Bolts tightened now turbo whistles. Why?

[alittlebitconcerned]

Hello all.

I recently had a new decat pipe installed in my Puma.
During the process a bolt snapped off which meant the turbo had to come out as well. No drama.

The mechanic said to drop around afer a few weeks so he could check the tighness of all the bolts to make sure they had bedded properly and I did that today. One of his young guys put a rattle gun over all the bolts they touched during the install and said all was good.

After leaving I heard an obvious turbo whistle that wasnt there before.
I also heard once the sound of something that I can only describe as a high speed metallic 'flapping' sound that slowed down and disappeared as I came to a stop. I haven't heard that 'flapping' sound again in the last hour I've been driving but the turbo whistle is there. It's not loud, but it is there.

What I'm wondering is...

A) Had bolts loosened after the decat was installed and the turbo put back on? Now they have been tightened back up I can hear the result of extra boost in the form of turbo whistle which I will come to love? Or...

B ) The rattle gunning young bloke snapped a bolt resulting in gasses escaping which is making the turbo whistle. Or...

C) None of the above, phone a friend or use a lifeline Eddie.

I'm taking it back tomorrow for the mechanic to have a look see, he thought mabey it something to do with the heat shield (?).
Regardless , I'm interested in what others think the reason is.

Cheers.

[bitdist]

I'd go for B especially if they went near the exhaust manifold

[alittlebitconcerned]

Thanks for the reply. Do you think A) is not possible? Trying to look on the bright side.

[LandyAndy]

Surpises me that one would use a rattlegun to check bolt tension:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
Wouldnt be surprised if he broke one:o:o:o:o:o
Andrew

[alittlebitconcerned]

That's what I thought. Not much 'feel' in a rattle gun I would think.

[Blknight.aus]

I smell a screwed gasket or a warped manifold.

Id also be looking around for a tub of tigerbalm to lube the rattle gun with before you jammed it up the young blokes clacker as you smacked him in the face with a torque wrench.

[LandyAndy]

I smell a screwed gasket or a warped manifold.

Id also be looking around for a tub of tigerbalm to lube the rattle gun with before you jammed it up the young blokes clacker as you smacked him in the face with a torque wrench.

Spannerboy may be alittlebitconcerned:D:D:D:D:D
Get some pics:cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:
Andrew

[alittlebitconcerned]

I smell a screwed gasket or a warped manifold.

Id also be looking around for a tub of tigerbalm to lube the rattle gun with before you jammed it up the young blokes clacker as you smacked him in the face with a torque wrench.

Because I've had a turbo whistle in the past I thought I already had a warped manifold and/or stuffed gasket before the decat pipe install.
I bought a 3mm annealed copper gasket, stronger bolts and nord lock washers and had the mechanic use these instead of the standard stuff.. I also asked him to run a straight edge over the face to see if there was any warp and there was none.
It turned out that the previous whistle was only due to the turbo bolts on the manifold side working loose. Either way I now know I have a warp free face, upgraded copper gasket, bolts and washers... and now a turbo whistle.

With all of this good stuff used on the decat pipe install is there any other reason I would be now getting the turbo whistle aside from them busting the bolts? Hoping not to need the Tiger Balm but it's in the glove box ready.

[LandyAndy]

Maybe give it a week or 2,by this time you SHOULD be able to see soot stains if there is a gasket leak.
Give spannerboy the tigerbalm anyhow just as a life learning thing;);););)
ENJOY
Andrew

[Roverlord off road spares]

Why get anal about torque figures when you just rattle gun everything NOT

[B92 8NW]

Why get anal about torque figures when you just rattle gun everything NOT

Sounds like he's going to get anal regardless...:eek:














It's ok, I'll show myself out:cool:.

[shorty943]

You might also consider informing the head mechanic about his "young gun".
There's a good reason all manufacturers set torque figures for all nuts and bolts on all kinds of machinery.

And I agree with the Tiger Balm idea too.

[alittlebitconcerned]

I went back this morning and the Mechanic said the seal between the turbo and manifold was stuffed. He couldn't say what was going wrong but it's getting pulled out on friday and he assures me it will be sorted out that day.

In defense of the young guy with a nervous eye on the tiger balm, the boss was there looking over his shoulder at the time he was working. I asked the boss this morning why a rattle gun was used to test tightmess and he said it was not possible to use anything else in that location, ie the three 8mm bolts at the back of the turbo. He also said there was not enough power in the rattle gun (it was a cordless) to snap the 8.8 tensile bolts that were used.

If not a busted bolt what else could it be?

[justinc]

I've used them in tight spaces before, too. You need to be experienced with air tools to use them PROPERLY. As regards the electric ones, they usually have MORE torque than air operated ones, and very little 'feel'. I own a little 3/8" rattle gun, it is a beauty for doing up sump bolts (NOT drain plugs) after resealing, and has not much torque set on max than you can exert with a 6" 3/8" drive bar. I also use 3/8", and even a little 1/4" air ratchet for the even harder to reach places....

JC

[Blknight.aus]

Hello all.

I recently had a new decat pipe installed in my Puma.
During the process a bolt snapped off which meant the turbo had to come out as well. No drama.

