How many Kms should a "new" car have?

[JamesB71]

Gday all,

Im about to pick up a new car this week, and I have a sneaking suspicion that the dealer has been using it as a demo after I have bought it. I emailed them a few weeks ago to check that the car that they have in stock is new and not a demo, and they assured me that it was.

How many Kms should a new car have before they should be calling it a demo?

[SBD4]

Gday all,

Im about to pick up a new car this week, and I have a sneaking suspicion that the dealer has been using it as a demo after I have bought it. I emailed them a few weeks ago to check that the car that they have in stock is new and not a demo, and they assured me that it was.

How many Kms should a new car have before they should be calling it a demo?

typically less than 20Km - what makes you think they are using it as a demo?

[inside]

My Freelander 2 had 11km on it.

[JamesB71]

This guy over in this thread just test drove one at the dealer that I am buying mine from. Same colour. Same wheels. Its the only 90 they have in stock and the salesman told him to be quick and not go too far.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/90-110-130-defender-county/179853-bought-me-new-110-a.html

[Leroy_Riding]

mine had 22, which included the dealer driving my car to the 'shop' that did the under body and paint protection sprays. I had to wait for mine to come from the boat so I would say 20ish is about right, last new car I purchased before that had 46 and had been used for a week buy the dealer them self to get to work and back. I was okay with that, got a good discount from it. . but 20 seems reasonable but realistically I cannot see a reason for anything above 10, happy to be corrected though :)

[rutmutt]

Mine had 57 when i took it for a test drive. 84 when I brought it back. 97 when i picked it up.

But the dealer told me that mine was an order for another customer who cancelled after having a test drive, as he had never had a Defender and found the driving position too awkward.

[Bigbjorn]

The trade considers a vehicle as "new" if it has not yet been sold at retail or registered. Doesn't matter what year model is shown on the compliance plate.

Some time ago a group of owners sued Annand & Thompson for selling them three year old vehicles as new vehicles. A&T won on the above basis that the vehicles had been in new vehicle stock and not previously sold.

[JamesB71]

Just spoke to the dealer and he told me that it was only used for test drives before he sold it to me....

I guess I misunderstood the meaning of the difference between a new car and a demo. They can use it as a demo for test drives as long as they dont register it and still sell it as new..... seems dodgy to me.. but seeing as this is the last new car I will probably ever buy (also the first) it isnt likely to affect me too much.

I hope voltron took it easy on my gears!

[SBD4]

This guy over in this thread just test drove one at the dealer that I am buying mine from. Same colour. Same wheels. Its the only 90 they have in stock and the salesman told him to be quick and not go too far.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/90-110-130-defender-county/179853-bought-me-new-110-a.html

Geez James that definitely is not kosher, I would be onto the dealer quick smart about that. Once a car is sold I would expect that it is not meant to be driven by anyone other than the dealer to have accessories etc added by third parties etc (tinting, tyres...). Could be a discount is in order - especially as it seems they made a sale as direct result of someone (allegedly) test driving your car!

Perhaps you could enlist the help of Graham (test driver) to prove they have done this?

Good luck with it mate.

PS I'll be keeping an eye out for you around the traps.

EDIT: seems you have jumped on to it already - phone calls during replies.... if you wanted to push the point you could find out the date voltron took it for a test drive and compare to your contract date.

[101RRS]

I would not now be paying "new" price but "demo" price on this vehicle.

Garry

[Pickles2]

If they've used "your" car for a demo, that is B.S.
I would not be happy. Before you've bought it, yes, that's OK, but after it's yours, No Way.
I'd reckon maximum no of ks should be no more than 30/40, but just on factory test/shipping/ moving around Dealer, pre delivery etc. I understand that "New" cars are demo'd with trade plates on 'em etc, but IMHO if a car is sold, then it should be "put out the back", until the new owner picks it up.
Cheers, Pickles.

[disco2hse]

I would not now be paying "new" price but "demo" price on this vehicle.

Garry

What Garry said.

I'd be talking to your consumer watch people about this. In this country, there are laws about misrepresentation.

