Talk me into a Deefer vs a JK Unlimited

[Frank_Grimes]

Hi All

I'm soon to purchase another 4x4, and I've narrowed my search down to either a 110 (might consider a 90) Defender or a JK Unlimited Wrangler.

I've been doing the research, here and elsewhere around the interwebs, about the pros and cons of each, and I'd like some opinions from seasoned Defender owners around here. My main criteria is as follows:


Daily Driver from Gold Coast to Brisbane on the M1 - It has to be diesel - I do 700kms a week just getting to and from work so I need to see some decent fuel economy (currently driving a 350Z that gives me just over 700kms to a 65l tank on highway cycle so it would need to be no worse than that.) It must be comfortable. As stated, I spend a lot of time in the car, so I need to be able to walk when I get out, and I need to enjoy being in it when I'm driving. Automatic gearbox is a big plus, as traffic in a manual car is murder sometimes.
Required for occasional camping trips - 2 adults, a dog and a kayak, but a fair bit of camping gear (big tent, big fridge, big collapsible bed etc). Space, and the way it can be organised is a big factor here. My previous 4x4s were a mad little Jimny (no space at all) and an XJ Cherokee (just enough space).
Also required for weekly/fortnightly fairly serious off roading, including some mud work, but mostly pointing it up and down places it really shouldn't be able to go. I'll require at least 33s (probably 35s) and lockers front and rear. Some seriously twisty articulation from the suspension will be required also. Obviously whichever is easier or more cost effective to achieve this will go a long way.
To my points above, I have come up with the following about these two vehicles:


The Jeep might edge out the Deefer in this test due to the more modern and nicer looking interior, automatic gearbox and decent stereo out of the box. What can you tell me about driving the Deefer in traffic? Is it as much of a pain as any other car, or does the diesel motor allow you to crawl along in 1st along with the auto cars? I have read that the Defender seats are quite comfortable also, but I would probably look to install some more form fitting, comfy seats. Both vehicles' diesel engines should return similar fuel economy figures.
The Defender surely wins this test with the ample space for gear and the quite literal situation of the back of the car opening up as a door to get stuff in and out. Roof racks appear to be easier and cheaper to fit to the Deefer also.
Probably even between the two in this test. If I search around long enough I can probably find a Wrangler with the Offroad pack which includes rear locker and auto swaybar disconnects. From what I've read about the Defender though, is that minimal lift is required to fit big tyres, and there are still some good options for lockers. Both score well in the twisty articulation stakes.
So that's it. Apologies for the long drawn out post, but I was hesitant to just state "which one should I choose?". I'd rather show that I've done some significant research first.

Any thoughts on the above, or anything I haven't considered would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[Vern]

Buy a defender!:)

My job is done

[Frank_Grimes]

Buy a defender!:)

My job is done

A compelling argument, but not quite the level of detail I was looking for...

[2stroke]

Have you had a test drive of both? Don't know about the Jeep diesel but I'm guessing It is available in auto. I doubt it will have the economy you're looking for though. I think the Deefa is more offroad durable out of the box but most Jeeps you see on the tracks have all custom suspension etc.

[MR LR]

Get a JK rubicon over an unlimited...

I come from a LR family so I'd get disowned if I didn't choose a Deefer haha, but in all seriousness if you aren't hell-bent on getting an LR the Jeep might be better for you.

Defenders have a love/hate personality.

Both would need the same number of mods I reckon, I think the Jeep would have the edge over the Defender for daily driving, the Defender would come into it's own out in the bush though.

Rubicons have the offroad pack.

Cheers
Will

[bemm52]

Had to make a similar decision but threw the goofy looking retro Toyota into the mix.:eek:

Winner was Defender Puma 90...............(has decent stereo out of box if that's important):cool:

Have you tried asking this question on a Jeep forum we are all a little bit biased here.:angel:

So far as SWMBO's daily driver and my weekend toy no complaints

Cheers Paul

[debruiser]

If you like to carry plenty of gear look towards the 110. I have a 90 and there is nothing big about it. 90's also only have a 60L tank so they dont go too far on a tank - I budget 500kms. Did however drive it for 14hrs straight a month back then in 2 days for 5hrs then another 9hrs a couple days after. Most comfy car EVER!

I like the stereo in my 90, it's a 2013 so has the Alpine head with bluetooth and a sub.

I find heavy traffic crawling pretty good, 1st gives a nice slow crawl, i've even been known to idle along in 2nd to match speeds (rather than reving in 1st). I have no trouble with city driving, obviously a defender is no Z350...

I drive my old stock height LR around where everyone else needs lifts.

I dont know much about jeeps... I would agree with 2stroke - drive both, see what you like best and what will suit you better.

[Fraz]

Defenders have a love/hate personality.


Agree here. But the only ones that hate are those that chose the other :)

Read into lifting a Puma. There are some issues with the front prop shaft. Some have this problem and some don't. Its not hard to fit a proper shaft, but it is an added cost that you may not have known about.

The Jeep would be better for the hwy, but you wouldnt want to take all that shinyness off road. This is where the Defender wins :)

[Barra1]

If you need to be "talked into buying a Defender" you don't qualify to own a Defender.:(

End of story.

[Frank_Grimes]

Have you had a test drive of both? Don't know about the Jeep diesel but I'm guessing It is available in auto. I doubt it will have the economy you're looking for though. I think the Deefa is more offroad durable out of the box but most Jeeps you see on the tracks have all custom suspension etc.


I've driven a diesel auto Jeep so far, and was impressed with the power delivery of the 2.8l 4 cyl. The fuel economy figures that most people are getting are around 9l/100kms on the highway, which is quite acceptable. Can the Defender do better?

[Frank_Grimes]

Get a JK rubicon over an unlimited...

I come from a LR family so I'd get disowned if I didn't choose a Deefer haha, but in all seriousness if you aren't hell-bent on getting an LR the Jeep might be better for you.

Defenders have a love/hate personality.

Both would need the same number of mods I reckon, I think the Jeep would have the edge over the Defender for daily driving, the Defender would come into it's own out in the bush though.

Rubicons have the offroad pack.

Cheers
Will

Trust me, I'd be in a JK Unlimited Rubicon right now if they came with a diesel engine. Sadly though, it is petrol only.


Had to make a similar decision but threw the goofy looking retro Toyota into the mix.:eek:

Winner was Defender Puma 90...............(has decent stereo out of box if that's important):cool:

Have you tried asking this question on a Jeep forum we are all a little bit biased here.:angel:

So far as SWMBO's daily driver and my weekend toy no complaints

Cheers Paul

Yeah, asking the same question over at ausjeepoffroad.com. If you're referring to the FJ Cruiser, I did consider it, but no diesel, and IFS ruled it out for me.


If you like to carry plenty of gear look towards the 110. I have a 90 and there is nothing big about it. 90's also only have a 60L tank so they dont go too far on a tank - I budget 500kms. Did however drive it for 14hrs straight a month back then in 2 days for 5hrs then another 9hrs a couple days after. Most comfy car EVER!

I like the stereo in my 90, it's a 2013 so has the Alpine head with bluetooth and a sub.

I find heavy traffic crawling pretty good, 1st gives a nice slow crawl, i've even been known to idle along in 2nd to match speeds (rather than reving in 1st). I have no trouble with city driving, obviously a defender is no Z350...

I drive my old stock height LR around where everyone else needs lifts.

I dont know much about jeeps... I would agree with 2stroke - drive both, see what you like best and what will suit you better.

Great info there, I think If I were to go with a Deefer it would have to be a 110.


Agree here. But the only ones that hate are those that chose the other :)

Read into lifting a Puma. There are some issues with the front prop shaft. Some have this problem and some don't. Its not hard to fit a proper shaft, but it is an added cost that you may not have known about.

The Jeep would be better for the hwy, but you wouldnt want to take all that shinyness off road. This is where the Defender wins :)

That's the conundrum - I need something comfy and economical to get to and from work, but don't want to be left behind on the trails, by my mates in Hilux's and Patrols.

