Where'sthe justice?

[V8Ian]

Kids, drugs, rape.......I would have expected 15 years, 10 without parole.

Girls drugged and raped by family friend (http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/2013/06/20/12/21/girls-drugged-and-raped-by-family-friend)

[redrovertdi]

As is all to common now, the court treats the agressor as the victim and the real victims dont count...

[V8Ian]

I'd have no hesitation punching the slime ball in the face, but I bet I'd get a year for it.

[BMKal]

Well, if you look at the bloke who was just sentenced for the murder of Jill Meagher - she was the 23rd rape that he had committed. When he raped and murdered her, he was on bail facing charges for 5 other rapes.

It's about time someone held the pathetic judges / judiciary in this country accountable for some of the scum that they let back out on the streets.

As a manager in the workplace, if I knowingly allow an unsafe condition to continue in the workplace, I can be prosecuted for it and receive all sorts of penalties, depending on the outcome of the unsafe condition (how seriously someone is injured) - and rightly so. Yet these pathetic ****s who are supposed to be upholding the law can allow scum out on the street in full knowledge of their past history of offending - and there is absolutely no comeback on them when the results of their decisions are that another rape or murder occurs.

[Chucaro]

Well, if you look at the bloke who was just sentenced for the murder of Jill Meagher - she was the 23rd rape that he had committed. When he raped and murdered her, he was on bail facing charges for 5 other rapes.

It's about time someone held the pathetic judges / judiciary in this country accountable for some of the scum that they let back out on the streets.
.................................................. ............
:mad: Agree 100% with that. the girl is death, the family is destroyed for ever and the "rehabilitation experts" are not accountable for their negligence.

I wish that one day we are going to have a Court of Justice and not a Court of Law :mad:

[easo]

and there is absolutely no comeback on them when the results of their decisions

I'm am liable for WHS to my trainees, then so should they be if an offender should have been more harshly dealt with.

[Chops]

There's no real justice anymore it seems. And when they do get caught and go to jail, they live better than most of us who abide by the rules and work for a living.

We had a phone call last Saturday night (long weekend) when our daughter was taken to hospital after her drink was spiked at a club in Melb. She/We were very lucky she had a friend with her that realised what was going on and dealt with it all very quickly. Made it very difficult for us as we were both away.

[Bearman]

I totally agree, they should at bare minimum be "bricked" before they are released. And to all the do gooders out there, no it doesn't hurt unless you get your thumbs caught in between the bricks:D

[spudboy]

Kids, drugs, rape.......I would have expected 15 years, 10 without parole.



Probably had a 'difficult childhood' or something. Wouldn't have been his fault. Now feeling remorseful. Etc etc.

Oh - suuuuure..... 2 years'll do.

[Blknight.aus]

I'd let him get away with 2 years suspended*

* by his testicles on a bit of High A piano wire an inch and a half over the workings in the hopper of a forrestry class drum wood grinder

[Basil135]

So, there is a guy in the US on death row after being convicted of 3 counts of rape.

This guy commits HOW MANY, and is eligble for parole. :nazilock:

The coppers bust a gut proving they have the right person, and the DPP & courts let them down.

Life should mean life. Full stop. End of Comment.

I am sure there are stats out there, about how many convicted offenders re-offend with either a similar offence, or a "greater" one. I would suspect that it would not be an insignificant number.

Judges are supposed to reflect community expectations in their sentencing. If you ever want to get your blood pressure up, have a read of the sentencing comments from your local court. They should be available on-line.

[digger]

I'd let him get away with 2 years suspended*

* by his testicles on a bit of High A piano wire an inch and a half over the workings in the hopper of a forrestry class drum wood grinder

Why aren't you a Chief Magistrate??

I can't see any reason at all... :eek::twisted::wasntme:

(I can hear it now, "yeh face the hopper this way, this is the part of the botanic garden that hasnt had blood n bone this year yet" ):twisted:



Life should mean life. Full stop. End of Comment.


Maybe when sentenced to life they should have access to a decent short length of rope and one allocated hanging point in each cell, in case they wish to 'man up" But on the other hand
that would be the easy way out, there should be no possibility of parole and nothing but hard back breaking work to do at least 5 days a week..

[Disco Muppet]

Why aren't you a Chief Magistrate??

I can't see any reason at all... :eek::twisted::wasntme:


Me neither, court TV would become a hell of a lot more interesting.

