The rich get richer.... Poor get...

[Tombie]

If I have to read such drivel again I think I'm going to ****ing scream!

The rich get richer by being smart with their money.
The poor get poorer by doing **** all to
Improve their position and making bad decisions.

People need to control their Credit / debt.
Continually bitching about poor getting poorer isn't the answer.

(This of course is open to modification for people who have ended in a bad position due to illness etc...)

But for those able bodies out there complaining - how about less messing around, work smart, invest (don't need a lot to get started) etc and you to will become "richer".

I've worked bloody hard to get where I am.
My wife even more so...

So those wanting a bigger slice of the pie-
Get off your arses and do something about it instead of union bull**** phrases..

Unions get richer too, a lot richer...
And don't give a flying **** about the people who pay their dues..
Anyone deluded enough to think they do is living in the 50's :-/

Arrrrgggghhhh...

[dullbird]

such a motivational speaker:D

now can you tell me what I have to do to get richer? because it aint gunna happen in my job anytime soon:p

[Disco Muppet]

Hey Mike, ever considered making one of those "How to get rich" DVDs? :D
I'll agree with the main point of your post, that people who whine and bitch about never having any money whilst never doing anything to earn it need to shut up, assuming they don't have a valid reason for said not earning.
That said, The people who inherit their money and also do nothing to earn it and judge other people simply because they can't afford to have daddy buy x or y also need a nice big cup of shut the **** up.

[loanrangie]

I do understand where you coming from Tombie but not every one has the skill set to better themselves so idont think its that black and white - i used to think it was but i'm grown up now :o.

[Tombie]

such a motivational speaker:D

now can you tell me what I have to do to get richer? because it aint gunna happen in my job anytime soon:p

Horse people only get richer by:

A) selling the horses
B) owning a Melbourne cup winner

:) :D :)

[Slunnie]

Mods, can this be moved into the Range Rover forums?

[loanrangie]

Horse people only get richer by:

A) selling the horses
B) owning a Melbourne cup winner

:) :D :)

Horse meat is back on the menu you know :D.

[Tombie]

I do understand where you coming from Tombie but not every one has the skill set to better themselves so idont think its that black and white - i used to think it was but i'm grown up now :o.

Mate...

I've seen a group of 30 people here who would have qualified as "dumb as a box of rocks"...
They went to Tafe, did a course, then another...

Not one of them earns less than $70k now.

(And no they don't just drive dump trucks)

[EchiDna]

I do understand where you coming from Tombie but not every one has the skill set to better themselves so idont think its that black and white - i used to think it was but i'm grown up now :o.

nobody is born with a skill set, you learn, you study, you apply yourself, you seek out opportunities to do all of the above no matter how young or old you are.... do none of the above and yes, you will be stuck being a checkout chick from age 15 until the age of compulsory retirement....

[Tombie]

Mods, can this be moved into the Range Rover forums?

You crack me up!!!

[mikehzz]

Well we can't all be rich or nobody would do anything...we'd all be sitting on a beach. It's vital that there are poor people to do all the **** jobs. That especially applies to 3rd world sweat shop factories that allow us to buy products at realistic prices. So next time you are giving advice to poor people about getting off there arses and becoming rich....keep quiet, they are vitally important to rich people as they are. Who else is going to clean the toilets?

[Tombie]

Slunnie - you make your living taking people with no skill sets.. And giving them some...

I've met an 85yr old woman who had just finished her degree... Been a cleaner all her working life...

[Tombie]

What is entertaining is the way people define Rich and Poor.

[frantic]

Actually with the NSW and Qld govt's new rules we are creating a new group of poor called the public servant.
An industrial relations commission that MUST rule in favour of the state Govt. in any public servant bought case.:eek:
Maximium of 2.5% pay rise whilst the pollies themselves get 2-3 times that:twisted:
And finally the one that will soon bite us all in the bum, no job security if they are doing their job correctly. This means that in the future if a public servant looks at a policy proposed by a minister and says "this will be hideously expensive/environmentally destructive/dangerous to peoples health" or as happened to Labour "we did not totally review that and therefore that claim is not true. " These public servants can be fired for saying something the Pollie in charge does not like or embarrasses the pollie. This means all reports will say what the sitting Govt wants!

[Slunnie]

Slunnie - you make your living taking people with no skill sets.. And giving them some...

I've met an 85yr old woman who had just finished her degree... Been a cleaner all her working life...

I think there will be varying opinions on what rich is and what poor is, just like there are varying opinions on what old is and what young is. My opinion is that a wage earner in most cases is neither rich or poor.

Edit, ok, we're thinking along the same.

[Tombie]

Pay rise? We have had less than CPI for 5 years...

Markets aren't as plentiful and unless the business makes a top profit why should it share to wealth?

Why does everyone expect a pay rise?!
Should they not be performance based :)

Those that worked hard and made the business money got a good deal.
Those who didn't - were rewarded in kind.

That's a fair incentive.

I'm not at work to carry anyone.

[rocmic]

This is completely simple anybody who earns more than me (no matter how much I earn) is rich.

There are a large number of people who earn more than me, there are also a larger number of people who earn less than me. Realistically thinking, I am very well off (after all I drive a D3 and SWMBO drives a BMW 320c :D). But we live in a very ordinary 3br suburban house. Compared to my wife's relatives in Peru (including a couple of doctors and colonel of police) we have it easy. The doctor's daughter had to stop University for a couple of semesters because he couldn't afford the fees at the time.

It seems to me that people are happy to try and live above their means, got to have the big McMansion, pool, three cars, the boat etc and then complain once they have got it that the cost of living is too great.

It seems in this country now; the more you have the more you whinge.

perhaps we should all migrate back to Europe.


What is entertaining is the way people define Rich and Poor.

[Eevo]

nobody is born with a skill set, you learn, you study, you apply yourself, you seek out opportunities to do all of the above no matter how young or old you are.... do none of the above and yes, you will be stuck being a checkout chick from age 15 until the age of compulsory retirement....

i agree noone is born with a skill set but some people are born more capable than others.

[slug_burner]

i agree noone is born with a skill set but some people are born more capable than others.

And a few are born into money.

[Tombie]

i agree noone is born with a skill set but some people are born more capable than others.

You mean have a mindset not aligned to their capability or skill set...

[Ancient Mariner]

Sell your LR You would save money !

[debruiser]

Performance based pay can be good, but it doesn't work/isn't fair in some sectors. Eg. performance pay for teachers based on student results. Low socio-economic school will always have lower results on the whole so why should the teacher in that school take a pay cut? OR you just wont get anyone to work there. Just one eg for you to ponder.

back to the topic though.

For me, rich is having enough money to pay the bills and enjoy myself (in my moderately non-materialistic lifestyle, and very cheap way). Poor is when I don't get to go camping or play in the shed on my latest project. I have chosen to only work 4 days a week at the moment, I get paid probably 1/2 what most of you get paid every week but that is ok really. I would prefer to be less stressed and be "richer" playing in the shed on my day off! O and for those of you who are going to say I'm lazy, you are probably correct but I have done my share of 6 days a week work too.

[bob10]

[QUOTE=rocmic;198748

perhaps we should all migrate back to Europe.[/QUOTE]

I suggest a small part of our population would agree with you. After all ,before the Europeans came here they considered themselves rich, in spirit and natural assets. Being 'rich' or 'poor' is a state of mind, you can have very little, and still be happy, or be rolling in it, and be miserable. My experience is, of those who hop on the upwardly mobile merry-go-round, only a few are smart enough to lead a balanced lifestyle, mixing work, family, & life in a healthy way. Most of the others are too busy killing themselves trying to earn money to keep up with the Jones's. Bob

[nugge t]

There is another strong factor in this arguement...willingness to take risk.

I have seen many people who have had excellent skills pass on opportunities because it involved moving interstate or putting skin in the game eg using their house as equity to start a business.

Equally I have seen other people with less skill or qualifications who were willing to put it on the line, take the risk, back themselves and have been very successful.

I don't think it unreasonable for the people who take the risk to accept the reward if it is there.

[mick88]

You have all overlooked one very important thing.
Good health is wealth! It gives us the ability and freedom to be able to enjoy the fruits of our labour.
I do agree that some people haven't had a lucky break in life or haven't been able to recognise the opportunity to run with it and improve their situation. Others have got off their butts and gone looking for their lucky break!
One thing is for sure, just because some people look wealthy and have all the toys doesn't mean they are!
Not all wealthy people flaunt their money.



Cheers, Mick.

[BigJon]

now can you tell me what I have to do to get richer? because it aint gunna happen in my job anytime soon:p

Right there is the classic mistake. The deciding factor isn't how much you earn. It is how much you spend and what you spend it on. (With the proviso that you aren't making less than you need to eat and have somewhere to sleep)

If you have expensive hobbies (I did see horses mentioned) then that is a choice. An alternative choice would be to invest the horse money and get a cheaper hobby! (knitting anyone?:D).

[disco gazza]

A short story about my own money problems.
Growing up I owned(bank really) a unit.After that a house,then I owned a nursery...went bankrupt...that was due more to the weather than anything else(we went into a drought at the time).
My brother who is a stockbroker lent me $5g to get me back on my feet.
After the usual ups and downs of the stockmarket,buying and selling and the current shape of the sharemarket(not good).
That original $5 thou is now worth over $340 thou.
That will get me the house that I want down the coast without having to go to the bank asking for a loan(not that they would give me one--too old lol).
I totally agree with Tombie,if you dont get off your ass and do something to help yourself you will never get anywhere.
Have always been interested in shares so when I retire(could be next year if the contract doesnt get renewed)I will still have a finger in the pie so to speak.

cheers

[loanrangie]

You mean have a mindset not aligned to their capability or skill set...

See you trying to make it black and white again, how does a single income father with kids and a mortgage and a low income afford to go to tafe or whatever to earn a new trade ? And if there are no training institutions close by what then ?

[BigJon]

See you trying to make it black and white again, how does a single income father with kids and a mortgage and a low income afford to go to tafe or whatever to earn a new trade ? And if there are no training institutions close by what then ?


For starters he could sell the house and rent something that is cheaper than the mortgage repayments / upkeep / etc. This hypothetical rental property could be closer to training institutions, etc.

