Muppet]

Yup, figured 2nd low. Would probably lock CDL, even though it means crawling under the car.
Auto so changing gears isn't an issue :)
Once I get into the large puddle at the end which is the deepest, I'm not too concerned, I've dealt with stuff like that before. It's the sticky, muddy section before it that concerns me, and the sheer drop offs. From the middle to the deep puddle it's maybe a thigh high drop down, where I run the risk of bottoming out on the bar. The mud is very sticky for between 5 and 15cm in places, but has a firm bottom.
I don't mind being recovered if I'm giving it a go, but I'd rather put an end to all their taunts :D

Yep Strangy I went and had a squiz today, people have chucked in wood. I've cleared most of it, but I'd get rid of it all before I went through.

[isuzutoo-eh]

I'm with Sue. Ugh, mud.

But if you must: Go first. That way it won't be as churned up. 2nd low is the go. No stabbing the throttle but if you feel yourself slowing increase revs to compensate. If you feel like progress is about to stop, stop and put it in reverse before you get properly bogged.
You may find more grip against the edge of the rut than the centre, but if you steer too hard against the edge you'll make it fight harder as it'll try and climb.A little sidewall pressure is good. A likely risk is diffing out if the ruts are deep enough-keeping right may give you a bit more clearance due to diff offset, but every hole is different.
Get some 7.50R16 tyres with a heavy lug pattern!

[jazzaD1]

Would probably lock CDL, even though it means crawling under the car

you should make that a rule whenever you go offroad

[dullbird]

the biggest thing you need to check on the 245's is that you have enough diff clearance on the track because thhat will be the thing that will bring you to a halt in open diffs..

I have found if you have lockers it will just drag the diff through if you don't once the diff is hung you then start to dig yourself little holes.

Lots of people have differing opinioins when it comes to mud, but for us we drove mud mainly in the UK we always kept our pressures high to cut through the slop to get to the firmer stuff down the bottom...it worked very well for us and rarely ever got stuck in mud..but its horses for course and of course depends on tyres etc...

if you do feel yourself starting to bog down just be careful putting the boot in hard to early just increase the revs a little, if you feel the car beginning to work I would say gently work the wheel because if you have muddies on you may just get a bit of traction from your side biters.. in saying that though also depends on the mud a bit of a spin from the wheel can clear treads giving you a bit moe of a chance with traction if all the reads are blocked up with clay.

this is just my/our experiences though Im not saying this is how to do it just what has worked for us and something to bare in mind if you do find yourself in a situation.

[redrovertdi]

changing gears is an issue if the water is deep enough and gets between your flywheel and friction plate and at worst you then lose all drive[happened to an aquaintence in a patrol-i had to winch out], later a mate in a disco 1 auto chewed out his auto box front seal in a deep mud hole. I strongly reccomend wading plugs if your planning a dirty day, im a bit of a sook and would drive around the hole now, spent to many hours in freezing cold puddles stuck[now have a winch] and the silt is abrasive to seals[swivel hub in my case[not yours on a disco 2] and steering boxs] but it is good fun.

[Disco Muppet]

Given that I now have dedicated road tyres waiting to go on some rims, some muddies are one the cards :)
I'm aiming to go more across to the right to try and minimise diffing out, although that won't work on the approach to the final entry to the deep puddle. I'm not a mud runner, and I do prefer rocks but I'm interested to see if I can make it through :)
I'd aim to enter with some momentum but not heaps to break traction.
AFAIK there are no wading plugs for a Td5 D2 auto, certainly none that I've come across.
The bloke in the prado has gone through before and he said he did diff out but he then proceeded to clear the tops and didn't the second time around

[isuzurover]

...

I'd aim to enter with some momentum ...


Best not to, that is how to damage things - especially if there are submerged obstacles. 2nd low at most, and not many revs.

You could even try crawling through in 1st low. It looks like reversing out would be possible if you lose forward progress.

As others have said, drive around if it is possible. Mud wrecks cars.

