Classic Vogue LWB vs P38 4.6HSE

[jsb1990]

Greetings Range Rover enthusiasts! I have just registered onthe site in the event you may be able to assist me in my endeavours.

I am intending on purchasing a new car in the near future.For some time I have looked at LWB sedans like the S Class and 7 Series etc.However I’ve recently taken a liking to the Range Rovers and heard about howsmooth and comfortable they are to drive. It will primarily be for city orhighway cruising (and let’s face it, what proportion of owners take these ‘ToorakTractors’ off road anymore?)

I have spent the past day doing a bit of reading up on them.I will be posting this in both the Classic and P38 forum just to hear thearguments for and against each model. My initial instinct suggests that the P38would be the better one to get, being more modern. I have seen a very nice 2001P38 4.6HSE which is obviously the best of this model before they went away withtraditional elegance and in with the new chunky (and in my opinion, ugly) ones.

However, there is something very elegant and timeless aboutthe classics and there are a couple of mid 1990’s Classic LWB Vogue’s that Ialso took a liking to. Obviously some areas are not going to have the samerefinement as the later model, and I suspect worse fuel consumption and lesspower. However, as is often the case, newer often means more technology andultimately more expensive should something go wrong.

What would people’s opinions here be? I obviously am wellversed in the importance of full log book and service history and I will onlybe purchasing a meticulously maintained example. Which will be the morecomfortable one? What sort of ballpark would I be looking at for fuelconsumption? Most of my driving will be stop start city driving. A figure inlitres per hundred I understand, not miles per gallon. Is the factory soundsystem in both models good? I would just really appreciate something of areasonable analysis of both models. I do like the P38 HSE but newer does notalways mean better!

I look forward to hearing from you.

J

[Keithy P38]

Tough question...

A classic Rangie on coils and the injected v8 is a good thing to clock up k's in... So's a P38! They both have their down sides, however as you mention, the newer generally means more to go wrong.

I'm going to say for simplicities sake, get the classic. If you like the tools and are willing to get to know your Rangie inside every crevice then a P38 is the go.

Both ride brilliantly, a P38 is more highway friendly, but at the end of the day you will be repairing something (the suspension most likely) in the near future, so it's up to you which way you go.

The difference in age means the classic rangies have had their 11-18th birthday overhauls where the P38 is in its teens and likely to want some attention to those 'once or twice in a lifetime' things.

Cheers
Keithy

[jsb1990]

Thanks for that Keith. What sort of petrol consumption would I get around the city in a LWB Vogue? I am expecting something in the vicinity of 20 litres per 100km. How about highway driving?

[RR P38]

I havnt done a lot of time behind the wheel of a classic, but they do ride nicely.
I do find the classic a little cramped and feel like the dash and the foot well are being pressed down on me, there isnt a lot of room down there for big feet.
The P38 doesnt get the body roll of the classic.
I think the sound system is brilliant in the 38.
If crash worthiness and safety are a concern I think the 38 wins.
I dont think any one will argue with me saying the 38 handles better.
Fuel consumption around town 20-21 per hundred, its pretty bad.
Highway I can get 12.5-13.5 per hundred.
Reliability, and some people will laugh but I cant say I have had any breakdowns in 13yrs, lots of things go wrong and as has been pointed out before, you need to work on the 38 a lot. I enjoy working on mine.
Log books are bull#$%^ I find, no mechanic has touched my RR in years.
Dont be afraid to buy something that has been owned a long time by someone who cares about their rig even if it has high milage.

[Dougal]

Price up the wheel bearings for each and get back to us.

Don't put either on coils. It's only a good idea to Americans who are scared of anything more complex than a leaf spring.

[RR P38]

In aussie, bearing cost only is about the same. $50-80 a corner for bearings.

With the P38 if you cant get the bearings out.....difficult! you need to replace the hub...$305 a corner.

[Vern]

I havnt done a lot of time behind the wheel of a classic, but they do ride nicely.
I do find the classic a little cramped and feel like the dash and the foot well are being pressed down on me, there isnt a lot of room down there for big feet.
The P38 doesnt get the body roll of the classic.
I think the sound system is brilliant in the 38.
If crash worthiness and safety are a concern I think the 38 wins.
I dont think any one will argue with me saying the 38 handles better.
Fuel consumption around town 20-21 per hundred, its pretty bad.
Highway I can get 12.5-13.5 per hundred.
Reliability, and some people will laugh but I cant say I have had any breakdowns in 13yrs, lots of things go wrong and as has been pointed out before, you need to work on the 38 a lot. I enjoy working on mine.
Log books are bull#$%^ I find, no mechanic has touched my RR in years.
Dont be afraid to buy something that has been owned a long time by someone who cares about their rig even if it has high milage.are you comparing a RR classic vs a P38, or a LSE (assume soft dash)vs P38, two completely different cars.

[Keithy P38]

On the topic of bearings/hubs - get your hub outta the UK and you'll save a lotta coin...

As RRP38 says, a long term owner P38 is more likely to have been loved.

Everyone's fuel consumption figures seem to be different here! My '99 Bosch 4.6 HSE averages 14.5 to 15l/100km around town and fully loaded with an oztent and foxwing wind-catcher on the roof will see 13l/100km for me on the highway. Empty ill get 10.5 to 11l/100km on the highway.

[Dougal]

On the topic of bearings/hubs - get your hub outta the UK and you'll save a lotta coin...

As RRP38 says, a long term owner P38 is more likely to have been loved.

Everyone's fuel consumption figures seem to be different here! My '99 Bosch 4.6 HSE averages 14.5 to 15l/100km around town and fully loaded with an oztent and foxwing wind-catcher on the roof will see 13l/100km for me on the highway. Empty ill get 10.5 to 11l/100km on the highway.

How are you determining 11 litres per 100 on the highway?

[Keithy P38]

Odo + GPS from full fill to first click. Then refuel to first click (at the same servo too funny enough, I only fill up at the same place unless I'm a long way from home).

My odo over a tank of fuel is within 2km of the GPS anyway.

Trip computer is usually within 0.3l/100km of actual.

[benji]

Reset the litres per 100 on the dash today at 100; im getting 11.6. Injectors have just been cleaned and fuel pressure is bang on - tested it myself. Around town I'm getting 15.

It may pay to look at who has done the servicing in the log books, if its not someone who specialises in landrover, take a photo of the service records on your phone and write them up here.

I really have a soft spot for the lse's too, and would love to have mine as a daily driver; but as they're quite rare im not willing to risk damage like I do in the p38. Also with two kids under 3 safety plays the biggest part. If something were to go wrong the p38 is considerably stronger, especially in the roof.

Electrically they are suprisingly similar - even sharing some ecus. Id say the p38 is more electrically reliable though harder to diagnose when something does go wrong.

Mechanically they are similar too. The classic would have less engine trouble, but thats mainly because of people overheating engines - lack of attention and lack of maintenance.

In my 93 classic (same as an lse ) I got 18l around town and 12.7 on the hwy loaded.

For hwy use only, and given how steep the roads can be in tassie id be going a p38.