Knowing what you eat

[Chucaro]

This is a must see documentary movie if you like to know what you or your family eat.
It is not only about Monsanto, Dupont, Bayer, etc but also how some global corporations and corrupt politicians trying to stop our right to know and freedom of choice.
If you share my concern then, pass the link to your love ones ;)

Seeds Of Death : Monsanto Exposed (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJfLw2XXdBU)

[superquag]

Not only the above, but Monsanto has bought up a substantial number of the seed supply companies in WA, and I believe throughout Australia.. . Would they be having an each-way bet, or simply ensuring a monopoly?

Why am I not surprised?

Never mind that most of Europe does'nt want GM produce,

In Europe, March Against Monsanto Is Latest Rejection of the GMO Giant (http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/16565-in-europe-march-against-monsanto-is-latest-rejection-of-the-gmo-giant)

and more than one country's courts have convicted Monsanto of...Lying.

Monsanto Lies, Again (and Again and Again) | Corporate Crime Daily (http://corporatecrime.wordpress.com/2009/10/17/monsanto-lies-again-and-again-and-again/)

As for being more cost-effective... My farmer friends beg to differ. GM crops can be very sensitive to timely 'poisoning' and failure due to weather etc can create huge losses of 'Return on Investment'

One has to ask why our pollies are so keen to let them in, especially with our (previous...) world class plant breeding expertise...

[Chucaro]

For those that may think that "this is another conspiracy theory" just remember (if you are old enough) that this is the Monsanto that said that
DDT, PCB,saccharin,saccharin,etc were safe ;)

[PhilipA]

Chucaro, while I agree with the thrust of the article I find it unduly alarmist and also pushing the barrow of the organics industry. AFAIK ther ehave been no human health trials for Neem which is used by teh organics industry.
Have a look at this site which IMHO gives a pretty good overview.
Genetically modified (GM) foods | Better Health Channel (http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcarticles.nsf/pages/Genetically_modified_foods)

[PhilipA]

Chucaro, while I agree with the thrust of the article I find it unduly alarmist and also pushing the barrow of the organics industry. AFAIK for example there have been no human health trials for Neem which is used by the organics industry.
Have a look at this site which IMHO gives a pretty good overview.
Genetically modified (GM) foods | Better Health Channel (http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcarticles.nsf/pages/Genetically_modified_foods)

The main drivers of wanting GM are not politicians but FARMERS who want to make more money.

I was involved in advising the NSW Govt back in 2003 or so to place a moratorium on GM trials and as the article says AFAIK today no GM foods are grown in Australia for human consumption.

They also have to be labelled in Australia.

The big problem is that export markets like Japan do not pay farmers a significant premium for certified GM free grain, particularly when it is cattle feed. They worry about direct human consumption but couldn't care less about what their animals eat which is a bit short sighted.
BTW the doco is about 10-15 years out of date and the 50 year old spray shots are pretty amateurish.
BTW do you know that ALL wine yeasts in Australia are GM? So if you drink wine you will die soon.( well according to the doco).
Regards Philip A

[Tank]

Did you see the story in the USA a few years back how Monsanto sent a farmer into bankruptcy because he had the hide to keep some of his wheat crop to plant the next year. Seems the wheat is owned (somehow) by Monsanto and this wheat will only grow if you use certain Monsanto chemicals, so each year you have to buy Monsanto seed, talk about a monopoly, Regards Frank.

[Chucaro]

Philip, the video can be old but by all means not out of date. What was described in it is what happens now in the 3rd world countries.
The filming of the spray are a non copy writhed clips and the way of spraying is currently used in many countries.
Regarding Neem it is not genetically modified and it is in use for more than 1000 years. I trust more the use of Neem than a product modified by a greedy corporation like Monsanto.
When I was doing (here in Australia) the Bs in Agriculture Mechanization the teaching in minimum tillage techniques was in many cases based in a heavy use of Roundup. I say this to show you that research and formal education it is not necessary more reliable or valid than the teaching of using natural pest control plants that have been used by hundreds of years.
How wrong was that teaching at the Uni when they promoted the use of minimum and zero tillage to protect the soil and at the same time used Roundup which killed the biologic life in the soil for many years to come.
It make you wonder.......

