EAS valve block rebuild - frustration!

[davidsonsm]

I rebuilt a spare that I had and put it in but everything seem to operate back to front! I'll have to take another look to make sure I put everything back together as it should be.

I then rebuilt my original and put that back in. I have no exterior leaks that I can find but the front end of the car visually drops to the bump stops within an hour or so. Pretty even across the front. Can anybody tell me where to investigate or suggest something. Fed up off pulling valve blocks apart!

[TheTree]

HI

I assume you have pulled the EAS delay relay and checked what happens without that.

If it is the front only, I would suspect the non-return valve or the front equaliser valves in the valve block.

best of luck
Steve

[davidsonsm]

HI

I assume you have pulled the EAS delay relay and checked what happens without that.

If it is the front only, I would suspect the non-return valve or the front equaliser valves in the valve block.

best of luck
Steve

Yeah - just trying it now to see what happens when the EAS is isolated.

[FANTOM P38]

Gday have you tried soapy water on solenoids? Those pesky little o'rings on shafts are easily crimped on installation. Or non return valve!

[RR P38]

Its a good idea to use an O ring lubricant as well during assembly.

[superquag]

Gday have you tried soapy water on solenoids? Those pesky little o'rings on shafts are easily crimped on installation. Or non return valve!

Yes indeed, - Don't ask how I know....:o

Soapy water (or any foaming cleaner, or Windex) is your Friend...

If all else fails, check the entrails of a chicken. :eek:

[PaulP38a]

back to front operation is usually a sign that solenoid caps have been swapped during reinstall. Refer to this diagram
http://hardrange.com/downloads/manual/EAS-ValveBlock-v1.5.pdf

Easy to mix it up... why I made the diagram for my own benefit :)

Cheers, Paul.

[davidsonsm]

Gday have you tried soapy water on solenoids? Those pesky little o'rings on shafts are easily crimped on installation. Or non return valve!

Yeah and can't see any bubbles from the solenoid's - the tips ones at least.

[davidsonsm]

Its a good idea to use an O ring lubricant as well during assembly.

Used a smear of Vaseline. But have since noted the guru's comments about not lubing the nrv o rings as they might bind. Wonder if that could be it?

[davidsonsm]

Was really careful 2nd time around to label and mark everything. The front has dropped over night with the eas delay switch isolated. Does that reveal any more?

Will have to whip it out again. Is there any way of bench testing for leaks with an air compressor supply? Are all valves power off closed?

Still can't work out how the valves actually open and close.

[davidsonsm]

Wish I'd not touched it. It wasn't too bad in the first place!

[TheTree]

Was really careful 2nd time around to label and mark everything. The front has dropped over night with the eas delay switch isolated. Does that reveal any more?

Hi

I would say that eliminates the EAS computer and points squarely to mechanical leak and since it is only the front one would think it must be a non-return valve.

It's amazing how a smear of vaseline can make those o-ring suckers seal :cool:

Good luck
Steve

[davidsonsm]

I'll take a look at the nrv's on my return from a trip to NSW for a conference. Need her back on her feet for wombat this weekend.

Just been for drive and after ten or so minutes she raised but within 5 mins the front had dropped again. Arh. Thinking the nrv's are most likely suspect. Bugger. I'm an expert at whipping out valve blocks now.

[FANTOM P38]

Just a thought maybe worth having a good look at seat for NRV's in case of damge .ie. scratching, pitting causing a potential bypass situation??

[PaulP38a]

NRV's in the wrong way are a certain cause of drooping bags.
Solenoids operate in a fail-close mode. If no power/magnetic field applied they should seal.
O-ring lube or vasoline on all rings except the NRV's is good practice.
Soapy water test around the base of the solenoid housings will show if the 1mm o-ring on the shaft is leaking.
Also spray the tops of the air springs where the air lines go in. If you used my o-ring kit, there are extra 6mm o-rings to replace those in the top of the air springs.

Noticed in your pics on the snorkel thread that you are using the black and blue tee-pieces. I don't trust them after we had some problems with them on the HRA EAS Emergency Bypass Kit. Swap them for the black or white/black units. I might have a few still lying around. Did you re-check with he soapy water test?

[davidsonsm]

I'll investigate further on Friday. Away at the moment. Paul I know what you mean about the blue and black push fit fittings. I had one fail on my schrader receiver inlet point. Not sure they are rated high enough. Appreciate the pointers. I'm favoring something wrong with the nrv's.

[davidsonsm]

Can anybody tell me if there is supposed to be a spring under the "red" nrv (per Paul's schematic). The Nrv that faces the opposite way. I found a spring inside the block pushing against the seat/cone end if the valve. Never noticed it before when rebuilding the block. I had a look at the other block I rebuilt as a spare and it doesn't seem to be there?

[davidsonsm]

So. I've had the valve block out twice today. First time I found a pinched o ring on the front right solenoid valve stem. Also found that spring? Left it out. Pretty sure it shouldn't have been there.
Went for drive and all seemed well fir about half an hour. But gradually the front end began to drop until it was eventually on its bump stops - just the front.

I then pulled it out again and went through the NRV's again along with the front two solenoids. Nothing obvious this time but hopefully it's fixed. It's up on high setting now and doesn't seemed to have dropped. Hopefully it'll get me to and around wombat state park tomorrow.

[davidsonsm]

After a test drive its back on its bump stops. To say this is annoying is an gross understatement.

[parasnoop67]

Are you front air bag in good nick. Or it only takes a very small leak in the air lines or connections to drop it down.

John

[davidsonsm]

Yeah. Arnott that are 3 years old. Compressor is fairly new. Nothing else has changed. System was working.well before I did this "preventative" rebuild. Can't find any external leaks. Just about to whip out the block again now.

[davidsonsm]

Hopefully got it sussed. That spring I.found under the wrong end of the nrv was missing from the exhaust valve stem/seat. Don't ask me because I haven't got a Scooby. So it was fine pumping up and maintaining height until it needed to exhaust some air. It exhausted a lot of air. Reckon I'm now hit on Paul's heels for being able to whip out and rebuild a valve block. Albeit it takes me five or six attempts to get it right. At least my spare will get all the benefit of the knowledge I've learnt.

Fingers crossed mind. I've still to test drive - to wombat here I come.

[wayneg]

You cant call yourself a true P38 die hard until you have done a re-seal of the valve block and then truly got to know it finding out where you messed up. Welcome to the club

[davidsonsm]

Well finally tonight I believe I'm back to normal with my eas. Major relief. It was affecting my sanity.

I've put a new pump in which is so much quieter. And effective.
My original valve block has been dissembled God knows how many times in the past few months. I was running on manual inflation for a while. Less frustrating. I tried another valve block (2nd hand) but that was worse.

Also bought new pressure switch.

The solution. Sitting at the kitchen bench in a well lit and clean environment. Turned out to be the front left 10mm x 1mm O ring on the valve stem. You know the one. The real pesky one. I've been through a few of those. Reckon I've got the technique nailed now. Hope I've not spoken too soon.

I've also installed a set of 4 ball valves in a framed cluster on the feed to the Air springs - close to the valve block outlet. To make manual inflation much easier.

Phew what a relief. I now have two spare valve blocks. Almost resorted to buying a new one. I'll probably build another good spare and flog the other off for spares.

Character building Hey. They sure get under your skin.

[benji]

Good to hear you got it sorted once and for all.
When in the classic I had trouble with the nrv - character building it was.

Sent from my GT-I9305T using AULRO mobile app

[davidsonsm]

Nope. It has dropped to its knees overnight. My high hopes have been dashed. Time for more soapy liquid. It runs at standard height and will stay there, but the new compressor is doing a lot of work to keep it there.

Hoping it's a leak outside of the valve block that can be quickly remedied.

Bugger.

[Keithy P38]

Could it simply need a calibration? Perhaps one of your height sensors is just a touch off and it keeps self leveling at night?

[davidsonsm]

Keith - the pump is running a lot whilst driving. That would eliminate the height sensor from the equation - wouldn't it?

[Keithy P38]

Not if the vehicle is constantly adjusting itself!

[davidsonsm]

Not if the vehicle is constantly adjusting itself!

I'll try it overnight with the EAS delay timer inactivated. See what happens then. It'll probably be worthwhile swapping the height sensors over, left to right and vice versa and then recalibrating.

[Keithy P38]

Sounds like a plan

[davidsonsm]

Think I've cracked it now. A couple of the new ball valve outlets were leaking. Got it down to just a tiny leak now. Will see how it is in the morning. Might have to replace that ball valve.

Fingers crossed.

[TheTree]

Think I've cracked it now. A couple of the new ball valve outlets were leaking. Got it down to just a tiny leak now. Will see how it is in the morning. Might have to replace that ball valve.

Fingers crossed.

Mate

Good news, I hope you finally have it sorted!

Steve

[davidsonsm]

Scraped the 4x ball valves. Nice idea to ease swap over to the manual inflation system, but it does introduce more potential leakage points. Might try again in the future with some solenoid valves. For now, I'm just happy to be riding on my auto eas. :D

[mtb_gary]

Scraped the 4x ball valves. Nice idea to ease swap over to the manual inflation system, but it does introduce more potential leakage points. Might try again in the future with some solenoid valves. For now, I'm just happy to be riding on my auto eas. :D

Well done! Enjoy riding on air :D

Gary

[davidsonsm]

Still have a problem. The compressor is new and gets to 145psi. But its fighting against a leak. So it takes quite a while. The car stays at height. But with a pressure gauge on the air tank line, the pressure soon drops and restarts the compressor. I can hear the leak, but can't find it. It sounds like its coming from the drier.

Will have to investigate further tomorrow.

