My (more than usual) sluggish 300tdi

[Flexual]

Hi guys, I own a 300tdi disco with an auto trans and no engine mods. Recently I was driving up mount bawbaw. If you know the mountain, I was just driving up the finial 6km sealed road to the village, and its steep. I couldn't get it over about 30km p/h without sending the pyro into the 600deg range and eventually I got a transmission fluid temp alarm, so I pulled over, cooled it down and turned back.

Now I know these trucks are sluggish but this was REALLY slow. I had the auto rebuilt about 25-30k km ago and had the follow up service done on it so I'm hoping its not the issue... I had a quick chat with the mechanic who worked on it, his response wasn't overly convincing, saying that "its an old car and the transmission cooler cant really keep up, so I can fit a newer, bigger, better one for a fee". Now that may be worth doing anyway, but it felt like it just wasn't delivering any power.
It seemed to jump on and off boost (about 2.5-3k rpm in 2nd gear) which got me thinking that perhaps my injector pump needs a good tune or there is a turbo/intercooler issue.
I'm not very knowledgeable with cars so I'm obviously just speculating.

Some other general info :

On a mild incline, I can't accelerate beyond about 60-70k unloaded. (Me driving, one passenger with virtually no gear). I've only got a roof rack and a steel bar up front on standard size A/T tyres.

It's seems to need excessive time to warm up: Generally need to run it for 5mins or get the pyrometer up to about 80 deg on idle before it will pull away. Colder than that and it barely moves.

Fuel economy is average. 80L tank sees me through about 650-720 km with normal driving.

So, my questions are...

Does this sound abnormal?
If it sounds like I need a proper tune, is there somewhere reputable I can send it to get the injector pump, fuel system tuned? (I've heard good things about Clayton Diesel... )
Does it sound like a turbo/intercooler/plumbing issue?
Gearbox?

Thanks in advance for help/tips!

[Judo]

I would start with some checks on intake air flow. Take the hoses off and look inside if they feel OK from the outside. Particularly between turbo and intercooler.

[wrinklearthur]

With the over heating, I changed the radiator out with a new one after trying everything else and the new radiator fixed all the problems.
After a while ( 250,000 - 300,000 Klm's ) these radiators get a plaque build up inside the tubes that run through the radiator's core and that plaque is a very poor conductor of heat.

What Judo has said, check inside the hoses for any signs of them delaminating, wash the insides of the intercooler out with kero or similar, but make sure you get rid of any fumes before you hook it backup.

Is the transmission due for a new filter and fluid?

Fuel filter and the sedimentor may need servicing as they maybe restricting the diesel flow.
.

[Flexual]

Thanks for the replies.

Ill give the air intake and turbo plumbing a clean up and see how I go from there.

Trans fluid is fresh, had the box serviced last month, I'd assume the filter was done too but ill have to confirm that. Is that something I could do myself without having to lift the car up?

I have replaced, the sedimenter, pump, and injector pump and tank 2years ago, but haven't cleaned the sedimenter since... Perhaps ill do that! I changed the fuel filter last month.

I had a radiator core replaced 18months ago too along with some coolant pipes.

The more I think about this, the seemingly endless amount of causes becomes apparent!

Ill keep hunting!

[loanrangie]

I drove that same section of road in an 85 3spd auto rangie on gas and it really struggled to climb so i know what you mean, havent tried it in the disco and not keen to go back there again - its a mean bit of road.

[Judo]

My initial thoughts were that you have a problem (possibly air intake/turbo related), which in turn is causing a secondary problem of overheating. Low on power, poor fuel economy, high EGT's are what makes me think that. But I could be wrong.

Do you have the factory temp gauge? Or an after market one? Anything abnormal?

And have you noticed any smoke? What colour? Lastly, being that it's a new pump, was it set to ~factory fueling, or was it "tweaked"?

[Flexual]

Factory temp gauge, seems to behave itself. I've got a coolant level sensor alarm too, which hasn't tripped in yonks. There is smoke, it's light in colour and noticeable at idle, heavier under throttle. More throttle, more smoke.
The pump, as far as I know was set to factory, but it was done 3rd party so I've really no idea. Hence wanting to find someone who knows how to tune them properly.

[Judo]

Unfortunately the factory temp gauge doesn't mean much. Won't move off the normal middle mark until it's past hot.

While getting into 600*C EGT's while pushing the engine hard is not bad in itself, it should only be while pushing hard.



It seemed to jump on and off boost (about 2.5-3k rpm in 2nd gear) which got me thinking that perhaps my injector pump needs a good tune or there is a turbo/intercooler issue.
I'm not very knowledgeable with cars so I'm obviously just speculating.

