300tdi defender towing woes...

[Intrepid]

G'day all,
I'm towing short but 1.8t pop-top caravan with the 110 300tdi defender. Had a few small problems, but after 3 weeks the five of us are still mobile.

I have couple of questions! Speed... Ha! Well in fourth I can achieve 80km/h indicated, but both gps say 71 and she's revving hard to achieve that. Im not happy at these speeds, nor revving her guts out. I hear there's a conversion one can do to the transfer case from a disco to get a better speed in 4th. Is this worth considering? Are there other ways to get more speed? I've just bought michelins, so I'm keen to keep tyres as they are.

Second, my motor sounded 'different' the other day, so having done 5000 I changed the oil. It made little diff. So yesterday I checked valve clearances and despite being done a month Ago by a pro, I thought they were WAY out. I adjusted them and the motor sounds much better. Now she's been driven pretty hard for the last 1500km, but is this sort of wear normal?

I now also have a coolant leak from behind the pump, but with water, I'm keeping on top of that one until i get to the sunny coast in a few days.

If you have any suggestions on any of the above woes, please share!

Catchas

[goingbush]

I feel your pain. 71 in 4th :eek::eek::eek: , are you holding back or is that on the governor

once the tappets are set, they should be done for 50,000kms I'd have thought, no matter how hard you drive it. So much for getting it professionaly done !!

What speed will it sustain in 5th ?? if it wont go any faster in 5th then no point putting Disco transfer gears in. The other problem with Disco high range is your 1st gear will be higher so you might have probs taking off on an incline, (unless you use low range).

I also am towing a 1.8t 13'6" poptop van , but with a Defender Td5 110 , 4 months on the road and the gearbox has just decided to fall over.
I'm having to tow in 4th now until I get my new Ashcroft box with heavy duty rear support bearings ( then tow in 5th to my hearts content)

In 4th the Td5 will easily do 90kmh (on GPS) @ 3000rpm and the only thing going faster is the speed at which the fuel needle is going down.

[MR LR]

Put it in 5th gear... It's only a 300Tdi and the trailer is less than 2t!!!

Never had an R380 fail on us towing ~3 tons of Veteran car around!

[schuy1]

Thoise figures seem a little slow compared to my '96 10 towing. I have never really found it a problem achieving 100 gps kms with 2-3 ton except when it sees a hill! However with that load 80-90 is better safety wise I have found. The box has done 310000ks and I only use 4th with a load, 5th is an OVERDRIVE! Want to tow faster? Get a F350!
Clearances I check at 40k and rarely need to adjust so I assume yours were not done properly at the service. I have found it does pay to check them twice if any adjustment is done, dunno why but second foll over always finds the 1 you did loose or tight. No prob as that is how I was taught to do valves.

[Intrepid]

Thanks for the replies. Well, I don't have a tachometer so I'm not sure how many revs she's doing, except to say that I'm doing a bit more than when I'd normally shift up a gear...if that makes sense?

I've spoken to a few people who drive a 300tdi and tow, and they seem happy to tow in 5th come what may. I have also spoken to mechanics who in turn advise against it!? So I'm taking the conservative approach. I reckon she'd pull okay in 5th, but I really don't want to shag it either... I need to load 5th up to get some speed up.

Oh and I just went to the local IGA and found the water pump gave up some more, so it looks like ill be spending a few more days in Theodore!

And fwiw, I run 235/85r16s.

Yay.;)

[schuy1]

Theodore , QLD? Just a rock throw away from me :)
and yes dont ignore that water leak, the little buggers can suddenly catch you out. And the alloy heads dont like heat :( I run the same tyre size and I find the indicated speed is always 10kms faster than gps speed. Good for scaring the passengers(Hey look at that ,140kmh in a landrover! :D)

Cheers Scott

[wally]

Thanks for the replies. Well, I don't have a tachometer so I'm not sure how many revs she's doing, except to say that I'm doing a bit more than when I'd normally shift up a gear...if that makes sense?

I've spoken to a few people who drive a 300tdi and tow, and they seem happy to tow in 5th come what may. I have also spoken to mechanics who in turn advise against it!? So I'm taking the conservative approach. I reckon she'd pull okay in 5th, but I really don't want to shag it either... I need to load 5th up to get some speed up.

Oh and I just went to the local IGA and found the water pump gave up some more, so it looks like ill be spending a few more days in Theodore!

And fwiw, I run 235/85r16s.