[Chops]

The guy in the USA has the right idea with his tent city prison,, "old school",, no TV's or any luxuries for them at all. Just how it should be. ;)

Crimes like rape, murder etc,, bring back Draw& Quartering,,

Real justice and consequence's of peoples actions might start to slow the thugs of this world up a bit. But of course, the fact that parents/teachers cant discipline is not helping our cause at all. Basically, there's no "pecking order" anymore.

[digger]

My question is,
this guy has 28 odd KNOWN rapes and sexual assaults already chalked up...

so he wont be eligable to be released until he is 70 something...

he wont be able to attack women as easily...

who do you think he will target??

This is a rare example, a man who is completely without remorse and is still hunting whenever he is not restrained... this is the living example of why there is a no parole clause.

On the other hand there is legislation that states if you please guilty at an early hearing etc you MUST be granted a certain discount to your sentence. The Justice (judge) involved stated that he fully intended sentencing him to life without any possibility but then gave the sentence he did..

I think the preferred sentence may have been,

Maybe 35 years for the murder
another say 35 for the rape (remember he has another 5 rape charges outstanding...so 20+ years each on top??)
another maybe 35 for the abduction/unlawful detention
and only 10 more for breaching parole.
(and you can take the discount off them for the guilty plea)

(but they are to be served consecutively)

[Chucaro]

To keep this bastards in prision cost us more that $40000 a year so I am against it.
My proposal is (on the spirit of globalization) "export them" to some "selected"prisons and pay the respective countries $10000 for each prisoner.
Kresty Prison, located in St. Petersburg, Russia can be a good start
Camp 22 in North Korea could be another option
Then again Sabana in Venezuela have the best accomodation

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[Mick_Marsh]

To keep this bastards in prision cost us more that $40000 a year so I am against it.
My proposal is (on the spirit of globalization) "export them" to some "selected"prisons and pay the respective countries $10000 for each prisoner.
Kresty Prison, located in St. Petersburg, Russia can be a good start
Camp 22 in North Korea could be another option
Then again Sabana in Venezuela have the best accomodation
I've said it before, and I'll say it again.
"Vote 1 - Chucaro for PM"

If our manufacturing is going off shore, our banking is going off shore and our refugee processing is going off shore, It makes sense to move our prison system off shore.
Have a truly global economy.

[Sandgroper]

There is no justice in this country and hasn't been for a long time now. I decided years ago that I would be taking the law into my own hands were anyone to harm any member of my family and I still adhere to that.

[ATH]

I read this morning that the law society (protection for stupid lawyers, judges etc) is saying that there should be no adverse reaction to this case and lawmakers should not take notice of so called community concerns.
If it was just this once maybe but it's not, this type of thing has happened numerous times over the years and probably can traced back to the adoption of the softy softly approach to sentencing of crims pushed by all sorts of do gooders including types like our Ed Dept. psychiatrist DiL with whom, thankfully, we have no contact although that also means no contact with the G/Kids.
If it costs too much to keep crims in prison it's because of the luxurious conditions they're kept in plus all the goodies like TVs and computers.
First off they should get a period of hard labour and constant exercise and be constantly assessed to make sure it's working and if it ain't, make it harder!
Only at the end of a sentence should they be considered as fit for release with strict supervision.
AlanH.

[THE BOOGER]

So, there is a guy in the US on death row after being convicted of 3 counts of rape.

This guy commits HOW MANY, and is eligble for parole. :nazilock:

The coppers bust a gut proving they have the right person, and the DPP & courts let them down.

Life should mean life. Full stop. End of Comment.

I am sure there are stats out there, about how many convicted offenders re-offend with either a similar offence, or a "greater" one. I would suspect that it would not be an insignificant number.

Judges are supposed to reflect community expectations in their sentencing. If you ever want to get your blood pressure up, have a read of the sentencing comments from your local court. They should be available on-line.

They are out there
Australian Institute of Criminology - Recidivism (http://www.aic.gov.au/crime_community/communitycrime/recidivism.html)

60% of those in gaol have been there before Looks to me the rehab side is not working very well and the punishment side went out when social workers got to work:(

[Chucaro]

.................................................. ......
If it costs too much to keep crims in prison it's because of the luxurious conditions they're kept in plus all the goodies like TVs and computers.
First off they should get a period of hard labour and constant exercise and be constantly assessed to make sure it's working and if it ain't, make it harder!
Only at the end of a sentence should they be considered as fit for release with strict supervision.
AlanH.