(snip)

On a mild incline, I can't accelerate beyond about 60-70k unloaded. (Me driving, one passenger with virtually no gear). I've only got a roof rack and a steel bar up front on standard size A/T tyres.



These 2 points don't seem right. I have slightly bigger tyres that push the engine a little more, but a mild incline is not that bad. Most "mild" hills I can maintain close to 100kms/h. (Unless our idea of mild is very different).

Anyway, let us know how you go.

[Smokaharma]

My disco was sluggish but not to that extent untill I recently replaced all my brake pads and it turns out I had a heap of silicone sludge in my brake lines and it was causing the pads to rub just enough to slow the disco down. We got all the sludge out and obviously slapped new pads in after stripping and cleaning the calipers and hey presto more power and beter fuel economy.

[libertyts]

I had huge issue with keeping pace up hills and keeping the EGT's down at the end of last year. Turns out I had a small hole in the lower intercooler pipe, which grew larger up until I replaced them with pretty new silicone ones.

I now have no issues keeping the temp down and the speed up! That would be the first place I would look.

When you say smoke is visible on idle, do you mean on startup or literally while it's sitting there idling? If it's while sitting and idling... That's not normal and could point to too much fuel from the pump, the "smoke screw" will be the culprit here most likely. This over fueling will definitely cause high EGT's and possibly the sluggish performance if the over fueling is at the more extreme end of the scale.

Only problem with these pumps if you don't know a whole lot about them is it can be difficult to tune them properly after someone has stuffed with it. It takes a lot of trial and error and a lot of patience. The EGT gauge will help you immensely in this task though.

I will give you an idea of my temps at the moment, I have a 300TDI with the "smoke screw" uping the fuel input down low by a reasonable amount (3 turns I think, but suspect it had been played with by previous owner). Driving on the flat on suburban roads I sit around 240 to 280. Add a decent hill maintaining 60/70 kph in 4th will see it climb to around 320 to 380 if this hill goes for say 2 to 4mins.

At 90/100 kph on the flat I maintain 340 to 380. Add a mild hill will see it rise to about 360 to 410. A relatively decent hill will push it to about 420 to 480. If I am towing say my 750 kg trailer fully loaded the latter would push out to maybe 480 to 580.

Bear in mind these are average figures while normally maintaining speed or dropping at most 10 to 15% speed. I personally don't like going over about 320 day to day in the suburbs and about 420 on the highway. These figures "feel" right to me by the way it drives.

I'm going to have more of a play with my pump soon, just need a boost gauge first so I can fiddle with boost at the same time if need be.

I hope this helps,

Chris

[luke68]

Drove the Mt Baw Baw rd on the long weekend with 4 adults and that same stretch. 2nd gear only (manual) about 40-45kms hr was the bast I could do. Std 300tdi disco with new silicone turbo hoses. Planning on going back fir some snowboarding when they have more snow. Will look at it again.

[Judo]

^ Agree completely with Chris, however I'll say that I reckon my "normal average" EGTs are 50-100 higher than yours. I can easily hit 500's up a hill on the freeway.

Interesting that you appear to have lower EGTs than me and you've tweaked your pump too. Have you increased boost at all?

What tyres are you running Chris?

[libertyts]

^ Agree completely with Chris, however I'll say that I reckon my "normal average" EGTs are 50-100 higher than yours. I can easily hit 500's up a hill on the freeway.

Interesting that you appear to have lower EGTs than me and you've tweaked your pump too. Have you increased boost at all?

What tyres are you running Chris?

Hey Justin,

No boost tweak at this stage (planned though). I'm running on 245/75R16's as I should have mentioned earlier. I have only tweaked the pump on the no to low boost with the so called "smoke screw." It gave me a little extra up and go off the line and a little better responsiveness.

I am generally fairly pedantic on keeping the temps low, so I try to make sure that if I can back off a little bit and still maintain speed I will. I found that my "sports\performance car" driving habits of previous cars caused me to just leave the go pedal at one spot up hill (maintaining a particular speed) without actually realising I could have let off a bit and still kept the same speed.

That is also one thing different between petrol and turbo diesels that I have noticed. Science and stuff shows that a throttle position closer to WOT (Wide-Open Throttle) in a higher gear in fact uses less fuel due to the greater intake of air. This is however not the case with our diesels as the throttle directly affects fuel flow rather than air flow. So a WOT condition in a diesel would see LOTS more fuel going in causing higher temps and higher fuel usage. So different driving styles needed for different cars. Something a lot of people don't always think about.

