110 ROLLCAGE

[voltron]

I'm looking at the Safety Devices roll cage purely for extra protection for the
family. Expensive but it's something I feel I need to do.

What are the legalities of these in NSW?
Has anyone fitted one of these or any other style of roll cage into their 110?

any other info would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

[juddy]

Give me a call we are bring a few over in our container, can add to this is you want to save some bucks.

[inside]

I'm interested too. A Defender in a roll over is just not a pretty thought. What dollars are we talking?

[KarlB]

Very complicated issue and depends on the 'sort' of roll cage. Internal 4 point generally OK; internal 6 point generally OK if you remove the front two 'points' while driving on a public road. A good souce of info is here: http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/vehicle_regulation/bulletin/pdf/NCOP7_Section_LK_Seating_and_Occupant_Protection_1 Jan2011_v2.pdf. External roll cages are a minefield in more ways than one! If occupant protection is really high on your list, be sensible and sell the Defender and buy a Discovery or Range Rover.

Cheers
KarlB
:)

[frantic]

For legal purposes bolt it to the chassis, you could weld the tube then put a plate so it appears bolted;) , and call it a roof rack.
Does anyone have the shape or pictures of the front NAS spec hoop under the wings and where it bolts/ is welded to chassis? Just found it on devon4x4 http://www.devon4x4.com/images/stories/PDF/l138%20fitting%20instructions.pdf

[voltron]

Very complicated issue and depends on the 'sort' of roll cage. Internal 4 point generally OK; internal 6 point generally OK if you remove the front two 'points' while driving on a public road. A good souce of info is here: http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/vehicle_regulation/bulletin/pdf/NCOP7_Section_LK_Seating_and_Occupant_Protection_1 Jan2011_v2.pdf. External roll cages are a minefield in more ways than one! If occupant protection is really high on your list, be sensible and sell the Defender and buy a Discovery or Range Rover.

Cheers
KarlB
:)


Karl

I understand what you are saying but I have the Defender and I like the Defender so if I can deal with the roll over issue with a reputable strong roll cage , then I am happy to go along those lines.

[voltron]

Give me a call we are bring a few over in our container, can add to this is you want to save some bucks.

I will give you a call later this afternoon or tomorrow then. Sounds like a good way to go.

I dont really see any point in not bolting it to the chassis as this is the strongest method isn't it??

Cheers

[juddy]

Just to give you all a indication of the price we can offer.

Have a look at the Safety Devices page. Heres a selection from the range.

All price include GST but not local ( Australian inside Delivery )

RBL011SSS Defender 110 CSW $1390

RBL 0753SSS Defender 130 Front $1150, rear also available.

RBL1155SSS 90 and 1100 hard top Internal Rear $990

RBL1727SSS Defender 110 NAS, Euro Spec Full external Cage. $3700

RBL0247SSS Discovery 1 3 Door $1520

RBL2167SSS Discovery 2 $2900

RBL0335SSS 90/110 Hard Top Internal Rear $3600

RBL2197SSS Discovery 3, 2005, Internal $3600

[inside]

Are these delivered prices to Australia or is it extra?

[juddy]

I have add the answer to your question to my post.:)

[inside]

OK so to be clear it is delivery in Australia but not to my house? So if I picked it up from you the price above is the total?

[isuzurover]

Just to give you all a indication of the price we can offer.

Have a look at the Safety Devices page. Heres a selection from the range.

All price include GST but not local ( Australian inside Delivery )

RBL011SSS Defender 110 CSW $1390

RBL 0753SSS Defender 130 Front $1150, rear also available.

RBL1155SSS 90 and 1100 hard top Internal Rear $990

RBL1727SSS Defender 110 NAS, Euro Spec Full external Cage. $3700

RBL0247SSS Discovery 1 3 Door $1520

RBL2167SSS Discovery 2 $2900

RBL0335SSS 90/110 Hard Top Internal Rear $3600

RBL2197SSS Discovery 3, 2005, Internal $3600

Do you have a price for this one?

Make: Land Rover

Model: Defender 110 Station Wagon 4-door (1983-present)

Description:

Roll cage number L138/3. 4 point external bolt-in front roll cage.

Front options:

RBL138 3SSS - External front roll cage.
May be used alone.

