Best fault diagnostics solution

[firefoxGC]

Hi guys after a recent problem on a trip I must buy a good solution for diagnosing sensor and computer problems. I need to be able to diagnose and fix if possible. I can see all the common solutions but there doesn't seem to be a good list of the best ones and what everyone recommends and uses and where I can buy them from.

Looks like the black box MSV is an option but there are others like hawk eye and auto logic. What's everyone use and recommend?

[~Rich~]

Well it depends on how far you want to go.
I've got the cheaper Black Box Faultmate, it has the ability to both read faults and give a description of what they are through all the modules. It also lets you clear them as well.

That's enough for me, I'm not into editing the files.

On one occasion it was enough for me to ring my mechanic with the gearbox fault codes and discuss possible causes and remidies.

[discojools]

There is the GAP Diagnostic IIdtool (canadian I think) which connects by Bluetooth to an App on your iPhone or there is the non bluetooth one That is operated by the cruise control buttons. You read it on the dashboard.
Am considering it.
BMI supply it here but much more expensive than in the UK.

[gghaggis]

For a D4 or D3, the Faultmate FCR is probably the best bang for your buck - around $350 or less to your door.

Cheers,

Gordon

[phl]

They all have their pros and cons; if you just want to read/clear faults, the Faultmate FCR sounds pretty good. If you want to change some of the setting, especially suspension height, the IID Tool (both Bluetooth and non-Bluetooth) is good, although CCF editing is not as extensive as the Faultmate MSV, which gives you more features.

Price follows functionality; I settled for the IID Tool BT as it had a good balance of price to features I needed.

[d3viate]

I have the Blackbox MSV-2 Extreme which allows you to do everything, read codes and adjust the vehicles parameters anywhere.
One handy feature that I use often is to change suspension values to raise the car height so if going off-road you can have your "standard" height an inch or two above what it is now by adjusting the suspension potentiometers output (those little black squares with a rod/arm attached at the suspension) . You have a map stored making it simple to go to your off-road height or back to factory in a few minutes.
Only drawback is Blackbox Extreme using its full features requires a laptop running software that came out eons ago, think windows 98, I do use a Vista one but tell program to use 98. Gives your old laptop a use I suppose.
Blackbox good too if you are a person who upgrades parts like stereo, gps, steering wheel controls, change injectors-or read every engine value, whatever, as you can tell cars computer to fire up those new parts you have fitted or if you have changed out the ECM, get that going.
I think the more basic code readers are just fine if you just want to find a problem or not interested in changing anything but if you are PC competent and like playing or fitting extras it does have its advantages.
There is also a Blackbox forum with backup to answer any questions but is only accessible once you purchase the Blackbox. The software is loaded onto your Blackbox according to your VIN or can be loaded to work with any Disco for a little more. Can use it to load engine performance maps too.
It all depends how far you want to "get inside your car".

[kenl]

On the D4 the MSV-2 is more limited, there are lots of promised updates but I for one am starting to become a disillusioned Black Box Solutions customer.
If the BBS forum were available to people before they bought the product, No one would ever buy it.

[nivekau]

There is the GAP Diagnostic IIdtool (canadian I think) which connects by Bluetooth to an App on your iPhone or there is the non bluetooth one That is operated by the cruise control buttons. You read it on the dashboard.
Am considering it.
BMI supply it here but much more expensive than in the UK.

I've got the IID, although I'm pretty upset that I didn't know the BT one was coming out. I've got the earlier one, not BT one.

They're continuing development of the functionality, in fact I need to download some new firmware for mine. In addition to reading and clearing codes it allows you to change the default suspension height, which is why I wanted it but never actually got around to doing it!

I bought mine for about $450 delivered from an LR dealer in the Midlands in the UK (on eBay)

Got a quote from Rovacraft here in Australia and they wanted $770, and they had to order it from the UK!

[phl]

I've got the IID, although I'm pretty upset that I didn't know the BT one was coming out. I've got the earlier one, not BT one

You don't lose much functionality without BT at the moment. In fact, for a quick change, such as when I edited the CCF to reduce the fuel consumption display, I didn't bother using BT as it was in a Coles Express forecourt waiting for someone to vacate the air pump.

Have to say they have nailed it for ease of use.

If they add more functionality where you need moe screen space, then that may change, as they keep updating it, which is great.

[d3viate]

a disillusioned Black Box Solutions customer.
If the BBS forum were available to people before they bought the product, No one would ever buy it
Agree about the access to forum AFTER purchase. When you have access you then see how many people are having problems with updates not working or just using the system.
Can spend a lot of time reloading/tweeking and generally pulling your hair out.
Having to take an outdated laptop in the car along with a newie is just extra weight/space and "customer support" (he) can get pretty cranky when you have outlaid a fair amount of coin..
They expect you to be at a PC Engineer level instead of getting their end to work better.
I do not know how long they can go trying to run such outdated windows.
I would not recommend unless you are rebuilding a Disco or can write code blindfolded.

