Some more County info please...

[2 rocks]

So, finally Monty had his maiden voyage today, conveying me to work :D

It was cool, apart from not seeing Deefer or Series to wave to, it was 3.7deg when I left home and the heater is not really heating!

First up, the heat/cool air mix lever doesn't seem to do anything and it seems to be at around a "warm" setting. The car has factory A/C as I think that changes some of the control layout(?). How do i get to whatever the lever is attached to that presumably operated the heater tap?

I believe some things are vac operated, this seems to be ok as I can change between fresh/recirc and hear the flap operating etc. ??

As an aside to this, I think a cooling system flush ay be in order, after the cold start it turned into quite a warm winter's day, and a run up the freeway at 100 kmh saw the temp gauge edge up to just shy of 3/4 - or maybe a stuck thermostat? Either way, I dread to think what a summer temp would have brought. Or do they "all do that"?

The brakes feel a bit spongy - sometimes, hopefully a bleed will bring them up a bit and first thing in the morning the I have to double de-clutch to get it to let go of 1st gear :eek:, what's with that! Although I think the clutch slave may be leaking - oh well, at least they're cheap enough :D. Otherwise the driveline seems good, the noises just remind me of a truck noises rather than wear noises. And I keep trying to find 3rd about where it would be on an R380 shift gate :angel:

Cheers
Mike

[AdsLandies]

Good to hear you got it out on the open road. My county has factory A/C but is a diesel model. If it's the same heater control as mine the lever basically just seems to control a flap inside the heater box, but when moved fully to the cold side it presses against a vac operated switch which activates the heater valve to close off. The lever is on the side of that big black box inside the engine bay nearest the passenger side. Maybe it has come off and is not connected anymore??
I have a V8 also which likes to run hot on extended trips. I think it's the viscous coupling on the fan as I've checked everything else and it all seems OK. I know others who have changed theirs and have greatly reduced the running temp. I live in a cold climate so don't have much trouble unless I head too far North.
Don't know about the first gear issue. Is it a 4 or 5 speed?
Adam.

[steveG]

So trouble getting OUT of first??
My LT95 is always a bit of a struggle with getting INTO second for the first time on a cold morning but fine after that. Drops out of first easily though.
Change the oil in the gearbox if you haven't already done so and get the clutch slave sorted before looking any further.

Bleed and adjust the brakes, but I found with mine that they always felt a little soft and a lot more initial travel than a full disc system. Stopping power was OK once you got them working. Its likely you've still got the original brake hoses too, so that could be a factor.

Steve

[flagg]

I used to have probs getting out of first when it was really cold. It was the oil I was running. Once it warmed up it was fine... It didn't take long, a few hundred meters (not always practical.. So I changed the oil, but still..)

[AdsLandies]

Come to think of it, my lt95 and lt85 boxes both have issues getting into second on cold mornings as mentioned above. Changed to a lighter oil which is better for winter, but get more gear chatter when it's hot. Now having my memory jogged, I think it used to be a bit hard to get out of first at times too as Flagg described, but is ok now. You get pretty good at matching the engine revs to the gear changes to overcome some of this and then forget it was ever a problem.

[2 rocks]

Thanks for information guys!
Sorry it's a 4spd...
I haven't changed the oils/fluids yet but will do that over the next couple weekends and see if that changes things, the new alternator is the first job tomorrow though.
I know people brewed up special blends of gear oil and hydraulic fluid to help some of the R380 'boxes, I might have a play around. And yes I need to check that slave when I have daylight...
There's a radiator place near work that I took the other half's Surf to a few years back when the heater failed to heat, so I might run it over to him for a good flush.
AdsLandies, I'll have a look at the A/C box, I haven't noticed anything on/near it so you could well be right...
Steve you're probably right about the brake lines, but I'll bleed them up and see if that helps a little - at least the work mostly and it pulls up straight, just a little more leisurely than I'd like :p
Cheers
Mike

[2 rocks]

Well I might have a contributor to the "warmer than I'd like" operating temperature...
Now it's been a very long time since I've had a car with an old school radiator cap - so I can't really remember but as I recall, it's meant to have a rubber seal on it?
Well this one doesn't - so methinks the system isn't really doing what it should...
Don't start me on the LPG :D I'll leave that for the LPG section...
Cheers
Mike

[2 rocks]

I replaced the cap on the expansion tank...not change in the temp on the gauge.
So off to my "radiator guy", he found the following:
- coolant flow through the system was fine (so I guess the pump is ok)
- radiator is ok
- no leaks
- he got a reasonable amount of crud out on the back flush, but nothing major

I might change the thermo as a matter of course, but with flow ok, It shouldn't be too much of a contributor.