You are saying the in Australia the food must be labeled as a GM why then the wine labels do not say anything about GM ingredients on it?
I would appreciate if you can provide me with a document proving this with the list of the wineries that using GM yeast so I can complain about it.
Cheers

[Chucaro]

Frank, that story of the farmer in USA it is repeating not only there but in South America as well.
The Argentinian present government is sold out to the use of GM soy from Monsanto and amount of land used by that crop up there is main blowing !
Many of the points in the video including are happening now in Argentina and Paraguay.

[Chucaro]

McDonalds removes chemical ammonium hydroxide from hamburger recipe (http://buzz.naturalnews.com/000893-McDonalds-ammonium_hydroxide-hamburgers.html)

ccording to Oliver, the fatty parts of beef are "washed" in ammonium hydroxide and used in the filling of the burger. He says, "Basically, we're taking a product that would be sold in the cheapest way for dogs, and after this process, is being given to human beings."

Besides the low quality of the meat, the ammonium hydroxide is harmful to health. Oliver calls it "the pink slime process."

"Why would any sensible human being put meat filled with ammonia in the mouths of their children?" asked the chef, who wages a war against the fast food industry.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/09/1337.jpg

[PhilipA]

You are saying the in Australia the food must be labeled as a GM why then the
wine labels do not say anything about GM ingredients on it?

I guess it is less than 1% or does not retain genetic characteristics.

The yeasts and cheese starter cultures were developed by Mauri Foods in the 80s in their then laboratory in Italy. I helped them find distributors in Chile and South Africa, and the yeasts helped the great quality improvements in those producers in the last 20 -30 years. They sold the business now many years ago, but the yeasts will still be sold.

BTW the question of Plant Variety Rights PVR's is completely different. Given that there is a legislative framework that limits GMO to cotton, the philosophy is that breeders of new varieties , eg black tomatoes , should be rewarded for the time and effort. NSW Ag has only AFAIK bred wheat varieties and these are still "public domain".

My point about Neem is that yes maybe it has been used for many years but there has never been research to prove it safe on humans. Also you may be surprised to know that organic wine contains SO2 which is an allergy agent to 6% of the population , including me.

So you cannot be SURE you are safe even if you eat organic food, let alone the health implications of natural fertilizer ie ( animal excreta) .
Regards Philip A

[Chucaro]

Philip, you never can be sure 100% of what it is safe or not, I am allergic to the 220 used in wines. The max 220 allowed in wines is 250pp and some of the Mediterranean wines have only 85pp. Also I get severe attacks of angioedema if I have rocket or a food with the ingredient on it :(
Regarding the GM yeast on wines as far I have read the wine industry do want to use it because are worry to loose the market. It is used by the USA wine makers.
I guess that we have to try to be informed and do our best to eat well :)

[PhilipA]

ccording to Oliver, the fatty parts of beef are "washed" in ammonium hydroxide
and used in the filling of the burger. He says, "Basically, we're taking a
product that would be sold in the cheapest way for dogs, and after this process,
is being given to human beings."

Chucaro, I have visited the Con Agra plant in Sydney and seen the process of making Macdonalds beef patties in Australia.

I can assure you that when I visited there was no pink slime used. Clean Fat was added to the lean meat to attain the required fat content while mixing for extrusion.

What I am trying to get across here is that Australia is not the USA or a South American country. We generally have much stricter rules. I have to say that IMHO this post follows many other similar ones where you throw up some scenario which is really a "straw man" . Oh well it makes good and lively discussion I guess and feeds paranoia .

