Ford 289 overheating problem

[Ean Austral]

Gday All,

I have fitted a 289 V8 to my XR ute, and since fitting it and starting it , the engine is getting to 100deg within 5 mins at idle.

I pulled the water pump and looks good,
New Radiator, and hoses.
Removed to hose and plenty of water flow, so am sure water pump is pumping, did notice that the new thermostat wasn't opening till near 100deg, so removed that and it dropped back to about 91-92 degrees.

The engine timing seems fine using the timing light, and am sure that the valve clearances are fine especially seeing they are hydrolic.

I don't think its a head gasket, but can only go on the word of the person I bought it from. Engine cranks easy , fires and idles and revs good.

Anyone got any ideas on things to check before I decide on whether to pull the heads off.

I haven't taken it for a spin to see if it drops, but would be worried if I ever got stuck in traffic if the temp rises that quick.

Thanks and Cheers Ean

[bobslandies]

Hi Ean,

Could be retarded and as you have not driven the car on the road the timing could still be out.

You can check to be sure that TDC on the piston is what you see on the Harmonic Balancer. Turn the engine to TDC on No 1 lead firing position, remove the plug and put a lead pencil into the plug hole - rock the crank back and forward to see the pencil move up and down and determine where TDC is in relation to the Balancer/pointer. That will be a proper check.

Some balancers can have the outer section slip relative to the inner attached to the crankshaft, particularly if they get contaminated with oil from leaks. They are unpredictable and can move intermittently.

Bob

[justinc]

Was the engine rebuilt Ean? Higher compression? Too lean? - What carb etc. The first things that spring to mind are as mentioned not enough advance, tight engine, leanness?

The 91 degrees, is that with the thermostat removed? Do you have a fan shroud? At idle in reasonably high ambient temps with a tight engine then it will run hotter without airflow through the rad.

JC

[Ean Austral]

Was the engine rebuilt Ean? Higher compression? Too lean? - What carb etc. The first things that spring to mind are as mentioned not enough advance, tight engine, leanness?

The 91 degrees, is that with the thermostat removed? Do you have a fan shroud? At idle in reasonably high ambient temps with a tight engine then it will run hotter without airflow through the rad.

JC

Gday Justin,

No I did a big end bearing change, but that's all. The Carby is the one that came with the engine, its a 4brl autolite carby.

The engine would go to 100 easily with the thermostat in , but a noticeable drop to 91 with it removed. I only removed it because no water was coming from the top hose until it got above 95 degrees, so assumed it was faulty.

I have driven the car 50 mtrs or so, and using a timing light at idle engine timing is 6" BTDC as the manual states.

I am sure that I have the timing right as I had to fit the dissy, so if I got it that wrong I assumed it wouldn't have fired correctly from the start.

The engine rotated freely after doing the bearing change and refitting the sump.

Cheers Ean

[bee utey]

What sort of fan and shroud are you running? You should get a solid blast of hot air off the fan at say 2000rpm with the engine at 90C. I've found that traditional engine fans don't work too well if they are too deep in the shroud. I used to fit 2" shorter fan spacers to P76's with similar problems, made a big difference.

[mudmouse]

Great little engine.

This may be a waaaaay long shot, but I 'built' one up from a long motor and bought a water pump (unknowingly) for a late model 302 - fitted, but the 302 ran a serpentine belt spinning the pump in the opposite direction and not circulating any fluid efficiently = rapid and sustained high temps.

So, has it got a new water pump on it?

Other than a blockage in a gallery somewhere, I'm buggered if I know.

All the best,

Matt.

[Ean Austral]

What sort of fan and shroud are you running? You should get a solid blast of hot air off the fan at say 2000rpm with the engine at 90C. I've found that traditional engine fans don't work too well if they are too deep in the shroud. I used to fit 2" shorter fan spacers to P76's with similar problems, made a big difference.

It has the fan that came with the engine its an 8 blade fan that runs from a single pulley, so 1 single belt, no air con, just turns waterpump and alternater. I haven't installed the shroud yet as been trying to find 1 after I run over the last 1 and destroyed it... by accident of course...

Cheers Ean

[bobslandies]

What sort of fan and shroud are you running? You should get a solid blast of hot air off the fan at say 2000rpm with the engine at 90C. I've found that traditional engine fans don't work too well if they are too deep in the shroud. I used to fit 2" shorter fan spacers to P76's with similar problems, made a big difference.

Apparently the ideal position is that the fan is about fifty/fifty in the shroud. That is what I was told when making a shroud to fit a 302 Windsor GS in my Series station wagon.

Bob

[bee utey]

Apparently the ideal position is that the fan is about fifty/fifty in the shroud. That is what I was told when making a shroud to fit a 302 Windsor GS in my Series station wagon.

Bob
I've experimented quite a bit with this. Straight tip fans can be 90-100% out of the shroud, bent tip fans not so much. Straightening out bent tip fans makes them noisier but far more powerful.