- See more at: Land Rover Defender 110 Station Wagon 4 Point Bolt-in Roll Cage | Safety Devices (http://www.safetydevices.com/expedition/products/roll-cage/Land+Rover+Defender+110+-1983-present/274/#sthash.WkVVUGsk.dpuf)

[DefenderJim]

Juddy,

What is your estimated shipping of a full external roll cage for 110 station wagon to Adelaide?

Cheers

Jim

[djam1]

If this all works out I would be interested in a
RBL011SSS Defender 110 CSW $1390

Would it be possible to give a price on to Karratha WA 6714

[n plus one]

I'm looking at the Safety Devices roll cage purely for extra protection for the
family. Expensive but it's something I feel I need to do.

What are the legalities of these in NSW?
Has anyone fitted one of these or any other style of roll cage into their 110?

any other info would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

Doesn't look like the kind of thing I'd describe as a roll cage at a rego inspection, in fact it looks like the kind of thing one might describe as a roof rack 'like those Jeeps have'...:wasntme:

[voltron]

If this all works out I would be interested in a
RBL011SSS Defender 110 CSW $1390

Would it be possible to give a price on to Karratha WA 6714

This is what I would be interested in as well.

I can't work out which is the one which is the one with the cage
that extends to the front but externally but a price on that one would
be good to know as well.

Cheers

[CharlesTeton]

www.whitbread-offroad.co.uk

Is another company here in the UK and they do flat packed.

I'm having a custom cage made by them for my Dormobile Defender 2011.

Malcolm is the main guy and the prices are very good.

[flagg]

Sensible thing to do would be for people in the same state to get together and talk to engineer. I'm in ACT and I'm interested in the 110 CSW one.. but I would have to be able to get full engineer's tick (calling it whatever he/she is happy with calling it).

Anyone else in ACT want to share shipping / engineering costs?

[isuzurover]

Sensible thing to do would be for people in the same state to get together and talk to engineer. I'm in ACT and I'm interested in the 110 CSW one.. but I would have to be able to get full engineer's tick (calling it whatever he/she is happy with calling it).

Anyone else in ACT want to share shipping / engineering costs?

The even more sensible thing would be to call it a roof rack IMHO.
WA rules make it very difficult or even impossible to fit an internal roll cage to a vehicle with full registration. However in all states I am aware of there are no approvals for external roof racks/ladder racks.

[LoveB]

Sensible thing to do would be for people in the same state to get together and talk to engineer. I'm in ACT and I'm interested in the 110 CSW one.. but I would have to be able to get full engineer's tick (calling it whatever he/she is happy with calling it).

Anyone else in ACT want to share shipping / engineering costs?

raises hand

[juddy]

Safety device are Land Rover approved. and comply with BS6323.

I would find it hard to believe adding a ROPS to a land rover is something that would affect a roadworthy. How can it. its making it safer.

[juddy]

OK so to be clear it is delivery in Australia but not to my house? So if I picked it up from you the price above is the total?

Yes that would be a pickup from us price.

[flagg]

Do you have a price on RBL242 7SSS?

[juddy]

Do you have a price on RBL242 7SSS?

$3700.

[voltron]

I'll give you a call tomorrow Judd.

Cheers

[isuzurover]

Hi Juddy - in case you missed it on the previous page:

Do you have a price for this one?

Make: Land Rover

Model: Defender 110 Station Wagon 4-door (1983-present)

Description:

Roll cage number L138/3. 4 point external bolt-in front roll cage.

Front options:

RBL138 3SSS - External front roll cage.
May be used alone.

- See more at: Land Rover Defender 110 Station Wagon 4 Point Bolt-in Roll Cage | Safety Devices (http://www.safetydevices.com/expedition/products/roll-cage/Land+Rover+Defender+110+-1983-present/274/#sthash.WkVVUGsk.dpuf)




Safety device are Land Rover approved. and comply with BS6323.

I would find it hard to believe adding a ROPS to a land rover is something that would affect a roadworthy. How can it. its making it safer.

