Freelander 2 Buying Advise

[dane_w]

Hi, I have joined the forums as I have shortlisted a Freelander 2 for an upgrade for my Fiance. She's looking at an SUV for her next car and it's come down to a close race between the Subaru Forester and the FL2. Please bare with me as this is going to be a long post :eek:

Budget is $20-30k for the right car. Which will hopefully get us an 08-11 TD4 HSE FL2.

My research has really only just begun, but I am already hearing many horror stories of Land Rover reliability issues, lots of conflicting stories and mostly internet hearsay. So I was hoping to try and dispel some myths and get a clearer decision on whether to buy a FL2 (read LR) or not.

Another reason for this thread is to gather the information already available so that it is easier to search for other people who may be in a similar position to me. (might stop unwanted advice threads from popping up in the future?)

I have had a read through the threads below (2010-2013) and it seems as though people who actually own these cars seem to have hardly any reliability issues?

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/freelander-2/152367-buy-not-2011-freelander-2-sd4-se.html

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/freelander-2/169800-any-advice-buying-used-fl-2-a.html

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/freelander-2/142250-thinking-purchasing-2009-freelander-2-advice-good-idea.html

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/freelander-2/134542-newbie-new-td4-sd4-se-bout-buy-advice.html

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/freelander-2/112954-considering-fl2.html

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/freelander-2/102568-hi-i-am-thinking-buying-freelander-2-se-2010-a.html

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/freelander-2/171665-newbie-looking-advise.html

The car will not be taken offroad at all (maybe unsealed very occasionally) and it will be used for driving mostly on holidays and at least 3 x 6 hour return trips to see my parents each year. As well as towing my car to race tracks (around 5 per year - approx 1800kg with trailer). So the car has to be comfortable for long trips.

The biggest issue I can see is running costs and reliability, I am going to put maintenance costs as a very high priority. With the Subaru I will be able to do 99% of the work myself (including engine/gearbox rebuilding, swaps repairs etc) as the Subaru platform hasn't changed for 20+ years and I know them very well.

I assume basic servicing, even most of the major servicing I will be able to teach myself how to do and i have heard you can get parts delivered from the UK for a fraction of the cost of AUS suppliers.

So what are the known issues to look out for?
Are the LR reliability issues a thing of the past?
Victorian Dealers/Service Departments to avoid or ones that come recommended?

[inside]

Just speaking from my TD4 FL2 ownership experience there's not too much to fear. I have had mine for 5 1/2 years, 88K and during this time I required the power steer pump to be replaced at 18K, LR said that they had a bad batch from a supplier. Other than that I have had no problems except a few weeks ago I broke a radio button which is a bit annoying but not really a vehicle issue.

Major issues do seem non existent on this vehicle. There's been cases of injector failure and rear diff failure but really nothing else. Not anything I would call a "This will happen between X and Y kms so budget for it" type problems. The model is now 6 years old so if there were significant design issues they should be appearing by now. freel2.com (http://www.freel2.com/forum/) will have more issues but as always you'll get the bias towards problems looking at forums.

Servicing is quite cheap if you do it yourself, take it to a dealer and you will pay some LR tax. Parts for a "B" service about $200, an "A" service a bit less. C service is only every 240K so that should be long enough away to not worry about it.

If towing look for a vehicle that already has a bar fitted as adding it later can be expensive due to the electrics. Be aware factory bar is only a 40mm receiver so if you need a special hitch you'll need to fit a Hayman Reese which uses a 50mm receiver.

Other than that not too much. You could have some problems but I'm not sure what they'd be, I guess you can get unlucky with any vehicle but the lack of problems you see here is a reflection of their reliability.

After 5 years I still love driving mine and it really has been an enjoyable experience..... touch wood!

[mikehzz]

I've had a TD4 08 since new and it's a lovely car. I agree with everything inside has said. UK reliability surveys put the FL2 at more reliable than Toyota as a brand. Generally Land Rover as a brand performs poorly in these surveys. The FL2 is the exception it seems.
I'm a member of the Subaru Club as well and there are stories to tell with them. Just been discussing an 07 Forester completely losing its manual gearbox after only 90,000 kms. Religiously dealer serviced too, but now $1850 repairs needed from the same dealer that has been 'servicing' it.
The main downside of a Landy is the sparse dealer network and the general complexity of the cars. They are marvels of modern engineering and you may need the right equipment to properly deal with some of the issues that will inevitably arise no matter the brand. Scarce means higher price unfortunately. I have to say mine has cost me less than my wife's VW of the same age and I have done over twice the kms, a lot of them on hard off road tracks.

