New Puma - Change down 3rd to 2nd hesitant

[Lagerfan]

Okay so bit of an odd one but our 6 month old Puma 90 has one annoying feature (since new) which just doesn't feel right. When changing down from 3rd to 2nd gear there is a real hesitant spot where 3rd is too high and 2nd too low, you nearly always end up kangarooing and feeling like a goose. At first I just thought I was changing down too soon but I've noticed that if I stay in 3rd the engine lugs so that can't be right either.

Anyway, it's going in for a first service very soon and I thought I'd put it out there for any suggestions as to what to ask the dealer to look at. We also have the usual backlash issue but not really any worse than others mention around here.

Any suggestions appreciated.

Cheers,
Heinz

[one_iota]

I'll be interested in what others have to say about this, but I'd put it down to the big gap between 2nd and 3rd ratios which you will also notice (less dramatically of course) when changing up. I find myself easing the clutch out slowly when changing down to 2nd to minimise the "shock". So I think it is probably a characteristic of the puma Defender's gearbox. It certainly makes any driveline backlash apparent.

[BigBlueOne]

I only change down to second around 20km/h and don't get any backlash etc. Any faster and it hops along :)

[dawsey]

I tend to use 3rd gear as you would a 2nd in my puma,,do most of my cornering in 3rd..Just out of curiosity is the drive train slop (back lash) more pronounce in a longer wheelbase ie. 90 110 130 because of a longer tail shaft. I've never driven anything but a 110.

[Naks]

Not sure why you are trying to gear down to 2nd?

I very rarely have to gear down to 2nd when coming to a stop. By the time I've geared down into 3rd, it's clutch in and brakes to come to a full stop over a 10m-5m distance.

[Lagerfan]

Not sure why you are trying to gear down to 2nd

Well you're right, when coming to a stop it isn't really an issue, 3rd + brake and finally clutch in does that nicely, no probs there.

It's more low speed maneuvers, say like pulling into a car park, small roundabouts etc. sticking in 3rd too long causes lugging, change to 2nd and you kangaroo. I can certainly live with it (the <20kph rule is a good example BigBlueOne) but I guess my question is whether it is a problem or a feature of the Puma gearbox as one_iota says. My money is on the latter but just thought I'd ask for others experiences.

[Leroy_Riding]

with my 90 I rarely use first unless towing as the ratio is too low, so as said before 3rd is more of your second and 1/2 are more of one gear split in two, if I am going slow enough to be needing second generally that is low enough to not 'jump' while changing down, the puma will pull fine at 1000rpm and a bit less in 3rd by that time its fine to change down to 2nd. .

Leroy

[JamesB71]

Mine is the same mate. Must be a gear ratio thing.

Pulls like train in 3rd though. Very useful gear.

[one_iota]

My partner calls 1st and 2nd "1a and 1b". :D

[JamesB71]

My partner calls 1st and 2nd "1a and 1b". :D

Lol.

[debruiser]

I dont seem to have any troubles, but then I drive low revs most of the time.... My puma rarely sees anything above 2500rpm and I'd only go that high if I'm in a hurry normally i shift at 2000-2250.

Downshifting is ok for me. I agree if you go down to anything below 1000rpm in 3rd if will labour pretty heavily for a second, then pick up. It can be a pain if it happens just at the wrong time.

I have found that if you accelerate in 3rd up to say 2000rpm then go for 4th as you engage 4th don't accelerate or even slow down it'll do a stupid surging thing. Anyone else noticed that? doesn't seem to do it all the time... maybe it's just under a certain load/condition.

Other than that I love the 6speed. Great low gear for crawling around or towing and what I think as good spacing between gears. I towed a SWB series 3 350kms the other day in 6th gear, I think I downshifted once because of a big hill.... not really on topic I know but that's my thoughts if your interested.

[Defender Mike]

I can slow to almost stop in 3rd when cornering in built up areas and then pull away without down changing to 2nd. I use the engine Torque my wife annoys the day lights out of me by always changing to a gear to low. Remember its a 6 speed box so the ratios of a 4 or 5 speed are spread wider . 1st is for uphill or towing 6th is over over drive . 2nd is like 1st and a half . The other thing to consider Is turbo lag and energy. If you let your turbo wind down to much and your energy bleed off then you will find you need to change back to 2nd. A blip of throttle and early on the gas anticipating the turbo lag will stop this from happening . Good luck my wife just can't seem to come to grips with it.
Mike:angel:

[Defender Mike]

I can slow to almost stop in 3rd when cornering in built up areas and then pull away without down changing to 2nd. I use the engine Torque my wife annoys the day lights out of me by always changing to a gear to low. Remember its a 6 speed box so the ratios of a 4 or 5 speed are spread wider . 1st is for uphill or towing 6th is over over drive . 2nd is like 1st and a half . The other thing to consider Is turbo lag and energy. If you let your turbo wind down to much and your energy bleed off then you will find you need to change back to 2nd. A blip of throttle and early on the gas anticipating the turbo lag will stop this from happening . Good luck my wife just can't seem to come to grips with it.
Mike:angel:

[Naks]

I tried the changing down to 2nd when coming to a stop - you are right, it does kangaroo a bit.

Unless you let the clutch out verrrry slowly, then it smoothes the kangarooing out a bit.

[voltron]

If coming to a stop I tend to change down to 2nd then stop as opposed to 3rd. This I feel minimizes backlash as if I clutch from 3rd to a stop then the backlash becomes quite evident.

[Lagerfan]

Thanks all. Much more confident now that it is a feature and not a problem! Like I say I'm happy to live with it, just very different to any other vehicle I've ever driven... including the smile it elicits every single time you get behind the wheel, six months on and no sign of that fading :D