Unfortunately the australian regs are not that sensible...
This is the most relevant WA document I can find:
http://www.transport.wa.gov.au/mediaFiles/LBU_VS_CI_123.pdf

And for anywhere that has adopted the NCOP so LK9 applies:
http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/vehicle_regulation/bulletin/pdf/NCOP7_Section_LK_Seating_and_Occupant_Protection_1 Jan2011_v2.pdf

An important quote from the above document:

Code LK9 does not cover externally mounted roll-cages or ROPS

[flagg]

Hi Juddy - in case you missed it on the previous page:

Do you have a price for this one?






Unfortunately the australian regs are not that sensible...
This is the most relevant WA document I can find:
http://www.transport.wa.gov.au/mediaFiles/LBU_VS_CI_123.pdf

And for anywhere that has adopted the NCOP so LK9 applies:
http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/vehicle_regulation/bulletin/pdf/NCOP7_Section_LK_Seating_and_Occupant_Protection_1 Jan2011_v2.pdf

An important quote from the above document:


* Requires Jurisdictional Approval includes approval obtained directly from an officer of a Registration Authority or certification from a
signatory or other person authorised by a jurisdiction to certify modifications and/or installations in accordance with Codes LK8, LK9 and
LK10.

So by that an external cage can just be engineered?

[juddy]

Having spoken to Transport I can confirm for Queensland that the safety devices External ROPS can be fitted, and do not require any certification.

[cal415]

Juddy, how much for RBL247 7SSS ?

[juddy]

Juddy, how much for RBL247 7SSS ?

Disco 2 one?

[cal415]

Defender 130 i beleive? according to their website, its the type that has no internal cage just exo.

[juddy]

$3950.00

[isuzurover]

How much for RBL138?
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[juddy]

How much for RBL138?
http://www.offroad-trading.com/4wd/images/product/protection/safety-devices-RBL138.png

$1550.00, valid for 5 days.

[voltron]

After speaking to Juddy about the roll cage for the 110, there seems to be no real option at the moment for later model Defenders. I'm a bit impatient tbh and can't wait until they decided to develope an updated cage. So I did some ringing around and spoke to an Engineering firm in Newcastle who were very helpful and had no problems in engineering a cage for the Defender. He then put me onto a mob who makes all the cages for minesite vehicles all through the Hunter Valley. Minesite vehicles are all road registerd vehicles as well.

I am taking the car to the fabrication place tomorrow so they can look at the car being familiar only with the Patrols and Landcruisers. They are also going to look at the design of the safety devices 6 point internal cage and get some ideas on where they mount them. He is happy to design and build it as long as he agrees with the design and that he feels it is safe. He knows exactly what is required in terms of NSW road legalities and can build it to be legal and certified.



I will let you all know how it goes.

Cheers

[cal415]

Voltron- i would be very interested to hear what companys you have been talking to.. can you post up details please

[isuzutoo-eh]

Very interested in what you come up with too, Voltron and Mick.
The Safety Devices cage that best suits my desires is the L148
Land Rover Defender 110 Station Wagon Multi Point Bolt-in Roll Cage | Safety Devices (http://www.safetydevices.com/expedition/products/roll-cage/Land+Rover+Defender+110+-1983-present/655/)

[voltron]

Mullen Engineering in Cardiff is the engineering firm, and he put me onto the fabrication shop based out in Industrial Singleton.
It was interesting, how uncooperative a all the other firms I rang were. All I got was a lecture about my choice in car and why
don't I just buy a Landcruiser to then tell me they weren't interested.

Both these guys said nothing, seemed to know the whole process and what is required from a NSW legislation perspective and asked me to see the car to make sure there is plenty of clearance between the passengers head and the bars along the roof and wanted to be sure there is sufficient mounting points he feels are safe.

The engineer even said external isn't a problem as long as certain measures were met, but he knows many builders have personal opinions on them and aren't in favor of anything external.

Will keep you all updated.

[voltron]

Took the 110 into the fabricator this morning. He had a good look over the car for an hour. I showed him the images of the Safety Devices 4 and 6 point cages
which were pretty much in line with what he thought he would do with the Defender.

He felt he should put in diagonal x bracing behind the 2nd row passenger seats to give it more strength which the SD cage didnt have. He will also improve a few things he felt were necessary. The Post's which run behind the drivers and front passenger seat will angle backwards to allow the seat to still be able to tilt backward. This will make it difficult for the passengers to get in, not impossible, just fiddly. I have small children so it wont bother them but for adults it will be tight.

