Cheap Gen 3's

[Robsrod 58]

Has any one been brave enough to try the alternative Gen 3 air bags?

I havn't seen any BAD reports yet, maybe a good omen.

Rob

SET OF High Performance Front Rear AIR Suspension Spring BAG FOR Range Rover | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/290697244621'ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649)

[Keithy P38]

They look much the same...

I'd give them a go! Would save you $450 on Arnotts!

If they last you 5 years they've done well.

[Robsrod 58]

They look much the same...

I'd give them a go! Would save you $450 on Arnotts!

If they last you 5 years they've done well.

Yeah, thats what I'm thinking....

I'm searching for bad feed back now, there's a lot to go through!

[Keithy P38]

Let us know, at that price I'd buy a set as spares.

[benji]

Another one is touring tech, which I had on my classic and they were perfect in terms of quality.
On fleabay they've gen 3 style p38 bags, but they're the same length as standard.

[Robsrod 58]

Another one is touring tech, which I had on my classic and they were perfect in terms of quality.
On fleabay they've gen 3 style p38 bags, but they're the same length as standard.

Length hey...

Thats worth a question. I' ll fire off a email.

Rob

[stickso]

Those ebay ones look like a good option. From the description:

"This air spring features a solid piston CNC-machined from solid billet 6061-T6 aluminum. This piston creates a lower spring rate off-road and a higher spring rate in highway mode. This air spring also features a longer air spring bladder for extended travel. This air spring upgrade will result in superior handling both on and off road, and increased durability - guaranteed. "

[Robsrod 58]

Those ebay ones look like a good option. From the description:

"This air spring features a solid piston CNC-machined from solid billet 6061-T6 aluminum. This piston creates a lower spring rate off-road and a higher spring rate in highway mode. This air spring also features a longer air spring bladder for extended travel. This air spring upgrade will result in superior handling both on and off road, and increased durability - guaranteed. "

Maybe I should read the ad a bit better. Anyway they are getting back to me with the extended length.

[Keithy P38]

I did post an extended bellow length in here at some stage. I think 380mm from memory for a rear gen III one.

[wayneg]

A good find on e-bay. There was a seller an alibaba who sold them for $40 each but has long disappeared. I would have no hesitation in buying them at at such a cheaper rate than Arnotts. I would like to hear any reviews from anyone who takes the plunge.

[Robsrod 58]

I did post an extended bellow length in here at some stage. I think 380mm from memory for a rear gen III one.

I found your post on that Keith and forwarded it on . Should get a response tomorrow.

Also I could not find any bad feedback on them.

Rob

[Robsrod 58]

They got back to me with a very vague answer. I have emailed a person who actually bought a set in Feb, waiting on a response but I'm not holding my breath.

I'll give him a couple more days and I might take the plunge and buy a set since Arnotts just quoted me for a set of Gen 111's US$1016 delivered Bit hexy!!

Just to digress slightly, my rear bags have a hand full of fine cracks on the roll, can any one tell me if this is considered bad at this point .

Rob

[Keithy P38]

It's normal signs of wear with age.

Getting close to bag retirement day!

[stickso]

They got back to me with a very vague answer. I have emailed a person who actually bought a set in Feb, waiting on a response but I'm not holding my breath.

I'll give him a couple more days and I might take the plunge and buy a set since Arnotts just quoted me for a set of Gen 111's US$1016 delivered Bit hexy!!

Just to digress slightly, my rear bags have a hand full of fine cracks on the roll, can any one tell me if this is considered bad at this point .

Rob

Mine are looking the same so I'll be trying the ebay ones too before long.

[benji]

I just recieved a quote of $255 shipping from arnott this morning, so it all adds up.
Admittantly I drive until they start leaking, probably not the best thing; but they sometimes last a lot longer than you'd think.

Rob I'm very interested in the answer they gave you; touring tech said their's are to gen3 spec(what every that is), and are replacement springs only and would only warrant them with OEM shocks. I also got told that they wouldn't give me any more lift or articulation... REALLY:censored:!

[Robsrod 58]

I just recieved a quote of $255 shipping from arnott this morning, so it all adds up.
Admittantly I drive until they start leaking, probably not the best thing; but they sometimes last a lot longer than you'd think.

