What year is this 4bd1

[Adrian18]

This came my way today with a 5 speed isuzu box number Near ij pump on block are 88728nf cast in its a na motor was in a npr truck 87????its lost its water no1 bore and piston are scored so it will be a re build couple of interesting point unusual intake manifold... skinny injectors ....supposedly npr 87 but looks newer what do you think

[Adrian18]

This is no.1 piston is it a alfin or plain aluminum one

[isuzurover]

This came my way today with a 5 speed isuzu box number Near ij pump on block are 88728nf cast in its a na motor was in a npr truck 87????its lost its water no1 bore and piston are scored so it will be a re build couple of interesting point unusual intake manifold... skinny injectors ....supposedly npr 87 but looks newer what do you think

Edit - see C_H_T's post below.

Engine number is on LHS of block.

[Adrian18]

Well its 948673 my engine in my ute now is a 85 and its 706698 so ??????

[isuzurover]

This is no.1 piston is it a alfin or plain aluminum one

Alfin Pistons have a steel groove whiich the first compression ring sits in. That pic looks like an Alfin piston to me. Is that darker material on either side of the ring steel?

Will check on the engine number thing - I think it was Bush65 who posted that.

[C H T]

The year of manufacture is cast into the rhd side of the block below the injector pump - eg 4BD1 92 - 1992 manufacture

C H T

[Judo]

x2 on RHS. As in drivers side. Spent a few hours under my sump recently... ;)

[Bush65]

The first to digits cast on the RH side - 88 by your OP.

Also look for the year (and maybe month - can't remember for sure) stenciled in permanent ink on the head, under one of the front posts for the rocker shaft. However this can scrub off during vigorous cleaning. Also take note of the stencil printing at 2 places on the deck of the block before you get carried away with cleaning as they contain useful information about piston and liner grades, etc.

I like those inlet manifolds and have had no luck finding one so far for myself.

I'm going to say early 88.

My 4BD1T is an 89. I don't know if the dipstick change at end of 88 onward was also changed on the NA motor. The covers on the tappet chest are different to mine as is the fan. The acoustic cover also, but I inclined to think that is a difference between turbo and NA.

From this distance the injector looks like those in mine.

[isuzurover]

...

I like those inlet manifolds and have had no luck finding one so far for myself.
...

Happy to have a look over here if you are still interested. Soltoggios may still have another.

This also supports my claim that I removed mine from a D, as opposed to Dougal's belief that they were only fitted to 4BE1's...

[Adrian18]

Is this motor likely to have the late cam shaft Secondly would the injector pump off this motor be compatible to the 85 na 4bd1 I'd like to try it

[c.h.i.e.f]

IP is compatible I'd be interested in seeing the underside of the block see if there is provision for oil squirters...

[garryseries3]

IP is compatible I'd be interested in seeing the underside of the block see if there is provision for oil squirters...

I have a late model block (88?) in the shed the sites for the squirters have been milled flat ready for the additional holes to be drilled and tapped to take the squirters. Late blocks NA and turbo seemed to have all had the same treatment in build preparation it just seems the NA did not get the squirters installed.

[Bush65]

Happy to have a look over here if you are still interested. Soltoggios may still have another.

This also supports my claim that I removed mine from a D, as opposed to Dougal's belief that they were only fitted to 4BE1's...
Thanks Ben, that would be good if/when it isn't too much trouble.

And yes I did file away the last point.

[Bush65]

Is this motor likely to have the late cam shaft Secondly would the injector pump off this motor be compatible to the 85 na 4bd1 I'd like to try it
Check the plates on both IP's, they may be the same item.

Also post pics of the plates, as this could be another way to check the id of the engine (through parts list using IP part number).

[Adrian18]

Will get the nos .tonight bush 65 my plan is for the engine is the next project 4bd1t + mxa5 + lt230 remote mount ie tail shaft between in a 130 dualcab maybe is that whats in your 120 got any more pics

[Dougal]

This also supports my claim that I removed mine from a D, as opposed to Dougal's belief that they were only fitted to 4BE1's...