There is no hope to do that as long as the international do-gooders like the UN, the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights, etc complain that in poor countries the prisons do not meet "human standard requirements"
They pretend that governments allocate money to improve jail conditions when some countries do not have enough to provide housing to the poor law obedient people and law income workers :mad:
The sad part is that USA representatives are members of these "do good" organizations when the have appalling conditions in Guantanamo and other jails in USA.

[Blknight.aus]

Im confused, Why would the human rights mob want anything to do with it?

Dont you have to display humane values to be considered human?

[THE BOOGER]

What is inhumane about this not talking about the guilt or other wise of the occupant but it looks pretty clean for a prison cell :)

File:Guantanamo Bay David Hicks Cell, Reading Room Inset.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Guantanamo_Bay_David_Hicks_Cell,_Reading_Room _Inset.jpg)

[digger]

It makes sense to move our prison system off shore.


Hold on.... Isn't that how AUSTRALIA started??

Well that's it,I give up, psychadelic patterened shirts came back, flares came back, sailing prisoners off shore is back (they have started already with Nauru) but still no safari suits ???:mad:

[Mick_Marsh]

Hold on.... Isn't that how AUSTRALIA started??
Proof of concept. Thanks for that Digger.

The safari suit? I must get one. Complete with pith helmet.

[V8Ian]

but still no safari suits ???:mad:
Praise the Lord, my Dad had one. :angrylock:

[digger]

Praise the Lord, my Dad had one. :angrylock:

I was the proud owner of a beige safari suit which mustve shrunk over time :angel:

and

a magnificent light blue 100% polyester safari suit, with plunging centre neckline and a total of 3 buttons... This was lost to an almost serious injury fire when it came into contact with a flaming bamboo flare and only due to a quick 'derobing' noone was seriously hurt. This occurred during football grandfinal winning celebrations... (in the early 2000's)

But the fright was that severe I was forced to continue drinking for 2 days...

that's my version anyway.... sorry to lead off topic.

[Chucaro]

Hold on.... Isn't that how AUSTRALIA started??
...................................

Yes, and was a kind of globalization back then with the only difference that was run by a few royal families and now is run by banks and corporations :D
I guess that it is part of the evolution with a touch of the pass.
If we feel a bit nostalgic we can send the prisoners to the OS jails on the boats used by the refugees to come to Australia.
That will cut the cost a bit :D

[V8Ian]

Make parolees wear safari suits, they may volunteer to stay in goal. :nazilock:

[sashadidi]

Further to Chucaro"s post regarding prison accommodation
Russian Prison system

Inside: Russias Toughest Prisons (National Geographic) FULL VIDEO - YouTube

and the opposite of it in Norway

World's Nicest Prison: Halden Prison, Norway - YouTube

[Pickles2]

I agree with al the comments here......but guys....IT'S GETTING WORSE.
I heard about a case a couple of days ago where Police randomly pulled over a car.....the guy in the back, apparently a Sudanese, been in trouble before, didn't want the car searched, kicked up a fuss. Took the matter to Court, & the Magistrate found the guy NOT guilty & said that the Police had infringed his "Human Rights", by pulling the car over, which "frightened him",and that they had no right to do so?.....ABSOLUTE CR.P.
I was pulled over randomly a few years ago....saw the flashing blue lights behind me, so pulled over...Police asked to see my license, where was I going, asked me to open the boot....then said thank you sir, just a random check. I actually congratulated them for doing a good job.....Shold be more of it I reckon.
I heard of another issue this morning....Illegal immigrants now being let out into the Community on $220 P.W., with absolutely NO HOPE of getting a job.....so now, they're starting to form gangs etc etc...got nothing else to do...what is our "Justice" System going to do about that.
Young people, Young Aussies, growing up, particularly in a few years time, as things continue to get worse, are going to face a far different World to the one I grew up in.....Are you worried, ...if ya're not, ya should be.....if not for yourself, but for your kids.
Cheers, Pickles.

[Chucaro]

I hope that in Norway the homeless,the old and sick people live in better condition than those in jail other ways it will be an injustice.

[sheerluck]

.....and the opposite of it in Norway.....

That Norwegian prison featured on "And the truth is...." with Hamish Macdonald a couple of weeks ago. Some of their strategy makes sense, but a lot of it does not.