There is almost always an answer, it just so happens that sometimes the answer isn't attractive to those asking the question.

[wrinklearthur]

What is entertaining is the way people define Rich and Poor.

Cash poor, life rich?
.

[moretonisle]

It has to be the height of arrogance to even raise this subject.
We can only think that the person that began this discussion regards themself as pretty damn good, or rich. Damn good and rich are pretty much the same in his thinking. Rich = good Poor = bad.

Some of us believe we should pay taxes for the common good. We don't look for every little loophole to avoid it. Being in business gives you much greater access to tax lurks than an employee. Employee pays tax, employer gets it back in the form of a deductible lunch or new car.

Some of us would rather not own rental properties and exploit those that can't afford their own. We might believe that its the role of government to provide housing (at a cost of course).

There are probably some of us who have a philosophical opposition to buying and trading shares. They would rather do work and be proud of what they produce rather than speculate on the markets and not produce anything but a profit for themselves.

I spent 25 years as a union official and did see some cases of workers ripping off employers. Every hour of every day there was an employer ripping off workers, ripping off the tax department or ripping off other employers.

The employers got rich and the workers got by.

Its offensive to me and I suspect a lot of others to beat your chest about your success and what you claim is others failure.

Remember : its easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to go to heaven !

[dobbo]

Both Tombie and myself are of equal age, both of us are on a decent pay.

This is where the story ends.

Differing lifestyles and geographically diverse residences lead to a varying amount of expenditures during a fiscal year.

Whilst I'm not exactly poor, I'm not driving an Aston on the weekends.

[nugge t]

I spent 25 years as a union official and did see some cases of workers ripping off employers. Every hour of every day there was an employer ripping off workers, ripping off the tax department or ripping off other employers.



mmmmmm...Craig Thompson, AWU, Training coal mine, if I remember righty John Coombes from the MUA had a million $ winery in the Hunter and lots of speculation in the west about a CFMEU official with a penthouse on top of the redeveloped Raffles just to name a few.

Aint all one sided I wouldn't have thought with plenty of evidence of unions ripping off the low paid and the employers as well. :D

[trog]

Cash poor, life rich?
.

cash poor and life poor. I have done the supposedlly right things in life. A tertiary education, attempts at skills upgrading and investments. At this point in my life for very little result. Through secondary school the "word " was to take a generalist degree to allow future flexibility. Not much call for a B A in Sociology these days. Later a foray into the public sector working with the arborists, where I was to take a Tafe equivelent course in tree lopping was cut short. Council amalgemation put me out the door Christmas Eve. The rest of the crew was gone in a year.since then taken whatever I could get often casual roles and built up a bit of a investment portfolio that was to get me through periods of unemployment[ such as the last 30 months] But this went pear shaped as well. Let with just our house.Take two in these past few months taken whatever comes up. Three occaisions where the casual job will lead to permanent. Let go , once for a new group of casuals [ promised the job after taking medical exam] another for myself and a colleague to be replaced by a work experience student.Last week for no reason other than being a casual and no excuse needed.Ask an employer to hire a long term casual as a permanent and enjoy the reasons why not.
I have done my own attempts at business including cleaning toilets , and worse for a Kings X adult club. Still feel sick at the memories.
So where next ? Centerlink wont have a bar of me, as my partner earns a bit more than the threshold . The one investment we have now wont prove cash positive for a while but not worth selling now and will supplement the meagre super I have garnered. In the meantime call the temp agency daily and apply for what I can. Still no money to be able to participate in the economic and social world. A great downward spiral.

[Chucaro]

Oh, Union bashing, this is heading toa political argument were passions can upset few members ;)
I would suggest on the spirit of harmony in the forum to tone down the union bashing or stop it altogether.
People never know what were the experiences in life of some of the AULRO members.

[wrinklearthur]

------- Remember : its easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to go to heaven !

I think hell would be trying to stuff a reluctant camel through a small space.

I am waiting for an opportunity to come along that's within my physical and intellectual capabilities, meanwhile I am quietly enjoying life with what I have.

This doesn't stop me from helping others that are finding it tough. Tasmanian Asylum Seeker Support - Home (http://www.tasasylum.org/index.html)
.

[jerryd]

Not sure why but this springs to mind :D


Monty Python - Four Yorkshiremen - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Xe1a1wHxTyo)


Having been seriously skint and rich for a day :D I can honestly say it didn't change my life, it maybe made me sleep better at night

[CraigE]

Unfortunately not that simple.
First point I make is whats the point if you are putting all your money into investments and not actually having a life?
Second what about those of us that have done this and then gotten burnt by the ATO, ATSIC or failed investments that were supposedly bulletproof and approved by the above. I know we have been there and are starting again.
The damage to super with the GFC? We have all lost so much on this alone.
Cost of just living these days is horrendous, try buying a decent house in WA for under $400k, get closer to city and more like $600k plus and there is a huge chunk of your income gone, then add kids etc
Then what about the low to mid income earners? I am on decent money and just seem to spend forever trying to get ahead let alone a family that may be on sub $50k per year.
Being in mining my income could cease at any time, and very nearly did earlier this year after only being in the position just over a year and a new mortgage, what then?
Not as simple as you may think to amass investments. Circumstances change and not all of us have good results from investing and I did not get burnt as bad as some I know. Some I know will never recover from these investments and worse for some families where people have suicided.
Our system is so lop sided and I am one of the ones now back on a great income. I really feel for families not on $100k a year plus that are trying to pay mortgages, raise kids etc and still have a life.
Look we should have 2 investment properties and an investment portfolio at this stage in life but dont because of circumstances outside our control and believe me if I did not fight the ATO would be a damn site worse off and have had to start again.
I was also a union rep for a long while and not going to get into the employer bashing, but it is alos naive to theink that employers dont rip off workers. They do and while it may not be a significant amount per employee it can be significant for the employer. There have been multiple prosecutions in WA. Having said that it is not that common and most employers try to look after their good employees. There is also the flipside to the coin where employees rort and bludge.
To be honest my wife works a damn site harder than I do physically and earns about a 1/4 of what I earn.

[nugge t]

The union support team has arrived I see.

The employer bashing started first .... "Every hour of every day there was an employer ripping off workers, ripping off the tax department or ripping off other employers."

There was acknowledgement of that there were "some cases of workers ripping off employers" but apparently union officials ripping of union members never happens. It is only ever the big bad boss.

Obviously balance in debate is still not allowed under Team Puce rules :D

However, I am happy to vacate the debate as I have important things to do like selling a Landie to buy another one and trying to further improve the sealed air duct system for Defender drivers :D

[BigJon]

Our system is so lop sided and I am one of the ones now back on a great income. .

Can you be more specific about this lopsided system?

[BigJon]

Oh, Union bashing, this is heading toa political argument were passions can upset few members ;)
I would suggest on the spirit of harmony in the forum to tone down the union bashing or stop it altogether.
People never know what were the experiences in life of some of the AULRO members.

To keep fair and balanced all pro union talk should stop as well. :p

[ugu80]

“While money can't buy happiness, it certainly lets you choose your own form of misery.”

“The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made.”

“Those are my principles, and if you don't like them...well I have others."

― Groucho Marx

[incisor]

Aint all one sided I wouldn't have thought

and that is exactly the point.

there is good and bad on all sides

generalisations that all unions are evil are just as obnoxious as statements that all employers are greedy.

in this day and age of entitlement, both sides want it all instead of working out a way of sharing the nations good fortune.

but you cant change human nature....

and a little fact

http://www.afr.com/p/national/rich_no_longer_getting_richer_Cqon6MbGn9ZrpVIm1THi ZO

[CraigE]

Agree with Inc there is good and bad on both side. I used to be an AWU rep and cannot stand that particular union anymore (a certain Bruce Wilson used to be our main organizer). Do not like militant unions like this CFMEW etc. I do believe some unions have a place and can benefit employees. Unions like the Police, Nurses and Hospitality tend to be a lot more reasonable with real grievances.

[CraigE]

Can you be more specific about this lopsided system?

Yep, I earn great money and have some skills, but look at some unskilled work eg our Haul Pack drivers that earn over $120k pa but person who works at Bunnings earns $40k and often can work harder and longer. Huge differences in pay scale. I am certainly not complaining about what I earn but can see the inequality in it.
My belief is that everyone that is prepared to put in the effort and commitment should be able to earn a good wage. This howver is not the case in large.
There seems to be the mentality because we earn more we work harder. That is utter BS, most of us that earn decent money have done so through positioning ourselves and a lot of luck. Outside the mining industry most of us would be earning significantly less. It is extremely difficult to get into the mining industry unless you have either been in it or know someone that can influence.
In general most people work about as hard as one another whether in a low paid retail job or a high paid mining, executive or trade job.
Not for a minute begrudging us or anyone earning decent money, but look at some of it a lot of Uni jobs that take 6 plus years to get qualified for earn sub $100k pa and pretty much will do so for life. Same position in mining will double their income.

[jerryd]

I think you should all be grateful for what you have and the fact that you live in this great country, I know I am

Now should I go to work or finish putting the gearbox in :angel:

Harry Enfield - Considerably richer than you - YouTube

[TheTree]

Hi

The opening premise here seems to be the old one about "if you are poor it is your own fault" This has been demonstrably proven false many times.


This all depends on what country you are talking about, in the US it is just getting worse, thanks to the big end of town and the GFC.

US Income Inequality Soars to Highest Levels on Record | Global Research (http://www.globalresearch.ca/us-income-inequality-soars-to-highest-levels-on-record/5349477)

In "socialist" Australia our inequality is nowhere near as bad as the US due to our tax system being more of a sliding scale.

You may find this interesting and much more relative to the issue than a lot of the micro economic generalisations i have read so far in this thread.

Wealth Distribution and Income Inequality by Country | Global Finance (http://www.gfmag.com/tools/global-database/economic-data/11944-wealth-distribution-income-inequality.html#axzz2ejCrYDUG)

You will note in the US that the top 10 own almost 30% of the wealth and that is 10 year old data, it is now over 50%

Our societies were built on the concept of the common good and a large middle class, this is now being eroded and societies are becoming more polarised, more selfish and less inclusive as a result.