Thanks all for the info.

[goingbush]

Get a JK rubicon over an unlimited...



No not so. Rubicon don't come in Diesel.

Buy an Unlimited Sport, with the money saved you can aftermarket it up to get a better vehicle than a Rubi,

Ive been right thru this argument myself in the last few weeks. But more for a full time off road Tourer / towing tug.

Sorry Im asking too much. Landrover and Jeep both lose. Top dog so far is the Iveco Daily 4x4 dual cab, but it wont fit the OP bill, not the greatest commuter.

[carlschmid2002]

The standard stereo is great. I added a Pioneer head unit for Bluetooth and a Sub Woofer but I think the 2013 comes with this. Do you intend to tow? The LR has a much better towing capacity. I doubt you will get 9L/100km with the LR. 11L/100km is more like it. I have a 90 and if I had to choose again I would get a 110. If you take the back seats out it will be fine but I find it a little small. I don't know what the jeep is like standard, but, you really dont need to do anything to a LR to improve offroad performance. I find the seats in the LR extremely comfortable on long trips. If you buy a LR you get to be a member of this forum and chat to awesome blokes like us.

[isuzutoo-eh]

I had a ride in a stock standard Jeep, the current shorty Wrangler, a few months ago. I thought the ride was terrible, not a patch on my 110. May be better on the highway I suppose.
Have you had a sit in a Defender yet? Some body shapes apparently don't fit so well. It's likely an American car could fit any belly size...

[djam1]

Depends what you want to do

This might help! a little long but says something

Canning stock route . Full Movie. - YouTube

[jasonedu]

I think the Jeep is impractical as tourer. The load space is too small.

Defender drivers are also nicer. Owning a Defender you are in a small elite club and people will drive for miles just to come over and say hello. The Jeep drivers I know don't even wave at each other.

[Mad450]

I owed a Jeep Grand for a while and it was the most comfy car I have owed plus it had lots of fancy bits and pieces, but it was a V8 that liked petrol, a lot, great to drive very competent off road although a little weird until you got used to how it diff steered. The minister for war also liked it as well so I sold it.
Brought a Defender 130 D/Cab, ripped out the back seats and set that up as I wanted chipped, overdrive (roverdrive) put Stratco seats in the front, running on Bridgestones very good on the road, a little noisy I have sound proofed it although it needs more, have towed a 2t Kimberley Kamper through the Holland Track when it poured down and that was fun.
Defender's are solid and proven, the thing with Jeeps in my opinion is that they are a great car but if you want to put goodies in/on them then you will pay the dollars unless you are willing to invest some time to order your own parts through the USA. The yanks are good to deal with and get your stuff to you quicker and cheaper than here. I looked at cost, bang for buck and the fact I break things and the Defender wins for me. My two cents worth, Go to the jeep forums they are a good bunch as well.

[Mad450]

I think the Jeep is impractical as tourer. The load space is too small.

Defender drivers are also nicer. Owning a Defender you are in a small elite club and people will drive for miles just to come over and say hello. The Jeep drivers I know don't even wave at each other.

Funny as, and its the same over here, Defender drivers 95% of the time wave to one another, those that don't, well we won't go there.

[wally]

I haven't driven the Jeep but in auto form it has to be better to drive around town than a Defender. My 2.2 still feels a bit weird to me with its funny engine flare and hesitation thing. The Defender will not do 9L/100km so apparently Jeep wins there. And if you're serious about it needing to do better than the 700km from 65L of your 350Z, then that counts it out right there. I'd buy the Defender (well, I did - six of them now). Drive one and tell us what you think.

[nedflanders]

From what you want a Disco would suit you better.

[frantic]

One suggestion, weigh what you put in on a big camp trip, plus bar, winch, sliders and the weight of the dog yourself and your partner. In the jeep 4 door you would be dangerously close to if not over GVM so if you had a prang the insurance company could use it as an excuse not to pay. From memory the diesel jeep auto 4 door can carry under 500 kg compared to the 1050 in a 110 defender.
Go a defender, Tom woods prop, Gwyn Lewis suspension kit , and Ashcroft locker and axles/cv's along with either 255/85. R16 or bigger 35 in rubber.

[landy]

I had a patrol. It didn't leak water on my right foot, I couldn't hear whistleing noises from the doors, all the panels lined up, its was very comfy and was very competent off road. But I'll tell you something, I just love my Defender.
One thing you will find asking questions like this of Defender owners (and I guess it's the same of Jeep owners) is they (we) don't understand how there is even a choice.
My son says 'you don't choose a Defender, the Defender chooses you'
If you have to ask, buy the jeep!

Cheers,
Nino.

[Blade74]

I think you definitely need a good 1 hr drive in each and then you will know. One will bring more of a smile to your face.
As for the comfort in the defender I don't have too many issues with being close to the door or riding in the original seats but am thinking about scheel man seats eventually. I'm only 5"11 and about 68kgs.
I'm really loving mine and came out of a very luxurious and comfy discovery 4 with full leather, 3.0l diesel twin turbo,6 speed auto.
Yes changing gears can be a bit of a pain but I just do it and love the defender so much.enjoyed the read of the jeep forum. Seem like similar members to Aulro and love their cars. Yes jeep have as much personality as Defenders I guess.
They have their own quirks.

http://www.ausjeepoffroad.com/forum/showthread.php't=127169

[Blade74]

I also spent a bit of time treating the noise in my car as its an older TD5 and probably more noisy than the newer Pumas.
I'm now happy with the ambient noise levels and also the internal sound when I turn the stereo on.
Definitely no rattles anywhere.
I've upgraded the TD5 stereo from the original cassette deck that was in it.
Pioneer stereo with DAB radio, Bluetooth for phone and audio.
Pioneer 6x9 rears, pioneer 10" slim sub in slim box, Polk audio 5.5 fronts, JL Audio 400x4 and 600x1 digital amps which fit perfectly behind the seats.
Lots of fun installing it.

[solmanic]

If you want a large towing capacity, comfy modern interior and automatic, AND be a member of an elite group of likeminded individuals... buy a G-Wagen. Then there will be three of us. :p

[spudboy]

You'd have to wait a long time to wave to a fellow G-Wagon owner then!

My PUMA gets 10.5L/100 on average. Have never got it as good as 9.0/100 :(

Strangely, my older TDi300 engine (from 1997) gets better MPG that the PUMA, so not sure what that says about all that modern technology.....

[trenton]

I am changing from the JK Unlimited to the 110 S/wagon at the moment for a number of reasons. These may or may not be of relevance but I'll put in my 2c worth anyway. The reasons are;
1- JK has limited space in the rear and the sub gets in the way if you a loading in a couple of bulky items whereas the defender has a much longer loadspace which seems to be a lot more usable.
2- After many trips away in the JK in the wet (inc the Australia Day storms) you never know whether you have put the roof on right until after the footwell has turned into a pool. There also seems to be a reservoir in the roof somewhere which leaks onto you whenever you turn a corner.
3- Although the 110 only comes in manual the anti stall seems to help with bumper to bumber traffic the same way an auto will.
4- I am yet to drive the jeep without something wrong. Warning lights, wiper blades, oil light (even though its been checked), rear windscreen water hose popping off in the car, traction control light. The list never ends. People say "its a jeep thing you wont understand" and trust me you never will!
5- Low range on the jeep is just not as low as on the defender.
6- Both go offroad but the defender just goes further with less hassle.

