GOE emergency air up kit.

[Glynhouse]

Hi all, has anyone on here had to use an air up kit, or been stuck due to the vehicle dropping to the stops ?
Just bough a members wheels and tyres and am struggling a bit with the budget, looking at a Llams then thought hang on, if I have trouble an air up kit will at least get me home, a Llams would be nice to have but not a life saver !
Am I right ?

DD
p.s. Thanks for the quick response Graeme

[101RRS]

LLAMS less of a life saver and more of a system to enable you to go faster than 50kph at offroad height - it of course does give an extra height level for the rough stuff.

If on a budget I would get GOE Rods and then think about any other trick bits you may want.

Garry

[Ashes]

I've had the rear drop to the bump stops while on a trip up a track to find some snow. Found the snow,hear a "whoosh" noise, rear lowers. Fault was a air hose near the front developing a leak after rubbing on something. Unlucky time for it to wear through. Some bottom scrapes on the way down, some track building and used some pillow tracks to fill in gaps thanks to RMP who was trialling them at the time. Got out and back to civilisation. Car was driveable but ride is pretty rough. Wouldn't want to drive at highway speed though. Not sure whether the air up kit would have worked In this situation though.

[Glynhouse]

Perhaps I should have added that we do a lot of traveling in rather sparsely populated areas, last trip to the N.T. we did 600klms on the dirt from Mt Isa, no fuel no towns and did not see another vehicle on the road all day, saw one on the way back.
Thanks for the answer Garry.

DD

[101RRS]

I am not travelling anywhere major outback at the moment but GOE air up kit with spare hose repair kit would definitely be a priority for me. I have LLAMs but I would probably have RODs as well as a backup (they are cheap).

Garry

[discotwinturbo]

I have gone to the bump stops with my 285/60-18's with a suspension fault a few weeks back. The car still drove ok, but would not have been able to get out where I was at such a low height.

I ending up resetting with a battery disconnect and all good.....lucky!

I had my D4 on LLAMS plus 50 in offroad height, and must have got some wheel height too high for a particular climb.....and I did not put it down a bit after the climb.

I am still yet to fit my GOE emergency kit.....but need to do it soon.

Brett.....

[minibloodhound]

A couple of times I've had the compressor over heat and drop down to the bump stops and refuse the work until it cooled down. Both times the temperature wasn't that hot, but the humidity was right up there. Whilst descending along Rover Trail in Coffs Harbour earlier this year the front end decided to have a rest
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/1281.jpg
And wouldn't level out until the compressor cooled down again. It's one thing that I will probably be looking at myself as next year I'll be going on a big outback trip.

[TerryO]

Hi Dennis,

Personally if I was in your situation I'd go for the emergency air up kit and a Faultmate or Hawkeye so you can reset / clear most faults easily.

I have LLAMs and the system is really excellent and I seriously wouldn't want to be without it. Having said that while my D3 is in getting some work done at the moment I'm also getting Gordon's Air up kit and Rods fitted.

While I have never had a suspension issue to date, for me anyway, I hope this means in the future well over 90% of potential suspension issues while out on the road or in the bush I will have at least a temporary solution for.

[Redback]

Hi Dennis, go with the GOE air up kit, especially in your situation, last thing you want is trying to tow that van on the bump stops.

Baz.

[AnD3rew]

Has anyone fitted this with a long ranger tank insitu? I think Gordon once said he had helped someone do it and it was a bit painful, anyone else done it?

[~Rich~]

Yes I have, a Brown Davis tank in situ.
It is difficult but doable, cutting the rear airline on the passenger side is the worst one. Getting that one to seal using the quick connectors was the issue. Gordon's cutter makes it a little easier. I found it was a little better access if you unscrew the wiring block that is just to the rear of the top mount.

[gghaggis]

I'm trialling a new kit at the moment that doesn't require any cutting of existing lines. Issue at the moment is slow inflation rates, but hope to resolve that soon.

[AnD3rew]

I'm trialling a new kit at the moment that doesn't require any cutting of existing lines. Issue at the moment is slow inflation rates, but hope to resolve that soon.

That sounds awesome, look forward to seeing that. As an emergency get you out of trouble solution slow inflation may not be a killer, long as we are talking minutes / hours not days.