[davidsonsm]

Worked out what was happening. In a static situation, the tank air was leaking quite rapidly. Turned out it was leaking through the exhaust in a pulsing fashion. I doubled checked the diaphragm valve and the exhaust valve, but nothing obvious there. Hence the need to whip the valve block out again and check those pesky NRV's.

I'd put the best one I had in position no. 1. The one in position no. 3 wasn't up to the task and was causing the leak. One of the spare valve blocks I had ($200 delivered out of USA) had 2 nearly new looking NRV's and one slightly less good. Out the six, I picked the best three. It seems to be working.

Incredible. Such a small part that represents a real Achilles heel to these cars. As they get older, good NRV's are going to get sparser.

What are we to do about it? Buy a new valve block?

As stated above, I also have another spare 2nd hand valve block - I'll pick the best bits out of the two spares I have, and maintain an "as new" valve block for years to come. What a bloody palaver this has been.

[mtb_gary]

Worked out what was happening. In a static situation, the tank air was leaking quite rapidly. Turned out it was leaking through the exhaust in a pulsing fashion. I doubled checked the diaphragm valve and the exhaust valve, but nothing obvious there. Hence the need to whip the valve block out again and check those pesky NRV's.

I'd put the best one I had in position no. 1. The one in position no. 3 wasn't up to the task and was causing the leak. One of the spare valve blocks I had ($200 delivered out of USA) had 2 nearly new looking NRV's and one slightly less good. Out the six, I picked the best three. It seems to be working.

Incredible. Such a small part that represents a real Achilles heel to these cars. As they get older, good NRV's are going to get sparser.

What are we to do about it? Buy a new valve block?

As stated above, I also have another spare 2nd hand valve block - I'll pick the best bits out of the two spares I have, and maintain an "as new" valve block for years to come. What a bloody palaver this has been.

Well done for the perseverance! It probably feels like all your Christmases have come at once :D

Gary

[poleonpom]

Re spare parts, I've been thinking the same thing. Wonder if the eas can be swapped out for another air system?

[benji]

Subarus had an eas system around the same era....

Sent from my GT-I9305T using AULRO mobile app

[davidsonsm]

So the saga continues. Finally managed to get the car to stay at the prescribed height overnight - after replacing another solenoid valve (RR) for one that I'd taken the fine sandpaper to - after regluing the rubber plug in.

But I've increasingly been seeing eratic behaviour and getting subsequent faults - one of which was high pressure (170psi on the gauge). The compressor running light I've installed was on all too often. The eratic behaviour was its desire to be in "offroad" height (down boy!). I know the pressure switch is good - after doing the resistance test - its a new one. So that led me to the driver module.

If there was a Guiness Book of Records record, for removing the EAS valve block, I'm surely a contender.

I put in a spare driver module that I had. But that was even worse. The dash lit up like a Christmas tree. So this morning at 6:15am, I put yet another spare driver module in. After clearing the residual faults, all appeared well - apart from a slight lean to the right (I'll have to check the EAS settings and readings again). But after driving to work, the inevitable fault appeared.

Any suggestions. Looks like I'll be buying a new driver module - to ensure that's tickaty boo.

[TheTree]

Bloody hell mate world record for sure !! I notice there is a guy selling a driver module on eBay at the moment if that helps

Good luck with it

G'day from San Francisco as well :-)


Steve

[Hoges]

A dodgy driver module will cause erratic behaviour of the valve block. As you have probably noticed, it's sealed on the reverse side with an epoxy material. If the epoxy is badly discoloured e.g. looks like heat-shocked chocolate and is still original, then it's reasonable to expect the driver module is due for replacement. British Parts UK is a handy website to get a price indicator ..."Air Suspension Drive Box" ANR3900 (210GBP /AUD$ 393) Air Suspension Drive Box - ANR3900 | Range Rover P38A | Range Rover | British Parts UK (http://britishparts.co.uk/products/6481-air-suspension-drive-box-ANR3900).
Local suppliers (e.g. Karcraft) are asking around $550.
cheers

EDIT: I don't know if the cable length between the driver box and solenoids is critical, I doubt it... the reason I raise this is because I have, as a long term project, the idea to relocate the drive box to a less heat prone location...e.g. in the cabin on the bulkhead wall for example... could then last a lot longer.

[davidsonsm]

Here's a theory. The driver module issue may have coincided with me swapping the RR solenoid valve. I left the rubber pill/pellet in the end of the valve a little proud - in the belief that it would help sealing.

If this has caused the valve to be too tight on the seat, would the solenoid struggle to lift the valve - and hence cause driver damage/faults?

I'm not sure how much the magnet of the solenoid lifts the plunger. Anybody know?

[PeterAllen]

When I had issues with the top pellet in my rebuild I had on one occasion left one a little proud and it caused a further fault shortly after. I then glued it in flush with the stem top as were the others and gave it a light sanding with wet and dry (1500) grade and has resolved my issue. I would recommend making it flush, although I dont know for certain if it had any effect other than circumstantial.