Sorry for the hijack, just an interesting tidbit. On the temps though, the temps I stated are generally for sticking with the "flat ground gear" and maintaining speed. A lot of the time I change gears\slow down these days, in my old age (25) I have mellowed a little and don't really worry about "being first" any more. One thing I always remind myself, if the temp is lower, so is the fuel usage!

Chris

[Flexual]

Thanks for the reply Chris,
Re: smoke, I get a good puff on start up but at idle I can see it, which makes me think it's an injector pump tuning problem - as you said. I had a quick feel around the turbo / intercooler hoses and they certainly feel a bit long in the tooth. I want to get some time under the bonnet this week.
I was also thinking that perhaps the engine timing is a little "late" which could cause unburnt fuel/white smoke as far as I know.

Interesting to hear you EGTs, impressively low! And in that note, I'm not sure I'm too confident opening up my injector pump, do you, or anyone, recommend a quality diesel tuner in Melbourne?

Thanks again for all your responses!

[Judo]

Hey Justin,

No boost tweak at this stage (planned though). I'm running on 245/75R16's as I should have mentioned earlier. I have only tweaked the pump on the no to low boost with the so called "smoke screw." It gave me a little extra up and go off the line and a little better responsiveness.

I am generally fairly pedantic on keeping the temps low, so I try to make sure that if I can back off a little bit and still maintain speed I will. I found that my "sports\performance car" driving habits of previous cars caused me to just leave the go pedal at one spot up hill (maintaining a particular speed) without actually realising I could have let off a bit and still kept the same speed.

That is also one thing different between petrol and turbo diesels that I have noticed. Science and stuff shows that a throttle position closer to WOT (Wide-Open Throttle) in a higher gear in fact uses less fuel due to the greater intake of air. This is however not the case with our diesels as the throttle directly affects fuel flow rather than air flow. So a WOT condition in a diesel would see LOTS more fuel going in causing higher temps and higher fuel usage. So different driving styles needed for different cars. Something a lot of people don't always think about.

Sorry for the hijack, just an interesting tidbit. On the temps though, the temps I stated are generally for sticking with the "flat ground gear" and maintaining speed. A lot of the time I change gears\slow down these days, in my old age (25) I have mellowed a little and don't really worry about "being first" any more. One thing I always remind myself, if the temp is lower, so is the fuel usage!

Chris
Same tyres as me... I hadn't seriously considered tweaking the pump until now, but if I can do it for only down low revs, I'm pretty keen! It's down low where I really feel the TDI lacks. I shall have to look into this.... :)

Flexual, sorry I don't know of a good diesel tuner. Try a search on the forums - I would guess that someone has asked that question before!

[libertyts]

Hey mate,

On these engines I'm fairly certain timing is not going to be your issue, they are fairly simple beasts and much different to a petrol engine where timing would put the spark in the wrong part of the cycle.

Are you saying the smoke on idle is white? If this is the case then there is some bigger problems with your engine. You are likely burning oil and if it's smoking visibly at idle, quite a lot of oil. You could have a head issue amongst other things. Sorry to be the doom and gloom king, but it is something you probably need to get looked at soon.

I'd love to offer my help, but obviously being in WA that's a little hard. I'm hoping someone from Vic will jump on here soon and offer a hand, to at least have a look. That's what we're about here as a community as far as I'm concerned.

I don't know any diesel tuners that I could recommend in Vic. There is an awesome one in Tassie! :p

If this is not the case then, the fuel pump is quite easy to adjust. There is a number of guides on here on how to go about it. I have a fairly comprehensive guide at home. So if you can't find something suitable for your knowledge/skill level let me know and I can send you a copy after work. One thing to keep in mind while working on the pump is to mark your stating points properly and write down EVERY change you make. If you don't, you will end up in all sorts of pain. The EGT gauge you have is essential for tuning the pump properly without breaking things. Only make small adjustments at a time and take the disco for a decent test drive (flat, small hills, big short hills, big long hills at varying speeds) after each change you make so you know what change does what for you in the end.

Chris

[freediver]

Factory temp gauge, seems to behave itself. I've got a coolant level sensor alarm too, which hasn't tripped in yonks. There is smoke, it's light in colour and noticeable at idle, heavier under throttle. More throttle, more smoke.
The pump, as far as I know was set to factory, but it was done 3rd party so I've really no idea. Hence wanting to find someone who knows how to tune them properly.

I had similar issues to you and it turned out to be the head. Maybe get your local shop to do a compression then an exhaust gas test on the overflow tank. They are both a cheap way to rule it out.

Mine was over heating under load and setting everything else off. After the new head I was getting better performance.

[Flexual]

Well the smoke isn't white per sè, but it's not very dark... And Yep I can see a bit at idle.
I'm hoping its not an oil burning problem, it's got a new head and gasket and I'm scared to think of pulling the bottom end apart!