[alpick]

My experience with emergency air up kits is to carry one when going remote but only fit it if you need to. when i fitted my emer air up kit to the D2 SLS it resulted in a long series of slow leaks from the created joins that took ages to resolve and as I never actually had a SLS problem it was a lot of effort expended for no real purpose.

how often is this kit needed? mostly issues are elec/compressor probs and either a cooling period, hard reset or obd tool fixes the vast majority.

If you actually need it and have slight issues with leaks after fitting when out bush at least you will get out to a proper service ctr and the leaks will have been caused by actual need rather than peercieved need.

Carry dont fit.:D

[gghaggis]

Carry dont fit.:D

As a user, but also as the designer of this kit, I don't recommend this. This isn't for a D2.

Cheers,

Gordon

[alpick]

"As a user, but also as the designer of this kit, I don't recommend this"

of course not, you want people to buy it i assume,

"This isn't for a D2" so whats the real difference, four inflation points instead of 2 whacko!

no conflict of interest here is there!

[gghaggis]

"As a user, but also as the designer of this kit, I don't recommend this"

of course not, you want people to buy it i assume,

no conflict of interest here is there!

Hmm - I don't know you, so I doubt you know me, but I don't try to give advice just to sell stuff. And your statement above is nonsense - whether people fit the kit or just carry it, they still have to buy it, don't they??!! I don't fit it for them.

Do some research ...........

Cheers,

Gordon

[discotwinturbo]

"As a user, but also as the designer of this kit, I don't recommend this"

of course not, you want people to buy it i assume,

"This isn't for a D2" so whats the real difference, four inflation points instead of 2 whacko!

no conflict of interest here is there!

Without people like Gordon and Graeme...we would be stuck in the desert somewhere trying to work out terrain settings, blown tyres because LR supplying modern vehicles with 19 inch rims, compressors being smashed by rocks, car dropping to its bumps stops and not being able to lift it, burning out the compressor because the car won't go over 50kph without dropping (due to constant use of the offroad suspension height button)....and much more things that can go wrong but are reduced due to their experience and time developing products for our benefit.

No conflict of interest at all....as far as I am concerned.

Gordon and Graeme are passionate LR drivers and we would be buggered without their products.

Brett......

[alpick]

My research and experience (and the experience of my local indy LR specialist is):

there are more leak issues created in fitting these types of systems than the incidents of a failure requiring their use.

P.S.

flack jacket on!:spudnikshooter:

[gghaggis]

My research and experience (and the experience of my local indy LR specialist is):

there are more leak issues created in fitting these types of systems than the incidents of a failure requiring their use.

P.S.

flack jacket on!

And what has this got to do with your accusation that I'd advise people to fit rather than carry for mainly monetary reasons?

Waiting with interest for your reasoning ..............

Cheers,

Gordon

[connock]

I think fitting in a clean garage would be my option rather than lying under a car with half a ton of mud stuck to its under belly, this is where the leaks would be made.

connock

PS I would be interested in the new version when it happens I've run the gauntlet for probably to long:eek:

[alpick]

Gordon,

Sorry ,Maybe i should have said dont bother with these types of systems at all.

likelihood of need almost zero

problems caused when fitting, likely. i.e. "cutting the rear airline on the passenger side is the worst one. Getting that one to seal using the quick connectors was the issue"

ok fair enough fit- dont fit still need to buy, you did not actually say buy my stuff but .

In my view the manner you invloved yourself is a self interest conflict, (typically not acknowledged or seen as such by the authors otherwise it would not have happened). You are self promoting your product just by making the comment.

And I am entitled to my opinion.

[gghaggis]

Maybe i should have said dont bother with these types of systems at all.

likelihood of need almost zero

problems caused when fitting, likely.

ok fair enough fit- dont fit still need to buy, you did not actually say buy my stuff but .

In my view the manner you invloved yourself is a self interest conflict, (typically not acknowledged or seen as such by the authors otherwise it would not have happened). You are self promoting your product just by making the comment.

And I am entitled to my opinion.

Of course you are entitled to your opinion, as long as said opinion is not slandering others. The merits of fitting or not fitting can be politely debated without you making erroneous judgements on my motivation.

The particular issue of fitting versus carrying is not a self-interest conflict, as I have more experience with this particular kit than you do, and whether people fit it or just carry it makes no personal difference to me. I involved myself because I don't think your comment on that particular issue, whilst partially true, is the whole truth, and so can be misleading.