Which leads me to only one (?) conclusion...the viscous hub must be knackered - unless there's anything else I haven't thought of.
When idling in traffic, the temp drops to say half the gauge, as soon as I return to high speed running, around 90kmh - up it goes to 3/4.

I have to reconnect the vac lines to rear of the heater control panel, the radiator guy said the heater tap was opening and closing - but I'm still getting hot air through the vents. I think I've seen posts alluding to another vac solenoid doing something in the heater box - not sure what - but is this the one under the vent on top of the left front guard, or is there another one?

Why have a set of simple cables and levers, when you can complicate things with vacuum operation! :mad:
Cheers
Mike

[Distortion]

What are you using to monitor the temps mine as a bit of an odd issue that I believe is due to dodgy earths when if I have the head lights on it seems to run about 10 degrees hotter than it really is.

[JDNSW]

A couple of points.

1. Temperature gauge - this is subject to variations with voltage (and hence engine speed) if there is a fault with the earth to the instrument cluster or the gauge itself - loose nut on the back of the gauge in my case. Same applies to the fuel gauge. If this is the problem, switching the dash lights on and off will affect the gauge as they use the same earth (but the gauge response is slow, so give it thirty seconds to see if it moves)

2. Hard to get out of first when cold? Common with the LT95 - change to synthetic oil. (note that the oil must be light or you will break the oil pump, which will not be immediately obvious)

Hope this helps

John

[andy_d110]

I replaced the cap on the expansion tank...not change in the temp on the gauge.
So off to my "radiator guy", he found the following:
- coolant flow through the system was fine (so I guess the pump is ok)
- radiator is ok
- no leaks
- he got a reasonable amount of crud out on the back flush, but nothing major

I might change the thermo as a matter of course, but with flow ok, It shouldn't be too much of a contributor.

Which leads me to only one (?) conclusion...the viscous hub must be knackered - unless there's anything else I haven't thought of.
When idling in traffic, the temp drops to say half the gauge, as soon as I return to high speed running, around 90kmh - up it goes to 3/4.

I have to reconnect the vac lines to rear of the heater control panel, the radiator guy said the heater tap was opening and closing - but I'm still getting hot air through the vents. I think I've seen posts alluding to another vac solenoid doing something in the heater box - not sure what - but is this the one under the vent on top of the left front guard, or is there another one?

Why have a set of simple cables and levers, when you can complicate things with vacuum operation! :mad:
Cheers
Mike

If you have some vacuum lines disconnected at the load (switch or actuator) but still connected at the source (manifold) it may be running lean and causing it to overheat as well?

[Bush65]

From you post, I assume the radiator place only checked for coolant flowing through the radiator and did a back flush.

That will not ensure that the radiator is OK.

The problem is that the radiator is cross flow and the lower tubes will block up, while coolant can still pass through the upper tubes. Also flushing is not always successful. With blocked lower tube you can loose a lot of cooling area (and area is vital) and still have similar coolant flow.

With a normal radiator that has the tanks at top and bottom, sediment drops out in the bottom tank and doesn't block the tubes unless it is severe. In the cross flow radiator, sediment drops out in the lower section of the tank, and the lower tubes.

The only way to do it properly is to remove the tanks from the core so each and every tube can be cleaned properly.

[2 rocks]

A couple of points.

1. Temperature gauge - this is subject to variations with voltage (and hence engine speed) if there is a fault with the earth to the instrument cluster or the gauge itself - loose nut on the back of the gauge in my case. Same applies to the fuel gauge. If this is the problem, switching the dash lights on and off will affect the gauge as they use the same earth (but the gauge response is slow, so give it thirty seconds to see if it moves)

2. Hard to get out of first when cold? Common with the LT95 - change to synthetic oil. (note that the oil must be light or you will break the oil pump, which will not be immediately obvious)

Hope this helps

John
Thanks John
I will try the dash lights test - my observation is that the temp reads the same as described with lights on or off, but I've not watched it while turning them on.
I need to change the 'box oil anyway, as I suspect it has EP90 in it ;). It also chucks some of it out through what I assume is a wading plug on the leading edge of the bell housing. :(


If you have some vacuum lines disconnected at the load (switch or actuator) but still connected at the source (manifold) it may be running lean and causing it to overheat as well?
Hi mate good point, IIRC, it was doing the the same before I messed with the heater controls though...?