I've got a guide on the injector pump, so I might start with basic torx adjustments first and see how I go. I've read countless horror stories of injector pumps being modified!

Re timing, surely fuel late delivery would cause issues?

In regards to a mechanic, I've had so many people look at it, and so many issues, I think I should just do it all myself! Or at least try:)

Thanks again:)

[freediver]

at the end of the day they are a 15yr+ old diesel. The fact it can go up Mt baw baw fully loaded is pretty spesh

[Flexual]

Haha well that's just it, It didn't make it up, and it was Unloaded!

[Judo]

Where in Melbourne are you? A few weeks back I made a spur of the moment purchase (regular occurrence for me) of a compression test kit if you want to give it a go.

What is the guide you have? I'm about to start searching for such a thing! Links are welcome. :)

While timing is possible, I think it's the last thing to check. Especially if this has only just started happening? Most of the other problems we're talking about are simpler and more likely. Start with them.

[Flexual]

I'm in Beaumaris (south east) . Don't go out of your way though, plenty I can still have a crack at yet!

It feels like it has been " developing" over time....
But that may be just my perception. Didn't notice anything happen at one particular time...

That's the link to the guide I'm reading through http://www.stonefisk.com/doc-arc/def_man/ThermoGuard_Tdi_Tuning_Rev.2.pdf

Cheers, Andrew

[libertyts]

Go with that guide. It's a good one. Ian has a wealth of knowledge and he has put a whole lot of into that guide!

Don't pay too much heed to the "horror stories" of pump tuning. Obviously don't make the mistakes other may have made in the past, but it's not the hardest or scariest thing you will ever do to your disco!

As I said before, make small adjustments and test after every change. Don't start working on it if you have a schedule to work with, you will end up rushing it and that's when things go wrong. Set aside a whole day to do it. It won't take you all day, but it will mean you can relax and just enjoy fiddling with your disco. Also, if you tell the missus it will take all day, then you have a really good excuse to do other things on your car when you finish the tuning early, she won't know the difference! :p

If you're unsure of something, take a picture of it, explain the issue and someone on here should be able to lead you in the right direction.

Chris

[Judo]

That guide is great. Stop screw adjustment sounds perfect. I don't care about losing a few metres up a hill on the freeway, but what peevs me is not being able to get going on a hill at take off. :twisted:

[freediver]

Well the smoke isn't white per sè, but it's not very dark... And Yep I can see a bit at idle.
I'm hoping its not an oil burning problem, it's got a new head and gasket and I'm scared to think of pulling the bottom end apart!

I've got a guide on the injector pump, so I might start with basic torx adjustments first and see how I go. I've read countless horror stories of injector pumps being modified!

Re timing, surely fuel late delivery would cause issues?

In regards to a mechanic, I've had so many people look at it, and so many issues, I think I should just do it all myself! Or at least try:)

Thanks again:)

just curious, did you re torque the head bolts roughly 1000ks after the new head went on?

[Flexual]

That guide is great. Stop screw adjustment sounds perfect. I don't care about losing a few metres up a hill on the freeway, but what peevs me is not being able to get going on a hill at take off. :twisted:

That's what I was thinking too - Any idea how to crack the top cap off? Im reluctant to bury a screwdriver in it!


just curious, did you re torque the head bolts roughly 1000ks after the new head went on?

The head was put on before I bought the vehicle, but I've blown the head/gasket since and had it fixed. I'm unsure if they were re-torqued the first time, and I'm certain they haven't been since I've had it.

The list of things to do/check is growing at a rapid rate :o


Go with that guide. It's a good one. Ian has a wealth of knowledge and he has put a whole lot of into that guide!

Don't pay too much heed to the "horror stories" of pump tuning. Obviously don't make the mistakes other may have made in the past, but it's not the hardest or scariest thing you will ever do to your disco!

As I said before, make small adjustments and test after every change. Don't start working on it if you have a schedule to work with, you will end up rushing it and that's when things go wrong. Set aside a whole day to do it. It won't take you all day, but it will mean you can relax and just enjoy fiddling with your disco. Also, if you tell the missus it will take all day, then you have a really good excuse to do other things on your car when you finish the tuning early, she won't know the difference! :p

If you're unsure of something, take a picture of it, explain the issue and someone on here should be able to lead you in the right direction.

Chris

Good advice :) I've already booked in the weekend!

[libertyts]

To get the cap off is fairly simple, just use one or two small screwdrivers (the larger of the jewelers ones are pretty well perfect) to slow lift it up around the edges bit by bit. It takes a little bit of fiddling at first but once it's up a few mm you will able to just grab it and pull it out.