Also, if you ordered this vehicle and it was shipped for you, then your contract exists from the time they accepted your order. It was yours when it left the factory and has been since.

[POD]

Wonder what they would have said if he'd pranged it.

Years ago a case came out about dealers disconnecting speedo cables and driving new cars from Sydney to Melbourne.

[JamesB71]

Turns out Voltron drove it while I was negotiating accessories and price and it wasnt quite sold when he drove it. At least according to the dealer.

I would have thought they would keep the new ones new and have a demo to test drive. Seems I was wrong and this is normal.

[WingsOfToa]

We bought my wifes car as a demo, with 26kms. The dealer told us they have to sell a vehicle before (as a demo), 500kms or 6months in yard, whichever comes 1st.

I was happy to get 12K off at those kms..

[gromit]

Dealers usually get a 'special' price for registering a vehicle as a demonstrator, hence they can sell it on at a special price (and still make a profit). It's basically a marketing cost that the car company 'helps out with'.

If it 'wasn't quite sold' when someone else drove it, was it registered or being driven on trade plates ? If already registered then they must have had it on the fleet as a demonstrator.


Colin

[time2]

I worked for a truck dealer many years ago and we delivered them with a few of thousand km's still as new. The K's where put on because they were driven from the factory to the port in the US, off loaded in Melbourne and drive to Brisbane.

A couple of thousand K's in the life of a truck that would do a few million wasn't much concern.

As mentioned earlier the terms "new" and "demo" relate to the vehicles registration status not the mileage on the vehicle. In saying that once sold and the contract signed, it cannot be made available to others to test drive and should only be driven for the purposes of preparing it for delivery.

[JamesB71]

We bought my wifes car as a demo, with 26kms. The dealer told us they have to sell a vehicle before (as a demo), 500kms or 6months in yard, whichever comes 1st.

I was happy to get 12K off at those kms..

Mines already got more than that and I haven't seen it yet! Lol. Seeing as how mine was the only 90 on the lot I'm guessing they sold their demo, of they ever had one and just used this one and asked people to keep it short so they could still sell it as new.

[BMKal]

Mine had 1,000 k's on it when I first saw it and test drove it (it was a demo, already registered). I signed the paperwork to buy it at the same time and picked it up a week later - no additional k's had been recorded during that time.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Sounds like they put the dealer plates on the vehicle.

To be officially a demonstrator it has to have been registered to the dealer and so is sold to you as second hand. It would still be worthwhile talking to your motoring association or the Office of Fair Trading in your state.

[solmanic]

Don't new vehicles come off the production line with a negative odometer reading? They all get test driven in the factory on a rolling road after which they should be at zero km. They then get driven around the factory site to wherever they are stored then onto the transport.

New vehicles I've bought have all had less than 50km on them. My last Defender I could just about calculate the distance from the end of the production line, around the Solihul site to where it was parked then on and off the truck and boat.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh191/solmanic42/071206NewDefender007.jpg (http://s256.photobucket.com/user/solmanic42/media/071206NewDefender007.jpg.html)

This is a photo of the last one after I got it home which was a journey of about 40km because NO-ONE drives their new vehicle straight home. ;)

[Pickles2]

Turns out Voltron drove it while I was negotiating accessories and price and it wasnt quite sold when he drove it. At least according to the dealer.

I would have thought they would keep the new ones new and have a demo to test drive. Seems I was wrong and this is normal.
Well, I guess that does put a slightly different light on things....if ya'd not "signed on the dotted line", I suppose, strictly speaking, he could've still bought the vehicle.
As far as "demos" are concerned, I wouldn't think there'd be many "Demo" 90s around. Sure there'd be a few, but not that many Defenders are in stock/sold any more...just 16000 sold worlwide last year, some Dealers wouldn't even have one in stock. Many sales, like ours, are "bought", then an order is sent to the U.K., and it goes on the build program?
I reckon that if your 90 is all spick & span with accessories fitted as you've specified, ya're gonna forget all this stuff "At the speed of a thousand Gazelles", and you are going to be super happy.
Cheers, Pickles.