[freemander]

I've had a TD4 08 since new and it's a lovely car. I agree with everything inside has said. UK reliability surveys put the FL2 at more reliable than Toyota as a brand. Generally Land Rover as a brand performs poorly in these surveys. The FL2 is the exception it seems.
I'm a member of the Subaru Club as well and there are stories to tell with them. Just been discussing an 07 Forester completely losing its manual gearbox after only 90,000 kms. Religiously dealer serviced too, but now $1850 repairs needed from the same dealer that has been 'servicing' it.
The main downside of a Landy is the sparse dealer network and the general complexity of the cars. They are marvels of modern engineering and you may need the right equipment to properly deal with some of the issues that will inevitably arise no matter the brand. Scarce means higher price unfortunately. I have to say mine has cost me less than my wife's VW of the same age and I have done over twice the kms, a lot of them on hard off road tracks.

I have to agree with the above however in saying that, my mechanic at Ultra Tune Menai (NSW) has been able to perform everything so far that a Land Rover mechanic would do, and at half the price. My service has so far cost no more than your everyday Toyota, Holden or Ford. I was advised by a qualified Land Rover specialist that you don't have to get it serviced through a Land Rover dealer/specialist, as long as the services are kept up-to-date, then continue with who you know and trust. If in the rare case that something needs to be done that your own mechanic cannot do, then Land Rover specialist it is. An average service on my petrol engine has been no back breaker financially, and I would have no hesitation recommending someone to an extremely reliable and capable vehicle, however like any vehicle service is the key.

[mikehzz]

I haven't had a dealer service for well over 100,000kms. There are things like software updates and certain diagnostic and computer issues that only LR or someone with LR gear could do unfortunately.

[dane_w]

Thanks for the response so far guys. It's good to hear direct from the horses mouth rather than trying to trawl through some guy who heard through his brothers friend's uncle that the freelander 2 isn't reliable.

I guess I now just have to put together ongoing costs vs the forester and weigh that up against the general benefits I will get buy purchasing the FL2 (i.e. better road driving, more offroad capability should the need arrive, better interior, a more premium luxury car etc etc). I don't think the Forester even comes close to the FL2 in terms of comfort and luxury, but I guess I will have to go and drive one or two to get a feel for how they drive.

It's good to hear there are no "X will fail at Y kilometers" stories as that is what I was dreading the most.

[inside]

I forgot to mention that, like a lot of modern cars, go through discs and pads relatively quickly. Front pads and discs every 70K, rear pads every 50K with discs every second 50K is what I'm experiencing in the city. It's a DIY job for the average home mechanic.

I've been in a Subaru Forrester and the FL2 is miles above in terms of quality, interior and road feel. The FL2 is a significantly more expensive car though. When I bought mine you could not get a similar class vehicle with 5 star ANCAP, diesel auto with 2 tonne towing other than the FL2.

[freemander]

I haven't had a dealer service for well over 100,000kms. There are things like software updates and certain diagnostic and computer issues that only LR or someone with LR gear could do unfortunately.

It's ok Mike, I checked with Roving Mechanical (Land Rover Specialist) and he said there's been no software updates so where in the clear.

[dane_w]

I forgot to mention that, like a lot of modern cars, go through discs and pads relatively quickly. Front pads and discs every 70K, rear pads every 50K with discs every second 50K is what I'm experiencing in the city. It's a DIY job for the average home mechanic.

I've been in a Subaru Forrester and the FL2 is miles above in terms of quality, interior and road feel. The FL2 is a significantly more expensive car though. When I bought mine you could not get a similar class vehicle with 5 star ANCAP, diesel auto with 2 tonne towing other than the FL2.

50-70k will seem like a dream compared to how often I go through expensive brake pads and discs on my track car :)

Yep, I agree re: build quality. But the 08-11 FL2 HSE is comparable on price with the 09-11 forester XT premium and cheaper than the S-edition version I would most likely want. I know I will get a lot more car for $$$ with the FL2, hence why it is even competing with the forester atm considering I can replace/repair 99% of components on the forester myself.

The towing capacity is the other advantage of the FL2, but I still have my company car to tow with if needed (prefer not to).

[multiLuke]

Firstly, hello to all on the forum. I have been reading the posts here for a few months and learning about the FL2. I took delivery of my 2011 SD4 HSE yesterday and love it. All I hoped it would be and more so far. Looking forward to taking it offraod and putting some way over priced Prados to shame. :p

So, I have recently been comparing vehicles for a similar upgrade as to Dane_w. The main difference is I actually want to go of road, not hard core (I dont have the skills or recovery gear) but its nice to know the car will probably be far more capable than the driver. I came from a Peugeot 307 HDi so am very familiar with the diesel engine and transmission. Fuel economy and reliability were flawless so was keen to stay with the similar build in the FL2.
The only area I think the FL2 is lacking compared to others on the market is space in the back. An example is I could fit my daughters chariot straight in the back of my 307 where as I have to take it apart completely to fit in the FL2. For a car that is 200mm longer than the 307, the space seems to be lost somewhere (probably on the bigger bonnet area).
I am going to assume LandRover dealers are exactly like Peugeot dealers and charge allot more than it really costs for simple services. I always found my local diesel mechanic very good for my Pug and will entrust him with the FL2. But it sounds as though your mechanically very capable so I wouldnt see doing the services yourself a problem.