Do be careful not to squash, dent or bend it all though as it's only a mild tin or something of the sort and unless you are going to replace it with something else you will cause some waterproofing issues for yourself.

As for the head bolts, that's a good point (should have picked up on that myself), check they are torqued correctly. Make sure you use a decent torque wrench, don't just tighten them down as hard as you can. Not saying you would be silly enough to, but have seen it done before. Also worth noting the order you should be torquing them up.

This is a link to the "Overhaul Manual" for the 300TDI http://www.landroverresource.com/docs/300TDi_Overhaul_Manual.pdf

Go to page 50 (it's actually written as page 28 on the page itself) and follow on from there over the next couple of pages for the information. I have attached a quick pic of the torquing sequence.

Chris

[Flexual]

Ah yep, sounds easy enough, thanks.
Regarding the head, it's a good point, as the symptoms of the blown head gasket I had a while back were similar to the ones I'm having now, though not nearly as severe...Thanks for the link too, very useful! I've got a lot to work through this weekend, lucky I booked out 2 days!

I was tinkering around in the engine bay tonight with what little light I had left after work, and found a couple of stray black rubber hose ends about 6mm diameter at the back of the engine - one on the air side, and one on the fuel side. They both look identical to the glowplug wiring sheathe (the one on the front most cylinder that daisy chains its away across the other 3. It was too dark to trace them though... Might need 2 weekends :p

[Flexual]

Ah yep, sounds easy enough, thanks.
Regarding the head, it's a good point, as the symptoms of the blown head gasket I had a while back were similar to the ones I'm having now, though not nearly as severe...Thanks for the link too, very useful! I've got a lot to work through this weekend, lucky I booked out 2 days!

I was tinkering around in the engine bay tonight with what little light I had left after work, and found a couple of stray black rubber hose ends about 6mm diameter at the back of the engine - one on the air side, and one on the fuel side. They both look identical to the glowplug wiring sheathe (the one on the front most cylinder that daisy chains its away across the other 3. It was too dark to trace them though... Might need 2 weekends :p
Ok so, I took it to get looked at. On the dyno, full diagnostics.

Results are:
Blown turbo compressor wheel
Injector pump not advancing
Injectors need replacing
Lift pump faulty
Exhaust collapse ??

I think it's going in the bin

[kreecha]

Ok so, I took it to get looked at. On the dyno, full diagnostics.

Results are:
Blown turbo compressor wheel
Injector pump not advancing
Injectors need replacing
Lift pump faulty
Exhaust collapse ??

I think it's going in the bin

G'day,
Sorry to read your above statement.

I would strongly suggest spending $250 more on your 300TDI. Get a new turbo cartridge from speedy turbo on eBay and fit it. It's fairly easy to fit.

Knowing what I now know about 300tdi injector's (I just got mine checked at 200k Km and the bosch agent in Darwin informed me that they are good for another 200k km), I doubt your injectors are stuffed.

If the turbo compressor wheel is blown (what does that mean eactly??!?!?!?! [are bits of it in the intercooler or is the seal leaking causing an over-fuelled state and rough idling and starting and high EGT's?]) then the dyno operator should be aware that the injection won't advance without boost anyway.

hmmm lift pump could be faulty.... they are abit dodgy in their fitness for service.

Anyway just some food for thought if I understand your scenario correctly.

Cheers.

[Judo]

Ok so, I took it to get looked at. On the dyno, full diagnostics.

Results are:
Blown turbo compressor wheel
Injector pump not advancing
Injectors need replacing
Lift pump faulty
Exhaust collapse ??

I think it's going in the bin
Crikey. Well, I am out of my league on most of those faults, but I struggle to see how you have so many serious faults and it's still running like it is. I would have a lot of questions.... Hopefully someone else can comment.

Did they show you, or provide any more detail?

[Flexual]

Thanks for that, yeah I thought the turbo fed a boost line to the pump which controls its advance...
They didn't say a whole lot over the phone but ill quiz them when I pick it up.
If it turns out that a new compressor wheel, exhaust and lift pump will keep her going another couple of years, ill look into it. Though I'm not too confident pulling a turbo apart...
Interesting what you say about the injectors.

Seems impossible to get a solid diagnosis on anything these days!

[Flexual]

Crikey. Well, I am out of my league on most of those faults, but I struggle to see how you have so many serious faults and it's still running like it is. I would have a lot of questions.... Hopefully someone else can comment.

Did they show you, or provide any more detail?

Well yeah you're right, it doesn't drive too badly, just sluggish and rough on start up!
I'll pick it up this arvo after work and try to pick their brains a bit.