It's your lucky day Ben. I've found one and you're right.;)
Isuzu NPR Towtruck 7.5 Ton GVM | Trade Me (http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/trucks/car-transporter/auction-610947967.htm)
oi1202: ISUZU NPR 1989 | CarJam (http://www.carjam.co.nz/car/?plate=oi1202)
Chassis number: NPR59PJ7100650X
Engine number: 907910

There don't appear to be many of these around. Most 4 ton NPR's of that vintage are turbocharged.

Other points of interest:
Dipstick location is the same as the pre-88 4BD1T's (between ports 1-2 instead of out the front).
I have the spec sheet for a 1998 NPR59PX, but I can't confirm if it's got the same intake.
78kw (110hp) at 3200rpm
263Nm at 1900rpm.
17:1 compression.
300mm clutch
MSA-5P box.

So now we know these intakes were fitted to certain 4BE1's and late 80's 4BD1's.
Mid 80's 4BD1's had conventional intakes, I have no data on when exactly the NA 4BD1 stopped being used or when the 4BE1 began.

The 4BE1 appears to be used in NKR's (skinny version of the NPR) until 1999 when it was replaced with the 4HF1.

The 1985 4BD1 in the NPR596:
72kw at 3,200rpm.
255Nm at 1900rpm.
17.5:1 compression.
275mm clutch.

Same gearbox, same axle ratio.

[Adrian18]

So are these manifolds better flow wise or what is the attraction

[c.h.i.e.f]

So are these manifolds better flow wise or what is the attraction

I think they like them for the fact they can be modded to make a laminova setup

[isuzurover]

So are these manifolds better flow wise or what is the attraction

Yes, they should flow better. Also, they offer the provision to chop the top off and fit in a WTA intercooler as I am in the (slow) process of doing.

[Bush65]

So are these manifolds better flow wise or what is the attraction
I'm only going from the pics and simply speculating that the manifold might help improve the VE a little and the connection to the front from a front mounted intercooler might be an advantage.

Just would like to compare with my existing manifold to see. Then if any improvement noticed, maybe enlarge the plenum if design figures indicate it.

[Dougal]

Did you ever run flow simulations on those CAD models Ben?

[isuzurover]

Did you ever run flow simulations on those CAD models Ben?

No not yet - still on the list...

[Adrian18]

Ok numbers are from the new engine/just brought ij pump
894455-6962
101401-0742
848m248590
1010408590
S4a95c412rs2s
I also rang the last owner and queried he on the date .he said the add was mistaken it actually came from a 1989:):) npr300 truck im thinking of trying the ij pump on my ute tomorrow because I'm not overly happy with it .I brought it 3 mouths ago a reco one its a turbo pump from a late 4bd1t. It hunts a little at idle and doesn't have as much torque down low as it should I have wondered if it is compatible with my 85 4bd1+t

[steveG]

Lack of torque down low was the issue Rijidij had with his 4BD1T before he tweaked the boost compensator. Pretty sure he posted up a good thread on what he did to sort it out.

IIRC the issue was the compensator was holding off the fuelling too much and resulting in much less low down that my 4bd1+t with the NA pump.

Steve

[Adrian18]

Thanks steve but my pump doesnt have a boost compensator most 4bd1t don't seem to in aust.

[Bush65]

Ok numbers are from the new engine/just brought ij pump
894455-6962
101401-0742
848m248590
1010408590
S4a95c412rs2s
I also rang the last owner and queried he on the date .he said the add was mistaken it actually came from a 1989:):) npr300 truck im thinking of trying the ij pump on my ute tomorrow because I'm not overly happy with it .I brought it 3 mouths ago a reco one its a turbo pump from a late 4bd1t. It hunts a little at idle and doesn't have as much torque down low as it should I have wondered if it is compatible with my 85 4bd1+t
The first number, 894455-6962, is the Isuzu part number for the fuel injection pump.

Unfortunately, my Isuzu 4BD1 parts book doesn't list that particular IP part number. Had it been among the list, I may have been able to find more info like year, etc.