[Graeme]

"customer support" (he) can get pretty cranky when you have outlaid a fair amount of coin.. He could do with some PR education, to put it mildly.

[firefoxGC]

On the D4 the MSV-2 is more limited, there are lots of promised updates but I for one am starting to become a disillusioned Black Box Solutions customer.
If the BBS forum were available to people before they bought the product, No one would ever buy it.
Hi kenl,
So based on everyone's advice I approached blackbox. I can tell you I won't be buying there product. If you ask about support, functionality and product capability prior to purchase they have a real dummy spit. There response is oh we've been around a long time.

If buying anything from remote I always ask the correct questions prior to purchase so I don't get burnt. I won't be buying a blackbox. I assume Colin will chime in here to defend his claims that u get no support or questions until you buy. I'm not going to publish the emails they sent me. I would just recommend people do they're research before purchase.

Now off to look at another product.
Cheers
JD

[jon3950]

I have an IIDTool and the support, both pre and post sale, has been very good.

Can't make a comparison with the Blackbox products, but I am very happy with it. It does what I need it to do. I have also been able to upgrade from D3 to D4 for a reasonable cost and will soon upgrade to the bluetooth version, again for a reasonable cost.

Cheers,
Jon

[IndusD4]

I have an IIDtool BT and am very happy with it, also with support from developers.

If there's one thing I would change about them is that when you play with the suspension height, the software exits when done. In my view it should just go back one level in the software menu so you can scroll down and save the settings. Anyway, you can call up the tool again and then save the settings so no big deal really.

The developers informed me that this is an inherited behaviour from their EAS module, they may look at streamlining the software for a future software release.

Ron

[phl]

That's the great thing about GAP; their after sales support and continued development is top notch. Had problem with the BT initially, and they sent a replacement out straight away, as apparently the initial BT batch a module that was insufficiently robust.

[clubagreenie]

The problem at Blackbox is you don't get Colin on the phone. You get the other ass clown and that's where the issue lies. Speaking to Colin is a pleasure, the other guy (didn't even bother remembering his name) make baby jesus cry.

[RBT]

I recently acquired the IIDTool BT, and am also very happy with it, Patrick from GAP Diagnostic has provided prompt back-up and support! He openly invited to join their beta program which gives access to other features in beta development.

The main things I wanted were to be able set/recall my own EAS height settings, fix the fuel consumption figure and read fault codes.

Just one thing I’ll like to see is a trick iPad/iPhone/iPod user interface rather than just the same menu structure you get with the non-BT version. (not a biggie though)

Rob

[Epic pooh]

I've had the older non-BT IIDTool for quite a while - it is easy to use, functionality is good for me, support is great, no issues, no complaints, no regrets. The tool continues to improve from version to version and that's also a big plus. The only downside is that I had to wait longer than D4 owners for the latest (big improvement) release for some reason ;)

[discojools]

Where's the best place to the IIDTool BT and and what price.?.. As I said earlier got a quote from an agent here and it was very expensive.

[firefoxGC]

I've reached out to local providers and international. Currently trying to work out the best option. It looks like bang for your buck iidtool is the safest and better option.

And OMG I would recommend everyone stay away from blackbox. The guy is a NUTCASE! Even after saying thanks but no thanks 24 hours ago, an email just received from him about 10 mins ago with absolute dribble. Trying to state a case. He really doesn't understand I am a potential customer that would happily spend 2k on his product.

I think others advice here on that product is definitely sound advice. Otherwise send them an email asking about details on their product and support. You might get lucky.

[jon3950]

I bought mine from this mob:

Land Rover Spares, Range Rover Parts & Accessories | LR Parts (http://www.lrparts.net/)

Was the best price I could find at the time. Have bought a few things off them now and had no problems. Once you have the unit, all subsequent upgrades etc can be done directly through GAP.

Cheers,
Jon

[AnD3rew]

I bought mine from this mob:

Land Rover Spares, Range Rover Parts & Accessories | LR Parts (http://www.lrparts.net/)

Was the best price I could find at the time. Have bought a few things off them now and had no problems. Once you have the unit, all subsequent upgrades etc can be done directly through GAP.

Cheers,
Jon

They don't appear to have the BT version

[phl]

Got mine from Salop 4x4; at the time, they were one of the few retailers with a BT unit in stock. LR Parts didn't yet have stock.

Paid GBP375 including postage (about $550).

[sheerluck]

The problem at Blackbox is you don't get Colin on the phone. You get the other ass clown and that's where the issue lies. Speaking to Colin is a pleasure, the other guy (didn't even bother remembering his name) make baby jesus cry.


.......And OMG I would recommend everyone stay away from blackbox. The guy is a NUTCASE! Even after saying thanks but no thanks 24 hours ago, an email just received from him about 10 mins ago with absolute dribble. Trying to state a case. He really doesn't understand I am a potential customer that would happily spend 2k on his product. .......