Rob I'm very interested in the answer they gave you; touring tech said their's are to gen3 spec(what every that is), and are replacement springs only and would only warrant them with OEM shocks. I also got told that they wouldn't give me any more lift or articulation... REALLY:censored:!

Your right Benji at US$195.21, I was quoted for post your AU$255 spot on.

You got more out of touring tech than I did. I wouldn't be surprised if they are the same bag from different vendors.

This is the response I received from the seller--

"Hello,
Unfortunately I can't find out the full length of these air springs unless we install them on a vehicle. The only thing I can do is try to match them up with OEM part numbers or the VIN of your vehicle.

Adan
Buyautoparts
1-858-200-0511" Gee thats helpful!!

I,m not particular about extra lift as I mainly do touring and moderate off road. I'm looking for best value for $, I'm even considering a set of standard springs.

Rob

[benji]

Yeh not much to go on.

Touring tech quality is good, but then standard bags last a while too. Depends on the spring rates you want.

[Robsrod 58]

Stuff it, I'll take the plunge and buy a set. If they were that bad the yanks would be blowing their tops and I see no evidence of that.......Stay tuned!!

This thread ain't over yet!!

Rob

[Robsrod 58]

They got back to me with a very vague answer. I have emailed a person who actually bought a set in Feb, waiting on a response but I'm not holding my breath.

I'll give him a couple more days and I might take the plunge and buy a set since Arnotts just quoted me for a set of Gen 111's US$1016 delivered Bit hexy!!

Just to digress slightly, my rear bags have a hand full of fine cracks on the roll, can any one tell me if this is considered bad at this point .

Rob
For anybody interested in a set, I received a reply back from a buyer in the US

"hey mate just saw your msg, they are great, really easy to install

I got a price from landrover $2400 plus installation cost

cheers Todd"

Makes me feel better about my purchase!

Rob

[Keithy P38]

We all know they are easy to install! Did he mention anything about the length?

[Robsrod 58]

Nu!

Keithy, it took me a week to extract that bit of info. But i'll find out maybe before I go away, their coming via DHL. Soon as I get I'll post.

Rob

[Keithy P38]

Too easy mate! The beauty of the Internet is that people don't have to check the letterbox for mail anymore and things often get overlooked for days or weeks!

[UK_P38]

Watching this with great interest as I am about to replace my bags. I'm guessing it will come down to a visual inspection of the quality of the new bags, unless you manage to pop one very quickly after installing :o ! The actual manufacturing of the bags is not overly complicated but the difference (if any) will be in the quality of the parts and their construction. I am expecting these to give Arnott a good run for their money...

[Robsrod 58]

Bags arrived today at my wifes work. I'll post my observations and a couple of pics ASAP, any way four days from LA is not too bad though.......stay tuned.

The guy who's comments I posted earlier, bought his bags in Feb, so I presume they havn't popped yet.

Rob

[Robsrod 58]

OK,

First impressions are that they appear to be well made with solid steel crimps on the bags.

They also appear to be longer possibly by about 30mm, could be more, but I'm reluctant to fully extend them. Definitely well machined stepped piston with no dags hanging off.

The bladder is thinner than the standard dunlops and its hard to tell if its natural rubber or synthetic. If their chinese made, and I suspect they are, their not bad quality at all.

I'll fit them when I come back from the corner and see what happens.

Interesting to note it appears that Arnotts have taken down the schematic of their bags!

Rob

[Robsrod 58]

Confirmed, the airbags are as near as can be copies of Arnotts' Gen 111's. Length OA, bag length, piston step and length, down to cut strand plastic top, even the top crimp looks identical. They don't look weak in any way .

Can't wait to put em on, then I can find out what you gen 111 owners all rave about. Might have to get rid of the Bilsteins though.

Rob

[stickso]

Thanks for the early review Rob - just bought a set for myself.

[PaulP38a]

I feel p*ssed off on behalf of Arnotts. These are obviously a direct copy of their design and IP.
If I ever need to replace my Gen III's again (unlikely as they have a lifetime warranty) or buy another P38 and have to change the air springs, I will not buy these Chinese rip-offs.
However, I hope they serve you well.

[stickso]

I wrestled with this before deciding to purchase the ebay ones. Firstly I looked for an Australian distributor for Arnotts - if I'm going to pay more I'd rather an Aussie company get a slice of it where I would have local support. After not finding a local option and knowing I'd then have to deal with an overseas company regardless, plus pay GST + import duty on a >$1000 purchase it put the price difference at around $600 - that's $600 my family could use.