The idea of "trickle down economics" has also been thoroughly discredited, it generates wealth only for the already rich.

In the end it all comes down to what type of society we wish to live in.

On a micro level is seems there is a lot more at play than simple laziness

Study: Poverty Worsens Decision-making (http://www.voanews.com/content/poverty-worsens-decision-making/1744545.html)

This is a complex issue which needs more than slogans and unsupported assertions

Steve

[dullbird]

Right there is the classic mistake. The deciding factor isn't how much you earn. It is how much you spend and what you spend it on. (With the proviso that you aren't making less than you need to eat and have somewhere to sleep)

If you have expensive hobbies (I did see horses mentioned) then that is a choice. An alternative choice would be to invest the horse money and get a cheaper hobby! (knitting anyone?:D).

Hey thanks heaps captian obvious that piece of advice really helped:D

however have you seen the price of wool:o:wasntme::Rolling:

[munro]

Tombie I find your post disrespectful to humanity. You obviously have no idea about the reality of life. If you take the silver spoon out of your mouth and get off the high pedestal you may stand a bit taller. My bank balance is zero but I am a much wealthier man than you. My wealth is not cash but love, understanding and compassion for real people.

I mean no disrespect to you personally as I don't know you personally but your post is very poor. I have worked hard all my life, like I would assume you and others, but I got badly ripped off by low life business partners and screwed over by a dishonest bank manager and solicitor. People I should have been able to trust. There was a time I could have boasted about my cash worth that could probably have been in your league, but I was cheated out of it. Health issues got in the way and have now sidelined me for the long haul.

But reading this post started by you shows me how poor you are and how wealthy I am. So thank you.

[BMKal]

Hey thanks heaps captian obvious that piece of advice really helped:D

however have you seen the price of wool:o:wasntme::Rolling:

I might be able to do you a good deal on a couple of cheap alpacas and a spinning wheel .... :angel:

[TheTree]

I also meant to add that the best indicator of future wealth is to have wealthy parents !

[dullbird]

I might be able to do you a good deal on a couple of cheap alpacas and a spinning wheel .... :angel:

don't you have to feed alpacas? arent they like small furry horses but with less of an accessory range:D

[Chucaro]

To keep fair and balanced all pro union talk should stop as well. :p

I agree with you 100% ;)
We have to accept that taken advantage of another people is part of human behavior and is happen at any level or class in society.
There are wealthy business people that have done and doing awesome work and there unions organizers that have put their live or security of their family in the line for a good cause.
It is possible to be wealthy and earned the money in an ethical way and it is possible to be a hard worker, be poor (in money ways) and have and still contribute in a big way to our society.

[Tombie]

Interesting that you think it's all about me being "Rich".. And sticking it to everyone else!

I have an average mortgage, work 50+ hours a week average, and have a low bank balance.

Our property needs renovations and is not a large dwelling but one suited to our needs - no excess at all in that regard.

I am an active supporter of events like: Ride for Cancer etc

To judge my comments in this way is laughable.

My post was to fire up this discussion (worked I'd say) about the continual throw away line "the rich get richer, the poor get poorer".

Having come from a family that worked ****ing hard to make a living, struggled with unemployment with a new baby in tow and to have pushed forward, to achieve a better future against what at the time was almost complete financial ruin.

I have taken opportunity of government training (skills for all), I've pushed the limits of learning by doing as much as I could afford to do, and grasping every opportunity as it presented itself.
(When one didn't present, I went looking)

I'm now supported by quite reasonable qualifications and looking to do more.

I have a loving and supportive wife, 2 fantastic children (both now adults) and a strong solid group of friends.

I am now battling my weight, to further improve myself - a huge struggle for a big bastard like myself. But I'm *driven* to succeed and have goals and milestones in place.

My bank balance is meagre but my life is full of fulfilment.

I have investments in shares - mainly in the company I work for, and will be venturing into property in the new Year. This includes supporting the evil mother in law, providing her with housing for her declining years.

But alas, I'm an evil, rich snob....

[weeds]

you will get over it Tombie......if thats all that annoys you in life all must be good

[wrinklearthur]

I might be able to do you a good deal on a couple of cheap alpacas and a spinning wheel .... :angel:

Private enterprise at it's best! just be mindful of the advertising restraints of this forum though. :p

I am able to supply your labour needs as I have sweatshop experience ( years working for myself ), lots of alpacas going cheap around here as well, left over from get rich quick schemes that failed still owing investors lots of money.

For the new spinning wheel operator's, there is some fantastic in depth training available with wads of certificate's on completion, the bureaucrats dictate that you must do these hideously expensive courses to become proficient at pedalling the treadle, to have these qualifications to satisfy O,H & S requirements before you even step foot inside the sweatshop ( you must or is it just another successful business venture that is earning heaps for it's owners while the bureaucrats are justifying their jobs ? ).
.

[JamesB71]

Tombie, you and Gina would get along just fine Im guessing.

[Tombie]

you will get over it Tombie......if thats all that annoys you in life all must be good

Frustrations in my life are many and varied.

Although I have a few phrases I like:
"If you can't change it... Let it go!"
And
"You can only **** with the cock you've got"
(Bit crass but you get the point)

[incisor]

watch out for the pointy bit on the spinning wheel princess!

cant have you sleeping on the job...


Typically, spinners keep a cork on the spindle tip when the wheel is not in use as the spindle is about 6 or 8 inches long and can be quiet treacherous to bump up against.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/09/1073.jpg

[Tombie]

Tombie, you and Gina would get along just fine Im guessing.

I doubt that..

Fair days pay for a fair days work is also my belief...


But one must ask themselves; why do we lack so much in the way of labour force?
Plenty of jobs out there but lots unskilled enough to do them.

This is where the government and the people need to work together to provide the skills.

[Chucaro]

Private enterprise at it's best! just be mindful of the advertising restraints of this forum though. :p

I am able to supply your labour needs as I have sweatshop experience ( years working for myself ), lots of alpacas going cheap around here as well, left over from get rich quick schemes that failed still owing investors lots of money.

For the new spinning wheel operator's,.....................

Done that Arthur, I used to go to farms, select mohair and wool, take it home, wash, then my wife done the spinning, after that I done the dye, weaving in a 12 shaft loom and finish the capes and ponchos.
Show them in art galleries, put them in consignment in art shops for $400 each. The shop selling them for $800 and pay me 6 months after the sell :mad:
Putting the business on one side they were beautiful times knowing farmers and very interesting people. :)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/09/1071.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/09/1072.jpg

[Chucaro]

I doubt that..

Fair days pay for a fair days work is also my belief...


But one must ask themselves; why do we lack so much in the way of labour force?
Plenty of jobs out there but lots unskilled enough to do them.

This is where the government and the people need to work together to provide the skills.

Tombie, there a lot of people with skills out there that would like to work.
I remember (in my working days) having an interview for a job was easy, just talk with the supervisor or foreman about the job, some times show some papers to back up the qualifications (union bull regulations) and bingo they give you the job and you have the chance to prove yourself.
Now I see the amount of bull that people have to gone trough to even having an interview that it is beyond my comprehension!!
Give the people a fair go regardless age or from were they got their qualifications. In many jobs just 4 week it is enough to know if the person is good or not.
Before the person that was in charge of giving the job was a individual with experience in the job (technical and hands on) now is a graduate in HR for a University :(

[Tombie]

That's awesome looking gear mate.

[BigJon]

Hey thanks heaps captian obvious that piece of advice really helped:D



I know it is obvious, but you would be surprised as to how many people can't see the wood for the trees.

If you actually took it on board it would really help. Household budgeting is very simple economics, unfortunately it is a skill which is almost unknown, or so it seems.
I think that there should be a much higher emphasis placed on financial education at school. Most people learn about money from their parents and most peoples parents have poor money skills.
I realise that is a generalisation, but I think it is one that happens to be true.

[Tombie]

An example here was a bloke.
Had many toys: Boat, Harley, house half paid for.

Had done the hard labour to get where he was.

Sold the lot, Pursued his dream of starting his own business doing industrial coatings and media blasting.

Worked his butt off for 5 years in abstract poverty... But the fruits of his labours have now rewarded him.

His business is successful, he has money in his pocket and a good team of well looked after employees.

They are rewarded well for their work and continue to be happy to work for him.

These are the people who take the chance and make things happen.

He could of lost everything. But gave it a go.

[rb30gtr]

my 2c's

My fiance and I bought into a suburb full of housing commission, as we didn't want to (Couldn't) spend more than 400k on a first house. And being of country/farm origin I couldn't live in a unit.

We both work and make good incomes to pay off a house that everyone else in the street got for free.. The majority don't work.
We have no kids, receive no benefits, and pay high tax and rates.

I leave the house at 6:30 - 7 and arrive home after 7pm, every day, take no sick leave and vary rarely take time off. I work in sales, and have my whole working career, so almost everything I earn is based on my performance. So it has been a couple of tough years, but that said I wouldn't do it if I didn't love it.

Our house is falling apart, and the property takes a huge amount of maintenance, including the giant gum out the front that drops branches on my Landie. (Can't get council approval to cut it down, yet, or build a garage)
The housing commission house's get repairs and most maintenance done for free, and if it isn't they complain black and blue.
Most of the low income housing plots built near by accommodate new immigrants, we know which ones do as they all have brand new cars in the driveway. I have no issue with this, they seem to be nice enough people, and since buying a Bullmastiff nothing else has been stolen from the property.

So I say, Rich and Poor comes down to definition, I personally feel I am rich, have a loving partner and feel very comfortable and happy in everything that I do. My family are supportive, and awesome people to spend time with.

But dwell on the things that don't seem so fair, and sure it would be easy to get caught up and negative, but why do that.

If everyone was 'rich' then no one would be.
If everyone worked and was good at what they did, then no one could progress in their career and become successful.

Life isn't short, it is the longest thing we will ever do!

fyi - Don't get me started on the job situation in this country, I have worked in private Recruitment (IT, Engineering and Finance) for the last 6 years, and have experienced some strange going on's.

:angel:

[dullbird]

I know it is obvious, but you would be surprised as to how many people can't see the wood for the trees.