[loanrangie]

Unless they are Landy specialists i would be reluctant to go by their diagnosis, if all that was wrong you would struggle to get out of the drive.

Exhaust collapse - you can tell by looking at it.
Injectors - rarely fail so may just need a clean.
Turbo - thats a possibility.
Lift pump - cheapest fix but they will run without one.
Injector pump - last thing i'd look at (read expensive so lets not start there). When was the belt last changed, could have jumped a tooth or 2.

[Flexual]

Not a Landy specialist.
The turbo sounds the most likely to me, so I'd like to find someone to look at who wont take me for a ride...
Ill replace the lift pump myself and was planning to upgrade the whole exhaust anyway.
They quoted 5k to fix it up... I'm thinking ill get it done for 1k or less:) hopefully....

[SouthOz]

When I bought my Disco I wanted to see how much boost it was developing so bought a cheap fuel pressure gauge and T piece and installed it into the pipe that goes from the turbo to the injection pump.
Just a thought on a cheap way to check if ya turbo is still working.

15 PSI Magnum Fuel Pressure Guage Avail IN RED OR Blue | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/15-PSI-MAGNUM-FUEL-PRESSURE-GUAGE-avail-in-red-or-blue-/180705101696?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2a12dd0780&_uhb=1)

Dave

edit. Mine ended up showing a spike of 15+ psi and a constant 14-15 at WOT so all was OK.

[Flexual]

Thanks dave, the test they did said it was putting out 14 psi. I didn't think that was terrible... Good tip though, cheers:)

[Judo]

Thanks dave, the test they did said it was putting out 14 psi. I didn't think that was terrible... Good tip though, cheers:)
They said the turbo was putting out 14psi, but the compressor wheel is blown? 14psi is (approx) max for a TDI. No need to be more accurate than that, it won't vary by more than 1 psi I wouldn't think. They have told you some very strange things IMO.

[Flexual]

Yeah that's what I'm thinking...
Feels like Ive achieved nothing!

I guess I'm learning more about the old girl at least:)

[libertyts]

Hey Mate,

These guys are having a laugh! As has been said, you wouldn't be driving if all that was gone. 14PSI with a blown turbo?!?!?! Serious? I'm failing to understand their logic here.

You are right, the turbo is a definite candidate for your issues, but if it IS actually putting out 14PSI I would be struggling to understand what would be wrong with it.

Also as has been said before, no boost, no advance. Exhaust collapse is a new one, not something I would have even dreamed up to be honest. Could cause issues, but it will be painfully obvious to look at.

If you suspect the injectors at all, it's easy enough to get them cleaned. There are a few mobile guys and others with workshops, if you can remove them and refit them yourself it will be cheaper. It's normally around $15 to $30 per injector.

Don't give up on the old girl though, they are great cars! On the turbo, it could be a good excuse to fit a VGT!! :eek::twisted::wasntme:

Good luck mate, hopefully you can have her sorted soon.

Chris

[pawl]

Just read this thread and you have nothing to worry about the smoke at start up, all 300tdi's do this as they start up rich to aid starting and mine also has visible smoke at idle, faint but visible. Mine used to run hot which also made the auto run hot because of a partially blocked radiator, I got it rodded out and that fixed the problem.
I was wondering if the pin that runs on the tapered shaft below the boost compensator diaphragm could be stuck or seized which would make it feel sluggish but I'm not sure if that would allow your egt's.
Re torqueing your head bolts, I'm not sure if you need to or should do that with the composite head gaskets, as the head bolts are torqued to spec and then turned a specified angle (60 deg?) but someone else may know the answer to whether you should or not.
14 psi is close to original spec, mine ran 13.5 standard, until I upped it to 18psi.
Have your valve clearances been checked lately?
Are there any restrictions on the air inlet side?
Injectors, well they could need a clean, they may not be atomising the fuel properly allowing a good burn of the fuel, they could be dribbling, or releasing fuel at too low a pressure. Does it smoke badly under load?

[Flexual]

Thanks for the reply Pawl,
Re the pump, I'm getting hot egts so I assume that it's getting fuel ok... But I'm sure there's more to it haha.
Have checked valve clearance in a long time so I'll do that. While the rocker cover is off I may as well check the torque on all the head bolts.
I'll clean the inter cooler, replace the the pipes, new exhaust... Then I'm pretty well out of ideas - and cash!

[Judo]

I'm with pawl on the head bolts. Don't touch them. The symptoms you're describing aren't a typical head gasket issue, so I would be hesitate to start playing with such things. If it ain't broken, don't fix it. You dont want to add to the list of problems. Part of the difficultly here might be that you have more than 1 problem... Adding more will make it a nightmare to diagnose.

