19 fire fighters dead in one fire -USA

[digger]

News is emerging of 19 Firefighters that have died in a bushfire in ARIZONA, the fire fighters were members of the aviation fire fighting service. This loss virtually wipes out their fire fighting strength.

The fire continues unabated.

Thoughts and prayers are with families and friends.


Arizona Wildfire 2013: 19 Firefighters Die While Battling Yarnell Hill Blaze (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/30/arizona-wildfire-yarnell_n_3526934.html)


(Reuters) - Nineteen firefighters were killed battling a fast-moving wildfire menacing a small town in central Arizona, the U.S. Wildland Fire Aviation service said on Sunday.
The firefighters perished in the so-called Yarnell Hill Fire, near the small town of Yarnell about 80 miles northwest of Phoenix, the agency said in a Facebook post.
"It has been confirmed that 19 wildland firefighters have lost their lives on the Yarnell Hill fire Arizona," the post said, adding that the agency was asking "for prayers for the families and friends of these brave men and women."
No immediate details on the circumstances of the firefighters' deaths were provided.
The blaze has charred about 1,000 acres of tinder-dry chapparral and grasslands since erupting Friday amid heat wave conditions baking the Southwest, prompting the evacuation of scores of homes near Yarnell.
The Daily Courier Prescott newspaper said the dead were members of the Prescott Fire Department's Granite Mountain Hotshots team. The newspaper put the death toll at 18, citing reports from the fire department.

[PeterM]

What a hell of a way to go.
Thoughts are with the department and families.

[V8Ian]

That's shocking.

[incisor]

sounds like their emergency shelters need a revamp..

terrible loss of lives....

[digger]

sounds like their emergency shelters need a revamp..

terrible loss of lives....

If they are the ones I think they are theyre basically a sleeping bag type set up of silver fire curtain, I think they all carry them over there now.

Its a probably 8 or 9' long 'bag' opens up like a body bag, they hop in, roll face down holding sides in with tabs and wait for fire to pass over.. They are an extreme last resort thing...

If it is these shelters, and the fuel load is high, the heat itself and the smoke is likely to kill those involved... a terrible way to go.

I am not sure however that it is those type. But theyre commonly carried.

[jimr1]

We're all used to Bush fires here in OZ. Hearing this news from the us is just as tragic . My thoughts are with this Comunity at this very sad time . jim1.

[KarlB]

Eighteen of the 19 killed were an Interagency Hotshot Crew (Granite Hills Hotshots). Such crews typically have 20-22 members. There are about 110 such crews operating across the USA. Only one member of the Hotshot Crew survived. A great loss, and very sad indeed.

KarlB
:(
PS See Interagency Hotshot Crews (http://www.fs.fed.us/fire/people/hotshots/IHC_hist.html); http://firecritic.com/2013/06/30/lodd-18-prescott-az-granite-mountain-hotshots-firefighters-dead-in-yarnell-hill-fire/

[bob10]

19 fire fighters lost. A terrible cost to pay. I feel for their families, & their community. Never having heard of this type of fire fighting, I googled it. Apparently they walk in, sometimes parachute in , with backpacks full of gear, [ chainsaws, etc] to clear fire breaks , very fit, dedicated. Brave men. The only question I ask is, why aren't the fire breaks cleared , and the area back burned by the relevant councils, before the fire season, and why send in brave men whose only escape is by foot, or have to resort to using safety gear not up to the task. A flawed concept, I would suggest. Bob

[33chinacars]

Flame jumpers are the bravest of the brave. A very sad loss. This will be felt by all firefighters world wide. Special prayers for these brave men & women and their families & friends.

I salute you my brothers in arms

Gary ( CFA vol )

[42rangie]

Associated with fire service since I was a teen. R.I.P. my brothers.

Les

[Bushie]

sounds like their emergency shelters need a revamp..

terrible loss of lives....

Unfortunately that's what they are - an "emergency shelter" basically a last resort. If the fires intense enough they won't be able to provide the protection.

Conditions on the day must have been pretty extreme, Arizona is currently in the middle of an extreme heat wave, (Death Valley forecast was for 57deg/135F) even todays forecast is for temps around 50deg.

It's the worse disaster in US wildland firefighting since the Storm King mountain fire in 1994.
Will wait for the findings to come out.

I have lots on sympathy for the families and other firefighters in this situation.


Martyn

[numpty]

Very sad indeed and I can only reiterate what others have said.

My thoughts go out to all those affected, be they family, friends or fellow firefighters.

We trialled something similar, albeit a type of crew shelter in the '80s, after tragic events in the Shire.

[shorty943]

My thoughts and prayers to the guys that were lost, and to their families and friends and fellow firefighters across the world.
Like many I have been a volunteer fire and rescue man since my teen years, so as all here, I fell the loss sadly.

[Barefoot Dave]

Bloody sad day.
The SF of the Fire world...
Our thoughts and love to all the families and friends
BDave.