From you post, I assume the radiator place only checked for coolant flowing through the radiator and did a back flush.

That will not ensure that the radiator is OK.

The problem is that the radiator is cross flow and the lower tubes will block up, while coolant can still pass through the upper tubes. Also flushing is not always successful. With blocked lower tube you can loose a lot of cooling area (and area is vital) and still have similar coolant flow.

With a normal radiator that has the tanks at top and bottom, sediment drops out in the bottom tank and doesn't block the tubes unless it is severe. In the cross flow radiator, sediment drops out in the lower section of the tank, and the lower tubes.

The only way to do it properly is to remove the tanks from the core so each and every tube can be cleaned properly.
Hi Bush
I might have to phone "radiator guy" and run it past him, as he said, "it's been a long time since I worked on of these!" :)

Got rellies here from the UK at the moment, so not too much spare time for tinkering. The D2 was supposed to be fixed before they arrived, but the adjectives for the shop supposed to do the work are not postable. :p
Cheers
Mike

[AdsLandies]

I have to reconnect the vac lines to rear of the heater control panel, the radiator guy said the heater tap was opening and closing - but I'm still getting hot air through the vents. I think I've seen posts alluding to another vac solenoid doing something in the heater box - not sure what - but is this the one under the vent on top of the left front guard, or is there another one?



The flap under the vent on the left guard is just your "fresh air" control. Not sure if this is a problem on the V8s but on my isuzu the hot water was able to get back to the heater box in the opposite direction, so even though the heater switch was working it still got in there. The isuzu has a funny set up with the thermostat that caused this, but don't think the V8 is like that. Maybe it is still somehow getting in there the opposite way?

[2 rocks]

Hi Ads
I'm not sure at all...I'm waiting to get the time to be able to start having a good rummage. The thing is, with heater tap cable now reconnected but the vac lines off - I can't yet tell if the temp control is working but unable to operate without vac. All may be fine once I have them sorted, but I can't pull the dash out again at the moment. :(

You could be right though, as without an original for comparison, i don't know what, if anything, has been 'played with' to provide water flow for the LPG.

On the cooling front, I performed a simple test the other day - dunno why I din't think of it before :p, open D2 bonnet give the viscous fan a shove - hardly moves...open County bonnet, do the same and it moves far more easily, so I deduce the viscous hub is at least partially buggered. If nothing else, it'll at least be an incremental improvement when I swap it. :)

Cheers
Mike

[JDNSW]

Thanks John....... It also chucks some of it out through what I assume is a wading plug on the leading edge of the bell housing. :(
.......
Cheers
Mike

Yes, it is a wading plug hole. Oil here can come from either the gearbox or the engine - you can tell which by the colour, but don't do what I did - pull the engine out to fix the main seal - and then find that it was a mix of engine and gearbox oil. I pulled the gearbox the second time. Not sure which is easier - neither is easy, but depends on what gear you have.

The most likely gearbox oil leak into the bell housing is from the oil pump on the front of the box. The diecast cover will be warped. Remove it, lap it flat, and replace with a new gasket. Simple job - apart from removing the box!

John

[2 rocks]

Hi John
Thanks again :D. More homework!
I'm waiting for it to hurl it out again for another look at the oil, but I'm suspecting it might be rear main.

Mate, if at some point I have to pull that motor out, I'll be selling it to the nearest boatie in need of an anchor and putting in a diesel. :wasntme:

Cheers
Mike

[Carslil Jim]

That whole heater setup on the County gave me the creeps. It is very very difficult to get to and work on. My fan control stopped working and I could not get heat. So I by passed the lot. I put in a switch that switches the fan on and off, and I got a Holden hot water tap that I switch on for the winter and off for the summer. I still use the lever inside to control hot air in or off.