If you actually took it on board it would really help. Household budgeting is very simple economics, unfortunately it is a skill which is almost unknown, or so it seems.
I think that there should be a much higher emphasis placed on financial education at school. Most people learn about money from their parents and most peoples parents have poor money skills.
I realise that is a generalisation, but I think it is one that happens to be true.

Hahaha mate my original comment to Tombie was very tonge and cheek:D..

I'm quite fine with my household budgeting thanks that why I have horses because I can afford to support that hobby:D If I couldn't I wouldn't...;)

[rb30gtr]

An example here was a bloke.
Had many toys: Boat, Harley, house half paid for.

Had done the hard labour to get where he was.

Sold the lot, Pursued his dream of starting his own business doing industrial coatings and media blasting.

Worked his butt off for 5 years in abstract poverty... But the fruits of his labours have now rewarded him.

His business is successful, he has money in his pocket and a good team of well looked after employees.

They are rewarded well for their work and continue to be happy to work for him.

These are the people who take the chance and make things happen.

He could of lost everything. But gave it a go.


Great story!

Wish I had the guts to make such a decision!

[Tombie]

Hahaha mate my original comment to Tombie was very tonge and cheek:D..

I'm quite fine with my household budgeting thanks that why I have horses because I can afford to support that hobby:D If I couldn't I wouldn't...;)

I know that Lou...

You are life rich for sure.

Had some great travels, and a hobby you love..
I'd say you have it sorted...

Millions in the bank don't make you rich.

To quote a great brand: One life, live it...

[Tombie]

Great story!

Wish I had the guts to make such a decision!

Me too... He has achieved well.

I looked at doing the same but can't make that final jump.

There are a couple of mechanics on this board that I envy their drive, work ethic and enthusiasm for what they do...

They are the true measure of commitment and work ethic.

[rb30gtr]

Tombie, there a lot of people with skills out there that would like to work.
I remember (in my working days) having an interview for a job was easy, just talk with the supervisor or foreman about the job, some times show some papers to back up the qualifications (union bull regulations) and bingo they give you the job and you have the chance to prove yourself.
Now I see the amount of bull that people have to gone trough to even having an interview that it is beyond my comprehension!!
Give the people a fair go regardless age or from were they got their qualifications. In many jobs just 4 week it is enough to know if the person is good or not.
Before the person that was in charge of giving the job was a individual with experience in the job (technical and hands on) now is a graduate in HR for a University :(

Sorry mate, don't agree.

A company struggling to keep its head above water in a competitive market, paying a $12000 recruitment fee to put a professional on for just 4 weeks. In some industries it may work, but in the greater scheme of things it is not a good long lasting business model.

Also choosing personality, culture and team fit is a difficult job, being hands on and technical is important, however what if the personalities clash, they wont learn or pick anything up anyway. And what technically minded hands on person can go out to 1000+ applicants and choose the right personality? And where do they find the time to, advertise, interview, screen, handle all the complaining applicants who are clearly always too experienced for the role, and then follow up with references, background checks, security checks, paperwork etc.
Hence the HR/Recruitment need.

These days you don't get 5 job applicants, you get 600 or 1000 or more. And the reason they have applied, is they ALL think they are suitable, otherwise why did they apply?
And try getting 1000 applicants and not responding to them in some way, social media then becomes their tool for abusing the system that didn't give them the job they were 'perfectly suitable' for.

Also the typical gen Y at 4 weeks is the best new employee you have ever seen, great ideas, excellent motivation and a really good contributor to a positive team working environment. 6 months is the tester, and at 24 months they will leave regardless.

Just to add, I am classified as Gen Y, not by the above, but by my age.

[rb30gtr]

Me too... He has achieved well.

I looked at doing the same but can't make that final jump.

There are a couple of mechanics on this board that I envy their drive, work ethic and enthusiasm for what they do...

They are the true measure of commitment and work ethic.

Couldn't agree more, I have such admiration for people that could make that step and just do it!

[Chucaro]

Sorry mate, don't agree.

A company struggling to keep its head above water in a competitive market, paying a $12000 recruitment fee to put a professional on for just 4 weeks. In some industries it may work, but in the greater scheme of things it is not a good long lasting business model.

Also choosing personality, culture and team fit is a difficult job, being hands on and technical is important, however what if the personalities clash, they wont learn or pick anything up anyway. And what technically minded hands on person can go out to 1000+ applicants and choose the right personality? And where do they find the time to, advertise, interview, screen, handle all the complaining applicants who are clearly always too experienced for the role, and then follow up with references, background checks, security checks, paperwork etc.
Hence the HR/Recruitment need.

These days you don't get 5 job applicants, you get 600 or 1000 or more. And the reason they have applied, is they ALL think they are suitable, otherwise why did they apply?
And try getting 1000 applicants and not responding to them in some way, social media then becomes their tool for abusing the system that didn't give them the job they were 'perfectly suitable' for.

Also the typical gen Y at 4 weeks is the best new employee you have ever seen, great ideas, excellent motivation and a really good contributor to a positive team working environment. 6 months is the tester, and at 24 months they will leave regardless.

Just to add, I am classified as Gen Y, not by the above, but by my age.

Mate, we have to agree to disagree :). I am 67 and worked in the maintenance engineering side for 50 years including as service manager supervising more than 20 fitters plus trade assistants. I never in my life whent trough all the bull that is going on now and never have problems with the selected people after 4 weeks period.
I cannot see why in the trade things have to change in a so radical manner. Perhaps in other professions it is different but not in the building or engineering industry at tradesman level.

[rb30gtr]

Mate, we have to agree to disagree :). I am 67 and worked in the maintenance engineering side for 50 years including as service manager supervising more than 20 fitters plus trade assistants. I never in my life whent trough all the bull that is going on now and never have problems with the selected people after 4 weeks period.
I cannot see why in the trade things have to change in a so radical manner. Perhaps in other professions it is different but not in the building or engineering industry at tradesman level.

Actually I do agree with you, the trades/building sector is very different to IT and Finance.
An older (apologies for the term) 'bloke' with great hands, positive view, reputation in the field and a can do attitude is always the best for the role.

Try interviewing Uni students that graduate in Finance with no practical experience, none what so ever, not even a job in Maccas or a Retail store! That sit demanding 100K positions, laughable! But they paid 50-100 grand to go to Uni so they could be spoon fed that information. "You do your masters in finance and you will walk straight into a 100k+ role."

[Chucaro]

Actually I do agree with you, the trades/building sector is very different to IT and Finance.
An older (apologies for the term) 'bloke' with great hands, positive view, reputation in the field and a can do attitude is always the best for the role.

Try interviewing Uni students that graduate in Finance with no practical experience, none what so ever, not even a job in Maccas or a Retail store! That sit demanding 100K positions, laughable! But they paid 50-100 grand to go to Uni so they could be spoon fed that information. "You do your masters in finance and you will walk straight into a 100k+ role."

On that cases we agree 100% just because are graduated form the Uni it does not mean that have the experience to be productive at work.
I have a son that is on IT without Uni degree but with MS certificates in Share Point and servers plus experience in programing in C.
At 44 years of age he now have to compete with just graduated students to find a job in Melbourne without much success :(

[rb30gtr]

On that cases we agree 100% just because are graduated form the Uni it does not mean that have the experience to be productive at work.
I have a son that is on IT without Uni degree but with MS certificates in Share Point and servers plus experience in programing in C.
At 44 years of age he now have to compete with just graduated students to find a job in Melbourne without much success :(

Is he currently looking for work? Drop me an inbox message if so.

[sheerluck]

On that cases we agree 100% just because are graduated form the Uni it does not mean that have the experience to be productive at work........:(

I was told a great story by the store manager of a supermarket I was doing some summer work in. He told me about a group of graduate trainee managers that were being trained in the local stores, getting experience. One of them was handed a broom, and instructed to sweep up and down the aisles. He apparently pulled a very indignant face, stuck out his bottom lip, and said "but, but I'm a graduate trainee!".
The wily old manager who was talking to me replied "oh, no. That means I have to teach you how to sweep too?"

[Homestar]

?.. but look at some unskilled work eg our Haul Pack drivers that earn over $120k pa .

Those people should beware... Rio Tinto now have 20 unmanned trucks out there, with many more on order. All 20 trucks are controlled from an air conditioned office in Perth.

It's all in the interests on health and safety say Rio...

Me personally? I'm doing fine, but life isn't simple any more. I sometimes think I should sell up everything and move into a cheap rental.

Happiness isn't all about money. The best years I had was when the kids were young, we lived in the country earning 2/10's of **** all, in a run down house.

Now have 2 properties, both of us working full time and a decent disposable income, but I'm not as happy as I used to be...

[Davo]

What a load of rot. Why, I was born in a soap crate, since Mum couldn’t leave work at the time, (she carved those little babies in the Velvet soap bars), and started my own business at three months old when I found a 20-cent piece while I was crawling on the factory floor after changing my own nappy. From there, I worked my way through school by teaching all the classes I was in and giving myself good marks for completing all the homework I’d given myself. Then, through sheer hard work and with no help from luck or other people, I was able to scrape together enough money by not eating for three years to start another business that required me to work hard every day of the week for several decades.

So there you go, living proof that as long as everything goes your way and you don’t have any difficulties involving health, families, accidents, nasty people, economic problems or otherwise you’ll make it in the end.

Promotional DVD out soon!

[VladTepes]

My story is similar but compared to me you are rich !

You might have had to work every dayof teh week but I had to invent a whole other day just toget enough work done ! An eight day working week !




Seriously though... wealth is purely relative. (and I wish I had some horribly wealthy sick elderly relatives!) :lol2:

[EchiDna]

What a load of rot. Why, I was born in a soap crate, since Mum couldn’t leave work at the time, (she carved those little babies in the Velvet soap bars), and started my own business at three months old when I found a 20-cent piece while I was crawling on the factory floor after changing my own nappy. From there, I worked my way through school by teaching all the classes I was in and giving myself good marks for completing all the homework I’d given myself. Then, through sheer hard work and with no help from luck or other people, I was able to scrape together enough money by not eating for three years to start another business that required me to work hard every day of the week for several decades.