Valve clearances are a good one.

Have you taken all the intake and turbo hoses off and looked inside them? I still say that's a easy and $free check before anything more serious. Blocked intake or blocked exhaust sound plausible, but I have no idea how an exhaust gets blocked. Intake hoses can come apart inside though.

[Flexual]

Yeah I took them off, cleaned them out. They seemed in tact, but I don't have a whole lot to compare them to. They did however feel "warn" or brittle. I'll be replacing them anyway. The main intake hose from the air filter to turbo looks like its being sucked in, as in, the walls of the hose are coming together. If that is a result of it being weak and not coping with the sucking force from the turbo, my guess is that will drastically reduce intake capability. Sound legit?

Need more time at home to actually get my hands dirty!!

Edit: re exhaust, I think the cat converter honeycomb can break down, but the aus diesels don't have one! (Afaik)

[libertyts]

Yeah I took them off, cleaned them out. They seemed in tact, but I don't have a whole lot to compare them to. They did however feel "warn" or brittle. I'll be replacing them anyway. The main intake hose from the air filter to turbo looks like its being sucked in, as in, the walls of the hose are coming together. If that is a result of it being weak and not coping with the sucking force from the turbo, my guess is that will drastically reduce intake capability. Sound legit?

Need more time at home to actually get my hands dirty!!

Mate, what you have there is a delaminated hose! This is quite likely a large portion of your issue. I was having high EGT's and seriously :censored: performance when I had intercooler\turbo hose issues (one of mine was starting to delaminate, the other had a hole). Swap them out with a decent set of silicone ones and you may find most, maybe even (hopefully) all of your issues gone!

The silicone hoses will stand up to a pretty damn good workout, plus, they are pretty to! I got mine from British 4WD in Tasmania via their Ebay store. They are reasonably priced and the shipping was quick. Three choices of colour as well from memory.

I cleaned my intercooler out with some carby cleaner at the same time as I did the hoses, wasn't heaps dirty, but the carby cleaner in the bucket at the end was still pretty dark.

Good luck,

Chris

[Flexual]

Thanks Chris I hope you're right!
I'll report back:)

[Judo]

^ x2!!!!

That hose is almost certainly the problem, quite possibly the entire problem.

Also, I will refer you to post #2 in this thread. :p

[Flexual]

Haha yeah yeah:p I did go through and inspect them at that point, but not really being aware of what to look for I guess I looked passed it. I didn't see any delamination, but without having seen it before, I wasn't what I did or didn't see.
The hose sucking in was only noticed this morning!

[Judo]

Yeah fair enough, I've never actually seen one either, just going on theory. Not long after I purchased my Disco I purchased a set of silicone hoses and haven't touched them since. They're not that much more expensive if you buy online, so I would definitely recommend them.

[Flexual]

Bought some silicone intercooler pipes, a new air box - turbo hose and getting a friend to give me a hand with the valve clearances and were going to put in a timing belt kit with all the peripherals.
Fingers crossed:)

Thanks for all of your help with this issue guys. It's great that you've all so willingly passed on your knowledge to such a green Disco owner!

[libertyts]

Just for future reference with this one. Flexual's issue is related to high EGT's rather than high head or water temps. Some of the suggestions, although well meaning and helpful, are a little misleading as they don't refer to the initial issue.

- Radiator: unlikely, he would have likely seen the needle hit hot if this was a problem
-Head bolts: again unlikely, other symptoms would be evident here, again a high water temp would be likely

This is obviously all my own opinion, but just thought I would point out that his issue from the outset appeared to be almost solely related to intake through to exhaust issue rather than anything else. No offence intended, just a point.

Hopefully those pretty new hoses get you sorted mate!

Chris

[Judo]

Just for future reference with this one. Flexual's issue is related to high EGT's rather than high head or water temps. Some of the suggestions, although well meaning and helpful, are a little misleading as they don't refer to the initial issue.

- Radiator: unlikely, he would have likely seen the needle hit hot if this was a problem
-Head bolts: again unlikely, other symptoms would be evident here, again a high water temp would be likely

This is obviously all my own opinion, but just thought I would point out that his issue from the outset appeared to be almost solely related to intake through to exhaust issue rather than anything else. No offence intended, just a point.

Hopefully those pretty new hoses get you sorted mate!

Chris
To put it another way - I think what you're saying is - change the hose and test drive before changing ANYTHING else...

?

[Flexual]

Well I'm not out of the woods just yet! Hoping for a good result though:)

I agree with the above sentiment too, keep it simple. I think I'd becom a little overwhelmed with the list of "potential" problems.

[Flexual]

So just a little update....

Did some work on it end of last week.

