Series Brake Bleeding

[Series3 GT]

Ok, I'm sick of not having brakes on my farm IIA. It takes 5 or more pumps to get some brakes, I've replaced all the shoes with better ones (new rear, meaty secondhand ones of my III on front) replaced all the leaking brake lines, replaced all seals in slave cylinders and bled the brakes conventionally starting at the one furthest away working my way back to the closest wheel. No visible leaks anywhere, I've heard of pressure bleeding pushing air through the wheel back up and out the reservoir. Any advice much appreciated!

[JDNSW]

First step would be to identify where the problem(s) is/are. Clamp off all three brake hoses - you should now have a solid pedal with no movement at all. If you cannot get this by bleeding if necessary at every joint back to the masteer cylinder, then the master cylinder has to be suspect.

Then release and bleed each of the three clamped off sections one at a time. When bleeding, pump the pedal vigorously, to ensure air bubbles are carried along with the fluid.

There are also mechanical problems which may appear to be bleeding problems - incorrect assembly, snail adjusters that are worn smooth and won't stay put, incorrect pushrod adjustment on the master cylinder, and probably others I can't think of at the moment.

John

[Blknight.aus]

you may have the leading trailing setup tail end around as well as US snail cams.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/45792-stage-1-county-defender-perentine-brake-warning.html

try there for some hints

[isuzurover]

I assume you have removed pedal free play?

Adjust the shoes so the wheels are locked solid. If there is no air in the system the brake pedal will also be hard.

In many/most cases it is an adjustment issue.

[andy_d110]

We have just spent ages and ages trying to bleed up an early Series 2 with the CB type master cylinder.

Had success in the end with a pressure bleeder and driving up a steep hill to move the bubbles...

Here's an idea for a cheap pressure bleeder;

The DIY $20 brake bleeder (http://faculty.ccp.edu/faculty/dreed/campingart/jettatech/bleeder/)

Good luck!

[JDNSW]

While I have never had to do this with any brakes (but have clutch), it is possible, in fact easy, to reverse bleed brakes using an oil syringe (new or thoroughly cleaned of any traces of oil!).

I agree with isuzurover that in many cases it is likely to be a mechanical rather than bleeding issue.

John

[Series3 GT]

Thanks everyone, I'm very confident that it's air because we've adjusted all the snail cams up and the pedal goes straight to the floor. Sometimes the front left wheel will just lock up because the snail cam has adjusted itself but all you need to do is reverse a bit or back the adjuster off cause they are worn but that's not the problem. There's lots of air in the system because when I last bled it, it ran low enough in the reservoir:wasntme: (stupid mistake that I never had a problem with before) to let lots of air in, before that I bled the brakes multiple times and it wouldn't get a decent pedal, the closest I got was 3 pumps and the rears would lock up because I clamped the front 2 off. I think I might try reverse bleeding first as something different. I tried the trick of parking it on a really steep hill overnight with the cap off but nothing happened.

[chazza]

I have had success twice on two 2A's, by stamping on the pedal as hard as I could, whilst bleeding the brakes; this was a tip found in the 2A handbook.

I think the velocity of the fluid must be the reason why the air trapped at all the high points gets pushed out. All of the brake cylinders need to be in perfect condition of course,

Cheers Charlie

[GaryFrank]

I normally connect a 6mm fish tank air line on the bleed nipple and take it all the way back to the master cylinder...great if there's no one to pump for you and you get all the air out.
Another trick is to smear copper-slip on the bleed nipple threads and not to open them all the way..
Fit lock plates to the snails and slip a piece of pipe over the pins that the snails act on...

[ezyrama]

Try making one of these up, you have to seal the hoses through the lid with silicone though. I use it whenever I need too and it works a treat.

[Johnno1969]

I won't reinvent the wheel, as pretty much all's been said already - but may as well add a little technique which has been of use to me at times. As things can sometimes be a little fickle in the mechanical adjustment department (and this can compromise effectiveness of bleeding), it can help to isolate the hydraulic pressure/air issue completely first by placing G-clamps on each wheel cylinder and then bleeding. Once satisfied that no air is in the lines (and of course the master cylinder pushrod has to be adjusted correctly and everything in good condition), then move on to connecting up the rest of the brake components and go from there.