I am sure there is the same post somewhere on Ausjeep but they are jeep owners ofcourse they are biased:p

[460cixy]

I don't like how the jeeps ride they mak me feel sea sick and I'm not a fan of the suspension arms just look cheap and nasty there only pressed metal junk

[Barefoot Dave]

Like Ned says, Price and drive a low k, Discovery 2a with ACE (Active Cornering Enhancement). If you get a 7 seater you will have rear Air springs (SLS) that you can raise+40mm with the touch of a button!
Diesel with Auto- check. Chipped , you will have the performance and near economy of a Common rail engine. Also has electronic torque lockup adding to economy.
Drives like a car on road, heaps of articulation offroad as the hydraulic linked anti-sway dis-engages like the Rubicon- check
Heaps comfortable- check
Decent stereo- check (with loads of cash left over if you want bleeding ears)
Storage space between a 90 and a 110, more than a Wrangler. Even more if you remove some of the rear interior trim.
Centre diff lock and traction control/ hill descent control- Check. Just add a rear Detroit locker, and there is not much you won't climb (within reason).

OR, go an early D3 with E-Diff and go even further!!

BUT, only I will wave to you.
Dave (the only waving Disco Driver in SEQ (apparantly)

[defender_i_hardly_know_er]

I put my ear plugs in when commuting to work when it's raining, something about water on the road makes it so f'ing loud.

I'm doing 200km/day in my 90 getting to work and home again (100 each way), I step out feeling fine and not drained at all.

[solmanic]

You'd have to wait a long time to wave to a fellow G-Wagon owner then!

Aaahh, but when you wave, you wave hard.

[red_tj]

We have owned a 2008 JK unlimited manual diesel from new. Its my wifes DD and she loves it, most of her driving is around town and over all it gets around 10/11 per 100.
However I am selling my V8 TJ jeep to get a 110 or a 130 to set up for touring.
Here are some reasons why the JK may or may not be what you are looking for.
First off they are small in the back very small, and since it has an internal roll cage it makes it even smaller in side then it looks from the outside, next roof racks are a big problem, since the roof is fiberglass its not very strong, so there are limited options for roof racks that carry much at all. so you have to go to a external roof rack that bolts onto the body or bumper bar and windscreen =$$$.
With the diesel engine there is no room to put a second battery in the engine bay, you can with a petrol but not diesel. so you have to store the battery in the cab taking up more of what little usable space you have to start with. on batteries it can only take yellow top optomers, that is. the factory battery tray is even made to only take the opotmer we have done 2 batterys in 5 years = $$$. the engine has proven to be ok so far for us, however they are well known for blowing turbo hoses and when towing a bugger to get moving until the turbo spools up so you have to ride the clutch.

They also have a very low towing ability 2300kg for the 4 door with a ball weight of 170kg and a unbraked trailer of 750kg.

However they are good off road, 33" tires go straight on with out binding as they come standard with 32". They leak, rattle but like a Landy you love them or hate them. I want some thing to tour in and we wont be doing it in my wifes JK, we will be doing it in Landy

Sorry for the long reply and its true what has been said b4 about the jeep forum, get on it and have a look around and ask the same question, I am a member of both forums and found everyone to be helpful. PM me if you want more information.

Steve

[Greyfox]

Sorry mate but if you have to be talked into a Defender , then you are not ready for a Defender.
A Defender is more than a 4wd, it is a life style, you will either lover it or hate it and it is better to find this out before you buy one.
Test drive as many as you can, take the misses and kids out on the test drives.
If you love them, then you can put up with all ther foibles, and there is plenty of them.If you hate it, then it will be the worst veichle in the world.
But love it or hate it , you get what you see, it is a great veichle that will go for years, it brings a smile to your face every time you drive it, you will wave to other Defender drivers, because we know how much hey love theirs.
I love my Henry, sure there may be more comfortable cars, with more gadgets, but they re not a Defender.
Think of a Defender as a blank canvas, you can add or change it to suit you needs so simply, sure you can add things to other cars, but they are added on , they never become the car like it does on a Defender.

[2stroke]

Either choice will have you putting up with quirks and foibles, I guess you'll just have to choose your favourite foibles.:p

[DasLandRoverMan]

I've been a Defender owner pretty much since I started driving, I've had at least one of every other Land Rover model up to and including the freelander (Series I,II and III, IIA an IIB FC, 101, 110, 90, Discovery I, RRC And P38) and whilst try all have their positives the current 110 Station Wagon is the one most well loved, although I do miss the 101.

Yes, the Disco is a more accomplished all round car, and the Rangies were more comfortable, but the defender is the one that has endured longest.
It's a bit of a mongrel and runs a 3.5 Mazda Tdi with an auto box (makes it a lovely car to drive) but is pretty much my ideal vehicle.
Fuel wise the Mazda will do 10l/100km although I have previously owned a 300 Tdi hard top that would average 8.5l/100km (pump turned up, disco transfer gears and Michelin XZY truck tyres) which was impressive by any measure.

Defenders just do it better.

[Mettalique]

I have a MY13 90 with only 6000km on it, I have kept a check of mileage since new and it averages 10.7lts/100km. This include daily drive and highway and first gear bush driving. Considering all the difference in driving conditions, I'm very happy with it.
They are quirky but it has continually surprised me as to how comfortable it is.
I stepped up from a Suzuki Swift Sport and find the 90 is more comfortable overall

[Frank_Grimes]

One suggestion, weigh what you put in on a big camp trip, plus bar, winch, sliders and the weight of the dog yourself and your partner. In the jeep 4 door you would be dangerously close to if not over GVM so if you had a prang the insurance company could use it as an excuse not to pay. From memory the diesel jeep auto 4 door can carry under 500 kg compared to the 1050 in a 110 defender.
Go a defender, Tom woods prop, Gwyn Lewis suspension kit , and Ashcroft locker and axles/cv's along with either 255/85. R16 or bigger 35 in rubber.

This is something that I hadn't actually considered, but has probably been an issue in the past, as I'm pretty sure I've overloaded my XJ Cherokee with camping gear, in and on top.

The 110 Defender scores seriously there with it's payload.

On the offroad matter - what sort of manually activated lockers are available for the 110?

From what I've read there are the following:



Ashcroft Air Lockers - are these the same type as ARB, with the (sometimes) dodgy actuator that involves pumping air into the housing?
TJM Pro Locker - would be my preference, but I'm not sure if they make one specific to the 110 Defender
ARB Air Lockers - everyone I know who has had these has had trouble. Relatively minor trouble, but trouble still.

Any other options?

[Lagerfan]

I have a MY13 90 with only 6000km on it, I have kept a check of mileage since new and it averages 10.7lts/100km.

Our MY13 90 with just over 7000km on it is around the same, 10.5l/100, with a similar driving pattern. Have noticed the last 1500km or so it is really hitting its stride and running smoother, must be getting "run in". We will never see 700km out of a tank though.

It's our first Defender and very very happy with it, the comfort level exceeds expectations. Cabin noise is probably the most noticible area with room for improvement, but even then I wouldn't say it is bad, but we came from a Ford Escape which has a well known noisey cabin.

[solmanic]

I probably should add something useful to this conversation...

Have a good think about the community you will be buying into. If you buy a Land Rover then look at all the wonderful, helpful and genuine mates you have by association. If you buy a Jeep, then... well, I hope you like hairdressers and soccer mums :wasntme:.

[Frank_Grimes]

I probably should add something useful to this conversation...

Have a good think about the community you will be buying into. If you buy a Land Rover then look at all the wonderful, helpful and genuine mates you have by association. If you buy a Jeep, then... well, I hope you like hairdressers and soccer mums :wasntme:.

While I know you're joking, and the AULRO community does seem close knit and genuine, the ladies and gents over at ausjeepoffroad.com also have a great community - if not a little divided by model type (I only really got to know the XJ Cherokee drivers).

I definitely see the benefits of buying into a community such as the Landrover Set. With regard to some of the comments such as "if you have to be talked into it, you aren't ready" - believe me, I think I have the right temperament for a Defender, as I've always looked at them with admiration - it's just the sensible part of me (and my girlfriend) needs to be sure that I've ticked all the right boxes as far as functionality goes.