New timing belt kit (belt, gasket, pulley etc etc). The old one was was flogged. Whoever changed it last time seems to have a put the wrong pulley on - I think. It has a flange that stops the belt from coming off, this actually tore away at the belt and it was nearly ready to snap. So, all of it got replaced.

Reset tappet clearance. Some had too much, others too little.

Replaced the intercooler pipes with some silicone ones. Intercooler seemed clean enough and there was no oil or muck in the pipes but they 'feel' old.

Replaced 2 radiator hoses. We noticed a crack in one, and although it wasnt dropping water, it looked ominous. We pulled them out and found they were in terrible shape, they were basically collapsed inside, and was letting all sorts of gunk in to the cooling system - so we flushed it all out and replaced the hoses.

I have a new air intake pipe on the way. Had to order a new one from the UK so I'll fit that asap. The current one looks as if its being "sucked in".

Results so far are great. I took it up to Ballarat from Melbourne for a race (a mountain bike race) and it drove great. Was able to sit on 110 the whole way, but chose to sit on 100 and keep the revs from tipping 3k. Ran smooth, no smoke, I even over took someone going up a hill!
Whilst I've fueled up once, economy seems to be drastically improved. Previously to the work I was getting about 13-13.5L/100km, or 600-650km from an 80L tank. Im now sitting at half full with over 400km so far...

One thing I have noticed, just recently, the transmission feels pretty warm to the touch ie; the actual gear selector (1-2-3-D-R-P) where it disappears into the box. I've never really noticed it before... is that normal?

Anyway, happy so far, hopefully the air intake will show some improvement too. I'm not happy, however, with the diagnosis from AG Diesel and I'll be letting them know.

Cheers!

[Judo]

Sounds like some excellent results, good work!

I can't help you with the auto heat thing sorry.

[loanrangie]

So just a little update....

Did some work on it end of last week.

New timing belt kit (belt, gasket, pulley etc etc). The old one was was flogged. Whoever changed it last time seems to have a put the wrong pulley on - I think. It has a flange that stops the belt from coming off, this actually tore away at the belt and it was nearly ready to snap. So, all of it got replaced.

Reset tappet clearance. Some had too much, others too little.

Replaced the intercooler pipes with some silicone ones. Intercooler seemed clean enough and there was no oil or muck in the pipes but they 'feel' old.

Replaced 2 radiator hoses. We noticed a crack in one, and although it wasnt dropping water, it looked ominous. We pulled them out and found they were in terrible shape, they were basically collapsed inside, and was letting all sorts of gunk in to the cooling system - so we flushed it all out and replaced the hoses.

I have a new air intake pipe on the way. Had to order a new one from the UK so I'll fit that asap. The current one looks as if its being "sucked in".

Results so far are great. I took it up to Ballarat from Melbourne for a race (a mountain bike race) and it drove great. Was able to sit on 110 the whole way, but chose to sit on 100 and keep the revs from tipping 3k. Ran smooth, no smoke, I even over took someone going up a hill!
Whilst I've fueled up once, economy seems to be drastically improved. Previously to the work I was getting about 13-13.5L/100km, or 600-650km from an 80L tank. Im now sitting at half full with over 400km so far...

One thing I have noticed, just recently, the transmission feels pretty warm to the touch ie; the actual gear selector (1-2-3-D-R-P) where it disappears into the box. I've never really noticed it before... is that normal?

Anyway, happy so far, hopefully the air intake will show some improvement too. I'm not happy, however, with the diagnosis from AG Diesel and I'll be letting them know.

Cheers!

The flanged pulley is the correct upgraded part so you should have used that one, the belt tearing is probably because of the tensioner being too tight.

[Judo]

The flanged pulley is the correct upgraded part so you should have used that one, the belt tearing is probably because of the tensioner being too tight.
I could be wrong but from other comments I've read I believe there are 2 types of the upgraded pulley.

1. gear with lip tacked on.
2. single piece gear / lip.

1 is the cheaper because the lip can come off - as Flexual is saying I think?? - the other is single piece and obviously can't fall apart.

I stand to be corrected though.

[loanrangie]

Correct, one is cast as one piece and the other has the lip spot welded on, either way he should have used the lipped pulley.

[Flexual]

Yeah sorry, both pulleys have a flange. The one That was put on was solid, the old one looked tacked on. The belt was grinding against it and was wearing to the point where it was about to shred it self. It may well have been a tension issue, as the whole thing was a bit of a mess.... In any case, it's all new and running great!

[libertyts]

Hey mate,

Glad you got it all sorted! I to would be giving that garage a piece of my mind. I wouldn't be all that kind either!

Good luck with the last little bits.

Chris