BTW the book lists 62 different IP part numbers for 4BD1's, and also doesn't include the IP used in the last of the 4BD1T's supplied for the army 6x6's (Isuzu part number 897066-5020).

[Dougal]

Lack of torque down low was the issue Rijidij had with his 4BD1T before he tweaked the boost compensator. Pretty sure he posted up a good thread on what he did to sort it out.

He took it off IIRC.
I've got a thread somewhere on making an internal stop for the boost compensator to set off-boost fuelling independently from the preload adjustment.

Small changes (0.2mm) make a significant difference.

[Bush65]

Will get the nos .tonight bush 65 my plan is for the engine is the next project 4bd1t + mxa5 + lt230 remote mount ie tail shaft between in a 130 dualcab maybe is that whats in your 120 got any more pics
What I have is a 4BD1T (1989) + MXA-6R + Atlas II (5:1).

Because I had these in a rangie, there wasn't room to remote mount an LT230 behind an MXA-6, so I went with the Atlas II.

I wanted a 120 for years, but kept missing out on them (too slow off the mark :() when any came up. Then I found one with no engine, gearbox, or transfer case, so those were swapped out of the old rangie.

With a 110, etc. the cross member under the rear of the front seat box appears further back than what rangies have, but I may have still had problems remote mounting an LT230 behind the MXA-6. It is the extension housing for sixth gear that has the width problem (fouling the front drive extension of the LT230.

With an MXA-5, you have a shorter gearbox and the front extension housing of an LT230 will fit alongside. There may be enough clearance to the cross member to remote mount an LT230 with a minimum length tail shaft. If not, you have options, with a sympathetic engineer, for moving the location of the cross member.

[Adrian18]

What does the cable do heading around the back seems to contect to a cam on the back the other end goes to the what seems to be a stop solinoid it also has a normal stop lever on the top of the pump and a cable from there to the stop solinoid ive never seen one like this incidently the gear box is a msa-5p

[Adrian18]

Another pic from on top

[Dougal]

Cable to the cam on the back is cold start enrichment.

[rijidij]

Lack of torque down low was the issue Rijidij had with his 4BD1T before he tweaked the boost compensator. Pretty sure he posted up a good thread on what he did to sort it out.

IIRC the issue was the compensator was holding off the fuelling too much and resulting in much less low down that my 4bd1+t with the NA pump.

Steve



He took it off IIRC.
I've got a thread somewhere on making an internal stop for the boost compensator to set off-boost fuelling independently from the preload adjustment.

Small changes (0.2mm) make a significant difference.


You can see what I did here.........Boost compensator, how does it work ?? (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/isuzu-landy-enthusiasts-section/138105-boost-compensator-how-does-work-3.html)

Cheers, Murray

[Adrian18]

So is the cold start enrichment momentary a few seconds or minutes in duration ....is it needed ....could it be used via a pull cable?

[Dougal]

So is the cold start enrichment momentary a few seconds or minutes in duration ....is it needed ....could it be used via a pull cable?

Until the revs pick up and the governor unhooks it.
Factory it's on the same cable pack as the stop cable, but you could do a pull and release cable.

[Bush65]

I've never had anything to do with IP's with the pictured type of cold start enrichment, though I did have a VW Golf that had that style. The golf had a manual push/pull cable on the steering column, but was disconnected at the IP and I never used it.

The procedure for cold start enrichment for the IP on Isuzu's is to fully depress the accelerator, and hold it there, before starting. The control rack travels a lot further when the engine is stopped. When the engine fires the governor moves the torque cam to prevent that extra travel.

I imagine the above procedure will still work if you disconnect the cold start cable, but I haven't managed to find any diagrams that show what is happening inside the governor with that style of enrichment.

[Dougal]

I've never had anything to do with IP's with the pictured type of cold start enrichment, though I did have a VW Golf that had that style. The golf had a manual push/pull cable on the steering column, but was disconnected at the IP and I never used it.

The procedure for cold start enrichment for the IP on Isuzu's is to fully depress the accelerator, and hold it there, before starting. The control rack travels a lot further when the engine is stopped. When the engine fires the governor moves the torque cam to prevent that extra travel.

