Help needed with 2001 Def 130 td5 non start

[Daniel]

I have just acquired a 2001 Defender 130 td5.
It is ex NT Telstra with second battery etc.

It was blowing the main chassis fuse under the driver's seat.

I removed the second battery setup and now doesn't blow the fuse any longer however it just lights up the dash warning lamps and then does not engage the starter. The fuel pumps runs OK but no cranking of the motor.

When I hot wire the start solenoid direct it does not fire so it appears that the engine ECU is not asking the start motor to crank.

Any clues on what to do next?

[goingbush]

check the starter cable & trace it back to make sure it did not go to the 2nd battery.

Telstra had to modify their electrics because the additional equipment they istalled to run the telstra @road GPS tracking and Toughbook charger & other stuff really drained the battery very quickly, So its possible starter was rerouted to no2 battery

[Daniel]

check the starter cable & trace it back to make sure it did not go to the 2nd battery.

Telstra had to modify their electrics because the additional equipment they istalled to run the telstra @road GPS tracking and Toughbook charger & other stuff really drained the battery very quickly, So its possible starter was rerouted to no2 battery

Ok thanks - no the second battery was simply hard wired directly through an old fashioned solenoid to the original battery. As stated I can hot wire the starter motor solenoid and get it cranking but no fire into the injectors so it doesn't start. The problem is back in the ECU circuitry I suspect. One Falcon/Telstra modification that I haven't thus far removed is an headlamp relay that turns on the headlamps with the start key in running position. It is a system that one can over ride by turning the headlamp on and then off whilst the engine is running. I may have to get hold of a wiring diagram and remove that realy to get it all back to standard.

It is really odd as I drove the truck for 300 km and then it blew the 30 amp chassis fuse. I replaced it and it them ran OK for another 200 km. It then repeatedly blew that fuse until I reoved the second battery wiring but will not now crank.
o

[Daniel]

What differences are there between a 5 speed manual gearbox and transfer box between a V8 petrol Disco2 and a Defender 130 td5?
Do they both run R380 5 speed gearbox and LT230T tbox?
Are the gearbox ratios the same?
Are the tbox ratios the same?

[Old Rangie]

Daniel
Your post quite timely for me. I too have a 130 Td5 2000 model but ex Telstra NT. I have just spent 2 - 3 days on the side of the road (caravan park for comfort) fixing my headlight circuit and side lights. I am towing 20 ft van on my way to Hay River in Simpson. I had a good auto electrician spend a day on it only to find the problem reemerge 10 km up the road after we had fixed it.
One thing that may be of use is the conclusion we came to was the main wiring loom behind the bulkhead was where wires carrying heavy current had sweated joints and possibly melted insulation of adjacent circuit. I hot wired to headlight switch for head lights and run an battery isolation switch to turn of the park lights.
Also the duty in NT may also contributed to chaffing and wearing of insulation.
I removed the Falcon relay thing used to turn on lights when engine starts.
My aux battery was isolated with continuous rated 200 amp solenoid. (not cheap to replace but had to in Broken Hill). So far under the drivers seat has been okay for me apart from the oil in the ECU problem now fixed. Hope that helps cheers Old Rangie.

[jimr1]

What differences are there between a 5 speed manual gearbox and transfer box between a V8 petrol Disco2 and a Defender 130 td5?
Do they both run R380 5 speed gearbox and LT230T tbox?
Are the gearbox ratios the same?
Are the tbox ratios the same?
Hi Daniel I think you will find the bell housing on the v8 is different to the TD5 , also so could the imput shaft . If you have a TD5 R380 they could be changed over . The LT230t has a different Ratio due to running smaller wheels , It will work, giving you better cruising top end , It needs a bit more effort to take off , plus your speedo will be out . I hope this helps , Good luck jimr1 :)

[Daniel]

Hi Daniel I think you will find the bell housing on the v8 is different to the TD5 , also so could the imput shaft . If you have a TD5 R380 they could be changed over . The LT230t has a different Ratio due to running smaller wheels , It will work, giving you better cruising top end , It needs a bit more effort to take off , plus your speedo will be out . I hope this helps , Good luck jimr1 :)

Thanks Jim

So in summary both -

Defender td5 and D2 td5 run the R380 gearbox with the same gear ratios?
Defender td5 and D2 td5 run the LT230t transfer box with different ratios?

[Daniel]

Daniel
Your post quite timely for me. I too have a 130 Td5 2000 model but ex Telstra NT. I have just spent 2 - 3 days on the side of the road (caravan park for comfort) fixing my headlight circuit and side lights. I am towing 20 ft van on my way to Hay River in Simpson. I had a good auto electrician spend a day on it only to find the problem reemerge 10 km up the road after we had fixed it.
One thing that may be of use is the conclusion we came to was the main wiring loom behind the bulkhead was where wires carrying heavy current had sweated joints and possibly melted insulation of adjacent circuit. I hot wired to headlight switch for head lights and run an battery isolation switch to turn of the park lights.
Also the duty in NT may also contributed to chaffing and wearing of insulation.
I removed the Falcon relay thing used to turn on lights when engine starts.
My aux battery was isolated with continuous rated 200 amp solenoid. (not cheap to replace but had to in Broken Hill). So far under the drivers seat has been okay for me apart from the oil in the ECU problem now fixed. Hope that helps cheers Old Rangie.