So there you go, living proof that as long as everything goes your way and you don’t have any difficulties involving health, families, accidents, nasty people, economic problems or otherwise you’ll make it in the end.

Promotional DVD out soon!


you got a crate? you had it easy....

me, I had to get up 10 minutes before I went to bed to go to work before school and then when I got home from school......

[Homestar]

you got a crate? you had it easy....

me, I had to get up 10 minutes before I went to bed to go to work before school and then when I got home from school......

Luxury... :D

[dullbird]

you got a crate? you had it easy....

me, I had to get up 10 minutes before I went to bed to go to work
before school and then when I got home from school......


you went to school:o...lucky bugger!

I had to educate myself through interpretive dance...made my interview process memorable.:D

[mick88]

Only yesterday my 90 year old uncle who grew up in Euroa, (Victoria) told me that at age 9-10 he would be up at 5 am and take his ferret box and nets up on the neighbouring hillside and sit there waiting for the sun to rise enough for him to what he doing. He would catch three to four pair of rabbits (that's all he could carry with his other gear) skin and gut them, put the skins out for drying and then sell the rabbits on his way to school. He had regular buyers for them.
He is by no means a squillionaire today, but he is very happy, reasonably fit and healthy for his age, still drives, and most all lives independently!


Cheers, Mick.

[Tombie]

A soap crate?! Luxury.. :D

[sheerluck]

you went to school:o...lucky bugger!

I had to educate myself through interpretive dance...made my interview process memorable.:D

You worked for Currys did you?

BBC News - Currys' previous dance interview in Cardiff revealed (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-24020411)

[dullbird]

Yep in HR and recruitment for a little while :D

[CraigE]

Those people should beware... Rio Tinto now have 20 unmanned trucks out there, with many more on order. All 20 trucks are controlled from an air conditioned office in Perth.

It's all in the interests on health and safety say Rio...

Me personally? I'm doing fine, but life isn't simple any more. I sometimes think I should sell up everything and move into a cheap rental.

Happiness isn't all about money. The best years I had was when the kids were young, we lived in the country earning 2/10's of **** all, in a run down house.

Now have 2 properties, both of us working full time and a decent disposable income, but I'm not as happy as I used to be...

Yep we at BHP have some at Jimblebar as well, but will be about another 10 years before they look at changing over completely.

[frantic]

The union support team has arrived I see.

The employer bashing started first .... "Every hour of every day there was an employer ripping off workers, ripping off the tax department or ripping off other employers."

There was acknowledgement of that there were "some cases of workers ripping off employers" but apparently union officials ripping of union members never happens. It is only ever the big bad boss.

Obviously balance in debate is still not allowed under Team Puce rules :D

However, I am happy to vacate the debate as I have important things to do like selling a Landie to buy another one and trying to further improve the sealed air duct system for Defender drivers :D
It's been proven and will be again that union reps have either miss used the members funds or taken playoffs to smooth relations or agreements(but who is doing the paying;))
The difference is I've never heard of a union rep intentionally putting a members life at risk unlike certain employers( James hardie anyone) or doing stuff like this:
Coal carrier mutiny | Illawarra Mercury (http://www.illawarramercury.com.au/story/1759336/coal-carrier-mutiny/)

[LandyAndy]

don't you have to feed alpacas? arent they like small furry horses but with less of an accessory range:D
There are heaps more neck chops on an alpacca;););););)
Andrew

[Offender90]

If I have to read such drivel again I think I'm going to ****ing scream!

The rich get richer by being smart with their money.
The poor get poorer by doing **** all to
Improve their position and making bad decisions.

People need to control their Credit / debt.
Continually bitching about poor getting poorer isn't the answer.

(This of course is open to modification for people who have ended in a bad position due to illness etc...)

But for those able bodies out there complaining - how about less messing around, work smart, invest (don't need a lot to get started) etc and you to will become "richer".

I've worked bloody hard to get where I am.
My wife even more so...

So those wanting a bigger slice of the pie-
Get off your arses and do something about it instead of union bull**** phrases..

Unions get richer too, a lot richer...
And don't give a flying **** about the people who pay their dues..
Anyone deluded enough to think they do is living in the 50's :-/

Arrrrgggghhhh...

How about if I'm well off and still want to bitch about the poor getting poorer?

I've studied reasonably hard, got a reasonably well paying job and have invested reasonably smartly. I have perhaps more than I need and think that I (and others like me) should be taxed more to give those born in less fortunate circumstances the opportunity to better themselves (the same opportunity I've had when I was growing up).

As others have said, it's all about what type of a society you want to live in. Personally, I don't like the idea of gated communities, or having to send my kids to private schools. That's why I try to do all I can to support a greater middle class. And that includes accepting that I should pay more tax.

Not so it can be handed out in welfare to second or third generation unemployed mind you, but to give their kids the education and ability to create a better life for themselves. The wealthy benefit from an (IMHO unfair) tax system, which often encourages parasitic investment of capital. Negative gearing is my personal pet hate, but there are plenty of others (salary sacrificing, GST, tax deductions for (questinable) "business" expenses and so on).

At the end of the day, we're all interconnected. If 10 people have to struggle on minimum wage so I can make more money that I don't need, it will adversely affect my quality of life in the long run. It will mean ten less people that use the goods or services I produce, might mean two or three more people that are looking to rob/scam or otherwise cheat me, etc etc...

... long story short, if you've made something for yourself I think that's great for you, especially if you didn't start with much. Sounds like you were able to utilise some government provided services to get there, and that's great also. Unfortunately, there are fewer opportunities for people from lower socio-economic backgrounds to make something of themselves today then there were 10 years ago, and fewer still than there were 30 years ago. And that's in large part because our taxation policies are skewed to help the wealthy get wealthier, thus leaving a smaller slice of the pie to be fought over by a greater number of people.

And in my humble opinion, that's not fair!

[LandyAndy]

I now consider our family to be comfortable.Its been bloody hard work.12 years ago I had a significant back injury working on a farm.Lowley paid work,$12.00 per hour plus a farmhouse to live in wow.
We bought a cheap house as we had to get off the farm,best thing that could have happened.
I was told I would never be able to do farm work or operate machinery again:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
I got a casual job with the Shire doing traffic control.Went on to drive the roller,then a 6 wheeler,then a semi trailer.I played in a grader one day,those who saw me in it thought I had been driving them before,never had even sat in one.I got given the maintence grader,and very soon after the construction grader.Im also leading hand and fill in for the Works Supervisor when he is away.
Its all down to hard work.
We dont have heaps in the bank,but always can find some spare coins for toys from time to time.
My back,its stuffed.Im in constant pain,dont even take painkillers anymore unless its critical,they dont work after a week or so.Will be happy if I get another 5 to 10 years out of it,after then who knows???
Andrew

[Basil135]

So, I just got home from my day job. Been crutching Alpaca's this afternoon. I dont mind it, cause at least the kids get new bedding tonight.

This morning, after helping the local milkman do his rounds, I rolled & delivered 900 newspapers, on the way to the bakery to do my shift there. So after breaking in 3 brumbies, I ran the 18 miles to my day job as a nitro glycerine quality control technician. The career advancement possibilities are limited, but I do tend to get a bang out of it...

Anyway, the boss has just given up the smokes, and his hands are a bit shaky, so we took an early minute, which gave me time to go coach the local footy team. Go the mighty Bombers....

So, after cricket practice, I dropped in at the local newspaper, where I am the reporter & editor, for a couple of quick meetings.

Anyway, must go.... have to change those red lights at the top of the power poles. There are a couple of loose ones that keep blinking....




:D

[dullbird]

So, I just got home from my day job. Been crutching Alpaca's this afternoon. I dont mind it, cause at least the kids get new bedding tonight.This morning, after helping the local milkman do his rounds, I rolled & delivered 900 newspapers, on the way to the bakery to do my shift there. So after breaking in 3 brumbies, I ran the 18 miles to my day job as a nitro glycerine quality control technician. The career advancement possibilities are limited, but I do tend to get a bang out of it...

Anyway, the boss has just given up the smokes, and his hands are a bit shaky, so we took an early minute, which gave me time to go coach the local footy team. Go the mighty Bombers....

So, after cricket practice, I dropped in at the local newspaper, where I am the reporter & editor, for a couple of quick meetings.

Anyway, must go.... have to change those red lights at the top of the power poles. There are a couple of loose ones that keep blinking....




:D

Just out of curiosity they didn't happen to be BMKal's Alpacas over in WA?

he is trying to sell me some to help me get rich

[Basil135]

Just out of curiosity they didn't happen to be BMKal's Alpacas over in WA?

he is trying to sell me some to help me get rich

Thats them...

Just watch out for number 649. Really bad breath.. ;)

[Tombie]

Love your work.

[dullbird]

Thats them...


Just watch out for number 649. Really bad breath.. ;)


Ok thanks for that, just quickly though is that the neighbours to the left or the right??

[CraigE]

How about if I'm well off and still want to bitch about the poor getting poorer?

I've studied reasonably hard, got a reasonably well paying job and have invested reasonably smartly. I have perhaps more than I need and think that I (and others like me) should be taxed more to give those born in less fortunate circumstances the opportunity to better themselves (the same opportunity I've had when I was growing up).

As others have said, it's all about what type of a society you want to live in. Personally, I don't like the idea of gated communities, or having to send my kids to private schools. That's why I try to do all I can to support a greater middle class. And that includes accepting that I should pay more tax.

Not so it can be handed out in welfare to second or third generation unemployed mind you, but to give their kids the education and ability to create a better life for themselves. The wealthy benefit from an (IMHO unfair) tax system, which often encourages parasitic investment of capital. Negative gearing is my personal pet hate, but there are plenty of others (salary sacrificing, GST, tax deductions for (questinable) "business" expenses and so on).

At the end of the day, we're all interconnected. If 10 people have to struggle on minimum wage so I can make more money that I don't need, it will adversely affect my quality of life in the long run. It will mean ten less people that use the goods or services I produce, might mean two or three more people that are looking to rob/scam or otherwise cheat me, etc etc...