I imagine the above procedure will still work if you disconnect the cold start cable, but I haven't managed to find any diagrams that show what is happening inside the governor with that style of enrichment.

Here is how mine works:
When the key is switch to "on" the stop cable releases and the cold-start cable (a seperate item) pulls and then releases. Latching the rack in the cold-start position internally. It does this every start.

On the Isuzu trucks this might have been wired to a switch on the accelerator pedal so it only did it when the accelerator was also pressed. The wiring on my cable pack has been butchered. The NPR with a 4BC2 here has the same setup as mine, but not butchered. I should check it some-time.

Internally there is only one stop for the cold start to latch to, but intermediate cable adjustment also has an effect. Presumably from enough stiction in the mechanism that the latching notch isn't the only stopping point.
I have mine set so when the engine is warm it starts clean, but when cold there is a puff. It starts reliably down to ~-10C and I don't have glowplugs hooked up. I do have a very good 24v direct drive starter.

[Dougal]

You can see what I did here.........Boost compensator, how does it work ?? (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/isuzu-landy-enthusiasts-section/138105-boost-compensator-how-does-work-3.html)

Cheers, Murray

That's right, still fitted but set internally to disable any de-fuel.

[Bush65]

Here is how mine works:
When the key is switch to "on" the stop cable releases and the cold-start cable (a seperate item) pulls and then releases. Latching the rack in the cold-start position internally. It does this every start.

On the Isuzu trucks this might have been wired to a switch on the accelerator pedal so it only did it when the accelerator was also pressed. The wiring on my cable pack has been butchered. The NPR with a 4BC2 here has the same setup as mine, but not butchered. I should check it some-time.

Internally there is only one stop for the cold start to latch to, but intermediate cable adjustment also has an effect. Presumably from enough stiction in the mechanism that the latching notch isn't the only stopping point.
I have mine set so when the engine is warm it starts clean, but when cold there is a puff. It starts reliably down to ~-10C and I don't have glowplugs hooked up. I do have a very good 24v direct drive starter.
My stop cable device (from another truck, not originally with my engine) also had the cold start cable until I removed it because it served no purpose (my IP doesn't have that facility).

AFAIK when the accelerator is released, engine stopped or running, the control rack is pulled back to reduce fuel. So from your description I wonder how the control rack gets to the enriched position. This rack position is further in than full load and on the rack limiter.

The following diagrams might help with the procedure I described in an earlier post. The first is the governor assembly. The second is the parts around the torque cam.

When the IP is stationary the idle spring pushes the lower end of the tension lever forward, and the top end back. This movement is greater than when the engine is idling.

As the top of the tension lever goes back it pulls the torque cam around to the start position.

Now the function of the torque cam is to limit the maximum forward travel of the control rack (toward maximum fuel). There is a spring on the control rack that pulls it in the increased fuel direction. The top of the sensor lever is engaged with the control rack and the bottom hits the profile of the torque cam when the accelerator pulls the control lever to maximum load/speed and shifts the floating lever.

When the IP is stationary the torque cam is in a position where the tip of the sensor lever moves into the notch at the bottom of the torque cam, if the accelerator is fully depressed. As soon as the engine starts and the accelerator is lifted the torque cam is rotated so the notch is out of way.

[Dougal]

AFAIK when the accelerator is released, engine stopped or running, the control rack is pulled back to reduce fuel. So from your description I wonder how the control rack gets to the enriched position. This rack position is further in than full load and on the rack limiter.

If I remember correctly, the enrichment cam on the back pulls the rack back and it locks in position with a pawl in a notch. It is the governor that unhooks the pawl and lets the rack return.

But it has been ~6 years since then.

If this is the case, it appears they were able to get the accelerator cable to do the same job on post 88 4BD1T engines.

[303gunner]

If this is the case, it appears they were able to get the accelerator cable to do the same job on post 88 4BD1T engines.
The Operator's Manual for the Army 6x6 w/4BD1T says to depress accelerator to half-way position when starting.