Paul I know you'd feel the sting of this more than most with your experience with Hard Range but this is the world we live in. A friend of mine was manufacturing performance car parts and couldn't compete with the Chinese knockoffs so he met the challenge and opened a manufacturing operation in China. Still an Aussie company and still trading which is better than closing the doors entirely.

I'm sure I'm opening a can of worms and if the air springs fail on me then there's no-one to blame but myself - I've accepted the risk and in weighing up all the pros & cons a difference of $600 is worth it to me. This would be different for each individual.

[benji]

It is a tough one, I do feel for arnotts. Arb are having similar issues with their lockers. Cheap Chinese rip offs are 600 mailed to your door and they even have the arb part number.

Just wonsering if anyone knows wether the $1000gst limit is just the price of the goods or feight costs also.

[stickso]

Pretty sure that it's only once the value excluding freight exceeds A$1000, but once it does exceed the limit the GST is also calculated on the freight. So in this example it'd probably escape customs and GST if bought now, but the way the AUD is going that may not be the case much longer.

Getting a bit off topic now sorry guys.

[wayneg]

I feel p*ssed off on behalf of Arnotts. These are obviously a direct copy of their design and IP.
If I ever need to replace my Gen III's again (unlikely as they have a lifetime warranty) or buy another P38 and have to change the air springs, I will not buy these Chinese rip-offs.
However, I hope they serve you well.

I agree with your sentiments however unless manufactures can compete on price they are always going to lose sales to those who otherwise could not afford a product. You dont even have to go past this forum who run advertisements for DealExtreme to see the way the world is going. I am sure you are aware Dx are the pervayers of a multitude of "Branded" items.

[clubagreenie]

It's cost of goods, plus freight, plus customs duty then calculate GST on that total.

[RR P38]

It is a tough one, I do feel for arnotts. Arb are having similar issues with their lockers. Cheap Chinese rip offs are 600 mailed to your door and they even have the arb part number.

Just wonsering if anyone knows wether the $1000gst limit is just the price of the goods or feight costs also.

Freight is included in the GST calculation for the $1000 duty free limit.
So if $900 for parts and $101 for shipping you will pay $100 GST + what ever they deem the duty on purchased goods to be.

[RR P38]

It is a tough one, I do feel for arnotts. Arb are having similar issues with their lockers. Cheap Chinese rip offs are 600 mailed to your door and they even have the arb part number.

Just wonsering if anyone knows wether the $1000gst limit is just the price of the goods or feight costs also.

Freight is included in the GST calculation for the $1000 duty free limit.
So if $900 for parts and $101 for shipping you will pay $100 GST + what ever they deem the duty on purchased goods to be.

[PaulP38a]

When I was importing the Gen II and III's for resale through Hard Range, I was buying several sets at a time so I always copped the import duty and GST, and then a processing fee from the shipping company.
If I sold a set of Gen III's for less than $990 I was losing money. I did sell quite a few sets for less just to get cash back in to the business.
In the end, I was referring people direct to Arnotts as they could get it under the $1k limit and avoid the extra $.
I completely understand why people will go for a lesser known and cheaper product rather than the "original". I have done it myself on a range of products for personal and professional use.
I guess this one is just close to home for me, having had close dealings with Arnotts, who are essentially another family business.

Stickso, you are completely correct though - we all have individual experiences and motivations. We make our decisions based on bias, risk and value. Not a negative thing, it is reality.

Again, I reiterate... I wish you well and have no malice... I have my own opinions is all ;)

Cheers, Paul.

[996TURBO]

A friend of mine bought some chinese Gen3 copies and they failed very quickly.

The bladder isn't the same quality material at all. The crimp rings are not crimped with the same strength.

That guy is running Terrafirma shocks all around like me.

He was refounded and got some genuine Arnott.

[stickso]

My cheap gen3's arrived today - hope the quality is as good as the speed of delivery.

If I have any issues or concerns I'll report back but to reflect Rob's report the observable quality appears quite high. Time will tell!

[Robsrod 58]

Hey Stickso,

Have you fitted your fau Gen 111's yet?
I havn't had time as yet to fit mine. Too busy with bathroom reno!

Rob

[stickso]

Yep, fitted them the day after I received them. No issues with the fitment and I'm really happy with the ride. Haven't had a chance to get offroad yet but very keen to see how they go.

[996TURBO]

Yep, fitted them the day after I received them. No issues with the fitment and I'm really happy with the ride. Haven't had a chance to get offroad yet but very keen to see how they go.
They'll go very quick out of the upper crimp ring:twisted::wasntme:

[stickso]

Thanks for the warning. There's a 12 month warranty on these but I'd rather not have to rely on it. I got out for a quick offroad bash on the weekend - much less bouncy than the OEM airbags with the suspension on high so pleased with that at least.

Quick question - are the rubber airbags on Arnott's Gen3's as thick as the OEM airbags? Or are they thinner? Just curious.

[Keithy P38]

The "genuine" Gen III's are a thicker rubber.

[Robsrod 58]

OK guys,

FYI, I've had these gen 3 copies on the car now for 14 months now and done about 10,000K's, with the biggest trip fully loaded Cameron corner and back.

I can report that if you were to purchase a set of these, for the price you will not be disappointed. No leaks, no chaffing, and no cracks forming in the bag. Coupled with the Bilsteins it really is a wondrous ride.

I know the chinese don't have a great reputation for copying stuff but if they put their minds to it they can do marvellous things.

Rob.

[blindin]

Good thread, I may even look for them myself when & if I can replace my bags. Just out of interest, was the extended length any better than standard, or as much as the gen3?
My opinion on the prices, and Chinese copies, is that you generally know that the quality isn't going to be as good, but the price difference is to great to ignore. I struggle to understand how I can buy the same parts from the uk, get them shipped over in under a week ( from over east to Perth generally takes about 2 weeks from my experience ) and have the parts arrive at my door at about a third of the price I could buy here.????
I would Always try to spend my money here, but at such a great price difference.
It is wrong though how companies spend big money to design, only to have it copied. maybe they should think about running a Chinese company with the design so that they can join them. As they say, if you can't beat them, Join them.
P.s Only really wrote this so I can see any further reports!

[Robsrod 58]

Hey Blindin,

Maybe I can answer that this way.

Yes, I agree I would much rather spend my money in Aus and support locals, BUT there are a lot of people out here that are prepared to take your money at a higher rate simply because supply and demand says so .

There are plenty of roof rack manufacturers out there flogging rack bars at a ridiculously high price simply because they own the extrusion die...

I haven't owned genuine Arnnots' but these have considerably greater travel than the standard Dunlops plus, as per my earlier photos they have the same bottom piston.

Rob

[blindin]

do you also run them with a suspension lift?
and any advice withs shocks? Are you still running terrafirmas? ( I think thats what I read. lol )

[Robsrod 58]

No suspension lift as I'm more into touring than hard core 4wding, "Hoover" is fitted with Bilsteins shocks.


I can't comment on other shock brands as these are the only set other than standards that I've had. I'm sure there are plenty of different shocks out there for others to comment on.


Rob

[blindin]

Hi, I am in the market for some replica gen 3 springs. If I could afford them, I would buy genuine, but I can't. ( so please, not after a debate about Chinese knock offs. lol )
The only ones I can find are from the us on ebay, but they want about $300 for postage, can some one point me in the right direction please.
The reason for needing new ones is because I had a punture yesterday, so will only be doing the rears for now.
Later on I will replace the shocks for longer, to make use of the extra travel in the springs.
Is there a cheaper way for the shocks? I've heard patrol shocks will fit I think ( standard patrol shocks, same mount, but longer ) or this might be for a d2.
Any way, thanks for the assisstance.

[benji]

I had westar knockoffs on my classic rangie and they were great, not a single concern about quality and they were given a very hard time!

I'm not sure about shocks sorry.

Sent from my GT-I9305T using AULRO mobile app

[Hoges]

Just a thought...While Patrol shocks may fit physically, their characteristics might be unsuitable for the air sprung P38. P38 Airbags are fairly harsh in standard form... from reading extensively, it appears the best shocks for a "smooth" ride are those which have minimum compresion damping but strong rebound damping...