BTW, I was thinking about your comment about using old footage of aerial and orchard spraying. The clips because of their age became a gross exaggeration.
In Australia a crop duster would be out of business in one day if they did that. For many years there have been VERY tight laws about the amount of wind speed allowed, buffer zones, testing of any livestock in the vicinity and mandatory warning to neighbours ( as a result of trace organophosphate being found in cattle by routine and regular testing) .In addition modern crop dusters have micro spray nozzles and give a positive charge to the nozzles so that the spray is attracted to the ground.

I also have to wonder about your comments about Roundup destroying micro organisms. I have been on many many farms and the weed growth after one season can sometimes be wondrous to behold. Roundup never seems to fully kill my Privet trees and they come back after a couple of years.

I guess the most powerful argument is that if you live to 60 now the odds are you will live to mid 80s. Tell that to some peasant using Neem 500 years ago if you can talk to them before they die at 40-50. Even in Germany in the late 19th century , the life expectancy was 65 and so the pension was set at 65.
Regards Philip A

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[Chucaro]

Philip, I have never said that it is happens in Australia, the post shows the ethics of the corporations mentioned and what are doing to the environment and human health.
Your replies give me the impression that you are backing up Monsanto and other chemicals manufacturer products which have been proved to be harmful to health and the ecosystem.
Regarding Roundup, it is not a herbicide designed to kill had weeds or trees. You use other chemicals for trees.
Glyphosate 360 is the generic herbicide which competes with Roundup. Because the competition in the market by the introduction of the generic herbicide Monsanto developed Roundup Ready. This products kills algae which produce carbohydrates through photosynthesis that are an important food source for beneficial fungi and bacteria in the soil.
It will be to long for me here to explain other damages that Roundup does and I suggest to you to read research by Doctor Don Huber of Purdue University, Johal, G.S. and D.M. Huber. Glyphosate effects on diseases of plants. 2009. European Journal of Agronomy 31:144-152, etc
I cannot understand how you can base your arguments about Round Up based in a parcel of soil in your land :eek:
I expected some replies to my post with the term "paranoia" it is the easy position when a topic it is to hard to comprehend or study.
Your arguments about life longevity in Germany and other countries do not take into consideration the advances in human health care. It is a not valid comment.
Cheers
Arthur

[PhilipA]

Your replies give me the impression that you are backing up Monsanto and
other chemicals manufacturer products which have been proved to be harmful to
health and the ecosystem.

Here we go again Chucaro, maybe like the soapbox.
You are attributing attitudes to me that I do not have. There is an old saying which the Labor Party has recently found out." You have lost an argument when you start playing the man"
I have no bias towards chemical companies in fact as I stated before I was part of a team that advised the NSW Government to introduce a 5 year moratorium on even GMO trials. As you will know this will delay introduction of GMO by up to 10 years .
All I try to do is provide some balance to your posts which IMHO are extreme and you present without comment. By your lack of qualifying that these things MAY happen in the USA and South America IMHO you suggest they happen in Australia by omission.

If you are an Australian Graduate in Ag Science then you should know that all this stuff does not apply and you should know the stringent rules relating to chemicals ,additives and in particular GMO, so I wonder what the point is. Your posting title was " Be careful what you eat" when it is very unlikely that in Australia you could eat enough GMO to hurt you even if you tried.

The video you posted shows outrageous footage of spraying probably DDT 50 years ago and passes it off as what happens now. The doco shows cash being handed over implying rampant corruption. It gives time to practitioners who promote "natural "therapy and very much time to "organic" growers who may or may not be organic in the Australian sense as the USA rules are much more lax than Australia's.

There are benefits to GMO when used for non human uses which you seem to completely discount or ignore. For example GMO corn yields have made Ethanol much cheaper than otherwise in the USA thus reducing oil usage. Cotton production in Australia is far more reliable with GMO cotton, even though Monsanto charges a lot for its use. Farmers however choose to grow it because it is more profitable and most ( over 80% AFAIR ) cotton grown in Australia is now GMO and has been for at least 15 years.