Re the temp guage, I also had to replace the viscous coupling fan, and I had the tanks removed and cleaned on the radiator. Mine runs on 1/2 mark all the time with very little movement up when she is working hard.

But don't ditch that V8. Its a torquey little beast under revs. which is great for sand. And it sounds fabulous when it roars!

[2 rocks]

Hi Jim
I know what you mean - and I thought the rust rotten heater box on my Fiat 124 Sport was scary, it's got nothing on this contraption. What a ridiculously devised system. Discos aside, AFAIK, every other car I've had one control that opened or closed the heater tap, and another one or possibly two to direct the air where you wanted it.

So from what I understand and the mods you've done, the tap is controlled by the cable, but inside the heater box - or is it the front guard? - there's a vacuum servo to to allow the hot air through? So in it's place you now have a manual tap, so how does the lever control the hot/cold air mix? Apart from the vacuum operation of the dash vents, I really don't think I have a "handle" on the system at all...

Yes the viscous hub will be the next item on the list, and I have a good feeling this will solve my problem :p

The V8. Hmmm, it does sound great :D. I just groan when I open the bonnet and see all that "stuff", y'know, plugs, plug leads, dizzy, carbies - so many links in the chain of keeping a motor running well. Get a nice mechanically injected diesel running and everything else can die around it and it'll keep going - ok, it will need a lift pump. ;). On top of that there's all the LPG plumbing...in my Tdi it was soooo simple under there!

I have a tendency to think of petrol engines as fragile, over-complex systems. I actually think I'd like it better without the LPG, and a transplant of an injected 3.9...for simplicity under the bonnet and room in the load space. We'll have to see...
Cheers
Mike

[Carslil Jim]

Mike,
I agree re the fragility of petrol engines. And the proof is that near every one else has a diesel. But I had the audacity to join the LROC trip across the Simpson this year. My machine has done 240000 hard ks, and of 11 vehicles mine was the only petrol job. I had no spares for distributor, plugs, leads (in retrospect a little brave), but she never missed a beat. And last year I did Sydney to Cape York solo, and again it never missed a beat. All she got between the two trips was an oil and filter change.

I do have irridium plugs, but that is the only concession to boost reliability.

Re the heater. Groan. I have been pretty barbaric.There is no cable to the tap. You lifts the bonnet at the start of winter, and turn it on, and you lifts the bonnet at the start of summer and turn it off. (previously I think there were two vacuum controlled taps). The sideways lever on dash opens and closes a vent somewhere, and that is operational. You would expect that cable to turn the tap on/off as well, but it does not. I have connected enough vacuum hoses to get the dash vents operational, but hey, it really only works for air straight into cab thru the dash vents... when you are not going uphill. Hopeless. Forget the screen and the floor, the airflow is so restricted it is not worth having.

And what are all those symbols for the vent direction controls. There is not a lot of logic there. I have not been able to find any doco that explains the heater/Air Con set up, or the fuse box on my 85 County.

And the three speed fan. There is a little box under the bonnet that controls that. Somewhere in the maze of wires reputed to be a harness, I have lost power/control. I paid $450 to get it fixed and it failed again in a month, and I am blowed if I am going there again. To solve that problem I ran a cable from battery via fuse via switch in centre console (actually I installed a whole second fuse box in the centre console, so I have some control and understanding of the electrics), to the fan, It runs at full speed and is either on or off. Period.

Re fuses. I am unable to find, after massive searching, any doco on the factory fuse set up. I have figured out 50% of existing fuses by trial and error but I can now only identify what they do if there is a failure.

The second fuse box drives two cig lighter points (this machine was manufactured with NO cig point on the dash or anywhere else). The fridge, CB, heater fan, driving lights, GPS are all powered through this second fuse box and I have plenty of spare slots to by pass the next disaster in the harness. To add an insult to the LR system I have used a fuse box out of a Nissan.

BTW, re the fan. A radiator man will tell you in a trice whether it is good or not. I think it should be stiff as, when starting, and roar loudly, but then the roar should drop away after a few minutes as she warms up.

Good Luck,

Jim

[2 rocks]

So after about 10 minutes of trial and error, I think I have all the vac hoses correctly connected on the back of the control module. Push the button that looks like an open book :p vents open/close, windscreen goes to windscreen and circle is closed. The A/C switch is irrelevant for now.