Cheers,

John

[Series3 GT]

Thanks everyone for the info, I discovered that the rear right slave cylinder is leaking fluid cause there's brake fluid all over the wheel after I've pumped the brakes and I can't get any pedal no matter how much I pump, so I'm going to fix that and try these tips out and let everyone know how it goes.

[ian4002000]

I was having trouble bleeding my brakes on my series 2. All appeared ok but pedal nearly went to floor ....
I read somewhere that the fix is to turn all snails cams until wheels locked and then bleed brakes again, then back snails off 1-2 notches on each wheel.
I did as suggested and brakes where much better immediately !!!!

[Series3 GT]

I have brakes! Finally I get brakes on the first pump which is good enough for me, on the second pump it locks the rears and pulls to the left so I just have to remember that and hold on to the wheel to stop the rear overtaking the front:p I used a combination of pumping the pedal really hard and fast and also trying to open the bleed nipple really fast to get the fluid to shoot out fast instead of just dribble. Thanks everyone for the advice.

[geodon]

Seeing it's a paddock car, why not use a vice grip to isolate the leaky cylinder?

If the locking rears is the worst problem, why not isolate them by clamping the rear rubber hose? The rears contribute SFA to the braking anyway!

[angus1]

My Series 3 was giving me a hard time bleeding the brakes after a complete retube. After trying pressurising the master cylinder with a bottle and pump and getting soaked with brake fluid, as a last resort got T and S to help. Still no good, so got a balloon from Coles ($1 a packet of ten) cut the end off and stretched it over the reservoir. Wrapped some electrical tape around it and filled the thing with a syringe thingee from Supercheap. Blew into the balloon and clipped it off with one of those bag clips from the kitchen. Then went round the wheels opening the nipple with a clear pipe on the end to see the bubbles. Daft as it sounds it worked ! I could do two wheels before filling the tank and blowing up the balloon again so it only took a few minutes to do, apart from jacking up one end at the time. Total cost 10 cents for one ballloon. I have a single system with a CV master cylinder so it may not have enough pressure to do dual system.

[Series3 GT]

Seeing it's a paddock car, why not use a vice grip to isolate the leaky cylinder?

If the locking rears is the worst problem, why not isolate them by clamping the rear rubber hose? The rears contribute SFA to the braking anyway!

Locking rears isn't the worst problem really, it's worse to have no brakes. I tried to vise grip trick before on the fronts and it work until the front brake lines split from having the vise grips and having just the rears lock on wet grass was suicidal.

Angus1- As for jacking up each wheel I've found a far quicker and easier way of getting one end of the vehicle of the ground, I use a John Deere front end loader, unfortunately not everyone has one but they do a great job of lifting one end at a time.

[angus1]

I like the idea of a John Deere tractor but the wife wouldn't agree. I'd probably do all the gardening with it! Fixed the gearbox gate on one in the States then had fun shovelling horse s**t about the yard, great fun. Found a bobcat handy for changing the engine of my Kombi useful too, but then i am a lazy bugger. I'll have to try the bleeding trick on my D1 when I get time, struggling with the idea of replacing the headlining at the moment.

[ezyrama]

I have the CB type cylinder, I got an my fluid tin lid and drilled and mounted a 1/4 male flare adapter through the lid, put a 1/4" tail off the top and connected an air hose from the compressor to it. The booster was blocked internally so I had to bypass that temporarily and pressure bled the whole system fairly quickly until the passenger flexible hose (I clamped off earlier) split in two :mad:. replaced that and bled it again, all good until I can time to re build the booster.

[Series3 GT]

I like the idea of a John Deere tractor but the wife wouldn't agree. I'd probably do all the gardening with it! Fixed the gearbox gate on one in the States then had fun shovelling horse s**t about the yard, great fun. Found a bobcat handy for changing the engine of my Kombi useful too, but then i am a lazy bugger. I'll have to try the bleeding trick on my D1 when I get time, struggling with the idea of replacing the headlining at the moment.
They are quite useful for more than just farming, you can do the gardening, lift heavy vehicle parts and vehicles if you wish and mess up someones lawn with ease:p I used it to lift the entire body off my Range Rover, take the tub off my Series 3, pull the motor and gearbox out of the Series 3 and move around my old 202 motor which is sitting in the shed doing nothing cause it's got a broken piston.

ezyrama- I had the same problem with my IIA, I've bled the brakes millions of times and every time a hose would split or a seal would start leaking and it would be a constant problem replacing broken brake lines:mad: