what length of synthetic rope?? on a PTO

[weeds]

picking up on a post from roverescue about having a shorter rope of maybe larger diameter rope......

now most electrics will hold 30m

just worked out the max. capacity my PTO can hold.....70m of 10mm rope....i know i know this is having the rope wound on nice and neat like i would with my steel rope using every mm3 of the drum....but i needed a starting point oh and the fact it would bind on the cradle due to the amount of rope....umm thats if i have my maths right as my 11mm steel rope takes up most of the drum although i have no idea of what length it is...probably a lots of wasted space

i have read about criss crossing the rope but why does every winch fitted with synthetic rope that i have seen has the rope spooled on nice and neat like my steel rope????? criss crossing would reduce the length of rope you can fit

i do like roverescues idea of a shorter rope and a few extensions......?

in my last to winch jobs i reckon any thing shorter than 30m would have there would have been much left on the drum....

30m of rope?......and get two 14m winch extensions (another 30m rope cut in two) some time down the track.....although 30m may look a little silly on the size drum i have but it might be the most sensable option

40m of rope?......again get a winch extension later

50m of rope?......don't worry about extensions ever?

some might say i am over engineering this.....

[Tusker]

re crisscrossing, synthetic needs to be spooled on under load. If you don't, the rope under winching road will jam down in the lower layers never to be freed without cutting. More so than wire rope. So, crisscross if winding on by hand, or load it up & wind on normally. After a day trip I just attach to a tree at home, in neutral, & a light load with the foot brake & wind in.

re rope length, the winch is most efficient on the bottom layer. All quoted load ratings refer to the bottom layer. Well Warn anyway.

For competition use, a short rope gets closer to the bottom layer, enabling a single line pull. For recreational use, it's easier on the winch to take your time and use a snatch block. Me, I put 150 ft of sythetic on the hi-mount, always use a snatch block, & have a synthetic extension rope if necessary.

Regards
Max P

[roverrescue]

Weeds,
once you actually play with rope you will see just how easy it is to use ;)
I would run with 30-40m of 12mm on the drum and then lengths of 10mm for extensions.

In order to join the extensions you could go to the trouble of putting spliced ends but i have found if you just tie a bow-line in the rope, snig it tight by hand and then winch away (even to stall on my 12,000) it will amazingly undo.
This means you can use a 30m extension at say just 10m of extension by tieing the bowline mid length.

The benefit of keeping some rope off the drum is it is not out in the weather and sun.

If you are worried about how the winch drum "looks" being half filled then that is not an issue I can help with ;)

The benefit of your PTO is that you can spool it in so quickly. The other option is to put all the rope on the drum and then you have a built in extension and just use a snatch block if you are close to an anchor.

I like having a short rope on the drum as the 12,000 could not be accused of spooling in quickly.

S

[isuzutoo-eh]

I was talking about this topic at the club meeting earlier this week!
PTO winches are different to electric winches. Instead of a poxy 6HP or less sparky motor, you have a bloody great diesel turning it. A big burly diesel that will hardly notice if you have one wrap or 100 wraps around the drum.
I was talking to a bloke (a mech eng) who had a PTO winch on his Rangie, he reckoned you are more likely to snap the rope than run out of oomph no matter how many turns on the drum. The sheer pin or clutch is more to protect the rope than any other part of the system.
Although I am very willing to hear other opinions on this matter...

[weeds]

Me, I put 150 ft of sythetic on the hi-mount, always use a snatch block, & have a synthetic extension rope if necessary.

Regards
Max P


thanks Max.....what size rope are you running?

[roverrescue]

One drawback of having all your rope on the drum is after a long mud slog I pull the rope off the drum and soak it in a Nally to clean then hang it up to dry.

I could see that being fun with 70m of rope! 30 is bad enough.

I guess the point is you sometimes need long lengths but you often only need a short length.

Keep your extensions clean and dry in the cab and have a working length on the drum?

(Can anyone else tell theat i am a little delerious in my thought process at the moment?)

Please excuse me

Steve

[Tusker]

thanks Max.....what size rope are you running?

I went with 11mm.. overkill, but it'll last forever.

Mark, we must have been talking to the same person about PTO's at the meeting! The trouble with them is you can't tell how hard they're working until the pin lets go. At least with an electric you can hear it labouring, stop, arrange a double or triple line pull etc.

I have been on a club trip with someone with a PTO. He refused to recover anyone else, on the grounds the shear pins were for his use only.

Recoveries of other vehicles are the only real downside to synthetic rope. Your dragging the rope over rocks etc, fraying starts. With self recovery of course, the rope is stationary.

Regards
Max P

[weeds]

I went with 11mm.. overkill, but it'll last forever.

Mark, we must have been talking to the same person about PTO's at the meeting! The trouble with them is you can't tell how hard they're working until the pin lets go. At least with an electric you can hear it labouring, stop, arrange a double or triple line pull etc. i loaded mine up the other week pulling a tree stump out and you can tell to an extent the load increasing on the winch i.e. front suspension dropping and a few creaks ans crones

I have been on a club trip with someone with a PTO. He refused to recover anyone else, on the grounds the shear pins were for his use only. umm, what if he got into a position where he needed somebody else to say winch him backwards.........does everybody else say their recovery gear is only for their car only??

on sheer pins....its something i should track down, i would imagine it would be a pain to replace one in the field considering you would still be stuck

Recoveries of other vehicles are the only real downside to synthetic rope. Your dragging the rope over rocks etc, fraying starts. With self recovery of course, the rope is stationary.

Regards
Max P

thanks Max

i have had this winch for five years without using it........have used it three times in the last year....the last time i used it was to winch a hugh tree up a creek bed and whilist the wire rope wasn't really an issue to set up i assume synthetic would have been easier

[steveG]

I haven't done a lot of winching, and only have a Warn XD9000 which will take about 30m max (think I'm running about 10 or 11mm rope).
Circumstances resulted in me buying a 50m rope, so I've simply cut it in half and made 2 ropes of 25M. One goes on the winch, the other lives in the car.

Pretty sure I'd still do similar if I had a winch that would take a longer rope, as I feel it gives me a bit more flexibility. The spare can be used as an extension for either my winch or someone elses, or used as a strong rope to hold a vehicle in position (easier to tie than a conventional webbing extension).
And as roverrescue said earlier - its less rope to clean the mud/crap out of after a messy trip.

Steve

[Graeme]

a Warn XD9000 which will take about 30m max
Will 30m of 10mm rope fit on an XD9000 without too much effort or is 28m a more hassle-free length?

Edit: Found another post stating that 30m is the correct length.

[Graeme]

I'm favouring 40m of 8mm rather than 30m of 10mm on my XD9000 that will get minimal use. If the D4 gets stuck then its either just too slippery an uphill slope in which case the winch should handle the decent length single line pull or the vehicle is well bogged in which case a snatch block will be needed with 20m pulls better than 15m and 20m extensions better than 15m extensions.

[clubagreenie]

To wrap the synthetic correctly wrap 2 layers and then cris-cross the rope at 45degrees across and back then another 2 layers and repeat. There's a video on the samson rope website that shows it well.

[Loubrey]

To wrap the synthetic correctly wrap 2 layers and then cris-cross the rope at 45degrees across and back then another 2 layers and repeat. There's a video on the samson rope website that shows it well.

X2

I used to be pretty particular about my wire rope's winding and after a day's scouting (civil engineering in Central Africa) with multiple winch recoveries on the average day, I used to unwind the cable and re-seat it by dragging a tractor wheel (tyre and rim) in with the winch to make sure it was seated and ready for the next day.

In comparison the synthetic line looks like a crows nest when wound properly as clubagreenie mentioned. The 45 degrees is a bit academic because no matter how much care you take it just doesn't look as good as a properly wound wire rope.

Having said that I've now been using synthetic for more than 10 years and I will never go back to wire.

Cheers,

Lou