Has anyone given this feedback directly to Colin? I don't know him personally, but have had some direct communication with him and found him to be open and helpful. If there is an aspect of his business that is not working well then I am certain that he would be very interested in some constructive feedback.

[firefoxGC]

Colin and Ron are the two that have been sending me emails. If you have a look at rangerover.net and a few others you will see its not just his staff but in general the business. It looks like somedays he's great others he is not.

I can tell you that my communications with gap diagnostic so far are what I would expect from anyone looking at buying from a business. I honestly have no clue why blackbox is the way they are. I am sure he has his reasons.

[Epic pooh]

I got mine from lr direct (Land Rover Parts and Spares Direct (http://www.lrdirect.com)) - you just have to know the part number (DAxxxx) or email them (they are very helpful) and they will identify the part number and advise price / postage. Mine (non-BT) was AU$400 delivered to my door around a year or so ago - as I've mentioned in other posts, I ordered Friday and it was at my door on Monday.

[rambada]

Please excuse my ignorance but does the IIDTool BT allow you to reset the suspension height?

If so does this still lower at 55kph or is that variable as well?

Looking through the web site now but can't find the answer.

Cheers

[~Rich~]

IID Tool, Llams and rods all fool the cpu as to what height it actually is. They all make the car thinks its at standard height when actually it is say 50mm higher. You can then select off road height on top of that. So yes it will stay 50mm higher at any speed, useful in the bush and on undulating gravel roads or sand.

[discojools]

Wasn't aware that the GAP 11D tool could fool the suspension so it doesn't drop at 50KPH. How do you get it to do that?

Jools

[~Rich~]

Because + 50 is now the standard height when calibrated so.

[Graeme]

I understood that standard height can only be recalibrated a max of 25mm higher, regardless of the tool making the changes. IIRC the GAP people advocate fitting shorter rods and then recalibrating standard height lower for normal use because standard height can be lowered further than raised.

NB The GAP tool doesn't fool the suspension ecu - it changes the calibration values for normal height within the ecu. It doesn't change the speed limit for off-road height nor for any other special height.

[Epic pooh]

You are far more expert at this than me Graeme !

My understanding is something like this (from the GAP manual and experience) is that the internal value for the ECU has a maximum of 250mm - this does not correspond to mm in ride height (it is height sensor calibration) - the calibration values will differ from vehicle to vehicle and from corner to corner to achieve "flat at rest". So in my case the values at normal ride height (flat) are around 200mm (varying by +/-15 per corner as this is not ride height). Using the adjust all command in IIDtool, I can adjust normal ride height in 10mm increments up to the 250mm limit (as defined by the highest corner setting and rounded down to the nearest 10mm increment) - reality is I currently am able to get +30 with this approach. If you take the time to set 2 profiles you can do it corner by corner (which IIRC effectively gives me about +40 front and +45 rear).

Having mucked around with this a little, I normally just use "adjust all" which gives me roughly an extra inch at normal ride height (and that works for me because I am not that hardcore). If I did want more accessible/quicker/flexible heights, I would buy your product and/or some rods. Hope those ramblings make some sense. :)

[Ferret]

Yes, you can get more than +25mm.

The tool allows you to add or subtract from current calibration heights, within limits. For example from the manual ...


If the current calibration is:
Sensor Calibration height value (mm)
Front Left 205
Front Right 200
Rear Left 195
Rear Right 183

And the limits of the EAS ECU are:
Sensor Limit Value (mm)
Upper Front 250
Upper Rear 250
Lower 150

The front can be raised by a maximum of 250-205 = 45 mm.
The front can be lowered by a maximum of 200-150= 50 mm.

The rear can be raised by a maximum of 250-195 = 55 mm.
The rear can be lowered by a maximum of 183-150 = 33 mm.

The IIDTool automatically calculates these values and allows only changes within these parameters.

[~Rich~]

I understood that standard height can only be recalibrated a max of 25mm higher, regardless of the tool making the changes. IIRC the GAP people advocate fitting shorter rods and then recalibrating standard height lower for normal use because standard height can be lowered further than raised.

NB The GAP tool doesn't fool the suspension ecu - it changes the calibration values for normal height within the ecu. It doesn't change the speed limit for off-road height nor for any other special height.

Yes I do realize the IID tool does not "fool" the cpu, the LLAMS and Rods do.
For simplicity is why I grouped them together, yes I should of elaborated more. ;)

[Graeme]

Perhaps I'm recalling that the ecu allows only 25mm increase at a time meaning that 2 changes are required to get more, but this might not be correct either. My unit adjusts the sensor signals rather than ecu values so I've not needed to delve into the workings of the ecu.

[Epic pooh]

IIDTool has had significant software revisions over their life - I've had two major revisions in the time I've had mine and am looking forward to another revision in the near future - each time the functionality has increased quite a bit (as have some of the subtleties).