The only issue with holes like that is usually just the high spots in the middle. Use a stick to check depth in the middle first.

[Disco Muppet]

I spent a good half an hour playing depth guage, the deepest I measured was the 10cm or so above the sills, which is right at the entry point to the large puddle. It's not so much the mud that worries me, it's the sharp angles and not having enough contact to get the power to the ground.
I'm not risking a great deal, as I wouldn't do it on my own and I'm sure after a giggle they'd pull me out sharpish, they're decent blokes.

[LowRanger]

No use talking about it !!!!! Just drive it !!!!!:angel:

[MR LR]

You won't stop kicking yourself when your carpets fill up with silt, for 10 seconds of fun it's a lot of cleaning... (and mine only got to 50mm depth inside!! But luckily the D1 had that beautiful brown interior and thank god it had a winch!).

There's other things like going in with hot diffs and drawing water into them, ruining seals, trashing uni joints and all the rest, mud is horrible to cars, it's in our nature to try it, but I know after my experiences I now drive around them... (well at least the deep rutted ones ;) )

Your pretty Discovery, that I know you do countless highway miles in like me (when the stupid thing is working, 20L/100km in the RR is not nice going to a Uni when i do 150 a day!!) will thank you for going around!!

I bought an $800 RR for playing off road, but I'll be properly preparing it before I start mud runs.

The other thing is that immersion in water is known to set the 3 Amigos off, and once they come they never seem to leave.... (happened to our other D2).

If after all my illiterate babble you still want to give it a go, then make sure you're prepared well, and don't go in with a drive-line that's just been doing 100 clicks to get you there.

Good luck :p

Will

[isuzutoo-eh]

The best preparation is of course to cover all angles with video and still cameras...


And make an agreement, he who dared you has the job of attaching the recovery strap should you not proceed..

[Disco Muppet]

Thankfully, the points where I think I'm likely to get stuck aren't in the deep water section, and I've gone through deeper (and dirtier) water than that before. It's not far away and I'd definitely let the diffs cool down by having another walk around, checking depth, etc. Uni's are fine at the moment.
I'm still not even sure if I'll do it, but I didn't buy a Land Rover just to look pretty on the highway.
Then again I guess knowing when to pick your battles is a skill to be learnt.
And Mark?
If I do it, the owner of OL is giving me their new Go-Pro to whack on the car :D

[vnx205]

Unfortunately the first rule about driving through mud can't be applied in that situation.

The first rule is always skirt around the right hand side. That way it is your passenger rather than you that has to step out into the mud when you get stuck. :D

So you might have to apply the other rule. That is, don't drive through the mud if you can avoid it. :)

[Cobber]

Mud is horrible, go around if possible, or stick to the higher ground if you can get both left and right hand side wheels on solid(ish) ground. It saves beaching yourself! ;)

[Blknight.aus]

the auto changing gears can still cause you issues just the TC locking and unlocking can be enough but if it changes gears the change in torque appliction can be enough to give the same problem as dipping the clutch.

Every auto is a little different but locking it into gear so that the highest one you think is appropriate is the highest gear availalble is a good start and selecting sports can hold off the upshift.

As with all 2 position switches there are 2 school of thoughts with equally credible ideas that will typically work equally well in different situations.

Time to go and get some first hand experience and find out how your ride likes to be handled.

[Disco Muppet]

Using the mode feature on low range locks it in that gear, so I'd probably pick low one now that I think about it
we'll see how things look tomorrow :)

[Tank]

Evening folks.
Wandering into my local Opposite Lock today, I had a bit of a gauntlet thrown down at my feet.
Out in the local SF there are some sections that have been, at one point, chewed up by some yahoos in their mud crawling defect-monsters with 37" tyres, etc.
Now that they have dried out, they present a bit of an interest challenge, that being to get the disco through.
Not being entirely familiar with mud driving, and armed with the knowledge that experience is something you get only after you need it, I'm taking Xtremes advice and borrowing some :D