[laney]

;)If they were useing the car as a demo before you brought it then it's a demo rego or not no way I would pay new car price if they want new car price ask for a new car.
Dealer told you it was new but others had test drove it he seems to be playing on words and useing the law as an excuse all very dodgy to me would you trust him to service your car. new fuel filter just tryed it on my car last week same thing he is saying about car.;)

[3toes]

I had a new Freelander delivered to me by the dealer here in the UK which had 98 miles on the clock when it reached me. Not sure where it had been as the only accessories were dealer fit and it was only 8 miles from their dealership to my place.

Was not around when they turned up and no one would sign for it. The delivery driver was in a hurry and just left the keys with the receptionist. Now I have possession of a car without signing for it. Contacted finance company who said would not pay dealer until I signed off on possession. It was 2 months later before had a phone call from the dealer asking if I wanted to book the car in for a first running in service? Once I agreed they were very keen to fax over the paper work to sign for the car so they could be paid.

[goingbush]

A new "car" I'm looking at has 890 'pre-delivery' km on it, but it dosent exactly fit on your regular car carrier

[vnx205]

Back in the 1970s it wasn't unusual for new cars to be driven from the depot in Sydney to the dealer in small country towns. They weren't delivered by truck.

So if you bought a new car in Narrabri, it would have over 500km on it. I delivered one as a favour for a car dealer that I knew quite well. So it arrived in the showroom with over 500km on it.

However, that was 40 years ago. I guess things have changed since then.

[Utemad]

Maybe hasn't changed that much. Some of the guys at work talk about delivering vehicles as a 2nd job for the local Toyota dealer. Doesn't happen as often now as apparently they bought a delivery truck.

They said it was great delivering new cars but not so great driving back in some pretty dodgy trade ins.

[LiamO]

I had the same problem and only noticed the car had been driven (and damaged) as a demo on several ocasions after it was delivered to me by the LR dealer. They use dealer registration plates and claim the vehicle is still 'new' until the day it's registered. Unfortunately, there's nothing you can do (I tried) as it's common practice and some dodgy LR dealers get away with it

[s7000]

Mine had 9.

In the end, it doesn't really matter. It's still under warranty, if something doesn't feel right you can add some more k's to get it sorted. :p

[JamesB71]

In the end it had 81, 40 of which he couldn't explain. He also couldn't explain the mud underneath or the damage to the front protection bar.

[CharlesTeton]

In the end it had 81, 40 of which he couldn't explain. He also couldn't explain the mud underneath or the damage to the front protection bar.

That does sound good at all, I would be ****ed... Obviously been taken off road. Can't you talk to Land Rover themselves and not the dealer?

PS My Puma 2011 had 1,800 miles on it when I bought it uses in 2013!

[460cixy]

Back in the 1970s it wasn't unusual for new cars to be driven from the depot in Sydney to the dealer in small country towns. They weren't delivered by truck.

So if you bought a new car in Narrabri, it would have over 500km on it. I delivered one as a favour for a car dealer that I knew quite well. So it arrived in the showroom with over 500km on it.

However, that was 40 years ago. I guess things have changed since then.

My old man used to do that for a dealer years ago.


On some ford vehicles the odo can be re set to zero so long as its not over a couple of hundred k and it can only be done once I'm sure other manufactures do it as well

[Sitec]

New means new! We bought the wife's VW Golf GTD new... On the dock warf it had half a km on it. It was collected by truck, then it was P.D'd and then driven 2kms to the accessories workshop (which we were told would happen), and true to their word, my wife collected it with 2.5kms on the clock. Sadly 9 months later it now has 40000kms on it!!! But that's why we bought it. If you buy a box of tea bags from Coles, do you accept it with an open packet and 3 tea bags missing??? No.. You buy a plane ticket to the UK and they drop you in Paris... Do you accept it?? No, so why accept a car with more than 3 or 4 kms... It gets P.D'd, and test driven and delivered. Demo vehicles are just that. People take them out to see how well they go/stop/handle/accelerate etc etc... The Golf we demo'd had 200kms on it and we really did 'test' it. It was awesome too! I'd be cracking the s***s at the dealer, wanting your first service done for free, and when they say yes to that put a dab of white out on each level plug (diffs, swivels, gearbox etc) to make sure it gets done. Just my opinion. Good luck! :cool:

[Stuck]

I used to average about 6km road testing new cars. You could go out a bit from that though if you had to track down knocks, rattles and other fault finding so sometimes if a car has a few more clicks than expected it could be just the pre delivery bloke doing his job (or shooting out to get his lunch :D).