When I compared the FL2 to all the other vehicles, IMHO, only 2 others come close in terms of performance figures. The Peugeot 4007 (almost exactly the same engine I believe) and the Jeep Grand cherokee (slightly bigger, around Disco3 size). I found the others to be thirstier and/or have less torque. So, the "guts" of the FL2 seemed far better and after only having it 2 days now, I can say I am very happy with choice. So smooth and when you want/need to go a little faster, it there and a bit more. Careful of 19" wheels though on the HSE. They wouldnt be my fisrt choice but mine came with them, and buying a slightly used vehicle privately and not going to change them now. Fewer tyre choices it seems (from reading the posts on this forum).

Hope this helps a little. We always asked ourselves what else is out there but in the end, we always came back to the FL2.
cheers,

[feral 2 go]

Hi Guys'
This is my first post so bear with me please. I have had both, still own the FL2 which is a year old and had the use of a Subi up north as a company car. The FL2 will get to places a Subi won't, it has better Fuel economy, comfort and reliability, It cost me a arm and a leg plus the DNA of my first born for a replacement clutch for the subi. Buy the FL2 you won't regret it. Don't be scared to drive a bargain and haggle the cost difference and things they will add to sell is worth the effort.

Regards

Feral.

[XianR]

I've had a TD4 08 since new and it's a lovely car. I agree with everything inside has said. UK reliability surveys put the FL2 at more reliable than Toyota as a brand. Generally Land Rover as a brand performs poorly in these surveys. The FL2 is the exception it seems.
I'm a member of the Subaru Club as well and there are stories to tell with them. Just been discussing an 07 Forester completely losing its manual gearbox after only 90,000 kms. Religiously dealer serviced too, but now $1850 repairs needed from the same dealer that has been 'servicing' it.
The main downside of a Landy is the sparse dealer network and the general complexity of the cars. They are marvels of modern engineering and you may need the right equipment to properly deal with some of the issues that will inevitably arise no matter the brand. Scarce means higher price unfortunately. I have to say mine has cost me less than my wife's VW of the same age and I have done over twice the kms, a lot of them on hard off road tracks.

It is no achievement, nowadays, to beat Toyota at reliability. How would it compare to Honda or Subaru, though? In this segment, I would look at Volvo XC60, Subaru Forester and Honda CR-V. Each has its own niche but these four can roughly do the same, while each has its own drawbacks as well. Volvo has excellent ground clearance and goes into wild places here in Africa as long as you take a spare wheel along, as it hasn't any. CR-V is spacious, utterly reliable and economical. It lacks space underneath its belly, yet it even has a full-sized spare wheel. Forester is a tad thirsty but checks all other boxes. Now, if the FL2 is as reliable as the Suby and the Honda, it will be regarded as an achievement. Toyota falls much short of that, with even Hyundai bettering them.

[XianR]

I drove W115 and W123 Mercedes as well as Nissan Skyline where some would not enter with Defenders. Even so, I am a complete novice and have never done any serious 4x4-ing, just bush tracks and some beach driving, none of which I am an expert at.

You will be surprised to see how far you can go on 2WD alone. In 2004, we had a 4x4 rally on the farm and guys rocked up with tremendous hardware. CJ6, CJ7, a G-wagen, a TLC ute with a 6,3l V8 Diesel, etc. Awesome stuff.

That evening, after a day of butch guys running on adrenalin and raw testosterone, we decided to see if they were OK camping in the river bed. So I got out of the Hilux and locked the bubs, shoved it into 4L and went through the thick sand of the dry river bed. A few guys stared at us in surprise and, when we got out, asked if we knew that the front drive shaft was not even turning. So we went there in 2WD only!

:censored:About an hour later, the ladies showed up in a VW Kombi 1800 RWD after having taken the kiddies to town for a bath and to get pizza, as these "real men" were more intent upon sinking beers than look after their troops. The deep sand, dunes and dongas did not restrain at least 2 2WD vehicles driven in darkness.:censored:

Have no fear where your FL2 will go, but be sensible. Using it for back roads, which is where I also drive, it mostly won't even be noticed by your steed. Also, I saw this when doing my own research: LAND ROVER OWNERS CLUB OF VICTORIA • View topic - Freelander2 101 (http://lrocv.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7158)