Your comment on my motivation however, is a smug, self-important statement that has been made without any evidence or experience on your part.

[AnD3rew]

In my view Gordon and the handfull of other enthusiast vendors on here have always behaved in ethical and helpful ways even to each other despite competing.

Gordon's comments are exactly right, if you choose to have one of these kits you probably don't want to be sitting in the middle of the Simpson up to your :censored: in sand trying to fit it.

You may well be right that it introduces and element of extra risk where you cut and join, It may also be true that most people won't need it. That's for each user to decide. Gordon wasn't trying to shove it down anyone's throat, questions were asked and answered

[Graeme]

how often is this kit needed? mostly issues are elec/compressor probs and either a cooling period, hard reset or obd tool fixes the vast majority.

Having experienced a couple of failed compressors, I want the ability to use an alternate compressor. I have used my tyre compressor to pump air into a failed suspension compressor to get the vehicle up to height but only after having clamped the compressor's sump breather in place. Now having an AMK compressor with which I am not familiar, I've toyed with the idea of fitting a single valve to the compressor outlet line. However even though a failed compressor is the most common show-stopping fault, other failures can occur that can be overcome with an emergency valve for each corner. Even still more parts can fail that are not overcome with 4 emergency valves although a couple of spare air-springs and some tube and joiners would complete the package.

How far does one go in covering possible failures? I rate compressor failures as 99% of total air suspension system failures but if its not particularly difficult to provide 100% cover then for some adventures 100% is warranted. Once a 4-valve emergency kit is fitted all the suspenison electronics can be circumvented, including failures such as broken wires to valve blocks. If cutting into the 4 air-spring lines is not desireable then perhaps a single valve in a line that is not constantly under pressure is a reasonable option.

[TerryO]

Gentlemen,

This thread needs to get back on topic please.

[101RRS]

My research and experience (and the experience of my local indy LR specialist is):

there are more leak issues created in fitting these types of systems than the incidents of a failure requiring their use.

P.S.

flack jacket on!:spudnikshooter:

Your comments based on your own personal experience in some sort of a kit for a D2 maybe relevant to your D2 but not relevant to Gordon's D3/D4 kit.

Have you used the GOE kit on a vehicle it is designed for?? If yes and you had issues then I would certainly be interested in your point of view and I am sure Gordon would as well.

But here you are bagging a product you have not used based on some issues on a different product on a different type of car.

Sorry, I do not see that your point of view is relevant to this discussion at all.

Garry

[BobD]

Getting back on topic, I have the GOE kit and I also have the largest Brown Davis long range fuel tank on my D4 3l. I fitted the left rear part of the kit OK by cutting the existing air pipe on a longer straight section a little bit away from where Gordon recommended because it was impossible to get to the recommended spot. I also moved the connecting plug out of the way a little bit to get better access from underneath and up past the side of the tank. It was difficult but I made sure I could reach everything before cutting the pipe.

In the end Gordon helped me because I had a slow leak on this junction. He was better than me at using soapy water to find the leak but I would have eventually fixed it myself if I hadn't given Gordon a ring and asked him for some help in finding the leaking connector after a long day of installation.

The other issue I had was at Richmond in QLD on the way to Cape York, where the front right connector started leaking and dropped the car to the bump stops at the front over night. It took me half an hour to fix before continuing on for the day. I had my cable ties a bit tight to stop chafing on corrugations and caused the leak but I have since done Cape York and the Telegraph Track and back to Perth via the Kimberleys plus 40,000km of driving including plenty of off road and rough roads with no further issues.

I wouldn't do any remote travel without either Llams or GOE rods and the emergency inflation kit. As Gordon says, the emergency kit is not a trivial fit and would be virtually impossible on the side of the road, let alone in the bush where the height is actually needed.

As mentioned above, it does introduce a week point that can leak but if it is needed due to any kind of compressor or electronic failure, it is priceless. The potential benefits outweigh the risks in my opinion and if Gordon can get it to work without cutting the existing pipes it will be perfect.

Bob

[chuck]

Gordon

I will await your new product with interest especially given that I may be able to fit it myself.

Having seen "Ashes" air line leak/break out in the bush albeit not to far from civilisation it makes me nervous not to have something to fix the situation especially since I want to run larger tyres.