The Norwegians are quite different to Americans though, I really couldn't see the Norwegian system working in the US.

[Chucaro]

I agree with al the comments here......but guys....IT'S GETTING WORSE.
.................................................. ..................................
I heard of another issue this morning....Illegal immigrants now being let out into the Community on $220 P.W., with absolutely NO HOPE of getting a job.....so now, they're starting to form gangs etc etc...got nothing else to do...what is our "Justice" System going to do about that.
Young people, Young Aussies, growing up, particularly in a few years time, as things continue to get worse, are going to face a far different World to the one I grew up in.....Are you worried, ...if ya're not, ya should be.....if not for yourself, but for your kids.
Cheers, Pickles.

Paying them $220 pw it is about 50% bellow the poverty line which it is a complete stupid and only a policy to look good. It is not a solution.
I would give the chance to the poor buggers providing them with the facilities to integrate in the society in an honorable way.
Why not subdivide a big farm in parcels were these people can learn to grow their own food and sell the produce in the local markets?
Why not build a workshop were they can learn to maintain the machinery and make tools?
Why not teach them to look after animals and sell them?
I cannot put up with politicians without guts or basic knowledge or intelligence to do something positive and only create more problems.
We need to expand our "food pantry" and stop importing food, give the chance to these people and will be a win win for all.


W

[digger]

Paying them $220 pw it is about 50% bellow the poverty line which it is a complete stupid and only a policy to look good. It is not a solution.
I would give the chance to the poor buggers providing them with the facilities to integrate in the society in an honorable way.
Why not subdivide a big farm in parcels were these people can learn to grow their own food and sell the produce in the local markets?
Why not build a workshop were they can learn to maintain the machinery and make tools?
Why not teach them to look after animals and sell them?
I cannot put up with politicians without guts or basic knowledge or intelligence to do something positive and only create more problems.
We need to expand our "food pantry" and stop importing food, give the chance to these people and will be a win win for all.


W

So why are we not doing this for our people who want to do it??
for instance:
we cant match the price of oranges from o/s as we cannot use the chemicals they use , theyre banned here -- yet still show larger traces than we used to use in the OJ and fruit coming in??
we cant match their prices...


Why not have a clause about local fruit being exhausted (relating to condition and price) before any imported fruit or juice allowed??

Maybe this mess is because we dont protect our primary industry??.. we are allowing diseased fruit (fireblight) in from NZ because they jacked up about the free trade agreement.. can we now send them some poisonous land snakes and spiders
and insist they take them under the same idea?
No? why is that, because it would be bad for NZ?? MMM interesting they can refuse but we cannot?

Whoever writes these agreements is a fool if there is not a no harm clause!

As for your suggestion, Maybe the Govt should reopen all the old railway workshops, teaching metalwork, woodwork , boilermaking, etc etc and trades
Offer the best trainees a government job and then the rest can be intergrated into the work force (more tradies) on graduating. (at a minimal cost to the employer .)

help our primary industry because it is just that...the PRIMARY industry.

Just a thought.

[Chucaro]

So why are we not doing this for our people who want to do it??
Just a thought.

Because we have and voted (no many options there :( )politicians without guts or basic knowledge or intelligence to do something positive.
My thoughts are in my signature ;)

[Saitch]

I think this has digressed from the original topic but if you look at all the trouble in the world how much is brought upon us by Buddhist, Christian, Taoist, or Hindu tenets?

[Chucaro]

I think this has digressed from the original topic but if you look at all the trouble in the world how much is brought upon us by Buddhist, Christian, Taoist, or Hindu tenets?

Nothing to do with religion mate, it is human nature, greed for power, money, etc, that it is the history of humanity.
Back to the topic........................................

[digger]

I think this has digressed from the original topic but if you look at all the trouble in the world how much is brought upon us by Buddhist, Christian, Taoist, or Hindu tenets?

You missed Armish, Christadelphian and multiple other faiths that havent caused any problems... not to mention multiple people without faiths who havent done anything wrong...

(Just stirring the pot :twisted: )

[newlandyowner]

Death penalty.

The monster that destroyed not only Jill's life, but also her husbands and family's should be put to death. He cannot be rehabilitated. Why should tax payers pay to keep him in prison? He is an oxygen thief.

Harsher penalties do nothing, the police are powerless and the do gooders keep protecting these monsters.