... long story short, if you've made something for yourself I think that's great for you, especially if you didn't start with much. Sounds like you were able to utilise some government provided services to get there, and that's great also. Unfortunately, there are fewer opportunities for people from lower socio-economic backgrounds to make something of themselves today then there were 10 years ago, and fewer still than there were 30 years ago. And that's in large part because our taxation policies are skewed to help the wealthy get wealthier, thus leaving a smaller slice of the pie to be fought over by a greater number of people.

And in my humble opinion, that's not fair!

I sort of agree. I am not sure that higher income earners should be taxed more though as $100k really is not rich. Maybe the extremely wealthy should pay a bit more and companies and individuals that rort the system and pay minimal tax should be targeted. There are a lot of mega rich that pay no tax and use the excuse that they generate it through their employees etc, well that is no excuse not to pay personal tax on income generated same as everyone else.
My personal thoughts are redistribution of wealth etc should be looked at and and any assistance should only be given to people prepared to work or in a genuine position where they cannot work. People who dont want to work should only get minimal assistance.
There may be alternatives that could work such as free public transport etc.
What irks me most is the lack of assistance a low income earner will get if made redundant. Not trying to start a refugee argument, but how does someone come in from OS under the refugee program and get handed around $60k to set up and priority housing as well as assistance to find work over and above hwat everyone else gets. Before everyone starts jumping up and down, this is fact. I have spoken to many who have admitted this, some have been smart and bought a house but most seem to spend a big chunk of this on new cars. Most Australians will never buy a new car. We should be helping our own first.
I do not know how people genuinely survive on sub $50k pa and have a decent life.
Again not supporting bludgers but genuine people that through no fault have no education or ability to earn decent money.

[Chucaro]

I agree with some of the points in the previous post but let me say that we have the system and laws that the people want and this has been proved in elections after elections. :(
So, as minority, we have to accept what the majority want.
Regarding taxes I remember this:

I am not evading tax in any way, shape or form. Of course, I am minimising my tax. Anybody in this country who does not minimise his tax wants his head read. I can tell you as a government that you are not spending it so well that we should be donating extra.
Kerry Packer

[BigJon]

I am not evading tax in any way, shape or form. Of course, I am minimising my tax. Anybody in this country who does not minimise his tax wants his head read. I can tell you as a government that you are not spending it so well that we should be donating extra.
Kerry Packer


That man spoke the truth.

[d2dave]

I was a high school drop out, failed third form (year nine). I hated school.

My second job as a 15 year old in 1970 was in a petrol station pumping gas. Take home pay $18.85. I was never any good with money and used to live from week to week on my pay, no savings, often borrowing a couple of dollars the day before payday.

Every available opportunity between serving petrol I went into the workshop to see if I could help. I had a love of cars. From there I learnt enough to get jobs as a lub attendant. This was basically an unqualified spanner that used to do grease and oil changes.

From this I learnt enough to confidently apply for mechanics jobs. From here I went on and became qualified.

I still live from week to week on my pay. When I met SWMBO at age 28 we both had nothing. (She is six years younger than me)A year together we then both committed $100 per week(nearly 50% of pay) each from our pay. In twelve months with 10K we purchased our house. 10K was not enough deposit on a $65,000 house so we had two loans, one at 12.5 % and one at 17%!

At the same time be got married. We then put tenants in our house and lived in a caravan at my parents place for three years. SWMBO worked two jobs, I did a few car repairs at home and we paid off our mortgage in three years. This was not easy but I look at it as three years of pain for long term gain.

I am far from rich but we are very comfortable. If you have bothered to read my story you will see that I went from an uneducated nothing to an uneducated something from a lot of bloody hard work.

We did this too without any government hand outs. There was $1,000 available for first home buyers, but as we were renting our place we could not risk it. Also back then if the bank found out they would have increased our interest rate by 1%

[WhiteD3]

One hundred posts to this thread and the Mods haven't seen the need to delete it yet. Well done guys!

My 2 cents worth. I am well off according to the stats; have a nice house, drive a (leased) D4, etc. What I've got I got through persistence and work; not smarts or opportunity but I've made so many blunders in the journey to this point it makes me cringe just thinking about it!

I got into senior management and decent $$ after years and years of unpaid OT, nights spent at home doing the work I didn't have time to do during the day and working away for weeks at a time.

I don't begrudge paying what I think is a lot of tax to support in part, those less fortunate than me. I do begrudge supporting the lazy, ignorant and selfish.

IMHO a lot of the handouts and support payments (class welfare) are not helping people, rather they are taking away their motivation or reasons to get ahead.

[Landy Smurf]

I am not saying this is a right or wrong thing more just curious what older people then I think about it.
Has it been worth it to spend lots of time while younger(could be 15 , could be 50) working ie overtime, away from home for weeks or just days at a time?
if you had your time again knowing what you know now would you do it the same or different?

[BBC]

Poverty and wealth....it is always relative.

What was your start point?

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/09/1009.jpg (http://s926.photobucket.com/user/jr230898/media/Somalia/DSCN3014.jpg.html)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/09/1010.jpg (http://s926.photobucket.com/user/jr230898/media/Somalia/DSCN3016.jpg.html)


How did you end up?

BUT...the most important thing...did you enjoy yourself?

[WhiteD3]

I am not saying this is a right or wrong thing more just curious what older people then I think about it.
Has it been worth it to spend lots of time while younger(could be 15 , could be 50) working ie overtime, away from home for weeks or just days at a time?
if you had your time again knowing what you know now would you do it the same or different?

Worth it? It depends on what you're after. I'm 51 and started out as an apprentice sparkie at 16. At any particular point in time it is hard see the payback for the extra effort but over the long term I think yes. I can remember many times (SWMBO remembers better :( ) coming home after 3 days or 2 weeks away to be handed two toddlers, hear the bedroom door slam shut followed by howls of distress, followed shortly after by snoring.

She'd surface midday next day recharged and happy to see me.

We were prepared to put up with this and other dramas because our goals were always bigger than our current pockets.

I know people who are happy with a lot less and those who are unhappy with a lot more. Each to their own. You'll only know if you were right when its too late :)

[Davo]

I am not saying this is a right or wrong thing more just curious what older people then I think about it.
Has it been worth it to spend lots of time while younger(could be 15 , could be 50) working ie overtime, away from home for weeks or just days at a time?
if you had your time again knowing what you know now would you do it the same or different?

Nobody looks back and wishes they'd done more work, they just wish they'd had more time with their loved ones. In our culture, we tend to assume we'll live until old age, but then when you lose someone important you have to realise that you could die at any time, just like that. And when it's all over, it's all over.

[Tombie]

Nobody looks back and wishes they'd done more work, they just wish they'd had more time with their loved ones. In our culture, we tend to assume we'll live until old age, but then when you lose someone important you have to realise that you could die at any time, just like that. And when it's all over, it's all over.

That's very true as well.

Put in the time, but make sure you balance time with the family as well...

[Landy Smurf]

All in all it really comes down to peoples values I guess

[frantic]

Just out of curiosity they didn't happen to be BMKal's Alpacas over in WA?

he is trying to sell me some to help me get rich

My oldest daughter wants to raise alpacas, maybe we could organise a group buy:D I'll just have to find some land as a suburban block won't be big enough, and the manure running into the neighbours pool could strain an already tense relationship a bit.

[d2dave]

Some of us believe we should pay taxes for the common good. We don't look for every little loophole to avoid it.


I am sure you must some times you purchase a product or service and try to get the best deal. Legally minimizing you tax is the same thing.

I do my best to legally minimize my tax, and I still pay a poo load.

As Kerry Packer once said
"Anyone who pays more tax than they can get away with needs their head examined."

[justinc]

Taxation is a very necessary part of life. BUT, when the government mis spend and do stupid things with money that we have earnt and entrusted to them to help in OUR quality of life and provide services etc then I get a little annoyed...:mad:

We (Wife and I)do seem to be paying an inordinate amount of tax, but as a small business partnership we have reduced it as much as possible. There ARE ways to reduce it further I have been told, but I am not interested in pushing the edges of the moral boundary. We earn, we pay tax.

I am VERY dirty about those sitting around and wasting their life and our taxation dollars going towards handouts, and to add a little to what CraigE said I would sooner help those who want to help themselves and get somewhere in this country by hard work and contribution, than those who are repeat welfare recipients who are generations into the handout cycle.

Whether you are a Refugee or a 'local', if you aren't willing to give it a go then you should take a long hard look at yourself, and realise why this is 'the lucky country', filled with generous people willing to help IF you are willing to contribute meaningfully.

JC

[justinc]

This is NOT a religious stance, it is merely to point out that people from even this long ago had problems with freeloading and shirkers, and tax was a big thing in Roman times...

2 Thessalonians 3
The Message (MSG)
Those Who Are Lazy

3 1-3 One more thing, friends: Pray for us. Pray that the Master’s Word will simply take off and race through the country to a groundswell of response, just as it did among you. And pray that we’ll be rescued from these scoundrels who are trying to do us in. I’m finding that not all “believers” are believers. But the Master never lets us down. He’ll stick by you and protect you from evil.

4-5 Because of the Master, we have great confidence in you. We know you’re doing everything we told you and will continue doing it. May the Master take you by the hand and lead you along the path of God’s love and Christ’s endurance.

6-9 Our orders—backed up by the Master, Jesus—are to refuse to have anything to do with those among you who are lazy and refuse to work the way we taught you. Don’t permit them to freeload on the rest. We showed you how to pull your weight when we were with you, so get on with it. We didn’t sit around on our hands expecting others to take care of us. In fact, we worked our fingers to the bone, up half the night moonlighting so you wouldn’t be burdened with taking care of us. And it wasn’t because we didn’t have a right to your support; we did. We simply wanted to provide an example of diligence, hoping it would prove contagious.

10-13 Don’t you remember the rule we had when we lived with you? “If you don’t work, you don’t eat.” And now we’re getting reports that a bunch of lazy good-for-nothings are taking advantage of you. This must not be tolerated. We command them to get to work immediately—no excuses, no arguments—and earn their own keep. Friends, don’t slack off in doing your duty.