[Glynhouse]

Can you suggest any other alternative ?
As I said earlier we do travel some isolated roads (without the van ) and the most likely cause of disaster appears to be the air system. It would not be possible to drive out on the stops, and a recovery would be getting close to the cost of the vehicle.
Seems to me good insurance - short of swapping for a Tojo !! which we use as work vehicles on same roads without a thought (short of carrying a sat phone)

DD

[QUOTE=alpick;
Sorry ,Maybe i should have said dont bother with these types of systems at all.

likelihood of need almost zero

[BobD]

Glynhouse,

One of the things that can absolutely stop any auto vehicle is the starter motor, or lack thereof. The 200 series driver that I was travelling to Cape York with last year and I were both concerned about damaging our starters in creek crossings etc and we discussed several times that starter motor failer is a show stopper for our vehicles. Ironically, my starter failed catastrophically without any warning at a shopping centre in Perth, exactly one week after we returned from Cape York. It completely burnt out but according to the dealer there was no sign of water or dust ingress and they are completely sealed.

The other show stopper I have had is a brake light switch failure. This has the potential to prevent you from starting the car or driving the car, depending on whether it fails on or off. I now carry a spare switch, together with front and rear ABS sensors, for remote travel.

Another failure that came out of left field a couple of weeks ago showed up another possible issue. My handbrake unit was replaced with a new one that had the wrong part number for my 2010 D4, even though it was a replacement D4 unit. The ECU would not accept the part number that it detected and because of this it was impossible to clear any faults that developed for any reason by using a Testbook or the Faultmate FCR. A low fuel warning cascaded until the engine wouldn't run and it couldn't be reset until the correct hand brake unit was fitted.

This latter problem indicates to me that one should not use bush mechanics skills to remove faulty parts in the bush to try to fix a problem unless you have the correct replacement, as it can make the whole system unstable and cause a complete system failure instead of being just a nuisance failure.

Most of these things and other electronic issues will also apply to the latest Nissans and Toyotas as well, apart from issues with the air suspension that the Japs don't have.

I think we need to be as prepared as possible but there is always a chance that something will go wrong with any vehicle in harsh outback conditions. At least with D4's, D3's and RRS's the cars suffer about 20% of the vibratrion that the Japs endure in harsh conditions so there is a fighting chance that things won't break.

Bob

[LRHybrid100]

I'm trialling a new kit at the moment that doesn't require any cutting of existing lines. Issue at the moment is slow inflation rates, but hope to resolve that soon.

Hi Gordon,

Are these kits available yet?

Cheers LRH

[discotwinturbo]

Hi Gordon, Are these kits available yet? Cheers LRH

I have this kit....Gordon finished it earlier this year.

Brett....

[LRHybrid100]

GREAT! Any good?

[LRHybrid100]

Is it Kit 1 (Large) the part number?

[discotwinturbo]

GREAT! Any good?

Have not had to use it yet mate....but fitted relatively easily.

It's there just in case!

Gordon will confirm the kit.

Brett..

[Fatso]

I got the smaller kit that you carry in the toolbox and fit in an emergency when required , this enables you to pump up each air bag . I went this way as it not hard to fit if it is needed and gives piece of mind .

[4evershiva]

Had an EPB fault when I took the D3 to Bribie island over the weekend. Car dropped down to bump stops. Had a mate drag me along the beach to hard ground, the fault cleared itself and all good now. I know that dragging the D3 could have done some damage, unfortunately nothing happened. Don't want this situation as I have plans to go to Frazer island. Please advise if the emergency air kits is the way to go and who in Brisbane will be able to fit it in for me? What is the turn around time to get these kits from WA? Thanks Gordon. Ur rock sliders are already doing some good work for the D3.

[gghaggis]

The EAS kit (small) isn't fitted until needed, so you don't require a fitter. The larger lit can be fitted by British Off Road (they've done a couple so far).

Email me for further details.

Cheers,

Gordon

[AnD3rew]

Just to clarify Gordon, is the larger kit now the no cut kit? And if so does that eliminate the difficulties with fitting with a long range tank?

[Graeme]

Had an EPB fault when I took the D3 to Bribie island over the weekend. Car dropped down to bump stops. Had a mate drag me along the beach to hard ground, the fault cleared itself and all good now.You may have only needed to restart the engine, raise the suspension then remove the main suspension system fuse to prevent the suspension ecu from lowering as a reaction to an ABS fault message having been broadcast on the HS can-bus.