[Bigbjorn]

Back in the 1970s it wasn't unusual for new cars to be driven from the depot in Sydney to the dealer in small country towns. They weren't delivered by truck.

So if you bought a new car in Narrabri, it would have over 500km on it. I delivered one as a favour for a car dealer that I knew quite well. So it arrived in the showroom with over 500km on it.

However, that was 40 years ago. I guess things have changed since then.

Refer to post #7 on page 1. When I worked at GM-H Pagewood it was common practice for many country dealers to have someone collect cars from the plant and drive them to the dealership. All cars to one of the Newcastle dealers were driven. Sometimes a dealer from Brisbane zone would come to Pagewood to collect a car that was not available in Acacia Ridge stock. I have no knowledge of whether or not the speedos were disconnected. I tend to think it was accepted that vehicles would have delivery miles on them. When Leyland trucks were assembled in Footscray, our Brisbane stock was always driven up so they had about 1000 miles on. Later, at White Motor, new trucks for Sydney were normally driven and sometime trucks for Melbourne and South Australia were driven.

I remember one Darling Downs shire council cracking up about the delivery miles on a truck, and demanding new tyres be supplied and the warranty papers being noted that warranty commenced from xxxx miles. Next time we were a wake up to this and had the speedo wound back to zero so only about 100 miles were on it at handover at the shire workshops.

[Disco Muppet]

In the end it had 81, 40 of which he couldn't explain. He also couldn't explain the mud underneath or the damage to the front protection bar.

A couple of KMs I could let slide, but not obvious damage.
Not good enough.

[101RRS]

Sorry if you are getting a demo you pay demo price. (to me a demo is when a car has been used as a demonstrator irrespective of whether it has been registered).

If you get a new car that has only been driven as part of the delivery process then you pay for a new car.

Back in the 70s I ordered a new car (also from a Newcastle dealer) that had a 3 month wait for delivery. I was given a trade in price and agreed on the price at the actual delivery time based on an estimation of final mileage. My new car arrived and was registered in my name with personalised plates. When I went to pay for the car I noticed they had reduced my trade-in price by $1000 - when I queried this they said the trade was 3 months older and more kms (but the actual kms was less than was agreed) - the dealer was just trying to screw me over.

To the dealers surprise I just got up and went to leave and he asked about the new car - already registered in my name. I indicated wasn't my car and continued to leave.

In the end I got my car for the originally agreed changeover price but only when they realised I was prepared to walk away form the deal.

So if the dealer insists on selling this demo as a new car and you haven't paid walk away - I am sure that as soon as consumer affairs gets involved and with the evidence you have you would get your deposit back.

Garry

[Bigbjorn]

Garry, I think from the experience of years in the trade that you would be hard pushed to find a dealer who wouldn't sell a car as "new" if it had been in stock, never sold at retail, never registered, no matter how many miles it had done on test drives or delivery or its production date. The trade's attitude is that the vehicle is new until is handed to a retail customer or registered for dealership use. In the case where Annand & Thompson were sued for selling three year old cars as new, the Qld. Supreme Court took this attitude into account and agreed with the dealer that they had sold new cars. I do think it a bit hot that the dealer is trying to deliver a vehicle with damage though. One would think repairs would be done and the vehicle thoroughly detailed.

[101RRS]

Garry, I think from the experience of years in the trade that you would be hard pushed to find a dealer who wouldn't sell a car as "new" if it had been in stock, never sold at retail, never registered, no matter how many miles it had done on test drives or delivery or its production date. The trade's attitude is that the vehicle is new until is handed to a retail customer or registered for dealership use. In the case where Annand & Thompson were sued for selling three year old cars as new, the Qld. Supreme Court took this attitude into account and agreed with the dealer that they had sold new cars. I do think it a bit hot that the dealer is trying to deliver a vehicle with damage though. One would think repairs would be done and the vehicle thoroughly detailed.

That may be the case from the dealers perspective buy not from mine as the buyer. In my case sale would not be proceeding.

The Annand etc case is not all that relevant as we are talking about demonstrators being sold as new and not cars that have been sitting around for a couple of years.

Garry

[yt110]

When I was getting quotes on comprehensive insurance on a new car some companies would not do new for old replacement in the first year or two on demos.

Jim

[Bigbjorn]

Dealers never reveal that cars have been damaged in transit either. They are repaired and sold as new. Pranged by delivery drivers, come loose on (or off!) car carriers, break loose on the ships and float around damaging several others in the process.

[UncleHo]

I can remember my father going into AVCO (Holden dealer in Brisbane) to buy a new EH wagon,after looking in the engine bay the salesman slammed the bonnet down,and a large piece of bog about 12-14 inches jumped up from it,a poor damaged bonnet repair,salesman very embarrassed,I was watching from the spare parts counter where I was working (doing my 1st year training) they supplied a new bonnet painted in the correct colour for the car (Burnt Umber= dark brown with Fowler's Ivory roof) they still had some run-out EJ's on the showroom floor (older grey motor)very heavily discounted.

I left AVCO to go to Sydney to train at BMC/Leyland in spares.


cheers

[frantic]

Dealers never reveal that cars have been damaged in transit either. They are repaired and sold as new. Pranged by delivery drivers, come loose on (or off!) car carriers, break loose on the ships and float around damaging several others in the process.

Reminded me of a stuff up that happened when I was working at a holden dealer. Middle aged couple had just come into some money and bought 2 anthracite(black) HSV statesman's, his n hers, as the delivery driver backed them off the truck the upper level was about 2mm to low and put a white gouge along the middle of the roof of both cars, unfortunately they where there to see them about 1hr later! Not happy to say the least, but where still talked into taking the cars, with a further discount and service sweeteners.

[JamesB71]

Given how much they stuffed me around you would think they would have offered me something as a sweetener. No dice. Take it as it is or leave it. His reason for 40 unexplained kms?

"I cant explain it, it must have been one of the subbies".....

Im drafting a letter to LRA as we speak.

[Bigbjorn]

Given how much they stuffed me around you would think they would have offered me something as a sweetener. No dice. Take it as it is or leave it. His reason for 40 unexplained kms?

"I cant explain it, it must have been one of the subbies".....

Im drafting a letter to LRA as we speak.

I don't like your chances of getting any sort of recompense. I am sure the dealer considers that you have been delivered a new car and that you are bunging on. The conversation in the lunch room would have gone something like "You wouldn't believe what this head (or ******, or wood duck) is carrying on about. He thinks a new car shouldn't have any miles on it. ---- me, we meet some mugs in this game. No wonder I go home smelling of strong drink."

[Stuck]

Dealers never reveal that cars have been damaged in transit either. They are repaired and sold as new. Pranged by delivery drivers, come loose on (or off!) car carriers, break loose on the ships and float around damaging several others in the process.
I processed more than a couple of transit damage claims that were substantially more than a "stone chip" and I wouldn't have been happy if it were my car but exactly where do you draw the line between telling the customer and staying hushed. It was a very blurred line.

[JamesB71]

I processed more than a couple of transit damage claims that were substantially more than a "stone chip" and I wouldn't have been happy if it were my car but exactly where do you draw the line between telling the customer and staying hushed. It was a very blurred line.

When it looks as though the part was put on with a sledge hammer and the dings, missing paint and rust are still clearly visible to anyone willing to squat down?

[Stuck]

James,
I'm not looking to stir you up but the way that I think the dealer would be looking at is that you knew how many clicks were on it when you signed on the line and unless you can prove that there'd been an "unreasonable" amount of mileage added between that time and delivery I think you'll be in for a tough time in getting any sort of compensation. As Sean (SBD4) mentioned, contacting Voltron to find out when he drove it could go a long way towards helping your case. Without seeing the damage to the front end I wouldn't like to comment but in my 16 years in pre delivery unless it was noted at delivery you'll learn that these blokes have more moves than a chess tournament.