Yay.;)

I've towed some huge loads over long distances with 300Tdis, and I could always manage 100km/h on the flat if I wanted to (often, though 90km/h was enough). With only 1.8t there should be no reason why you can't get along at 100km/h most of the time, and I wouldn't be too concerned about using 5th with that load- just be ready to change down on the inclines. The coolant leak sounds like the "p" gasket.

[Intrepid]

Theodore , QLD? Just a rock throw away from me :)
and yes dont ignore that water leak, the little buggers can suddenly catch you out. And the alloy heads dont like heat :( I run the same tyre size and I find the indicated speed is always 10kms faster than gps speed. Good for scaring the passengers(Hey look at that ,140kmh in a landrover! :D)

Cheers Scott

Yep, the very same. Eidsvold will likely be our next stop unless the kids permit further travels so keep an eye out.

I adjusted the tappers twice and yep, made further corrections the 2nd time around. I estimate some of the gaps to have twice what they should have been, even more perhaps.

So just to get a better synopsis, should I just rev harder in fourth or put her in fifth and ease the speed up? Turbo works pretty hard as it is...

Viva la slow Defender!

[Intrepid]

I've towed some huge loads over long distances with 300Tdis, and I could always manage 100km/h on the flat if I wanted to (often, though 90km/h was enough). With only 1.8t there should be no reason why you can't get along at 100km/h most of the time, and I wouldn't be too concerned about using 5th with that load- just be ready to change down on the inclines. The coolant leak sounds like the "p" gasket.

Thanks for the reply. I'll have a better go in 5th then. On the odd occasion I use it on down hill runs though it sounds like it Can do it.

The mechanic here had a look at the Coolant leak and we traced it to from behind the pulley. Its running down the exhaust side of the block behind the alternator area. It's also starting to make noise, so he's advised to replace to pump. It's potentially overkill, but there's not much choice out here, so I'll take what I can get.

[marting]

The other option is to fit an overdrive (the roverdrive seems to be the best). This way you can tow in fourth and use the overdive to give approximately the same gearing as you would have in fifth, but the box is towing through 4th.
Martin

[schuy1]

The valve clearances can have a dramatic effect on power output with the 300. When you get the pump off check the P gasket too, A grumbly pump is on the way out. Check out the Cracow pub as you come through, Its gone a bit touristy now but spent a few nights till well after closing time there over my younger years! :o
I live out of Eidsvold back towards Cracow way so be a bit of luck if I saw you. If you wanted to make a detour and see some back roads PM me. Not many of us landy nuts , eer Enthusiasts :D around here
Cheers Scott

[rick130]

Definitely sounds like a P gasket leak.

Get a new one, plus 3 new cad plated bolts that go through the water pump, housing and into the block (the old ones will be corroded)




Just flog the engine, that's the only way to drive a Tdi.

They are underfueled stock, so you have to have the accelerator pedal pushed through the firewall and just don't lift and rev it till it stops revving. Simple.

Re the rocker clearances, just check the stem caps too.
If they're on the way out your clearances will blow out.

[muzza99]

I agree it sounds like the p gasket for a novus 3hr job.
Now for towing I tow 2.5 to 3 t with my tdi300
An sit on 110 in the hiway with no problems
I have twicked the waste gate so I'm running 18psi an the injector pump has been screwed up to help out and having a standard defender transfer case and it does it well in 4th gear

[Intrepid]

Okay, we'll it seems like I just need to drive her harder in fourth. I was going to buy and EGT gauge and have pump tweaked next week, though given the probs (had tensioner bolt shear off last week - great fun $$$) I reckon I'll have to ice that one now.

At the very least I'll have my valve caps checked by someone on the Sunshine Coast.

Well, I'd better crawl out of my van to make a cuppa for the wife. Gotta keep on her good side! Thanks for the replies, I'm a little more confident about revving her harder.

[muzza99]

Sorry I ment in 5 th gear

[101 Ron]

Towing with a TDI 300 in 5 th gear will not hurt it.
I would be more worried about reving the guts out of the motor in 4th and the effects of higher back pressures/heat soak and rotational forces over along period of time.
As for valve clearences....................some TDIs have a problem and some don't using OEM parts or other wise.
Working a TDI hard seems to make the problem worse.
The valve caps will fail in certain motors.
The P gasket is most likely the coolant leak.......good luck with the corroded bolts.
One of the reasons I sold my TDI defender is I realised it was not well suited to heavy towing and getting a load moving on a hill having to use low range is a pain.