It would send a clear message, take or destroy someone's life, and the government will take yours.

[justinc]

'Man has dominated man to his detriment'

It is as Arthur mentioned human nature to do bad, a supreme effort to do good. Religion has little to do with it IMO.

JC

[Mick_Marsh]

Paying them $220 pw it is about 50% bellow the poverty line which it is a complete stupid and only a policy to look good. It is not a solution.
I would give the chance to the poor buggers providing them with the facilities to integrate in the society in an honorable way.
I think you may find they are not Australian citizens. They are here under "temporary protection visas". They should not be competing against the unemployed citizens of Australia for a job. The should not be able to integrate into Australia until they become Australian citizens.
But let's not let this thread degenerate into yet another "Illegal Immigrant" thread.

[Mick_Marsh]

So why are we not doing this for our people who want to do it??
for instance:
we cant match the price of oranges from o/s as we cannot use the chemicals they use , theyre banned here -- yet still show larger traces than we used to use in the OJ and fruit coming in??
we cant match their prices...


Why not have a clause about local fruit being exhausted (relating to condition and price) before any imported fruit or juice allowed??

Maybe this mess is because we dont protect our primary industry??.. we are allowing diseased fruit (fireblight) in from NZ because they jacked up about the free trade agreement.. can we now send them some poisonous land snakes and spiders
and insist they take them under the same idea?
No? why is that, because it would be bad for NZ?? MMM interesting they can refuse but we cannot?

Whoever writes these agreements is a fool if there is not a no harm clause!

As for your suggestion, Maybe the Govt should reopen all the old railway workshops, teaching metalwork, woodwork , boilermaking, etc etc and trades
Offer the best trainees a government job and then the rest can be intergrated into the work force (more tradies) on graduating. (at a minimal cost to the employer .)

help our primary industry because it is just that...the PRIMARY industry.

Just a thought.
Vote 1 - Digger for PM.

[Mick_Marsh]

Death penalty.
Could you pull the lever to end someone's life? I couldn't.
What if they're later posthumously proven innocent? Having pulled the lever to take the life of an innocent person, should you be put to death?

Incarceration. No parole. No TV. No comfort. Hard labour in a chain gang sealing roads (refer "Cool Hand Luke").

[DeeJay]

To keep this bastards in prision cost us more that $40000 a year so I am against it.
My proposal is (on the spirit of globalization) "export them" to some "selected"prisons and pay the respective countries $10000 for each prisoner.
Kresty Prison, located in St. Petersburg, Russia can be a good start
Camp 22 in North Korea could be another option
Then again Sabana in Venezuela have the best accomodation

http://amradaronline.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/sabaneta-prison.jpg?w=415

Maybe $40,000 to feed him...

Try $128,500

Deloitte Access Economics Report, released February 2013, 86 pages

In 2011, there were 115 correctional custodial facilities in Australia, and in 2010–11, more than $3 billion was spent on Australian prisons. The estimated annual average cost per prisoner per day in 2012–13 is $315.

[Chops]

I really don't understand how the "do-gooders" can justify making sure prisoners get everything they want, whilst families are condemned to have to sort out their losses of family/friends.
No amount of money will compensate them for their loss,, I don't see the "do-gooders" helping them :mad:, maybe if the shoe was on the other foot, they might think twice about screaming "human rights" for criminals.

[digger]

Vote 1 - Digger for PM.

Mick!! I didnt realise you hated me???? :p

[newlandyowner]

Could you pull the lever to end someone's life? I couldn't.
What if they're later posthumously proven innocent? Having pulled the lever to take the life of an innocent person, should you be put to death?

Incarceration. No parole. No TV. No comfort. Hard labour in a chain gang sealing roads (refer "Cool Hand Luke").


If they are proven guilty beyond doubt, like the Jill Meagher case, I sure could pull the lever/trigger. Especially if it happened to some one in my family or I knew.

I'm not saying everyone gets the death penalty, just the ones that are outright guilty in disgusting cases like this.

[BMKal]

Could you pull the lever to end someone's life?

Without a moment's hesitation. ;)

No difference to pulling the trigger when out eradicating feral dogs / cats.

[Chucaro]

Maybe $40,000 to feed him...

Try $128,500

Deloitte Access Economics Report, released February 2013, 86 pages

In 2011, there were 115 correctional custodial facilities in Australia, and in 2010–11, more than $3 billion was spent on Australian prisons. The estimated annual average cost per prisoner per day in 2012–13 is $315.