[reubsrover]

19 fire fighters lost. A terrible cost to pay. I feel for their families, & their community. Never having heard of this type of fire fighting, I googled it. Apparently they walk in, sometimes parachute in , with backpacks full of gear, [ chainsaws, etc] to clear fire breaks , very fit, dedicated. Brave men. The only question I ask is, why aren't the fire breaks cleared , and the area back burned by the relevant councils, before the fire season, and why send in brave men whose only escape is by foot, or have to resort to using safety gear not up to the task. A flawed concept, I would suggest. Bob

Hi Bob I noted your post about the tragedy in Arizona a while back and have been meaning to reply. I thought I'd mention that we do the same thing in Australia too. Fortunately perhaps for a number of reasons we've never seen the same level of tragedy as America has, notably 1949, and 1994 but that's not to say we never will if the right events combine it could just as easily happen here.

As for your question, I will try to answer it. On a bad day a fire break doesn't stop a fire that is spotting potentially kilometers in front of itself, that's just one method of many that must be used to combat wildfire. Backburning or fuel reduction burns is another, it's highly politicized though and you can't burn every square piece of bush every five or six years which is probably how often it would have to be done to keep fuel loadings low enough to make a difference so you'll still get fires somewhere.

Finally the concept of firefighters on foot is not flawed (in bad conditions it is but I won't comment on specifics), in Australia we do not even rely on 'shelters' that the Americans use for the simple reason we aim to never be in that kind of situation. Perhaps having a fire shelter does give a little bit more bravado but they have saved lives and I'm not going to argue either way on that point. What I do know is that in order to put fires out in a timely manner with minimal risk hand crews have always and must be used. Often the type of country we work in is inaccessible to any vehicle (even dozers) and the only practical and sensible option is to keep the fire small. In the end though we're dealing with nature and it's unpredictable if wind and steep terrain combine tragedy can happen in an instant. Within minutes one can go from working a small tame fire to running from an inferno if the right conditions combine an occurrence which fortunately is rare.

I've been doing this kind of thing for the past six summers, sadly for some reason the public never hears about what we do, firefighting in the mind of the public is thought of as always on trucks or in an urban environment.

Although I don't like to comment prematurely I think the most obvious initial lesson from this fire is not to let a fire burn if it can be at all helped. I personally believe we most firefighting agencies) are just not aggressive enough in initial attack of fires and the Yarnell fire is a case in point. It was left for a number of hours (reported late afternoon and not attacked until the next day) before initial attack and then it was still not respected. I'm not familiar with the events leading up to the Canberra firestorm but again those fires burned for a number of days before the 'event' which is often the case.

In 2006 when our family home was threatened by fire late on a Sunday afternoon near the Grampians it wasn't a new fire. The fire had been burning since Thursday night and though attacked aggressively was not extinguished. Two civilians were killed. So often it's a fire that could have potentially been put out (certainly not always the case) that turns deadly. In 1994 when 14 firefighters died the fire had burned for a number of days in remote terrain with ample opportunity for one firefighter crew to put it out.

I'm just not convinced we're doing enough to put the fires out early in many instances.

If anyone is interested in learning more John Maclean (http://johnmacleanbooks.com/) provides not just education but a absorbing tale of Wildfire in his four books. His father's (Norman) book on the Mann Gulch fire is also worth a read.

Here's an initial in depth look at Yarnell.

Evidence mounts that Granite Mountain Hotshots shouldn't have deployed (http://www.tucsonsentinel.com/local/report/082113_yarnell/evidence-mounts-that-granite-mtn-hotshots-shouldnt-have-deployed/)


The Yarnell Hill fire was ignited about 5:40 p.m. on Friday, June 28, by lightning strikes during one of the season’s first monsoon thunderstorms. Along with a cascade of lightning, such early-season storms typically pack high winds and little moisture.

Arizona dispatch logs show that fire managers determined the fire was “inactive” and “not much of a threat.” The state took no action to put it out the night it started.

[bob10]

I've been doing this kind of thing for the past six summers, sadly for some reason the public never hears about what we do, firefighting in the mind of the public is thought of as always on trucks or in an urban environment.


Thank you for that, I certainly did not know that. You are a braver man than me, Gunga Din, I dips me lid to you and your mates, stay safe this summer, Bob

[bob10]

Just read that initial in depth report, it's staggering . They didn't have a chance, their system let them down badly. I'm gobsmacked, Bob

[sheerluck]

Just read that initial in depth report, it's staggering . They didn't have a chance, their system let them down badly. I'm gobsmacked, Bob

Staggering is the right word Bob. There were failures at pretty much every point in the line, and when you add in a measure of "loss of face" (as in the department did not want to report their lack of readiness/lack of adherence to the standards), it became a disaster in the making.

19 young men died essentially in the name of pride.

[CharlesTeton]

Terrible trail of errors... Cock up after cock up... Poor guys, as been said, did not stand a chance. Thoughts go out to the families ...