[JamesB71]

Thanks for the input guys, but I'm not looking for compensation. It was noted at delivery and I accepted it on the provision the problems were fixed.

I'm just very surprised at what's considered acceptable in that industry, and I think most others from outside would too. If I was selling something for 50 G's I would probably have a squiz underneath prior to giving it to the client.

[Stuck]

Just thinking back. We once received a (new) VS 5 litre 5 speed "S pack" ute and this thing went like a scalded cat, very impressive:burnrubber:. The word soon got out and every man and his dog around the dealership was taking it for a run. By the time the sales manager caught wind of what was happening, the ute had done more miles than the space shuttle and was well and truly "run in". He instructed us in no uncertain terms to "bury the effin thing on the back line" and he was to keep custody of both keys until the ute was sold :o:D.

[Pickles2]

Just thinking back. We once received a (new) VS 5 litre 5 speed "S pack" ute and this thing went like a scalded cat, very impressive:burnrubber:. The word soon got out and every man and his dog around the dealership was taking it for a run. By the time the sales manager caught wind of what was happening, the ute had done more miles than the space shuttle and was well and truly "run in". He instructed us in no uncertain terms to "bury the effin thing on the back line" and he was to keep custody of both keys until the ute was sold :o:D.
So, the Ute became a "Croucher"?!
Who knows what a "Croucher" is?
Cheers, Pickles.

[vnx205]

As someone who has never bought a new car and in 47 years of car ownership has only ever bought four second hand sedans and three second hand 4WDs, I find this obsession with the number of kms on the odometer of a new car mildly amusing.

Within a day or so, the vehicle will likely have more kms on the odometer than the tiny number that seem to worry some people so much.

I can understand that someone might be mildly miffed if their new vehicle had damage, but what difference does it make whether the odometer has 1 km or 100kms? Even 100kms represents only about 1/4000th or about 0.00025% of the life of the vehicle. That doesn't seem like a big deal.

Perhaps I just don't understand the emotional attachment new car owners have to their vehicle or the importance they place on being the person who put the first few kms on the odometer.

[CharlesTeton]

Probably has to do with if people are paying top price for new, they want it as described i.e. new. Not possibly driven by some idiot who has trashed the gearbox and been off-road.

I've never bought new either but totally understand why people get ****ed off with mileage on a 'new' vehicle.

[JamesB71]

When you buy second hand you expect to have to fix up issues left over from the previous owner. When you are paying a premium for a new vehicle you expect not to have to have prior damaged caused by other drivers repaired.

[JamesB71]

This shot was taken literally on the showroom floor before I took delivery. I don't expect damage and rust on a new vehicle. I refused up accept it until they agreed to replace it and fix the other problems. I'm still waiting to hear when that will happen.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a340/WJByrnes/null_zpse2b52797.jpg

[Bigbjorn]

It may surprise many of you but in all my years in the motor and machinery trades, every employer of mine deliberately never used the word "new" on a sales invoice. The only times and places this occurred was on a pro-forma invoice to a lender during the period of the ill-advised investment allowance for new plant. Some lenders insisted the goods be described as "new". A broker informed me this meant that the lender was going to claim the investment allowance, not the customers who usually leased. The customer was usually not in a position to argue with the lender who had them by the short & curlies.

[newhue]

Given how much they stuffed me around you would think they would have offered me something as a sweetener. No dice. Take it as it is or leave it. His reason for 40 unexplained kms?

"I cant explain it, it must have been one of the subbies".....

Im drafting a letter to LRA as we speak.

I think you are making a rod for your own back here.
Given what you will most likely do with the car, and what will most likely happen to that car I'd chill a bit.