I have not seen any feedback about loss of yield or other problems associated with GMO and I visited a major cotton property last year and have friends who own cotton farms. The group I was with was given a demo of knockdown spraying on a close paddock and none of us could even smell any chemical let alone be touched by drift.

I agree with you that rampant use of GMO withjout adequate testing and labelling is very bad, its just the "Al Gore" nature of the doco that brands it as unbalanced propaganda. Monsanto does have a point that it is up to the USA and other governments to establish the rules but we in Australia cannot do anything about it if they don't. More fool them.

Regards Philip A

[Chucaro]

Here we go again Chucaro, maybe like the soapbox.
You are attributing attitudes to me that I do not have. There is an old saying which the Labor Party has recently found out." You have lost an argument when you start playing the man"
My comment was in relation to your original comment about me, Quote: I have to say that IMHO this post follows many other similar ones where you throw up some scenario which is really a "straw man" . Oh well it makes good and lively discussion I guess and feeds paranoia .
If you are an Australian Graduate in Ag Science then you should know that all this stuff does not apply and you should know the stringent rules relating to chemicals ,additives and in particular GMO, so I wonder what the point is. Your posting title was " Be careful what you eat" when it is very unlikely that in Australia you could eat enough GMO to hurt you even if you tried.
I did not say that I am Australian Graduate in Ag Science, I said Agricultural Mechanization which it is a complete different and as I am aware not longer available
The video you posted shows outrageous footage of spraying probably DDT 50 years ago and passes it off as what happens now. The doco shows cash being handed over implying rampant corruption. It gives time to practitioners who promote "natural "therapy and very much time to "organic" growers who may or may not be organic in the Australian sense as the USA rules are much more lax than Australia's.
You are entitled to have a point of view, I have mine and belive my sources
There are benefits to GMO when used for non human uses which you seem to completely discount or ignore. For example GMO corn yields have made Ethanol much cheaper than otherwise in the USA thus reducing oil usage. Cotton production in Australia is far more reliable with GMO cotton, even though Monsanto charges a lot for its use. Farmers however choose to grow it because it is more profitable and most ( over 80% AFAIR ) cotton grown in Australia is now GMO and has been for at least 15 years.
IMO the factors against are enough to refrain to use GMO seeds in agriculture
I have not seen any feedback about loss of yield or other problems associated with GMO and I visited a major cotton property last year and have friends who own cotton farms. The group I was with was given a demo of knockdown spraying on a close paddock and none of us could even smell any chemical let alone be touched by drift.

I agree with you that rampant use of GMO withjout adequate testing and labelling is very bad, its just the "Al Gore" nature of the doco that brands it as unbalanced propaganda. Monsanto does have a point that it is up to the USA and other governments to establish the rules but we in Australia cannot do anything about it if they don't. More fool them.

Regards Philip A

Are some of the GMO seed imported to Australia protected by Monsanto copy wright laws? If yes, then many of the problems mentioned in the video are applicable in Australia.
Looks like that we have to agree to disagree in this topic ;)

[PhilipA]

Are some of the GMO seed imported to Australia protected by Monsanto copy
wright laws? If yes, then many of the problems mentioned in the video are
applicable in Australia.

OK last post. I will answer your question if I can.
The State Government agencies were very aware of the possibility of cross contamination when they decided to start the moratorium. the BIG question is not so much buffer zones ,as
How do you segregate GMO from non GMO in the grain stream , in silos trucks ships etc. How do you stop contamination of organic products?

BUT while world markets do not give large premiums for non GMO it will get harder and harder for governments to stop farmers from using it, as they see the benefits that cotton farmers enjoy.
The other point that we should look at is that GMO is now more than 20 years old , yet I am not aware of any published studies that link GMO to human health problems. Europe has had plenty of time to conduct studies .
The organic movement I am sure will seize on any firm evidence and publicise it widely.

Regards Philip A