Some piccies.
This is the first section, nothing really to worry about.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/06/407.jpg (http://s1166.photobucket.com/user/DiscoMuppet/media/2013-06-20165148_zpse5c5e285.jpg.html)

This is where it gets interesting...
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/06/408.jpg (http://s1166.photobucket.com/user/DiscoMuppet/media/2013-06-20165206_zpsabec6a33.jpg.html)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/06/409.jpg (http://s1166.photobucket.com/user/DiscoMuppet/media/2013-06-20165440_zps7e91a679.jpg.html)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/06/410.jpg (http://s1166.photobucket.com/user/DiscoMuppet/media/2013-06-20165454_zpsb1f98727.jpg.html)

Sharp drop offs and sticky mud about 10cm deep, but with a firm bottom. Water is above the bottom of the doors by about 10cm with vertical drop ins, not gentle slops.
I've got open diffs, 2" lift and 245/70 ATRs.
Open to all suggestions on how to best tackle it, if a Prado can do it I'm sure a D2 can manage :D
Cheers
Muppet
Go around it, mud is a destroyer of 4WD's, Regards Frank.

[Yorkie]

Track off to the right, join that before proceeding further. :D

[greg smith]

DRIVE AROUND WHERE YOU CAN ------WATER,FINE MUD,HIDDEN SHARP STICKS AND ROOTS WILL JUST MAKE YOUR LIFE A LITTLE HARDER TO BEAR:D:twisted:

[jazzaD1]

things are never the same after you pull the carpet out for the first time...

[460cixy]

No use talking about it !!!!! Just drive it !!!!!:angel:

I totally agree and take a mate to snatch you out if you get in to trouble only thing I don't like about. It is the wood and crap stacked in there

[Disco Muppet]

I'd have to go fishing for the wood, as there's some in the deep puddle at the end.
I have a solution: When my mate went through there was no mud, and the challenge he gave me was the ruts, not the mud.
Wait for mud to dry out, drive ruts.
QED
Not alot of point in risking damage to my daily driver.
Now, all I need is some 35s and an old rangie....

[MR LR]

I'd have to go fishing for the wood, as there's some in the deep puddle at the end.
I have a solution: When my mate went through there was no mud, and the challenge he gave me was the ruts, not the mud.
Wait for mud to dry out, drive ruts.
QED
Not alot of point in risking damage to my daily driver.
Now, all I need is some 35s and an old rangie....

Good to hear you've come to your senses, learn from everyone else's **** up's ;):cool::eek:.

And hey that's my idea to supplement the D2!! :p:censored::angrylock::wasntme::mad::D:D

Cheers
Will

[Disco Muppet]

Good to hear you've come to your senses, learn from everyone else's **** up's ;):cool::eek:.

And hey that's my idea to supplement the D2!! :p:censored::angrylock::wasntme::mad::D:D

Cheers
Will

Me? Sense? :huh:
:D
Add to that I really can't be bothered getting cold, wet, and muddy at the moment.
It's a pity as I'd like to give it a go but it's just not the most practical idea at the moment.

[Grimace]

blablabla
defect-monsters with 37" tyres, etc.


As an owner of the above my advice would be to stay out of the puddle.
Mud destroys everything!!! EVERYTHING!!!!

On another note wheel spin is what chews the tracks up, not big tyres ;)

[Xtreme]

As an owner of the above my advice would be to stay out of the puddle.
Mud destroys everything!!! EVERYTHING!!!!

On another note wheel spin is what chews the tracks up, not big tyres ;)

And when wheel spin AND big tyres are combined the result is extra deep ruts and other track damage. :mad: Certainly not all, but the majority of 4WD owners who fit oversize tyres and excessive lifts seem to rely more on their modifications than driving skill to get through/over an obstacle.