The fresh/recirculate switch opens and closes the vents under the dash in the footwell, the slider moves the lever on the side of the heater/A/C box in the engine bay for air flow - I can hear the flap.

I now realise the vac servo in one of the pipes disappearing into the heater box is the heater tap itself. This does not seem to operate.

A check with a mirror shows a vac line connected to it (red I think).

-Can anyone tell me where that vac line goes to so I can follow it to ensure it's operational?
-Could the vac servo have failed? How would I check this?

I'm still not sure what the vacuum servo beneath the grille on the left guard is for, or is it a small reservoir? The fresh/recirculate one is in the bottom of the dash so it' not for that...

I know the one for the CDL is the sphere on the RH guard - I assume the same one provides vac for the Maxi Drive??
Phew!
Cheers
Mike

[yt110]

I'm still not sure what the vacuum servo beneath the grille on the left guard is for, or is it a small reservoir? The fresh/recirculate one is in the bottom of the dash so it' not for that...

From what I can remember the one on the left guard has to close when the one under the dash opens.

I don't think there is a heater tap, just a flap that redirects the air either over the heater core or bypass it.

Jim.

[2 rocks]

Hi Jim
There's def a vacuum servo in-line on one of the water pipes going into (or out of) the heater box ;)...

Ok cool, so the guard one opens and another closes the recirculate vent?
Cheers
Mike

[isuzurover]

...

I now realise the vac servo in one of the pipes disappearing into the heater box is the heater tap itself. This does not seem to operate.


....
I know the one for the CDL is the sphere on the RH guard - I assume the same one provides vac for the Maxi Drive??


The OEM vac heater valve is a silly idea for the Australian climate. Every time you shut the engine down it opens, heating up the cab. Better to fit a manual valve that you can close permamently in summer.

MD lockers usually use a separate vacuum tank made from ~8" of exhaust pipe.

[yt110]

Hi Jim
There's def a vacuum servo in-line on one of the water pipes going into (or out of) the heater box ;)...

Ok cool, so the guard one opens and another closes the recirculate vent?
Cheers
Mike

Yes you are right on both, as isuzurover has said I do remember that stupid heater tap.
Jim.

[Carslil Jim]

Mike,
Attached photo might help. I have long ago removed the cock.



Regards

Jim

[2 rocks]

The OEM vac heater valve is a silly idea for the Australian climate. Every time you shut the engine down it opens, heating up the cab. Better to fit a manual valve that you can close permamently in summer.
MD lockers usually use a separate vacuum tank made from ~8" of exhaust pipe.

Agreed! :) The whole system is silly...logic would suggest that a slide control for temperature would increase/decrease the flow of hot water through the matrix.

Hmm, re the MD, looking at my in-cab actuator and valve it is tapped off a t-piece that's also going to the CDL actuator, so I hope the spherical reservoir is sufficient for both...


Mike,
Attached photo might help. I have long ago removed the cock
Regards
Jim

Thanks for the pic, Jim. OMG! it looks like there's two of them in that photo :eek:. I'll have to pull the air filter off and have a look...but by the sound of it I might have to replace the "tap" as you've done, but see if I can think up something to allow in-car operation of it.

Seeing as the lever only opens and closes an air flap, could that not be attached to manual tap? After all, airflow can be controlled via the "o" switch on the panel, or circumvented by choosing recirculate, negating the need to operate the flap in the heater box. The cable terminates in the right place after all...
Cheers
Mike

[AdsLandies]

G'day Mike,
In the picture that Jim posted you can just see a whitish/yellow rectangular block mounted to the side of the heater box (its just above the heater tap in the pic). From memory, this is actually the switch that controls when the heater valve is closed off. The lever that operates the flap in the heater box needs to be adjusted so that when on the coldest setting on the dash the lever controlling the flap presses against a button on this switch, which then closes off the hot water flow - well that was the case with mine anyway. I agree it seems like a dumb idea as moving the lever just a little from the coldest setting then opens up the whole hot water system to circulate through the heater box. However, once adjusted correctly it does seem to work ok.
Adam.

[wrinklearthur]

I worked on a air conditioning / heater system recently in a County and it was a vacuum operated system.

The pipes and valves were full of fine dust, after blowing everything out with compressed air and changing a few perished parts, it was back operating as good as new.
.