You can make enemies with the dealer of become quite liked by them. 80klm so what, not good I agree, but over the next 3 years if you get along with the dealer than a relationship in positive ground WILL be worth your while.
Mine had 37klm when I picked it up. Iron filings inside from where they fitted a mod plate, and plenty of rust underneath. Yes I was a little surprised it was not all perfect, but just first world problems really. My first 4x4 outing with less than 500klm on it I flattened my nudge bar and dinted a sill. So a bit of unfortunate stuff from the dealer was trivial.

I'd just take a chill pill. Let them know you are disappointed. Ask the salesman or principal would his wife be happy with what he is asking you to accept. And move on.

[Leroy_Riding]

I have to agree with Newhue on this one, there were imperfections on my car, but nto as high a km's but within the first 100kms my car was looking pretty 'used' i had 'teething' issues with my dealer service center, but now we get on fine.

if you continue down this road you will have a sour taste about your car, best to hope they replace the parts, and go enjoy your new toy :)
Leroy

[JamesB71]

Thanks for the input guys. The dichotomy in points of view is interesting to note. People who only buy second hand cars seem to not care, people who fork out for new seem to agree with me that if you buy something new it should at least start out undamaged.

Re ****ing off the dealer. I have no intention of having a relationship with that dealer. He isnt my closest dealership and they screwed up so much I wouldnt be trusting them anyway. The hatchet job on the protection bar was done in the dealership.... so Im not confident that their work is of acceptable quality and the attitude of the salesman when I pointed it out was not remotely acceptable. When i found the damage while inspecting it in the showroom and asked why it was allowed to be released like that he said "well its not like we get under and inspect them"...

Ill take it to the one in Parramatta for servicing for the warranty period. After that I will be doing it myself like I always have. I plan on this lasting me a long time.....

Im surprised you guys consider damage and corrosion in a new car acceptable because you plan on bashing it up anyway. If its going to be used in the bush and damaged the guy paying 50 grand for it should be the one to do it I reckon.

How much pre-delivery damage would you be willing to shrug off on a brand new vehicle?

[Pickles2]

G'Day James....I'm with you mate.
Haven't got our "90" yet, but when it arrives, I would not expect to have the issues that you have encountered.....because I am VERY particular.
But, having said that, lots of people are not like that, it's not a worry to them...they can simply shrug it off....sometimes I reckon those people save themselves a lot of grief.....and they do.....but not me, I can't do that, I would be very unhappy.
To me, new is "NEW", that's all there is to it. If the car's done say 100ks when you look at it, and you decide to accept it as new, well that's your choice, and if the car was Ok, it'd probably be mine too. BUT, after the car's been sold to you, NO-ONE else should drive it.....except for Reg/Pre delivery etc.
Anyway, it's probably the case that you've had your dramas early, and that you are now going to enjoy "Defendering"....I hope you do.
Where's the pics?, Pickles.

[JamesB71]

You mean the one I posted above isnt enough? lol. Hows this one?

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a340/WJByrnes/P8170004_zpsc821e050.jpg

[disco2hse]

How much pre-delivery damage would you be willing to shrug off on a brand new vehicle?

Short answer: None.

If they are manufacturing defects, like the fact that it is hand assembled and so there may be gaps and things, then OK, other defects are repaired under warranty. Any damage post production should not exist.

[JamesB71]

How about general build quality issues? This pic was also taken while it was on the showroom floor, and whilst not really a major problem is pretty indicative of sloppy work. A bit like the aluminium swarf in the rear window runners from installing the windows.....

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[Pickles2]

Must've missed your previous photo...which thread was it in?
Cheers, Pickles.

[JamesB71]

Just back a page.

[vnx205]

Thanks for the input guys. The dichotomy in points of view is interesting to note. People who only buy second hand cars seem to not care, people who fork out for new seem to agree with me that if you buy something new it should at least start out undamaged.
.... .... .... ..

How much pre-delivery damage would you be willing to shrug off on a brand new vehicle?
I would expect no damage.

I'm not sure if your second sentence was a response to my comments.
However if they are then I believe you have misrepresented my position on the subject. I was commenting mostly on the issue raised in the subject line of your thread, ie the number of kms on a new car.
I did say:


I can understand that someone might be mildly miffed if their new vehicle had damage.

[JamesB71]

No mate, not you in particular, just an observation that there are two distinct schools of thought on the subject. Im too old and apathetic to have arguments with people on the internet and wasnt trying to pick a fight.

It probably says more about the people than the issue really. I, and it seems quite a few others have an idea of what a "new" car is and it doesnt seem to gel with what the industry considers appropriate. If I had it over again I would buy a demo. Whats the difference if they are going to use the new ones as demos anyway? The expectation of what are an appropriate number of kms on a new car seems to have quite a number of diverse opinions. I would have been ok with as many as it took to get the aftermarket jobs done. But when I turn up to the showroom and its got mud all underneath, visible damage, corrosion in the damaged part and 40 unexplained kms on the clock I think something is up.

The issue of damage, I think we can all agree on. A new car shouldnt have any. If it does, its a second hand car.

[disco2hse]

How about general build quality issues? This pic was also taken while it was on the showroom floor, and whilst not really a major problem is pretty indicative of sloppy work. A bit like the aluminium swarf in the rear window runners from installing the windows.....

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a340/WJByrnes/null_zpsfe865521.jpg

I think in this case, if it something that will affect the performance of the vehicle, then you should claim it under warranty. However things like that are a given when it is assembled by hand. We have got used to having near perfect vehicles that are made by robots. Once upon a time, it was normal to go over a car and check that things were properly tightened.

[juddy]

It's a defender for gods sake, hand built by a 17 year old in darkest Birmingham.

It's just the way it is.

However you have every right to complain about issues, and I am sure your dealer will put things right.

[JamesB71]

Yeah... im finding that. Ive been going around it fiddling most of the day today..... Fixing sloppy stuff and installing electronics.

Its strangely fun.....

[Disco Muppet]

Yeah... im finding that. Ive been going around it fiddling most of the day today..... Fixing sloppy stuff and installing electronics.

Its strangely fun.....

And it begins... :D

[newhue]

Yeah... im finding that. Ive been going around it fiddling most of the day today..... Fixing sloppy stuff and installing electronics.

Its strangely fun.....

wait for the door handles to fall off, the widows to lower them selves... oops you don't have back windows. It will leak, most likely require a ignition barrel, perhaps an immobiliser, egr valve or two, new clutch, and numerous other weird and wonderful things over the next few years. My first night of ownership I popped an inner coil back into it's seat with a tyre lever as Solihull didn't get it right, day two of owner ship it got flat bedded.

I know a new car should be perfect, but like Juddy says. Hand built aint such a great thing sometimes.

[Mick_Marsh]

Hand built aint such a great thing sometimes.
Depends on if it was built on a Friday or Tuesday.

[newhue]

Depends on if it was built on a Friday or Tuesday.

Yeh I shouldn't bagg them too much as they are great cars and I do like mine. Sometimes I think however it was built on a Friday, finished on the Tuesday after a public holiday, and the lads were either hung over, or ****ed off about being back at work, or depressed about their dak long wet existance in an English factory in winter.

JamesB71, don't mind me, your truck looks pretty smart. I can see, and understand why you felt ripped. I hope, and really do, that your new baby only ever has a dinted nudge bar as a warranty claim.
There are people on here who mention their issues, also ones who don't but have, and ones who haven't had any either. Best of luck with the new Defer.

[JamesB71]

JamesB71, don't mind me, your truck looks pretty smart. I can see, and understand why you felt ripped. I hope, and really do, that your new baby only ever has a dinted nudge bar as a warranty claim.
There are people on here who mention their issues, also ones who don't but have, and ones who haven't had any either. Best of luck with the new Defer.

Thanks Jason. Now thats its here and I am working on it things are looking up.

[Pickles2]

Thanks Jason. Now thats its here and I am working on it things are looking up.
That is good news.
At least you have yours. Ours is scheduled to be built 4/9 (there is some strike action "looming", so we hope this build date will still happen!), with delivery to us 8/11. We called in at our Dealer ULR today, & saw a white "90" waiting to be delivered, so we had a good look at it, so we could simply remember what one looks like, & what we were buying! Ya don't see many 90s on the road in Melbourne.
Glad you're "happier", Pickles.