I think that the biggest problem in negotiating the subject mudhole in a relative standard 4WD would be getting hung up on the diffs as a result of the deep ruts.
The fact that water is sitting there indicates that there is a solid bottom, the problem is to get your driving wheels in contact with it. As it is in relatively flat country, 100mm of silt or muddy water half way up the doors on their own are not going to stop you, it will be the diffs fouling on the hump between the ruts that will cause a FTP.

Remember the golden questions when confronted with an obstacle -
1. Do I have to go there?
2. Is there an alternative route I can take?

I realise your keen to get experience Muppet and it's good to see that you are seeking advice here. This means that you have already realised that experience can be gained by questioning and observing as well as hands on.

I'm also surprised and impressed with the number of members who have posted in this thread who advise avoiding mud whenever possible - I thought I was the odd one out until reading this thread.

[isuzurover]

...

I have a solution: When my mate went through there was no mud, and the challenge he gave me was the ruts, not the mud.
Wait for mud to dry out, drive ruts.
QED
....

Better yet, find soomething that is a real challenge for both of you to drive, like a steep rutted hill climb...

[Homestar]

Geez, if there was this much discussion every time we came accross a mud hole in Wombat, you would never get half way through the first track in a full day!:D

Yes, mud stuffs things, but is it fun??? **** YES!!!:D

Just drive through it.:). If your carpets get wet, pull 'em out. If your ECU gets drowned, grab a hair dryer...;) (that's a Wombat joke?:))

Here's a vid of some fellow forumites (not me unfortunately) playing in the Wombat mud.:) Should give you an idea of what you will look like when ploughing through that mud hole of yours.:)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OArQVURmvgA

[MR LR]

Looks like those cars that are successfully making the mud runs are a little more set up for it than Muppet's D2 dd, nothing wrong with mud if the cars properly prepared, and then cleaned propely afterwards, especially for a daily driver.

Cheers
Will

[Disco Muppet]

Looks like those cars that are successfully making the mud runs are a little more set up for it than Muppet's D2 dd, nothing wrong with mud if the cars properly prepared, and then cleaned propely afterwards, especially for a daily driver.

Cheers
Will

No point risking damage to my vehicle purely for the sake of a dick measuring contest.

[MR LR]

No point risking damage to my vehicle purely for the sake of a dick measuring contest.
Bloody oath

[Eevo]

Learn by doing
Muddying is not a spectator sport, you need to in the drives seat to learn.
If you get stuck, get pulled out and try again.
4wd is designed for mud, stop being a hard Parker.

[Eevo]

More disco mud
Land Rover - Wombat August 2010 AULRO - YouTube

[Eevo]

No point risking damage to my vehicle purely for the sake of a dick measuring contest.

It's not a dick measuring contest, it's a learning experience and about having some fun.

Remember your not a Toyota ******, your a Disco muppet.

[Disco Muppet]

Except in this case, that's exactly what it is.
I'm not going to go into something that I have minimal practical experience in, without being correctly equipped for it, and risk damaging my vehicle as I really can't afford it at the moment.
There's more to 4WDing than just mud.
I'm sure I will give it a go, just not right now.
Everyone drives at a different level, maybe this just isn't my level at the moment.

[Eevo]

And you only gain experience by doing.
Start small, like the pics in your first post.

One of my biggest regrets early on is not realising what the disco is capable of and being too timid as a result.

[Disco Muppet]

It's not so much the mud that bothers me, it's all the dirty water at the end. There's definitely wood in there, as I could feel it when I checked the depth. I'm more than happy to give it a bash (figuratively) but I'd rather be able to see if I'm about to stake a tyre or something like that.
Even if the mud is still there, I'd prefer to wait until the water drops a bit (which won't be long). Gives me a chance to find some steep hill climbs to satisfy Isuzurover :p
And Grimace, yes mate I'm aware it's the wheel-spin that does the track chewing, it's just unfortunately the wheel spinners drive ****-box patrols with urbane and sophisticated stickers plastered on them, featuring such witty lines as "Mud ****- hitting every hole" :mad: