Life of Puma FRONT diffs...

[justinc]

Here's one for you, 80,026km old. NO offroad, NO towing. Customer complained of a bit more backlash than usual....I reckon it was good timing swapping it out today :o

[Drover]

Not to worry,

Just got a quote from Ashcroft's for full bolt in replacement centre for the front of the SVX (Air locker, HD gears etc etc) to match the new rear HDP38 only £840.

Good deal I rekon.

[chook73]

Looks within Landrover tolerances........... O.O

[justinc]

....forgot to add same vehicle is booked for a clutch next week, death rattle has become unbearable, too.

jc

[chook73]

They shouldn't feel too bad I have 87,000km and have had 2 front diffs 3 rears (now Ashcroft) a new transfer case, new clutch and a rebuilt gearbox....... All bar the Ashcroft diff and the gearbox under warranty.......

Mine has spent a lot of time offroad and traveling long distances fully loaded

[Drover]

Well, mine has done 53,950k's, all off road and all fully loaded, some towing a off road camper.

Original clutch, gear box, TC, front diff and rear diff didn't have any problems when I swapped it out for the new Ashcroft HDP38.

And all component are quite and working very well.

It's not all bad in PUMA world :D

[newhue]

So JC, what puts a puma rover differ different to all the models before. Can there be something done to maintain the current standard diff.

I am disappointed with what looks like LR's budget cutting on the Tdci. But can't see why all existing parts have to swapped out for aftermarket. Td5, Tdi's all have similar running gear, but don't appear to have half the problems.

[n plus one]

Here's one for you, 80,026km old. NO offroad, NO towing. Customer complained of a bit more backlash than usual....I reckon it was good timing swapping it out today :o

Mine did roughly the same at 87k - sneered the centre pun but did fail dramatically. Noticed additional backlash and decided to to dropped the diff oils for a look.

The front diff oil clunked as it drained into the pan...

Ashcroft ATB (already in the shed ready to go) went in the same day.

Edit: heaps of towing, heaps of offroad, heaps of weight!

[justinc]

the lowest m crosspin failure i have seen was at 26,000km, puma 130 dc. it got a trutrack upgrade :)

the one we did today got a good used disco 2 diff fitted, they seem to get a lot more lifespan. yes i think materials have been a problem with the late ones; take the spud shaft internal spline failures from the mt82 to the lt230 for example, too :(

jc

[justinc]

So JC, what puts a puma rover differ different to all the models before. Can there be something done to maintain the current standard diff.

I am disappointed with what looks like LR's budget cutting on the Tdci. But can't see why all existing parts have to swapped out for aftermarket. Td5, Tdi's all have similar running gear, but don't appear to have half the problems.

materials quality i suspect jason. we fitted a used d2 centre to this one today; it was in great condition and had travelled twice the distance. never on any other lr product have i replaced so many major components at such low km's. disappointing, really :(

jc

[scarry]

And all component are quite and working very well.

It's not all bad in PUMA world :D

The one in my sig has been(touch wood) fantastic.Just clicked over 60K and done a lot of off roading,often loaded but no towing.

Has virtually been trouble free.:)

No major repairs at all.

[PAT303]

Mine got a new clutch and all the slack is gone,it was like it from new,62k towing and travelling over Oz.My only issue is the polution gear,I'm going to de-cat it and chip it. Pat

[justinc]

Mine got a new clutch and all the slack is gone,it was like it from new,62k towing and travelling over Oz.My only issue is the polution gear,I'm going to de-cat it and chip it. Pat

one of the best and most sensible upgrades for any modern CR diesel imo.

jc

[newhue]

Mine got a new clutch and all the slack is gone,it was like it from new,62k SNIP Pat

My clutch replacement didn't make any difference to drive line clunk. However the blown gear box rubber did a bit.
When I voluntary replaced the p38 with a Sal at 70K, I eliminated all my drive line clonk. Quite surprising and not expected, but very welcome. Just could not be bothered dealing with a stranded car and road side assist in the desert. Especially when so many other P38 explosions examples have paved the way.

Vehicle is out of warranty in Sept, might see if I can get some front diff inspection before it's over.

[rick130]

one of the best and most sensible upgrades for any modern CR diesel imo.

jc


Had much to do with the DPF and EGR on the passenger diesels JC ?

I may need to play with a newish (12,000km) 2l PSA 165HP HDi engine :angel:

[n plus one]

My clutch replacement didn't make any difference to drive line clunk. However the blown gear box rubber did a bit.
When I voluntary replaced the p38 with a Sal at 70K, I eliminated all my drive line clonk. Quite surprising and not expected, but very welcome. Just could not be bothered dealing with a stranded car and road side assist in the desert. Especially when so many other P38 explosions examples have paved the way.

Vehicle is out of warranty in Sept, might see if I can get some front diff inspection before it's over.

Pretty much everything I've done (MD rear shafts and flanges, front Ashcroft centre and HD flanges) has reduced lash. I'd strongly recommend you inspect your front diff - it's about an hours work to pull the front, so hardly a big job.

Slightly OT, but I'm not aware of many (any?) P38 explosions? Plenty of excessive wear stories, but nothing that would get you stranded (short of just ignoring an obvious issue developing)?

[justinc]

Pretty much everything I've done (MD rear shafts and flanges, front Ashcroft centre and HD flanges) has reduced lash. I'd strongly recommend you inspect your front diff - it's about an hours work to pull the front, so hardly a big job.

Slightly OT, but I'm not aware of many (any?) P38 explosions? Plenty of excessive wear stories, but nothing that would get you stranded (short of just ignoring an obvious issue developing)?

You can see through the filler plug with a good inspection lamp, I use an LED torch, and rotate the diff around so you can see the end of the pin where it sits in the carrier. If you then rotate the pinion flange slightly back and forth you can gauge the amount of movement. In this case the rolled pin that retains the crosshaft had long been broken and the crosshaft was out and touching the crownwheel, :o

JC

[n plus one]

You can see through the filler plug with a good inspection lamp, I use an LED torch, and rotate the diff around so you can see the end of the pin where it sits in the carrier. If you then rotate the pinion flange slightly back and forth you can gauge the amount of movement. In this case the rolled pin that retains the crosshaft had long been broken and the crosshaft was out and touching the crownwheel, :o

JC

That's a bit quicker/easier than pulling the entire third member - though that's not too big a job really with the Rover diff.

Mine had sheared the pin straight through the middle - rack halve had backed out but not completely as they had been blocked by the CW. Lucky!

[PAT303]

I read on Defender2 that all the 110 and 130 models came standard with four pin carriers after 2010??. Pat

[PAT303]

Had much to do with the DPF and EGR on the passenger diesels JC ?

I may need to play with a newish (12,000km) 2l PSA 165HP HDi engine :angel:

Main trouble is engine light and derate even though the cycle was performed properly. Pat

[Jode]

Somehow the idea of using a roll pin to retain a diff cross-shaft seems a bit naff - the Rover diff uses roll pins to hold the adjuster locks in place (as a hinge pin IIRC), but those take hardly any load.

[PAT303]

Many makes use circlips,having the guts come apart because of this type of issue is very common across the board. Pat

[newhue]

SNIP
Slightly OT, but I'm not aware of many (any?) P38 explosions? Plenty of excessive wear stories, but nothing that would get you stranded (short of just ignoring an obvious issue developing)?

Yeh maybe bad choice of words. But the amount of random stuff that has been replaced in my 3 years is a little embarrassing for LR I would think. I have beed flat bedded a couple times in 3 years. And the tow truck out of Birdsville at $330p/h I was not going to argue with LR with who should pay if required. A rear diff fail on a car les than 3 years old is darn right discussing if not pathetic in my book. Fail, clunk, explode all a bit the same same really. But yes explode does seem a little excited.

[Jode]

Yeh maybe bad choice of words. But the amount of random stuff that has been replaced in my 3 years is a little embarrassing for LR I would think. I have beed flat bedded a couple times in 3 years. And the tow truck out of Birdsville at $330p/h I was not going to argue with LR with who should pay if required. A rear diff fail on a car les than 3 years old is darn right discussing if not pathetic in my book. Fail, clunk, explode all a bit the same same really. But yes explode does seem a little excited.
Jason -
I think 'explode' was a good choice as it indicated your true state of ****** frustration. You could hardly report that you experienced an operational malfunction linked to the drive train and centred at the point of power transfer utilising hypoid gearing (or some-such).

[rick130]

Jason -
I think 'explode' was a good choice as it indicated your true state of ****** frustration. You could hardly report that you experienced an operational malfunction linked to the drive train and centred at the point of power transfer utilising hypoid gearing (or some-such).

That's part of the problem, they aren't hypoid but centre spiral bevel......

[newhue]

:eek:

[PAT303]

Considering how many P38 diffs are in vehicles dating back 15 years or so you'd think there would be a long list of unhappy owners out there but there isn't.If you do the type of driving that breaks diffs simply fit an Ashcrofts center,simple. Pat

[Dougal]

That's part of the problem, they aren't hypoid but centre spiral bevel......

On the bright side, they are more efficient than hypoid.:angel:

[landybehr]

Somehow the idea of using a roll pin to retain a diff cross-shaft seems a bit naff - the Rover diff uses roll pins to hold the adjuster locks in place (as a hinge pin IIRC), but those take hardly any load.


IIRC "they" have had made their experience on this topic. I think that Rover had roll pins - or was it a split pin? - in the diff´s cross pin back in the times of the SII and earlier.
Early RRCs must have had them, too. Cannot recall completely what went wrong. Think it was wear in the hole of the carrier and the cross pin starting to move. This eventually sheared and the cross pin was tossed out of the carrier.
I think the circlip was an improvement.
But again, not sure I remember all that correctly. Never had any failure other than of the halfshaft (and even this only on leaf sprung LR).