[Pickles2]

Sorry mate but if you have to be talked into a Defender , then you are not ready for a Defender.
A Defender is more than a 4wd, it is a life style, you will either lover it or hate it and it is better to find this out before you buy one.
Test drive as many as you can, take the misses and kids out on the test drives.
If you love them, then you can put up with all ther foibles, and there is plenty of them.If you hate it, then it will be the worst veichle in the world.
But love it or hate it , you get what you see, it is a great veichle that will go for years, it brings a smile to your face every time you drive it, you will wave to other Defender drivers, because we know how much hey love theirs.
I love my Henry, sure there may be more comfortable cars, with more gadgets, but they re not a Defender.
Think of a Defender as a blank canvas, you can add or change it to suit you needs so simply, sure you can add things to other cars, but they are added on , they never become the car like it does on a Defender.
Very good summation Greyfox....Wifey & I haven't taken delivery of our "90" yet, but we still feel our Defender will be "Special".
I have been reading a few book on Land-Rover/Defender etc recently, & the history is very very interesting.
Cheers, Pickles.

[solmanic]

While I know you're joking, and the AULRO community does seem close knit and genuine, the ladies and gents over at ausjeepoffroad.com also have a great community - if not a little divided by model type (I only really got to know the XJ Cherokee drivers).

I was only half joking...

Jeep really are diluting their hardcore off-road credentials lately with their "she bought a Jeep" ad campaign. Volume sale models like the Patriot & Compass don't help either. And what the **** have they done to the latest Cherokee? It looks like someone slammed a garage door on the front! ... and Jeep branded prams and baby capsules FFS???

At least Land Rover are not so far down that road (cough... Evoque... cough).

[digger]

I was only half joking...

Jeep really are diluting their hardcore off-road credentials lately with their "she bought a Jeep" ad campaign. Volume sale models like the Patriot & Compass don't help either. And what the **** have they done to the latest Cherokee? It looks like someone slammed a garage door on the front! ... and Jeep branded prams and baby capsules FFS???

At least Land Rover are not so far down that road (cough... Evoque... cough).

dont like to rock the boat but....

MMM Hello Pot, Im Kettle.....BLACK!!!! :twisted:

The original and best Land Rover Gear Shop GB, Clothing, Land Rover Clothing and Gifts, Accessories, Gifts, Merchandise (http://www.thegearshop.co.uk/)

land rover shoes, land rover tops, land rover map bags, land rover hand bags....

Land Rover Pushchairs How the Land Rover Quick release wheels work (http://www.landroverpushchairs.co.uk/acatalog/quick_release.html)

telephones, and the list goes on....

BUT...

they took a Rover to the moon, and one to Mars.

I havent heard of the Moon Jeep or Mars Jeep!!.


I own a 110 ('12) and love it... I'd say buy one. (Fender and series drivers wave to each other too!)

[RVR110]

If you need to be "talked into buying a Defender" you don't qualify to own a Defender.:(
End of story.

x 2. Or a Jeep for that matter. Dig deep, ignore everyone else, figure out who you really are, what you truly want then go and get it. If it's a defender then come back to us. If it's a jeep (or something else) then go and be with your own kind. Only then will you be truly free...
:angel:

[goingbush]

how about a Super Jeep

Self drive super jeep trips in Iceland. Visit the Golden Circle on a super jeep and go lava caving in the South-West of Iceland. / U-drive Golden Circle (http://www.reykjavikbackpackers.is/ToursAdventures/WinterTours/UdriveGoldenCircle)

I think I need a holiday


..... in Iceland

[digger]

https://www.facebook.com/pages/MASH-Army-Rentals/499293070107662

Maybe check this mob out.... for a test drive :)

[carlosbeldia]

I have a 110. One day a man came to me and told me how much he liked my car, but he couldn't buy it due to high price (here Puma 110 costs around 2 times the price of Unlimited Rubicon Diesel fully equipped). Days ago, he had gone in his Unlimited Rubicon to an island near Cartagena with 3 friends. It's a road full of potholes where normal cars can't go faster than 20 kph, a good 4x4 can goes safely at about 50. He went around 60 and came back with 2 busted shock absorbers, a problem in the steering and some strange vibration in the front. At that time, I used to go 100kph in that road, loaded with 10 people and luggage (didn't have a job and goes as transport for tourists). The Defender never missed a bit.

Cartagena is a strategic point in the trip Alaska - Ushuaia (Argentina). In 4 years I've been working here, I have seen around 50 Defenders (110 and 130) and only one Jeep Wrangler (also saw a Cherokee once). The Wrangler was full with a few things from his one-person crew and the suspension was close to the floor (the owner told me schock absorbers died when crossing Mexico and the springs fainted when in Guatemala, they were going to be changed in Bogota). My city is full of Wranglers, very comfy for daily use, but not the car if your really want to go off road with some gearing inside.

For me, in off road Wrangler is at least as capable (I think it better really) as any Defender out of the box, but as soon as you put 50kg in the back the things are gonna go weird....

[n plus one]

It sounds like you want a play thing more than a expedition rig - load carrying capacity is the one thing that truly separated these two vehicles.

As a dyed in the wool Landy nut I'd still get a Defender for your intended use - but I think the Wrangler would probably be a better choice ie good styling, slightly more civilised, better access to a better range of aftermarket mods, and extremely capable off road.

Plus you're asking to be talked into a Deefer - which means it isn't your first choice. A Deefer isn't something you should need to be talked into - neither is a Wrangler - you either know you want one or you don't. And my guess is you know you want the Jeep...

[Frank_Grimes]

It sounds like you want a play thing more than a expedition rig - load carrying capacity is the one thing that truly separated these two vehicles.

As a dyed in the wool Landy nut I'd still get a Defender for your intended use - but I think the Wrangler would probably be a better choice ie good styling, slightly more civilised, better access to a better range of aftermarket mods, and extremely capable off road.

Plus you're asking to be talked into a Deefer - which means it isn't your first choice. A Deefer isn't something you should need to be talked into - neither is a Wrangler - you either know you want one or you don't. And my guess is you know you want the Jeep...

Actually leaning a little more towards the Defender at this point due to the load carrying capacity.

[n plus one]

Actually leaning a little more towards the Defender at this point due to the load carrying capacity.

Well, if you need load carrying capacity, you don't have a choice to make! :D

[2 rocks]

Hi Frank
I shall probably upset a few people now, but you pose an interesting question and I've enjoyed reading some of the insightful responses. I don't know that I can really contribute to your decision, but as n plus one said if load carrying capacity is an important concern, then there is no choice to make unless you are prepared to compromise that for other attributes and find a workaround.

That said, I currently have 2 Landys, the Disco and the 110 County. They are my 2nd and 6th Land Rovers respectively. During this time I have had 2 TJ Wranglers. One mostly stock, the other I modded into a rock crawler and I miss it every day.

The County is not a Puma Defender, the TJ not a JK Unlimited, but there are broad comparisons. The reason I had both is because I love them both for different reasons and for what they are. I understand the passion the drives the "if you have to ask/it chooses you" arguments, but you will find people of other persuasions saying the same thing on fora devoted to Commodores or Falcons et al and certainly over at Ausjeep (yes, I'm a member there too), so to a certain extent, they are irrelevant in your choice. I found the folks at Asujeep every bit as passionate, helpful and knowledgable as those on AULRO, and for the record, Jeep drivers wave quit a bit - usually to similar models, much like Landy owners - and so far with the County I haven't had a good "wave" rate apart from people I know...

I would have my TJ back in a heartbeat, and if I had the money I would have JK Unlimited. I like how they look, I like how a Defender looks but I would want each for differing reasons. I sold my Jeep because at the time something had to go and TJ wasn't the best for carting 2 adults and 2 kids around in and expecting to carry much else. But it had a soft top - and I love soft tops - and I don't understand why the JK drivers persist with the hardtop as most come with both.