Ok I can maybe see a bolt snapped during dump pipe removal... Now I havent done a puma yet but if I can jag the back two headstuds on the back of a TD5 Im quietly confident that with the dump pipe off you can drill the bolts out of a puma donks turbo dump flange with a right angle drill and then hand tap/helicoil it.



The mechanic said to drop around afer a few weeks so he could check the tighness of all the bolts to make sure they had bedded properly and I did that today. One of his young guys put a rattle gun over all the bolts they touched during the install and said all was good.

sounds like how it was installed too, getting a flange on an angle over a decent gasket and then cranking it down on the opposing faces is a good way to snap or strip off a bolt thats already tightened close to its breaking point.



After leaving I heard an obvious turbo whistle that wasnt there before.
I also heard once the sound of something that I can only describe as a high speed metallic 'flapping' sound that slowed down and disappeared as I came to a stop. I haven't heard that 'flapping' sound again in the last hour I've been driving but the turbo whistle is there. It's not loud, but it is there.

What I'm wondering is...


it could be a stuffed gasket, in fact it was.

If you get a gasket installed with one corner tightened up and then you compress it using the other mounting bolts it can "ripple" near the ends that were loose if it runs out of room to move, its part of the reason for the start in the middle and work your way out method of doing up head bolts and why you also dong just go right the way up to full torque in one shot.


I went back this morning and the Mechanic said the seal between the turbo and manifold was stuffed. He couldn't say what was going wrong but it's getting pulled out on friday and he assures me it will be sorted out that day.

In defense of the young guy with a nervous eye on the tiger balm, the boss was there looking over his shoulder at the time he was working. I asked the boss this morning why a rattle gun was used to test tightmess and he said it was not possible to use anything else in that location, ie the three 8mm bolts at the back of the turbo. He also said there was not enough power in the rattle gun (it was a cordless) to snap the 8.8 tensile bolts that were used.

Apart from being the normal grade of bolt used in most automotive applications, faff, do it just wrong enough and you can snap an m8 8.8 bolt with a 1/4 inch drive socket its not the turning action that usually does it its the mechanical leverage being applied as you tighten something up in its not natural resting position then it wants to move to its natural position

[alittlebitconcerned]

When you say that a gasket can get a "ripple" on one corner, does that mean it is stuffed for good? Can it be filed? Remember it's a 3mm annealed copper type. Also, would the ripple be visible?

The bolt that snapped when putting the turbo back on was the banjo bolt. I thought they had overtightened it but the mechanic said it had been overtightened previously so was already weak. How that was determined I don't know.
He turned a new one on the lathe from a similar sized bolt because LR only sell that bolt as part of an exspensive kit. That bolt cost me about $100.

[flagg]

What should a turbo manifold & flange be torqued too? (also thinking 4BD1 here)

[PAT303]

I've used them in tight spaces before, too. You need to be experienced with air tools to use them PROPERLY. As regards the electric ones, they usually have MORE torque than air operated ones, and very little 'feel'. I own a little 3/8" rattle gun, it is a beauty for doing up sump bolts (NOT drain plugs) after resealing, and has not much torque set on max than you can exert with a 6" 3/8" drive bar. I also use 3/8", and even a little 1/4" air ratchet for the even harder to reach places....

JC

Same here,rattle are seriously one of the best tools available when working in tight spaces or for getting work done at a good pace and I've worn the handle smooth on mine as it's used every day,on the flip side they can be seriously good at sending straight forward jobs into nightmares if used by less inteligent people or your typical gen Y'er who's too busy worrying about being on facetube or youbook instead of the work at hand. Pat

[Blknight.aus]

When you say that a gasket can get a "ripple" on one corner, does that mean it is stuffed for good? Can it be filed? Remember it's a 3mm annealed copper type. Also, would the ripple be visible?

The bolt that snapped when putting the turbo back on was the banjo bolt. I thought they had overtightened it but the mechanic said it had been overtightened previously so was already weak. How that was determined I don't know.
He turned a new one on the lathe from a similar sized bolt because LR only sell that bolt as part of an exspensive kit. That bolt cost me about $100.

mate youve just been done.

if they were worth a pinch of fetid monkey **** when they undid the banjo bolt they would have noticed the damage and could have done up a new one or ordered an appropriate banjo bolt in.

no once you ripple a gasket its rooted. it can be fixed by bogging but thats just putting a bandaid on a ****ty repair job.

what happens is essentially the wedge principle if you tighten up a gasket tight on one corner then tighten up the others as the wedge shape gets flattened out the gasket deforms, if it runs out of room to move up against the other bolts it buckles near the bolts you havent done up. or are now doing up in extreme cases the leading edge of the wedge will turn into a pivot point the flange becomes a lever and the bolts you are doing up become an applied force against the bolt youve done up and youve stuffed a bolt too. if it doesnt get stuffed straight up if the flange hasnt settled in its normal position whatever its attached to becomes a lever and can work against the now overstressed bolt... just how long is the pipe on the flange?


an air ratchet or a butterfly ratchet is a great tool to use to get nuts and bolts up and they give you reasonable feel on how much torque you are putting onto the bolts. but for final torquing or if you don't get them started evenly, evil and should earn the guys who screw jobs like this up with them the upthe clacker with the tigerbalm treatment.

mind you with all thats coming to light I wouldnt be surprised to learn that theyve bodged it enough for it not to be the flange but a crap weld thats leaking.