[blindin]

I went to the website and couldn't seem to get any details or prices, so I just bit the bullet, and done the buy it now button on e-bay.
I found a different set with lower postage, I hope they will be ok.
Land Rover Range Rover Complete AIR Suspension BAG Spring SET Upgraded 3rd GEN | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Land-Rover-Range-Rover-Complete-Air-Suspension-Bag-Spring-Set-Upgraded-3rd-Gen/200987587190?_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1% 26asc%3D20131017132637%26meid%3D06e9f1507df64700af 6a01fee1d62d1c%26pid%3D100033%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%2 6sd%3D200987587190)

[blindin]

Thanks Hodges, I'll have a look into that.
For some reason you don't have a thanks button???
Cheers Simon

[LandyAndy]

Thanks Hodges, I'll have a look into that.
For some reason you don't have a thanks button???
Cheers Simon

I see his thanks button,try logging out clearing cookies and logging back in.Its worked for me in the past with the same issue.
Andrew

[TheTree]

The BritPart foamcell shocks are not expensive and have the soft compression / hard rebound characteristics.

I find them pretty good!

Steve

[Scouse]

Gen3 copies:
SET OF High Performance Front Rear AIR Suspension Spring BAG FOR Range Rover | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/290697244621'ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649)


There's a thread here about them:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/p38a-range-rover/178725-cheap-gen-3s.html

[DT-P38]

Mod's, any chance of merging the thread? And then perhaps we can request an update from those out there that have been running them for years now... all kept in the one place.

[DT-P38]

... perhaps we can request an update from those out there that have been running them for years now... all kept in the one place.

Thanks Mod's.

So anyone still running these?

Still on the original set purchased?

Lost any? Due to what?

Tried them with lift kits?

Over extended/dangled a diff?

Adopted limiting straps?

Any updates and info appreciated.

[secco]

I've just fitted a pair of the ebay US Gen III clones from "Buy Auto parts".
The quality looks good and fitting was straightworward. Time will tell on longevity. Handling seems firmer than my 20 year old leaky Dunlops (as you would expect).

[benji]

Does the bladder have a brand name on it?
It'd upset arnott if they were continental bladders!

Sent from my SM-G900I using AULRO mobile app

[blindin]

Still waiting for mine to turn up.
However when ordering they said they had run out of their own brand and had ordered a rear set from arnott, and I was getting genuine rear arnott, generic front. I'm looking forward to getting them. How do I know if they really are arnott gen 3? Also how do I know if they are gen 3 anyway? Is it just the shape of the cone?

[Keithy P38]

Gen III's (from Arnott) use continental bags, alloy pistons. The length will determine if your fakies are "the same" as the real deal Gen III's.

[benji]

They will have the logo, ans stickers on them. The new airspring i got last friday had a different style sticker on it.
Gen3 was an arnott term, but others have used it also and just refers to the shape of the piston.

Sent from my SM-G900I using AULRO mobile app

[Keithy P38]

You're right there Benji!

One thing to keep in mind if purchasing "no-name" Gen III's is the bag length. As Benji says, they call them Gen III's based on piston shape, but are the bags themselves the same length fully extended??

Food for thought...

Cheers
Keithy

[Keithy P38]

Just re-igniting this one. I'm not sure when Rob fitted the generic/non-arnott Gen III's to his (now my) P38, but I do have some pics you may be interested in...

After a few years (maybe 2 or 3) of being on the P38, the crimp rings on the no-name Gen III's are corroded quite bad. I had the Rangie on a hoist yesterday as a part of roadworthy and it's not isolated to one spring.

If I wasn't using my phone right now I'd put the pics up.

The Arnott Gen III's on the blue Rangie are nearly 5yrs old and there is no corrosion whatsoever (and we all know the places my P38 has been).

Will jump on the laptop and upload them when I get a sec.

Cheers
Keithy

[Keithy P38]

These are the rears


http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=94445&d=1432767846


http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=94446&d=1432767903

[mtb_gary]

Keith


Is the corrosion something you picked up or the roadworthy crew? BTW did it pass the roadworthy test?


Gary

[Keithy P38]

It wasn't anything holding up the roadworthy. EDIT: My mechanic picked up the corrosion and showed me when I went in yesterday to pick it up.

As a P38 it passed with flying colours! The LPG side of things let me down big time. No heat shielding on gas feed lines in close proximity to the exhaust, and an LPG line that was being rubbed by the panhard rod in the rear. I rectified both today and it'll be getting its roadworthy tomorrow.

It took me most of today to sort the LPG issues. Oh, it needed a new drag link as well (which I happened to have sitting in the garage!).

Cheers
Keithy