[Ancient Mariner]

Maybe missed it did any one sugest the gauge ?

[Ean Austral]

Maybe missed it did any one sugest the gauge ?

2 gauges , 1 mechanical , 1 electric both within 1 degree of each other. Plus the steam coming off the rad is a bit of a give away.:)

Cheers Ean

[Tank]

Ean a shroud will help, are you using coolant in the water, try a new thermostat and radiator cap, check hoses aren't collapsing. If that doesn't help go to your local radiator place get them to do a thorough flush of the block and radiator, is the radiator a six cylinder or V8 one, big difference. If the engine was imported from USA esp. if from Northern States where it snows, water left in the block can freeze and crack the bores, usually at the crankcase end and usually at one end of the block, depending which way the engine was sitting, check to see if you are getting any water in the oil. That should keep you busy for a while, let us know how it goes, Regards Frank.

[Vern]

I used to have to run both my Windsor and clevo's without a thermostat, only way I could get them to run cool enough.

[Ean Austral]

Ean a shroud will help, are you using coolant in the water, try a new thermostat and radiator cap, check hoses aren't collapsing. If that doesn't help go to your local radiator place get them to do a thorough flush of the block and radiator, is the radiator a six cylinder or V8 one, big difference. If the engine was imported from USA esp. if from Northern States where it snows, water left in the block can freeze and crack the bores, usually at the crankcase end and usually at one end of the block, depending which way the engine was sitting, check to see if you are getting any water in the oil. That should keep you busy for a while, let us know how it goes, Regards Frank.

Gday Frank,

The engine came out of a mustang that has been in Brisbane for 20 yrs maybe longer, the code on the block is its a 63 build.

I bought a new radiator, supposedly for 289/302W V8 as the fittings on the Rad are both drivers side. I looked back at my receipt and it says V8 Ford Radiator, but in physical size it doesn't seem any bigger than the 6 cyl rad that came out.

I have run the engine with the top hose removed and a hose filling the rad and the water pump is pumping plenty of water, so am confident its not that, have no traces of water, or condensation in the oil, or visa versa, so am very confident its not a head gasket.

The temp rises just steadily, its not just a big jump, like my D1 when it done a head gasket.

The hoses and rad cap are all new, exhaust system is new, and the engine is at idle at 550 rpm and timing is at 6* BTDC all as the manual states is correct.

Carby is a 4brl autolite that according to the manual I have was standard on the 289 mustang V8.

I am unsure about the rad cap, but it came new supplied with the rad, but when the car is hot, no water comes out the small overflow, which when you hear the bubbling I thought some would come out due to the expansion. I have run it with coolant, with the thermostat in and out and still the same result. 10 minutes max before the gauges are at 100 deg with the car sitting at idle.

I have put a flush thru the system, but am going to remove the rad and might take it to the local place and ask if they can check it. I can feel air being drawn thru the rad if I put my hand on the front,

Maybe I got sent a 6 cyl one by mistake.

Cheers Ean

[bee utey]

It sounds a bit like a 3.9 D1 that I once worked on. It ended up being a scaly blockage at the back of one of the heads so that water flow seemed normal but it was all through one bank only.

If you remove the water pump can you back flush the block one side at a time?

[Tank]

What Bee utey says could be right a build up of rust scale can impede not only water flow but heat transfer as well, if this is the case you might have to eventually knock out the side (block) welch plugs and get a probe in there and break up the scale, I dont know of a store bought rust remover that would do the job. A local rad. bloke might have something that could get rid large scaly bits of rust that can block water transfer holes. Windsor blocks don't normally run hot, I'll do some reading up on the water jacket and head cooling system on the 289 and get back to you, Regards Frank.

[rovercare]

If it gets hot idling it's air movement, excluding any mechanical issue, head gasket etc, if it gets hot driving at 100, it's water movement

Good fan, good shroud set up correctly

Put a new t/stat in, check it in a pot of water and thermometer first

People always underestimate the fan/shroud setup importance

[Ean Austral]

Gday All,

May have had some success, Done this today,

Removed radiator and flushed with hose for about 15 mins, new radiator and nothing odd came out but had to try.
Removed waterpump Flushed both sides of block for ages, and never really seen any crap or crud come out, removed thermostat and tested all ok, flushed block from thermostat housing.

Re-installed everything and run with top hose off and hose just running into radiator, then hooked up top hose and used different radiator cap and the car got to 82 degree at idle for 15 mins.

Personally I think it may have been the cap, but not sure.

Have ordered a fan shroud and will install it as well.

Many thanks to all who replied.

Cheers Ean

[scarry]

Good fan, good shroud set up correctly


People always underestimate the fan/shroud setup importance

Very important,ask any fridgie/Ac tech........;)
Any propeller fan looses it's efficiency when not positioned correctly in it's correct shroud.

[LandyAndy]

Possibly was an air lock Ean,and its now free.
GOODLUCK and ENJOY
Andrew