14-15 If anyone refuses to obey our clear command written in this letter, don’t let him get by with it. Point out such a person and refuse to subsidize his freeloading. Maybe then he’ll think twice. But don’t treat him as an enemy. Sit him down and talk about the problem as someone who cares.

16 May the Master of Peace himself give you the gift of getting along with each other at all times, in all ways. May the Master be truly among you!

17 I, Paul, bid you good-bye in my own handwriting. I do this in all my letters, so examine my signature as proof that the letter is genuine.

18 The incredible grace of our Master, Jesus Christ, be with all of you!

So even long ago there was the same arguments, about the same problems in society. Those who work hard to support those who don't or won't:(.

there is some good advice there in 6-9, 10-13, 14-15 :)

JC

[UncleHo]

They were interesting words spoken by the late Mr.Packer,shortly after that statement it was revealed that his previous year's tax payment amounted to 8c-----------now that was what I call "creative accounting"



But I have made do with what we have since I(we) was put on an invalid(supporting)pension in 1982,to keep myself occupied I took up school bus driving,the pay rate was inside the maximum allowed while on the pension,live in a private long term rental,and bought outright my ageing Landrovers

[BigJon]

They were interesting words spoken by the late Mr.Packer,shortly after that statement it was revealed that his previous year's tax payment amounted to 8c-----------now that was what I call "creative accounting"


And If I recall, all totally legal.

[Eevo]

i do agree that the "The rich get richer.... Poor get..." line is an excuse

however compared to the last 20-50 years, getting a first house in a lot lot harder. back in the day the average wage to average house price was 3:1
now its closer to 8:1 with a combine wage!

im not saying its impossible, its out of reach for many of the younger generation.
i have an above average wage and i wont be buying a house by myself as its unaffordable.

[Ferret]

however compared to the last 20-50 years, getting a first house in a lot lot harder. back in the day the average wage to average house price was 3:1 now its closer to 8:1 with a combine wage!

im not saying its impossible, its out of reach for many of the younger generation.

20 - 25 years ago you had interest rates of ~15% or more. Young people then still managed it. We (wife + me) were one of them.

Interest rates today are very low even if house prices compared to wage earnings are higher, so the situation is maybe not much different.

[Chucaro]

i do agree that the "The rich get richer.... Poor get..." line is an excuse

however compared to the last 20-50 years, getting a first house in a lot lot harder. back in the day the average wage to average house price was 3:1
now its closer to 8:1 with a combine wage!

im not saying its impossible, its out of reach for many of the younger generation.
i have an above average wage and i wont be buying a house by myself as its unaffordable.

My first wages in Oz was $43 per week and we paid $23 a week rent.
It was nice to have a full shopping trolley for $6.00 :)
Back then a two bedroom unit in Hillsdale cost $9000.
Now it will be impossible for a fitter to start from $0 and purchase the first home in East Sydney :(

[Eevo]

20 - 25 years ago you had interest rates of ~15% or more. Young people then still managed it. We (wife + me) were one of them.

Interest rates today are very low even if house prices compared to wage earnings are higher, so the situation is maybe not much different.

over the life of a homeloan, 15% for 5 years is quite minimal.

and it doesnt change the price of the house.

15% interest rate lets say increases the repayments costs by a factor of 2 (compared to the average wage and 7.5% rates).

today, the repayments have increased by a factor of 4 (compared to the average wage and interest rates are lower!!

give me house prices of 20-25 years ago and i'll gladly accept 15%, no, 20% rates.

[Offender90]

I agree Justin,

Although my posts may not show it, I also have a big problem with the third generation unemployed collecting benefits while the rest of us pay for it... or some that are "employed" in the government sector are able to do no work and be untouchable at the same time.

I do however see the third generation unemployed collecting the dole as a failure of policy rather than "they're too lazy to do anything about it". The existing welfare system is partly to blame - it encourages some people (or rather most people in certain situations) to do nothing and just collect benefits. It's a trap you can get caught in from a young age and never get out of - I've seen too many school friends go down that road.

Lack of opportunity / role models is another, and I don't think that the "we'll only help those who help themselves" attitude espoused by the right is the answer either. Truth is. neither side of politics is willing to do anything about it. Those that have tried got hammered by the likes of Rupert, Gina & Co.

Isuzurover started a good Soapbox thread about "what you'd do if you were in government"... where I posted in detail everything I thought was wrong and what I thought ought to be done about it, but can't seem to find it now.

[Chucaro]

.................................................. ...............
But I have made do with what we have since I(we) was put on an invalid(supporting)pension in 1982,to keep myself occupied I took up school bus driving,the pay rate was inside the maximum allowed while on the pension,live in a private long term rental,and bought outright my ageing Landrovers

How you managed to do that :eek:
I guess that you was not under prescribed pain killers and also do not disclosed your condition.
When I done my back the prescribed pain killers rendered me invalid, and the chances to get a job were zero, nil!!
The only hope to get a job was to risking breaking the law and do not tell the true. The work safety act was very strict.
Companies do not want to know me because the insurance premium even if the CRU was prepared to pay half of my wages for 6 months with no obligation to employ me after that time.
Then I went to Uni for university degree revaliation. It was no good even if management in big agricultural machinery companies want to employ me the HR put a stop to that.
I was under sponsorship by a Commonwealth rehabilitation department and they never done anything regarding discrimination.
At the end after my pain was managed I started my own business which I have to stop because after 2 years the pain come back with force.
No all the unemployed people are in that situation because they like it, the over regulated system does not give many the chance to get a job.
I would like to know how many members here that have a business are prepared to employ a person with a spinal condition which have pain and is under prescribed medicine.
How many are prepared to pay extra insurance premium (if they can get it) and or risk large fines by the government authorities to give a job a person were he/she can aggravate his/her condition.
Sorry about my rant, I will have a valerian tea :D

[d2dave]

give me house prices of 20-25 years ago and i'll gladly accept 15%, no, 20% rates.

You will also have to go back to a wage of take home $300 per week. This is what my wage was when I purchased my first home, 27 years ago.

I also had to move about 20 km further from work as I could not afford a house where I would have liked. It was also a modest house of about 12 squares. Our TV was a 34 CM portable. Nothing flash but we loved it.

I know the price of land is a big part of the cost, but now days every one wants a Mc mansion with a huge plasma and flash car, and they want it now

[Eevo]

You will also have to go back to a wage of take home $300 per week. This is what my wage was when I purchased my first home, 27 years ago.


yeah, $300 a week (15k p.a is about right.
house would've cost about 45k (remebr that house to wage ratio)

compare that to today where the average house is 450k? and average wage is 70k?

that ratio has doubled.

[UncleHo]

G'day Arthur :)

Was working for my landlord who owned school buses,200 days of the school year, X$ per hour,3 hrs a day,and it came under the allowed amount one could earn and retain one's pension,BUT, in those years the dollars earned was calculated over 365 days not over 14 days as is currently done,I have knocked back a lot of work possibilities because of that reason,I still retain my Bus License and my Authority to drive as well as my "Blue Card" but I was driving long before the "Blue Card" came into existence, I had to undergo a full Police investigation, I presume that the BC is in existence in all states.

My back did not give me to much grief then,it was my left knee that was kinda customised,I gave up driving at the end of 99 (the kids became too feral), had a heart attack in Feb 2000 and Quad by-pass in 2001,eventuallygot my leg/knee straightened in 11 and am now reasonably pain free for the first time in nearly 40 years,but, there are a lot of people much worse that I.

I have one moto now,each morning I wake up I think I am winning,got to be positive,it is the morning that I don't wake up that will be the B**mer!

[d2dave]

yeah, $300 a week (15k p.a is about right.
house would've cost about 45k (remebr that house to wage ratio)

compare that to today where the average house is 450k? and average wage is 70k?

that ratio has doubled.

House cost $65,000. On the above figures my house cost 4.3 years pay and it is now 6.4 years. That's roughly a third more, but I had two loans, one at 13.5% and one at 17%

[Basil135]

Some time ago, I heard a theory that all taxation rates should be reduced to a flat rate of around 10%.

The thinking is, that with more disposable income both individuals & companies would be willing to spend more, thus generating MORE tax in the long run.

However, where it falls down is in a number of areas. Firstly, people have to spend the extra money they have, and not hoard it by putting it all into the bank, or worse, under the mattress.

On top of this, when the money is spent, it needs to be spent locally. As we know, and have often discussed on here, it is too easy, and often too cheap, to buy from overseas.

As for companies, there are so many that are foreign owned, that making them richer often means that the only people that benefit, are those overseas.

So, like most things, all good on the surface, but when you dig deep, thats when it starts to fall apart.

[BMKal]

Some time ago, I heard a theory that all taxation rates should be reduced to a flat rate of around 10%.

The thinking is, that with more disposable income both individuals & companies would be willing to spend more, thus generating MORE tax in the long run.

However, where it falls down is in a number of areas. Firstly, people have to spend the extra money they have, and not hoard it by putting it all into the bank, or worse, under the mattress.

On top of this, when the money is spent, it needs to be spent locally. As we know, and have often discussed on here, it is too easy, and often too cheap, to buy from overseas.

As for companies, there are so many that are foreign owned, that making them richer often means that the only people that benefit, are those overseas.

So, like most things, all good on the surface, but when you dig deep, thats when it starts to fall apart.

This idea was proposed years ago by Joe Bjelke Petersen (amongst others). Basic concept was a flat 15% tax on all earnings - personal income and company tax alike. Government revenue would be raised by tax on spending (a GST if you like). Basics of life (food, clothing etc) would be taxed at a lower rate, if at all - more "luxurious" purchases would attract a higher tax rate. The premise was that it would encourage saving - and there would be Australian saved money available for investment, rather than all new projects and infrastructure requiring foreign capital.

It had a lot of merit .................. but there were also some drawbacks.

[Eevo]

House cost $65,000. On the above figures my house cost 4.3 years pay and it is now 6.4 years. That's roughly a third more, but I had two loans, one at 13.5% and one at 17%

i would say you paid above the average back then. not by much

and my point still stands. a third more is still significant.
imagine if taxes increased by a third, or food, petrol, etc.

[Ferret]

yeah, $300 a week (15k p.a is about right.
house would've cost about 45k (remebr that house to wage ratio)

compare that to today where the average house is 450k? and average wage is 70k?

that ratio has doubled.