A single old pensioner who has worked all his life earns $ 366.50 per week.
There is something wrong there IMHO :mad:
Start exporting them NOW :mad:

[digger]

A single old pensioner who has worked all his life earns $ 366.50 per week.
There is something wrong there IMHO :mad:
Start exporting them NOW :mad:

We cant export pensioners!!! :eek:

Although we have been doing from SA to the Gold Coast for years!! :)

[Chucaro]

We cant export pensioners!!! :eek:

Although we have been doing from SA to the Gold Coast for years!! :)

:bat: if you read the content of the previous posts you will see that we are talking in exporting the prisoners.
Smart old bugger :D

[sheerluck]

:bat: if you read the content of the previous posts you will see that we are talking in exporting the prisoners.
Smart old bugger :D

Digger's idea has merit though, it's cheaper to keep the prisoners than the pensioners!

[Chucaro]

Digger's idea has merit though, it's cheaper to keep the prisoners than the pensioners!
I love your maths Dave, a pensioner earns or cost $19000 per year to keep a prisoner cost $128000 a year. :)

[sheerluck]

I love your maths Dave, a pensioner earns or cost $19000 per year to keep a prisoner cost $128000 a year. :)

Alright, minor reading problem. There was a post that said it costs $315 per day to keep a prisoner, I misread it as per week.

Can we export the pensioners anyway? :D

[Chucaro]

Alright, minor reading problem. There was a post that said it costs $315 per day to keep a prisoner, I misread it as per week.

Can we export the pensioners anyway? :D

Yes, to Monaco, there are no taxes there :cool:
Then again I do not think that a bit over $300 a week will be enough to even buy the groceries :(

[Mick_Marsh]

Alright, minor reading problem. There was a post that said it costs $315 per day to keep a prisoner, I misread it as per week.

Can we export the pensioners anyway? :D
Yep. Victoria has been exporting them to QLD for some time now.
Much like Digger said.

[Chucaro]

Yep. Victoria has been exporting them to QLD for some time now.
Much like Digger said.

........and thanks to that the selling of mobility scooters in the Wide Bay are is booming, not to mention the building of retirement villages :D

[Disco Muppet]

Retirees help us keep our fuel costs down, by ensuring we can't go too fast behind them :D

[sheerluck]

Retirees help us keep our fuel costs down, by ensuring we can't go too fast behind them :D

I thought at first you meant you burned them!

"It's getting cold tonight dear, would you throw another pensioner on the fire"

[Chucaro]

I thought at first you meant you burned them!

"It's getting cold tonight dear, would you throw another pensioner on the fire"

Dave, they will have so many medicines in their guts that your fireplace will disintegrate with the explosion :D

[UncleHo]

Oy,I resent that,us elderly folk,have done a lot of hard yards before we got to our age,so we have earned the right to our pensions,some of our unfortunate have never had the ability to work,others are on a pension through accidents etc. I am one of these,MVA in 1973,went back to work until 83 then put on Invalid Pension,now Supporting Pension,but worked part time driving school buses until 2000,when owner sold out and retired.so living long term and raising a family is not then easiest on a pension even if supplemented by part time work,try buying a house,car,furniture,etc. the finance companies and banks won't even look at you,maybe that is why I have older Land Rovers and a RRC but them and my furnishings We own and are not beholden to any finance company.

But now I have letters after my name-----OAP-----old age pensioner!!!

cheers

[Chucaro]

Oy,I resent that,us elderly folk,have done a lot of hard yards before we got to our age,so we have earned the right to our pensions,some of our unfortunate have never had the ability to work,others are on a pension through accidents etc. I am one of these,MVA in 1973,went back to work until 83 then put on Invalid Pension,now Supporting Pension,but worked part time driving school buses until 2000,when owner sold out and retired.so living long term and raising a family is not then easiest on a pension even if supplemented by part time work,try buying a house,car,furniture,etc. the finance companies and banks won't even look at you,maybe that is why I have older Land Rovers and a RRC but them and my furnishings We own and are not beholden to any finance company.

But now I have letters after my name-----OAP-----old age pensioner!!!

cheers

Uncle Ho I am an old bugger as well but acting undercover in this thread to see who are the conspirators :D
Without the hard work of the previous generations Australia will be nothing.