The JK certainly will not give you the loadspace and capacity the Defender can. How regularly will you need that capacity? Can you trim your camping gear to suit the Jeep, given it might offer you all you're looking for the rest of the year (the auto trans if you want it, the fuel economy and so on). If not then your choice is the Deefer and the rewards of owning that will be similar, community, capability, individuality - at least in comparison to the Japanese offerings. Each will reward and disappoint for different reasons, at different times.

Each have there fortes and foibles, the same as any other car, my D2 is a prime example of (my) perseverance :p.

Decide what your "deciding factor" is, toss a coin and if you really wish it was "heads" not "tails", that's your heart telling you to tread the other path.

Cheers & good luck
Mike

[Loubrey]

Hi Frank,

Obviously a very emotive topic...

I actually very much disagree with some of the members about the stock ability of the 2 vehicles. Obviously wheel base differences will profoundly affect the application of the vehicle and if it's load carrying your after there is absolutely nothing that touches the 110 and 130. As Carlosbeldia wrote, there is actually no comparison in absorbing road abuse either.

I'm a 90 advocate as it says in my signature and with a very cheap option of bog standard HD springs in the rear I have toured on 10+ week expeditions carrying all the required gear for 2 people (younger people than these days I have to admit!). However...

Take all that gear out of the car you have by a country mile the best stock standard 4x4 under $60K available today. There is a saying in Land Rover circles that if a stock 90 can't go somewhere no stock vehicle would be able to get there. This have become doubly true with the advent of traction control on Defenders.

Cheers,

Lou

[Frank_Grimes]

Really appreciate the input from all. I'm thinking a 110 will suit my needs most.

Here's a test of the Land Rover community. Are there any Deefa owners on the Gold Coast keen to let me come over and have sit in their car?

I'm keen to understand what the driving position will be like for the daily commute.

[the_preacher1973]

Really appreciate the input from all. I'm thinking a 110 will suit my needs most.

Here's a test of the Land Rover community. Are there any Deefa owners on the Gold Coast keen to let me come over and have sit in their car?

I'm keen to understand what the driving position will be like for the daily commute.

This will be interesting. Defenders are one of the most uncomfortable vehicles around for the first 10 seconds yet the most comfortable for 10 hours...

[lambrover]

This will be interesting. Defenders are one of the most uncomfortable vehicles around for the first 10 seconds yet the most comfortable for 10 hours...

I would agree with that, 2011 Christmas the wife and I traveled from Townsville to Frasier Island and back then Townsville to Sydney 4 days later and you just don't get sore in a defender.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[Disco Muppet]

it's just the sensible part of me (and my girlfriend) needs to be sure that I've ticked all the right boxes as far as functionality goes.

Hmm...Sensible.
Whilst I don't own a Defender, I do own a nice D2 (no you can't have it, it's mine! :p )
My other car is a toyota echo.
Sensible option for me is to drive the echo to uni and back each day. Keeps the fuel costs low, it's comfortable, reasonably zippy, and it does the job admirably.
Today I stepped back into my D2 after a month off the road. I worked through the freezing rain to put it back together, killed my arms and froze my fingers filling it with fuel from a jerry can, packed the tools into it and some spare coolant just in case.
Got in, turned the key and let the engine warm up, remembered that it wallows a bit more, the ride is pretty harsh, the leather seats are like slabs of ice, and then hit the road.
And I loved every damn second of it, it truly is a pleasure to drive.
So while it's a very good idea to be sensible, if you're going to end up mucking around in the freezing cold rain just to get your fix to drive it, sensible don't enter into the equation :p
Sometimes, you just have to pick what you want :)
Best of luck with your choice, hopefully we'll see you in a 110 :cool:

[Carlos]

For the love of god give it a rest, come over to the west sit in my 110 and we can talk it over a bottle of honest red, then rush out and buy anything.

[2 rocks]

For the love of god give it a rest, come over to the west sit in my 110 and we can talk it over a bottle of honest red, then rush out and buy anything.

Carlos, that's absolute gold! :D:D:D
Cheers
Mike

[frantic]

This is something that I hadn't actually considered, but has probably been an issue in the past, as I'm pretty sure I've overloaded my XJ Cherokee with camping gear, in and on top.

The 110 Defender scores seriously there with it's payload.

On the offroad matter - what sort of manually activated lockers are available for the 110?

From what I've read there are the following:



Ashcroft Air Lockers - are these the same type as ARB, with the (sometimes) dodgy actuator that involves pumping air into the housing?
TJM Pro Locker - would be my preference, but I'm not sure if they make one specific to the 110 Defender
ARB Air Lockers - everyone I know who has had these has had trouble. Relatively minor trouble, but trouble still.

Any other options?

With the older defenders they had a rear Salisbury diff (metric dana 60)that you can fit hy-tuff axles and a Detroit locker( cheaper direct from u.s). Another option is jac McNamara lockers/diffs but can have limited supply.

[Hoges]

Given the cumulative number of km over say 4 yrs, l'd buy a small 4 cyl auto for the commute and a 4wd for play... the increased running costs of ahigh mileage 4wd vs small 4 cyl commuter would make this a better proposition.... FWIW;)

[goingbush]

Given the cumulative number of km over say 4 yrs, l'd buy a small 4 cyl auto for the commute and a 4wd for play... the increased running costs of ahigh mileage 4wd vs small 4 cyl commuter would make this a better proposition.... FWIW;)

I tried this, I still drove the Defender everywhere [bighmmm]

[djam1]

So did I it keeps my wife out of my Defender so it worked

[jimb]

Hey mate. Point 1 on your criteria.
So...
You cannot choose a defender because you will not get 700km/65litres unless you sit om 75... Actually not possible.

I had a good friend enquire about 110 7 delayer v pajero. In the end he decided pajero. I was shocked but you know, probable right as someone else wrote if you need to be talked into it probably not a great purchase. I think hAving deep want/love of defender allows you to cope with the **** she will throw at you.

But I think great cars to choose from and good luck I. Getting a great price for your jeep And j live the look if some if them.

[LoveB]

i get about 570-620kms on the deefer. max ive gotten so far is 680km with the light just turning on.

[jimb]

Love. That's a 75 litre rank hey. Not 65 he is asking ..

[PAT303]

Fuel is the cheapest part with vehicle ownership,unless you drive a V8 of course.By the defender,you will regret it otherwise. Pat

[MLD]

this is why!


11th August 2013, 07:13 PM
voltron
Member

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: newcastle
Posts: 7
Thanks: 3
Thanked 5 Times in 1 Post
Bought me a new 110
Hi Everyone.

I bought me a new Defender a week ago and thought it would be a good idea
to join a forum and learn more about the 110.

Initially I was looking around at various yards trying to get the best deal on a new Wrangler Unlimited because they seemed like the best option for what I was after. But I spotted a Defender in the yard as the Dealership sold both Jeep and Range Rover vehicles. After sitting in one it felt a little cramped ( i'm 6'3" ) and looked bare bones, I admired the tough posture the car had. But that was the end of it and I walked away looking and talking prices on various Wranglers they had available.

Came back a few days later, and while waiting for my salesman to serve customers, I went back over to the D90 to check it out. Still waiting I asked
the Land Rover dealer if I could take it for a drive. I jumped in and was told I not to be longer then 10 mins.

It felt a little awkward at first, and the tyres were mud tyres so it wasn't that great on the road. The car definately demanded my attention. the cabin was a little cramped, I took my shoes off to give me more leg room etc etc. The Wrangler had leather heated seats, amazing sound system, heaps of leg room and quiet as a mouse.

I got back to the dealership and asked the salesman about the big one which was a customers car waiting to be serviced. He told me it was a 110 and gave me a rundown on it. I told him I wanted one and done the deal on the spot.

The Jeep salesman was shocked to say the least, after all I told him I wanted a nice, comfortable 4x4 capable car, but for some reason I couldn't stop smiling when I as driving the Defender. I felt like a try hard in the Jeep. I see girls and older women driving them around. The Defender felt like a real mans car and reminded me of my dads 2 door toyota landcruiser he used to go pig hunting in .
My wife was shocked when I told her as well. She drives an x6 and hates the Defender, but I know that will change over time once we start doing some camping trips in it with the kids.