Interesting enough one of landrovers earlier products does the heavy towing jobs just so much better without any reliability problems...a 101 Landrover, but the fuel burn does hurt.

[tonic]

I tow a 1t camping trailer and fill the 110 to the top. 100 in 5th is fine. My guess is also the P gasket. Mine has just started to leak. Only found out because I replaced the started last week. Have ordered a new pump, bolts and gaskets, from history, I just replace everything now.

You might want to look at your exhaust too. I replaced mine a couple of months ago. Without getting into the chat about size, and bends etc, one thing we found was the old muff was all but choked. The standard unit on mine was fully baffled and with 250km on the clock it was well pasted it's used by date.

Since the change I have seen a big improvement. I went with 2 1/2 inch non mandrel bend and a fairly straight through muffs. Will now have to get the pump tuned apparently, but have already noticed much better take off and down low torque.

There is heaps on here about exhausts. Will keep you reading for a while. But as mentioned, if it is a fullu baffled original unit on yours it could be choking up a bit by now.

Sounds like a great trip.

[uninformed]

I dont think its an issue with the Tdi to be in 5th, but rather the R380. Towing for long periods in 5th at your own risk I would say.....

what oil do you run in your R380?

[Intrepid]

Hmm, we'll it seems there's some mixed feelings about towing in fifth, though generally most owners do it...some cautiously. Does that sum it up?

The water pump is behaving oddly. Sometimes it leaks lots, other times not so much. Yesterday was a bad day, this morning, okay. I noticed the problem when I changed the idler bearing in Charters Towers. When I removed the belt, it started to dribble. It's just worse now and noisy at times; And most noticeable at idle I think. Pressure on the pulley must have some effect.

As for the gear oil, I have the syntrans expensive stuff in it now. I'll look into exhaust side of things seeing I have time on my hands...

Although its a 1996 vintage, she's only covered 123000km. Age does weary them!

[Reads90]

Definitely sounds like a P gasket leak.

.

Just what I was about to say

As for power

I think here is some problem with the fuel injection.

I have 2 300tdi defenders and have towed up to 3.5 t with both.

Last time was a heavy car trailer with a RRC on it and did 110k down the Bruce highway with it for an hour or so at not too bad revs. I don't like over revving the car too

I also towed a camper trailer behind my 300tdi defender All round Australia. That weighed about 1.5 t and did not feel it at all

Try putting some additive in you fuel. One that replaces sulphur. They have taken it out of modern fuel and the TDI needs it to lubicate the injector pump. This will give the TDI back it's lost torque in the mid range.

[Nomad9]

Hi Joshua,
If you do the P gasket yourself and the water has been leaking for a while the bolts could have corroded into the aluminium housing, be mindful of the the job could turn into a suicide pack in an instant............

[uninformed]

maybe I'm a little cynical, but I do have a little chuckle when I read these threads and the references to the performance of the 300tdi in defenders and towing. Phrases like "never felt it at all" and "tow 2.5t with ease" always make me wonder how valium is available over the counter :D

regarding the R380, no one is more surprised than me that mine has survived 320k and at least 250k of that towing a true 1.8t. It has only been getting syntrans for about 40k, but was always serviced prior to that. I was unaware of the 5th gear issue and can only put it down to the fact that when on the HWY any incline would require a drop back to 4th to maintain any reasonable egt and speed (certainly not 100km/h or above). This would help with oiling and load on 5th.

[Blknight.aus]

check the throttle cable...

SWMBOS has broken the clip again and has lost about 1/4 of its range of motion and pulls like a series with a lead off.

[schuy1]

check the throttle cable...

SWMBOS has broken the clip again and has lost about 1/4 of its range of motion and pulls like a series with a lead off.

I had forgotten about that little trick Blknight , Or it backs itself off with vibration from a prolonged drive and you get slower at the hills :confused: Really got me head scratching the first trip to Emerald . Not a problem after some nice black silastic!:D

[Intrepid]

I've attached a pic of the leak/ evidence. It looked to be emanating from the pulley. Is this we're the P gasket is?