A bonus is that he can install child restraint anchor points onto the frame and he can put a cargo barrier onto the hoop also, killing 2 birds with 1 stone if you were looking at a crab bar and cargo barrier for children.

If you just want a 4 point behind the 2nd row seats that is also fine. Im am going for a 6 point the runs behind the front seats.

To give you an idea on his experience, for a good part of the last 8 years he was building up to 20 RTA approved roll cages a month for Patrols and Landcruisers during the coal boom for Hunter VAlley mining companies. He also builds for race cars including his own to CAM spec and this year his own saved his life when he went 170km into the trees at Targa Tasmania in his Evo 8. I have heard alot of good things about him through racing circles.

It's not a SD cage but for me at this stage I feel its the best option I have given they dont make one for the latest 110. I was given a price of $3k at the most. But he hopes it will be about $2k, as it all depends how easy the build process goes.

I drop my car off to him next monday for a week.

Cheers
Graham

[Iain_B]

I'm a bit late on this thread, been travelling for a while and currently up in Nhulanbuy. I have the SD external roll cage on my MY2011 110. I got this one Land Rover Defender 110 Station Wagon Multi Point Bolt-in Roll Cage | Safety Devices (http://www.safetydevices.com/expedition/products/roll-cage/Land+Rover+Defender+110+-1983-present/290/)

I did not fit the internal hoop, as I found it interfered too much with the rear seats, and we pretty close to my head and shoulder. The 6 point roll cage is the same without the internal hoop. When we are travelling, I have a Milford Cargo barrier, but might make up my own barrier similar to the SD internal hoop.

This is what it looks like, if anyone wants any specific photos, let me know, soon, as we head off on Tuesday and will next be in internet range when we get to Broome in a few weeks time.
64931

[voltron]

Thanks Ian.

That looks awesome.

I initially asked for an external design but no matter how much I try to convince any of the fabricators, they just will not touch any external cage ideas. They gave me an explanation which was reasonable and makes sense but at the end of the day I know nothing about cages and designers will always see it from the standards that CAMS have issued.

They all agree, if the car just pops onto it's roof or drops onto it's side the external cage design will be more then capable, but if the vehicle rolls at speed and sideway forces on the bars come into play then the cage becomes dangerous. That's not my belief, just their explanation and belief.

So that is why I have to go with the internal. Also they wouldn't do anything without an internal hoop, which might not be to everybody's liking.

The mounting points and distance the cage is placed from seats and back rest's etc I am happy with. I'm not sure how the SD cage sits though..

Cheers

[newhue]

Does anyone have any idea how much these things way. It could put a touring truck way over GVM if you near already.
For my money an external is the go. It doubles as a roof rack, tie points, an protects the body in the case of a slow 4x4 roll. Internal cage would mean all safe, but body work to repair, and cramp the interior further.

For the 130 tdci boys, perhaps a PM to oil worker. He has an external on his 130.

Ben from APT is also looking at a Aus standard version of the safety devices product, but not sure how far his got.
My brush bars and sliders are from 50mm seamless roll cage material. It was expansive and didn't mandrel bend easily. So it's difficult to play with but mild steel would be a waste of time if not way to heavy.

[voltron]

Does anyone have any idea how much these things way. It could put a touring truck way over GVM if you near already.
.

Good point.

[newhue]

I'm guessing 80 to 150kg. Unfortunately for me I'm at GVM on tour and looking at a roof top boat to complicate things. The added weight of a cage is just too much. Bit of a shame as I could claim it as a work related thing to carry painters trestles, but I can't sell it to the wife on shaft grounds anyway.
So I figured "driving to conditions" rules out 99% of the reasons why.

[juddy]

The Cages from SD, are allowed by QLD transport due to the fact they have been tested and meet the rules.

I am not sure if home made/ or company made ones will pass if not tested, or made to the specific requirements.

Are state rules different for this?

[voltron]

Juddy.

They 2 people who do the one's for NSW mine sites have done all their testing at Sydney university, having to buy a shell and fit the cages design into the car and send the car to Sydney uni for crushing.

This is one reason why they are on top of all the requirements in NSW, the only reason they would go this far was because at the end of the day providing all the minesites with ROPS systems with cages is a lucrative contract. The Engineer and fabricator have been working a long time together initally through race car cage certification initally.

Cheers