Thanks for your help.

The light relay is cut into the wiring loom on the bulkhead engine side. Did you simply recut all the original wires and solder them up again?

Looks like I need to get hold of a wiring diagram and trace all the wires through properly as the headlamp relay is obviously connected to the start and ignition wiring loom.!

Surprisingly all of the wiring loom is otherwise in excellent condition and there is no sign of red bulldust anywhere on the vehicle.

[Psimpson7]

Thanks Jim

So in summary both -

Defender td5 and D2 td5 run the R380 gearbox with the same gear ratios?
Defender td5 and D2 td5 run the LT230t transfer box with different ratios?

Not quite, the Disco2 td5 has an LT230Q as opposed to the Defender which has the LT230T but there are a lot more possible differences between them.

R380 -


Different lever position between the Disco and Defender boxes, so even a D2 TD5 box is not a straight swap into a TD5 Defender. Its not a 5 minute job to swap the bits either

As has already been said there are more differences with the v8 box, having a different input shaft and bell housing (gearbox has to be stripped totally to change the input shaft) but it also has different ratios.


LT230

Possibly no centre diff (lock),
different ratio and gear sets,
possibly different front output hosuing (if it has no centre diff 'lock')
different speedo pickup so no drilling in the rear output housing on the D2 version.

There are probably other things as well.

[jimr1]

Thanks Jim

So in summary both -

Defender td5 and D2 td5 run the R380 gearbox with the same gear ratios?
Defender td5 and D2 td5 run the LT230t transfer box with different ratios?
Hi Daniel if you go to google , land rover discovery r380 gear boxes , or land rover defender r380 gearboxes that my help you with some of you questions , there is a lot of info there , ie. ratios ect. plus people that have asked , or delt with what your enquries are , I hope this helps ,cheers jimr1 :) ps . I'm not trying to fob you off it's just that there is so much info there .

[Daniel]

Not quite, the Disco2 td5 has an LT230Q as opposed to the Defender which has the LT230T but there are a lot more possible differences between them.

R380 -


Different lever position between the Disco and Defender boxes, so even a D2 TD5 box is not a straight swap into a TD5 Defender. Its not a 5 minute job to swap the bits either

As has already been said there are more differences with the v8 box, having a different input shaft and bell housing (gearbox has to be stripped totally to change the input shaft) but it also has different ratios.


LT230

Possibly no centre diff,
different ratio and gear sets,
possibly different front output hosuing (if it has no centre diff)
different speedo pickup so no drilling in the rear output housing on the D2 version.


There are probably other things as well.

Thanks - but...
"no centre diff" - no such thing - every LandRover since the S3 stage 1 has had a centre diff.
both D2 and Def td5 run the same electronic speedo setups so why would they have different housings?

[alien]

Thanks - but...
"no centre diff" - no such thing - every LandRover since the S3 stage 1 has had a centre diff.
both D2 and Def td5 run the same electronic speedo setups so why would they have different housings?
"No centre diff" is most likely hinting that some of the D2's centre diffs couldn't be locked.

The D2's get their speedo reading from the wheel censors.
There is no speedo gear set up in the t'box.

[Psimpson7]

Thanks - but...
"no centre diff" - no such thing - every LandRover since the S3 stage 1 has had a centre diff.
both D2 and Def td5 run the same electronic speedo setups so why would they have different housings?

I omitted the work lock by mistake, I have amended my post. The speedo pickup issue has been clarified above for you as well in more detail.....

[jimr1]

My TD5 disco 2 had no linkage ,to lock centre diff in side ! I used to lay under it and turn the diff shaft that stuck out of the top of the t/box with a 10mm open ended spaner , it was easy onlt 1/4 turn job done,same to reverse . The later discos had the linkage put on the lever on in the inside .

[Daniel]

My TD5 disco 2 had no linkage ,to lock centre diff in side ! I used to lay under it and turn the diff shaft that stuck out of the top of the t/box with a 10mm open ended spaner , it was easy onlt 1/4 turn job done,same to reverse . The later discos had the linkage put on the lever on in the inside .

yep, I used to do that on my D2 as well until I got sick of the mud.
Made up a simple pin linkage through a small hole in the transmission tunnel straight down onto the diff lock selector.
A quick flick of the finger and it was locked.

[Daniel]

Thanks for your help.

The light relay is cut into the wiring loom on the bulkhead engine side. Did you simply recut all the original wires and solder them up again?

Looks like I need to get hold of a wiring diagram and trace all the wires through properly as the headlamp relay is obviously connected to the start and ignition wiring loom.!

Surprisingly all of the wiring loom is otherwise in excellent condition and there is no sign of red bulldust anywhere on the vehicle.

Ok an update - still no luck with cranking the td5.

We have traced the problem to a lack of -ve 12v being supplied to the crank relay - this -ve feed is meant to be delivered by the EMS based on advice from the 10AS. My HawkEye tells me that the td5 immobiliser is set as secure and that the circuit is open. Not sure what this means??

[Daniel]

I finally got to the bottom of this issue!

A previous owner/electrician had fitted an after market immobiliser in behind the instrument panel. I removed it and joined all of the wires back together again and hey presto it now cranks over and starts.

Now just need to remove the CoLo (car on lights on) relay and all will be back to LR std wiring.