And I'm probably not painting a good picture of how it drives. It pulls okay but I feel like she's revving too hard to pull at the speed. The turbo is whistling and whining when maintaining 80 indicated. It sounds like music to my ears, but its prolly gonna wear or break stuff, like idlers, tensioners bolts, belts and water pumps... (It had a 7pk 1595 fitted when it I'm sure it needed a 1580 serp belt, which is fitted now - I'm thinking this stuff up may have exacerbated all these 'issues')

[schuy1]

I would say it is your pump, with the possi of the P gasket also.Although your pic does not show the P. It generally manifests as a leak down the left side of the block in front of and beneath the exhaust manifold. If when you remove the belt and rotate the pump it is rough or as you said leaks more that is a problem.

Cheers Scott

[Intrepid]

Thanks all for the replies. I'm not sure the p gasket is on the job sheet, nor been ordered from Rockhampton, so hopefully it's not too bad.

The accelerator cable clip looks okay, I think. I'll have too look into it some more.

I'll re-read all the posts, but I'm gathering towing in fifth with an r380 is doable, at your ow risk... Towing in fourth is fine, but there are mixed thoughts about revving high for sustained periods. That sorta leaves me where I started, but I'll try 5th some more, judiciously. I suppose if I hear noises, back to 4th.

As for the tappet drift, I'll have the caps/valves/pushrods inspected in maroochy, and the pump tweaked too! Now it's just waiting for 8 hours.

Joshua.

[Intrepid]

Well after a wrong part order, it now fixed - the water pump that is. No more leaks!

The damage? Well, lets just say I could have bought 11 cartons of beer, good beer...:eek:

Sorta takes the gloss of things when travelling. Onwards we go.

Joshua.

[schuy1]

Ouch!! :o You should have grabbed it ,drove down to my place( a few hours away) had a coffee and I would have changed the pump over for you!. Ah well should all be good now :) And the coffee offer is still available Lol.
All the good sailing should be yours now!

Cheers Scott

[Intrepid]

Ouch!! :o You should have grabbed it ,drove down to my place( a few hours away) had a coffee and I would have changed the pump over for you!. Ah well should all be good now :) And the coffee offer is still available Lol.
All the good sailing should be yours now!

Cheers Scott

I know!!! I sorta thought since the were the RACQ mob, it'd pay to keep onside, but not that much onside!

We bolted yesterday, so we didn't stop with the kids not fighting and made it to the sunny coast in one hit. Car went into 5th too! Thanks for the offer though.

My poor Landy copped a hard day so she deserves a good wash and going over by someone who knows these machines.:D

Hope to bump into you one day.

[schuy1]

All good then :) HaHa, Kids fighting? Strap em to the roof rack! :D They soon give up so Ive been told! Good to hear the defer is running well after all that. And RACQ centers are usually the most expensive around! Most are good at retrieving your car but not so at fixing for some reason :o
All the best for the rest of your trip.
Cheers Scott

[Intrepid]

I thought I'd just post a closing update. I had the valves and lash caps and clearances checked by British Offroad - all were spot on! Not sure why they were so loose at Theodore?

Also had the pump and boost checked. These were down a bit and tweaked up, and the timing advanced. This brought the boost back to 16psi. After this I can honestly say it is so much better to tow with. I've largely stuck to 4th gear since and she sounds more compliant and willing at near 80km/h. Plenty more pull up hills too, and no noticeable smoke either.

Anyways, it's easier going now. Thanks again for the help!

Joshua.

[Kerry]

check to see if the accelerator cable hasn't backed of at the injector pump end. The lever arm should be against the screw stop at full opening. I was down on power with my tdi300 and that was the issue - also, make sure your floor mats etc are allowing full opening.

I tow a big caravan and carry all my gear (my van is my home) and do better than what you are indicating - but another 20kw would be good. I also don't have the air-cond on when going gets hard.

Hope this is the problem - easy fix.:D

[mudder110]

hi there as far as towing in 4th goes we pulled a coromol wind up off roader plus work tools for about 2 years and 35,000ks sitting on 90kmh.
in fifth on a straight no headwind 100kmh no worries just be sure you drop back to 4th before labouring the engine and box.
I know it sounds a bit slow but 90kmh in 4th is the go cheers temp never went above 85c cheers

[rover-56]

if it is a fullu baffled original unit on yours it could be choking up a bit by now.


The last 3 300tdi Def mufflers I have taken off have been non baffled, straight thru absorption type.

Terry

[Bushie]

Should be able to get 100kph in 4th, if it's not then it can't be reving its guts out unless something is slipping (clutch), essentially there's a fixed relationship between revs and speed with a manual for each gear.


Martyn