I still smile everytime I jump in it. My wave score to other Defender owners is 6/6.

Cheers
Graham

[Bavo]

I had a '09 petrol manual Wrangler Sport (SWB). Drove it on a few trips but mostly commuting and weekends away. The shorty was too short - barely room for the dog, esky and a bag of gear. There is no where near enough room to sleep in the back of the LWB Unlimited. The Jeep certainly handled very well on and off road. Handled corners fairly well and stopped very fast. Soft top was great, especially for spotlighting. The 3.8 was very responsive, 6 speed was nice to use with good range of gears. Got about 11.5lit/100km, dropping to 12.5 at 110km/hr or in heavy traffic. It got to 160km/h OK, but was pretty horrid. Lots of electronics and driver assists that make it much easier to use, and you can turn them off if you want to play in the mud.

I replaced it last July with a MY12 110. No where near as 'sporty' to drive but much more capable off road. Fuel conosumption is around 10.5lit/100km climbing to 11.5 at 110 km/h. It is much slower around town, due partly to the significantly lower gearing in 1st and 2nd and the less responsive diesel 2.2. Much less tyre squealing around corners but that may be the tyres or changes in my driving. Off road it is miles ahead of the Jeep. Way more torque than the (petrol) Jeep. Combined with the lower gearing and a real feeling of 'unbreakability' it goes anywhere. Huge amount of room in the back too - I have built a bed frame in the back that takes a standard double mattress, so no more tenting in the mud/sand/dirt. No where near as many driver assists and they are always on. Automatic isn't an option, whereas in the Rubicon manual isn't an option.

For fun in the sun, on the beach or around town (and to pull chicks) get a Wrangler.
For serious off roading and expeditions get a Defender.

[voltron]

this is why!






I still smile everytime I jump in it. My wave score to other Defender owners is 6/6.


Cheers
Graham

I'm still smiling :D. I have this vision now of building a Defender worthy of the Zombie Apocalypse,
got a bit of time yet.

My wave score is about 8/12 now. I just accept there
are certain Defender owners that just aren't going to wave.

Cheers

[ezyrama]

Went camping / 4wding last weekend and camped next to a pack of Jeepsters. The first thing they did was set up camp and proceed to change all the suspension set ups and wheels/tyres before driving. 15 Landy's and not one of them had to be touched, other than tyres down before walking up a few wall. It's the only car that I have ever driven that puts a smile on my dial everytime I jump in as well. If you are tall, fit a set of Mulgo seat rails, the legroom and driving position is transformed to Rangie material. Dont fart arse around, listening to idiot car dealers and mentally challenged Jeep drivers:angel:, just do it!
BTW, the ride in a wrangler really is crap and they leak worse than a mini moke.
A good mate of mine had one and got his money back 14 months later after a nightmare run of 2 gearboxes, 3 ecu's, 2 rear diffs and the brakes caught on fire.

[Becat]

Went camping / 4wding last weekend and camped next to a pack of Jeepsters. The first thing they did was set up camp and proceed to change all the suspension set ups and wheels/tyres before driving. 15 Landy's and not one of them had to be touched, other than tyres down before walking up a few wall. It's the only car that I have ever driven that puts a smile on my dial everytime I jump in as well. If you are tall, fit a set of Mulgo seat rails, the legroom and driving position is transformed to Rangie material. Dont fart arse around, listening to idiot car dealers and mentally challenged Jeep drivers:angel:, just do it!
BTW, the ride in a wrangler really is crap and they leak worse than a mini moke.
A good mate of mine had one and got his money back 14 months later after a nightmare run of 2 gearboxes, 3 ecu's, 2 rear diffs and the brakes caught on fire.

That's horrible story from Jeep.
But I supposed the Jeep guys will say that's individual case.

[2 rocks]

I'm still smiling :D. I have this vision now of building a Defender worthy of the Zombie Apocalypse,
got a bit of time yet.


I hear ya! :D:D:D:D

[manchild21000]

I tought i check out the responses on the Ajor forum
This is my favourite quote about rover drivers:
"I also had a look at the link. Holy **** what a stuck up bunch of pretentious assholes"
Nice :)

[goingbush]

I tought i check out the responses on the Ajor forum
This is my favourite quote about rover drivers:
"I also had a look at the link. Holy **** what a stuck up bunch of pretentious assholes"
Nice :)

well you know, I sort of agree with that summarisation.

I love Jeeps and do want to buy one, its just that they don't have anything big enough to suit my touring needs at the moment,

Jeep owners are far from snobs, unlike a lot of 'bolshie' LR owners. I was a member of the Cross Country Jeep Club , there was always friendly rivalry between brands . I think most LR owners forget they they owe everything to the Jeep for starting it all, And by the way I had a double diff locked Ford 302 V8 auto Ninety and some of those Jeeps blew me away !!

here is one of my threads at AJOR

JK Unlimited questions from Landrover owner - AUSJEEPOFFROAD.COM - AJOR (http://www.ausjeepoffroad.com/forum/showthread.php't=126863)

no one on AJOR is calling the Defender a piece of ****, fair enough Landrover owners are parochial but you dont have to be asseholes about it.

If I had to make choice between a new Puma and new Jeep it would be Jeep, no brainer , If they still made the Td5 new, I'd buy another Td5 Defender, but they don't. So I'm buying something else.

[ezyrama]

I tought i check out the responses on the Ajor forum
This is my favourite quote about rover drivers:
"I also had a look at the link. Holy **** what a stuck up bunch of pretentious assholes"
Nice :)

"ROVER DRIVERS PRETENTIOUS"??? They didn't even say hello until we went over to say hello and you offered them the use of your trolley jack, George. I think they were ****ed that they didn't get the whole camp ground to themselves. But they soon came around and a fair bit of banter went back and forwards. After all, its all just a bit of harmless fun.
Cheers Ian

[Disco Muppet]

That's funny, I thought this thread was pretty mild.
I also think Barras comment that they seem to object to refers to the idea that if you have to be convinced, you're not going to be happy with it. You either want one or you don't.
Oh, and Jeep boys watching this thread?

:tease::tease::tease: :angel:

[manchild21000]

I just pointed out a funny remark that cracked me up . Im not easily offended :D

[The Cone of Silence]

My two cents, Grimesy:

The Defender will make you smile every single time you look at it....and people will conclude that you're an awesome bloke when they see you in it....but that's not going to satisfy your driving needs.

Puma (2007-on Defender)

Traffic: I drive a fair bit in city traffic and I don't find it too bad. it's fantastic being so high up and in traffic people have the time to stop and give me a thumbs up. That happens A LOT.
If it's crawling traffic, the first and second gear crawling is great. If it's stop-start traffic then the clutch can be a bit heavy but I don't mind it. The gearstick has a short throw so this is no hassle.

The stezza is not up to much but I was happy enough with mine until I wanted to plug in the iPod. I'm not sure if the 2012 models have a jack for this but my 2008 didn't so I installed a better unit. $200 is a small price to pay for having the right vehicle....if it is indeed the right one for you.

Load carrying: No-brainer. Defender hands-down.

Off-road ability and modifiability: Yeah you can lift it easily although it's be worth getting a double-cardan prop shaft for the front so there's no rubbing, just in case. Putting lockers in would, I assume, be just as easy for both, as has been mentioned.
For serious off-roading....I'd say the Deefer was the more capable vehicle in a variety of situations and this was certainly one of the reasons why I chose one.

Reliability: This is one area that needs to be looked at. I LOVE Defenders but bless them, the Puma models have not been the most reliable historically and some have taken a fair bit of ironing out before they become the car that people want. This is not my personal experience as mine has had very few issues and none that required a flat bed (touch wood) and I'd recommend getting the skinny on the Wrangler forums to see what people think about them.

Design philosophy: To me, the Defender is a classic and extraordinarily capable off-roader that's been brought into the 21st century, kicking and screaming all the way. The Wrangler may have been designed for road and reliability first and then off-road second....so the design philosophy may not have been the same. I don't know, just suggesting it's worth having a think about.

I wonder if it's considered rude to ask for a test drive in traffic, then off-road and then a good hour or two on the freeway? I guess you just don't want to be in the company of a car salesman for that long. At least with the Defender you'd have space for your shovel in the back.

Bobby

[2stroke]

I think the JK Wrangler is heavilly watered down in stock form compared to a Defender. Though out on the tracks most jeeps you see have $20000 worth of goodies from uncle sam attached and go quite well. Don't know if either could be said to have a good record in regards to reliability, my son's mate had a nice black Rubicon a few years ago and he got rid of it while still under warranty, a couple clutches etc. To be honest though I always put that down to him as he just didn't seem to have a clue in general (not just cars and driving).
As for stuck up and pretentious, well I think you could say that about Toyota fans as well as Nissan, Landrover, Jeep... hell I even have friends who drive LJ Suzukis that can be accused of that.

[MGBman]

I think the JK Wrangler is heavilly watered down in stock form compared to a Defender. Though out on the tracks most jeeps you see have $20000 worth of goodies from uncle sam attached and go quite well. Don't know if either could be said to have a good record in regards to reliability, my son's mate had a nice black Rubicon a few years ago and he got rid of it while still under warranty, a couple clutches etc. To be honest though I always put that down to him as he just didn't seem to have a clue in general (not just cars and driving).
As for stuck up and pretentious, well I think you could say that about Toyota fans as well as Nissan, Landrover, Jeep... hell I even have friends who drive LJ Suzukis that can be accused of that.

I am a big fan of the defender, but up till now still have not lay hands on any.
The two main reasons. Firstly the difficulty to drive in city traffic, this I convinced myself I can overcome as I see so many defender owners driving them normally and there is no reason I cannot, may be not immediately.
The second reason is reliability, as I do not expect to buy a new vehicle and have to face going to LR to tackle issues (may be nonending) unsolvable, creating problems while solving the first one etc etc. Believe me I 've been there with my classics maintained to pristine conditions and tropy winners.....And to differ from those collectors who restore their cars and keep them in airconditioned rooms my classics are driven daily in heavy traffic. That is and could be 100 times more difficult than just restoring them. So a new car with the same procedures have halted me.

Defenders should be tough but LR had not respected the defender fans by neglecting compliants and failed to make improvements. Perhaps they think the series is going to end anyway. Sad.

I hence changed my mind and focused on the Jeep and soon find out there are similar issues. The only difference is the company had improve the car a lot to modern standards. The management has a more positive approach.

So that forced me to look at another alternative ( Do not laugh at me) that's the Suzuki Jimny. Though small is capable. The lack of space has is the only problems. Perhaps put something on top ( may changer the cg though) This wins in reliability history, dheap too. The Jimny may not have too much chrisma but I think the real 4x4 enthuriast may NOT rank them too low!

Forgive me if I offend anyone.

[voltron]

I really liked the Jeep and was 99.9% going to buy one but at the end of the day, I Held Back :) and went for the new 110.

Having owned a highly cherished modified sports car previously and then a couple of standard Jap cars before that, for me I know how quickly a car looses it's appeal and you can get bored with it. This is the main reason I think I went for the Defender over the Jeep. I don't like my driving to be boring, I like to be engaged with the car and outside of what the Wranglers potential is offroad I knew I would get bored with it in every day driving because that is where most cars spend most of their time, commuting from A-B until you can get off the tarmac. This is just not the case with the Defender for me, I can't wait to jump into it every morning on or offroad.

I bought the car with the understanding of the reliability issues and took a punt on a new 110, after a couple of issues already sorted after a couple of weeks ownership I wonder what is the next problem that will arise. I had a bit more confidence about the Wrangler from a reliability point of veiw. Having to think along these lines is not a good position to be argueing the Defenders strengths over any other car, but that is where emotion gets in the way again.

The Defender was an emotional purchase for me and I have the personality to deal with known problems if I am unlucky enough to get any and I don't really know enough about off road cars to argue which one is better, I just knew which one I wanted.

[2stroke]

Jimnys aren't perfect either, wheels too small, gearing (especially low range) too tall and then there's those CVs, same size as in an LJ50. They ARE reliable though.

[JamesB71]

Im 1500kms or so into my puma 90 and so far no mechanical issues.... touch wood.

[Frank_Grimes]

So that forced me to look at another alternative ( Do not laugh at me) that's the Suzuki Jimny. Though small is capable. The lack of space has is the only problems. Perhaps put something on top ( may changer the cg though) This wins in reliability history, dheap too. The Jimny may not have too much chrisma but I think the real 4x4 enthuriast may NOT rank them too low!

Forgive me if I offend anyone.

The Jimny is a great little package out of the box. I've actually still got my Jimny, but I simply can't fit all of my camping gear, and two adults plus one dog. Also, and as has been mentioned, if you want to fit anything larger than 28 inch tyres you need to re-gear, which is quite expensive.

That said, I took my Jimny to Landcruiser Park a few years ago with a bunch of mates all running larger rigs with at least 33 inch tyres, and kept up with them through almost all of the tracks. And I reckon if I had lockers I wouldn't have stopped.

Great little 4x4s, but seriously lacking in space...

[DasLandRoverMan]

Agrees, they're capable little cars, and pretty reliable. The only 'recurring' issue I've found with a couple is an appetite for swivel bearings, and some of the switches for the electic selecting 4WD are a little vulnerable.

There are a couple of guys in the local 4x4 club running small lifts and knobbly tyres on their vehicles, and they'll go places you can't steer a 90, the main advantages being low weight and small size, they don't take much recovering when you get em stuck either.

The lack of space in the things is the downfall though, I'm 6ft 3 and can't get comfortable in them -you think defenders lack elbow room?- to the point I wouldn't want to do more than 20 miles or so in one.

I'll stick with my 110 thanks.

[MGBman]

The Jimny is a great little package out of the box. I've actually still got my Jimny, but I simply can't fit all of my camping gear, and two adults plus one dog. Also, and as has been mentioned, if you want to fit anything larger than 28 inch tyres you need to re-gear, which is quite expensive.

That said, I took my Jimny to Landcruiser Park a few years ago with a bunch of mates all running larger rigs with at least 33 inch tyres, and kept up with them through almost all of the tracks. And I reckon if I had lockers I wouldn't have stopped.

Great little 4x4s, but seriously lacking in space...

Thanks for the information.

[MGBman]

Agrees, they're capable little cars, and pretty reliable. The only 'recurring' issue I've found with a couple is an appetite for swivel bearings, and some of the switches for the electic selecting 4WD are a little vulnerable.

There are a couple of guys in the local 4x4 club running small lifts and knobbly tyres on their vehicles, and they'll go places you can't steer a 90, the main advantages being low weight and small size, they don't take much recovering when you get em stuck either.

The lack of space in the things is the downfall though, I'm 6ft 3 and can't get comfortable in them -you think defenders lack elbow room?- to the point I wouldn't want to do more than 20 miles or so in one.

I'll stick with my 110 thanks.


Thanks for the tip!

[MGBman]

I really liked the Jeep and was 99.9% going to buy one but at the end of the day, I Held Back :) and went for the new 110.

Having owned a highly cherished modified sports car previously and then a couple of standard Jap cars before that, for me I know how quickly a car looses it's appeal and you can get bored with it. This is the main reason I think I went for the Defender over the Jeep. I don't like my driving to be boring, I like to be engaged with the car and outside of what the Wranglers potential is offroad I knew I would get bored with it in every day driving because that is where most cars spend most of their time, commuting from A-B until you can get off the tarmac. This is just not the case with the Defender for me, I can't wait to jump into it every morning on or offroad.

I bought the car with the understanding of the reliability issues and took a punt on a new 110, after a couple of issues already sorted after a couple of weeks ownership I wonder what is the next problem that will arise. I had a bit more confidence about the Wrangler from a reliability point of veiw. Having to think along these lines is not a good position to be argueing the Defenders strengths over any other car, but that is where emotion gets in the way again.

The Defender was an emotional purchase for me and I have the personality to deal with known problems if I am unlucky enough to get any and I don't really know enough about off road cars to argue which one is better, I just knew which one I wanted.

Totally agree with your part about how boring most cars are and even if they seem "not " in the beginning.
I envy your guts and decision to take a choice.
Cheers!
" Don't drive any boring cars anymore ALL!"

[Jeep Driver]

The first thing they did was set up camp and proceed to change all the suspension set ups and wheels/tyres before driving. Dont fart arse around, listening to idiot car dealers and mentally challenged Jeep drivers:angel:, just do it!
BTW, the ride in a wrangler really is crap and they leak worse than a mini moke.
A good mate of mine had one and got his money back 14 months later after a nightmare run of 2 gearboxes, 3 ecu's, 2 rear diffs and the brakes caught on fire.

I have a JK 4door and I run soft top all thru the summer including rains.... Only time it leaked if was not adjusted properly...... Changing suspension set up..... Drop tyre pressure to 16 psi and disconnecting the sway bar (2 grenade pins both either side approx 2 minutes) is all I have seen people do in the last 10 years of driving a Jeep.

Mentally challenged Jeep Drivers... Thats a bit insulting to be honest. I have a Jeep and am looking at buying a 110 Defender not because the Jeep is giving me any troubles but because I respect it as much as I respect the Jeep because of the heritage and cpapbility streight off the showroom floor...... And I wish to drive both in my life....

I have been with SJC for almost 5 years now and havent come across such a case..... Only one Jeep I saw burnt down because the owner didnt read the signals and didnt turn off the traction control in sand..... Brakes kept trying to stop the wheelspin and he kept giving it the berries.... This eventually overheated the tranny and the fluid boiled over onto the exhaust pipe and caught fire......

U quoting same kind of stuff the Toyota crowd say about the Land Rovers.. One of their favourite ones is "90% of all the Landrovers ever produced are still on the road. The other 10% made it home".

So insulting other brands does not make your car better......

[debruiser]

Im 1500kms or so into my puma 90 and so far no mechanical issues.... touch wood.

I've done nearly 13000kms in my new 90 and the biggest problem for me has been filling the tank up! I love driving it. Getting it a present soon, got a snorkel on order!

[JamesB71]

I have a JK 4door and I run soft top all thru the summer including rains.... Only time it leaked if was not adjusted properly...... Changing suspension set up..... Drop tyre pressure to 16 psi and disconnecting the sway bar (2 grenade pins both either side approx 2 minutes) is all I have seen people do in the last 10 years of driving a Jeep.

Mentally challenged Jeep Drivers... Thats a bit insulting to be honest. I have a Jeep and am looking at buying a 110 Defender not because the Jeep is giving me any troubles but because I respect it as much as I respect the Jeep because of the heritage and cpapbility streight off the showroom floor...... And I wish to drive both in my life....

I have been with SJC for almost 5 years now and havent come across such a case..... Only one Jeep I saw burnt down because the owner didnt read the signals and didnt turn off the traction control in sand..... Brakes kept trying to stop the wheelspin and he kept giving it the berries.... This eventually overheated the tranny and the fluid boiled over onto the exhaust pipe and caught fire......

U quoting same kind of stuff the Toyota crowd say about the Land Rovers.. One of their favourite ones is "90% of all the Landrovers ever produced are still on the road. The other 10% made it home".

So insulting other brands does not make your car better......

Well said.

[2 rocks]

Changing suspension set up..... Drop tyre pressure to 16 psi and disconnecting the sway bar (2 grenade pins both either side approx 2 minutes) is all I have seen people do in the last 10 years of driving a Jeep.
Mentally challenged Jeep Drivers... Thats a bit insulting to be honest. I have a Jeep and am looking at buying a 110 Defender not because the Jeep is giving me any troubles but because I respect it as much as I respect the Jeep because of the heritage and cpapbility streight off the showroom floor...... And I wish to drive both in my life....

JeepDriver
Para 1: I agree, changed over to sway bar discos when I put the Rubicon Express Long Arm lift in my TJ. Easy as...

Para 2: I agree again, I figured I had a perfect combination a while back, the D2 set up primarily for touring with LR tank and so on, the TJ with a 4.5" lift, roll cage and various other fruit for "play days". A pair of the original & best 4WD marques, both iconic around the world. So I know what you mean about experiencing both in one's life.

I've seen a lot of people do a lot of stupid, indefensible things in 4WD's of all persuasions - Landys included - I think a lot of the stigma with Jeeps and particularly Wranglers and XJ Cherokees, is that the volume of them in their homeland means there are an awful lot in the hands large numbers rednecks, doing things that the Darwin Awards would like to hear about...

Cheers
Mike

[red_tj]

Well said.

x 2

well said

[puma90]

70,000klm into owning MY11 Puma 90 and not one mechanical problem. Took a while to develop the mechanical sympathy to eliminate the lash back on low gear changes though.

Only mods needed to hang with the big boys was a snorkel and some rock sliders to protect the sills (which are very easily dinged:censored:)

I know a couple of mates that have had JK's and all have sold them because of build quality and mechanical issues. You don't hear about many of the Deefer owners who have had issues selling 'em either. They just stick in there, must be love.

One final thing to consider. On the beach when your parked up and socialising, you won't get half the attention in a jeep. The 90 is a social weapon, especially with the ladies :cool:. They didn't mention that on the dealership floor, it should be in the brochure.

I love my car and I don't know of anybody driving a jeep that feels the same.

[HCPU130]

Frank,
I purchased a new 2012 Defender HCPU130 in March 2013 from a dealer in Brisbane as at that time there was no dealer in my home town, the transaction was done by phone and internet and I was very satisfied with the service I received given there was no face to face contact before I picked it up. I purchased the vehicle knowing very little about its drive ability or reliability because it was the only stock standard vehicle that could tow my boat, fit all my camping gear, fit two full size motor bikes, fit my wife and two sons and still fit in my garage under $60K on road no more to pay.
The 130 is very different to the 90 and 110 models in that you get next to no choice in accessories as Land Rover only make limited numbers per year the dealers have to pre order there stock, at least with the smaller defenders you can spec them up with flash rims and stereos etc, the 130 does not come with traction control. All variants now have the 2.2 Litre Puma engine and 6 speed box which match up quite well I have no problems pulling the boat at 2000Kg wet, the sound proofing has also been improved from the previous 2.4 Litre models and whilst not silent it is quite.
I have only done 20 000 Klm so far and whilst it is no Land Cruiser or Patrol it has not yet left me stranded on the side of the road. It is a lot more comfortable to drive long distance than the Dual cab 4x4 Hylux that it replaced, around town the clutch is a bit heavy and you do have to drive with mechanical sympathy as it will rock between the diffs in 1st and 2nd gear if you play with the accelerator to much, best to just let it idle around and change up a gear if the traffic is going a bit faster. Fuel Consumption around town is 8.5Klm/l with the AC off. The AC works well up here in the tropics.
My family are chuffed that other defender drivers wave and they are usually looking for one when we spot another coming the other way. So far the only problems I have had are the cooling hose clamp rubbing through the heater hose, the radiator overflow cap leaking coolant and still doing so after it was replaced. Just about every screw and bolt in the cab had worked loose or fallen out by the time I got the vehicle home from Brisbane (1800 klm) which I fixed myself as there was no dealer in town at that time.
I find the drivers position cozy but not cramped I`m about 5`7" and 90KG, my brother in law brought an older 2.4 Puma 110 and at 6 ft tall says he is comfortable with the after market front seat rails fitted.
Hope that helps