$45k. Ya dreaming. In 1987 mine was $78k plus land ~$18k and that was about ~30k from town and about ~5k from a RAAF base / air port. Hardly prime territory.

[Eevo]

Some time ago, I heard a theory that all taxation rates should be reduced to a flat rate of around 10%.


im in favor of this idea.

drop income tax to 20% (i think 10% is too low)
increase the gst to 15%

its more of a user pays system and it encourages buying. its a 2 for 1 deal.

[Eevo]

$45k. Ya dreaming. In 1987 mine was $78k plus land ~$18k and that was about ~30k from town and about ~5k from a RAAF base / air port. Hardly prime territory.

my parents got their place for 45k in 1981/1982. 10km from town near the beach.

maybe its the difference between adelaide and perth.

[Ferret]

Was living in Newcastle at the time and yes, there is and was large differences in housing prices across the country.

[LandyAndy]

Our place was $41000 in 2005.Not the Ritz by any means,but it aint a dump either.
Andrew

[Tombie]

Mum and Dads first house cost $9800.00 in a new development.

3 br, dbl brick... 1/4 acre block.
20 minutes from Adelaide CBD

This was 1971 :)

My first car cost more than the house!

[Tombie]

Let's face it... Property values are completely out of control, and not realistic.

[Eevo]

Mum and Dads first house cost $9800.00 in a new development.

3 br, dbl brick... 1/4 acre block.
20 minutes from Adelaide CBD

This was 1971 :)

My first car cost more than the house!

yeah, my grandmothers place was 4k. not sure what year though.

[Chucaro]

Mum and Dads first house cost $9800.00 in a new development.

3 br, dbl brick... 1/4 acre block.
20 minutes from Adelaide CBD

This was 1971 :)

My first car cost more than the house!

At the end of 1970 I remember that a Ford Falcon 500 XW cost $3500.00, so more than 1/3 of the cost of your parents house.

[Eevo]

Let's face it... Property values are completely out of control, and not realistic.

too many "investment" properties.

need to do what singapore has done.

first house, no stamp duty
second house (aka investment property), 50% stamp duty

basically makes it very easy to get a house (as it should be)
makes it very expensive to buy a second house..

[superquag]

In 1980 we paid $32,000 for our 3x1 house. Petrol was about 37 cents/litre and I'd sold my 'new' Holden HX/Z a year before. Cost $6,189

Interest rates -capped at 11% for me - reached 15%+ during the loan which we'd paid off about 1995, when petrol was about 70 cents/litre (When my Classic was priced at $95k....)

In 2000 we lashed out $78,000 to extend and double the living space, and now it's a 4x2. I was on $55k.

Today, the median price for same/smaller houses in this area, 30 mins from the Perth CBD, is $370,000 and petrol is $1.47/litre.
Now I'm eating into my dwindling savings, driving busses and sweepers..and wondering how my sons will ever afford an old house, never mind a new one!

But lots of 'refugees' from the world's trouble - spots seem to be driving around my area in, 'not cheap & cheerful' cars. Dunno how they do it...

[Offender90]

too many "investment" properties.

need to do what singapore has done.

first house, no stamp duty
second house (aka investment property), 50% stamp duty

basically makes it very easy to get a house (as it should be)
makes it very expensive to buy a second house..

I like the concept - how do they prevent a couple from not owning two properties, one in each name (or more properties held under corporate structures, or in kids names)? I imagine that would fly like a lead balloon with the voting public.

Should at least phase out negative gearing over 5 or so years before taking more drastic steps. All it does is push house prices out of reach of those who can least afford them. The bill to the taxpayer? Around $13 billion for the last financial year! Hawke & Keating tried in 1985 but had to reinstate following the '87 stock crash.

[Eevo]

I like the concept - how do they prevent a couple from not owning two properties, one in each name (or more properties held under corporate structures, or in kids names)? I imagine that would fly like a lead balloon with the voting public.

Should at least phase out negative gearing over 5 or so years before taking more drastic steps. All it does is push house prices out of reach of those who can least afford them. The bill to the taxpayer? Around $13 billion for the last financial year! Hawke & Keating tried in 1985 but had to reinstate following the '87 stock crash.

I'm not sure how its done to that level of detail.

Negative gearing should be removed. It encourages bad investment.
Equity is a scam too.

[jimr1]

Slunnie - you make your living taking people with no skill sets.. And giving them some...

I've met an 85yr old woman who had just finished her degree... Been a cleaner all her working life...
If this is true , don't you think she has left it a bit late , to make a coria change , and if so who is going to give an 85 year old a job , CV. will say experience cleaner all my life ,but I do have a degree !!..

[d2dave]

Negative gearing should be removed. It encourages bad investment.


There are two reasons for negative gearing. The government is trying to encourage people to become self funded in retirement, as there can't be pensions in the future.

The second is that there is a shortage of rental housing, and if the private sector does not invest, the government would have to do it, which they don't want to, as we all know that governments aren't very good at managing things

This is why it is highly unlikely that negative gearing will be abolished

[jimr1]

I know it is obvious, but you would be surprised as to how many people can't see the wood for the trees.

If you actually took it on board it would really help. Household budgeting is very simple economics, unfortunately it is a skill which is almost unknown, or so it seems.
I think that there should be a much higher emphasis placed on financial education at school. Most people learn about money from their parents and most peoples parents have poor money skills.
I realise that is a generalisation, but I think it is one that happens to be true.
I agree 100% with you on this one ,all through my schooldays , plus collage I like many others were never taught about any form of finance and its control , I have also advocated that schools should put at least basic financial education on the curriculum , as I feel It is an important life skill .!!..

[jimr1]

My story is similar but compared to me you are rich !

You might have had to work every dayof teh week but I had to invent a whole other day just toget enough work done ! An eight day working week !




Seriously though... wealth is purely relative. (and I wish I had some horribly wealthy sick elderly relatives!) :lol2:
your lucky , you had it easy I had to work for a $1 a day ,then pay the boss $1.50 back because he was good enough to give me a job , but then my fortunes changed I found a $1 brought a scratchy and won $10 and brought a loto ticket and WON $25,000,000 so now I don't give him the $1.50 I work for nothing because I'm a good bloke !!..I've always been a ball****er ....

[BigJon]

If this is true , don't you think she has left it a bit late , to make a coria change , and if so who is going to give an 85 year old a job , CV. will say experience cleaner all my life ,but I do have a degree !!..

Many people don't pursue higher education to enhance their career. Some just like to study. Some are professional students. I suspect the lady in this story wanted the life experience.

[jimr1]

I agree with some of the points in the previ want and ot evading tax in any way, shape or form. Of course, I am minimising my tax. Anybody in this country who does not minimise his tax wants his head read. I can tell you as a government that you are not spending it so well that we should be donating extra.
Kerry Packer
When you look back at Kerry Packer , his wealth didn't bring him good health ,far from it . Looking at his story I don't think It even brought him happiness . Did he ever get to see grandchildren ? life is a very preciouses gift , some people never learn how to appreciate it !!..

[Gerokent]

money cant buy happiness, but it can buy a yatcht big enough to park up next to it :D

[Chucaro]

When you look back at Kerry Packer , his wealth didn't bring him good health ,far from it . Looking at his story I don't think It even brought him happiness . Did he ever get to see grandchildren ? life is a very preciouses gift , some people never learn how to appreciate it !!..

I agree with you, money for me it is not important, health and clean conscience to be able to sleep in peace in wealth for me.
My wealth is to have a happy and healthy family and enjoy good quality time with them.
In the case of Packer wealth did not brought bad health, for sure if he was poor still will be sick.
When a person is sick it is nice to have enough money to be comfortable and have good medical attention. :)

[trog]

I'll consider myself rich when i can finally get out of the casual, contract sector and into permanent [ full part or job share] work. I feel a certain amount of envy for those collecting benifits. At least they know where the next dollar is coming from and if smart budget accordingly. Lurching about from a bit here to a bit there is not a life or a future. Soon I will start considering the selling of my car as the costs are outweighing the income of late. But then hamstrung by the proviso of needing a car to be on the agency books. Time to call the agency again to let them know Im alive and another troll through seek. Living the dream :)

[frantic]

A lot of people complain about negative gearing when all its doing is lowering the cost of rent. They all like to ignore the reality of successive gov'ts from both sides releasing insufficient land to cope with population growth. This has occurred for over 15 years where the state's have been between 10-20% short of the actual lots needed to cope with population growth. The correct effect is to drive up land prices. This in turn creates the drive to build bigger houses as it looks stupid to pay $500k+ for a nice block and then put a $180k 3 bedroom house On it. You simply won't get the return on your investment, whereas you spend $300k on a mcmansion and it will grow in value faster.
I live and luckily work in the Illawarra but a few facts, over 60% of houses sold north of corrrimal are to a person moving from Sydney, around 30-40% in shellharbours estate are the same. Over 20,000 people commute from down here to Sydney to work daily and the central coast is the same, areas where 15 years ago you could buy a block from 50-100k are now $200-450k for the same size block.

[d2dave]

I have also advocated that schools should put at least basic financial education on the curriculum , as I feel It is an important life skill .!!..

This is what parents are for. We have one about to turn 23 and working full time as well as studying. He is very good at budgeting because through his teenage years we taught him.

Our other child almost 21 is still at uni but works part time.He also is good with money, for the same reasons, although often broke because he does not earn a lot.

[BigJon]

This is what parents are for.

See my earlier post. Parents with no / poor money skills can't teach their kids good money skills.

[Disco Muppet]

...

[Basil135]

You did exactly what i did, Mr Muppet, and for the same reason...

LOL

:D

[Disco Muppet]

;)
:lol2:

[bob10]

The poor get blown to hell by a typhoon, and get left to slowly die , or descend into anarchy because their government can't cope. I wonder how many people here have donated to help. My mother has, and all of her friends, they are pensioners, they know hard times, during the depression. Makes you wonder, no one here has actually gone thru really hard times, & I say a few would not give a tinkers cuss about anything but spending money on their toy. Such is life, as some one once said, Bob

[mikehzz]

A typhoon? I think the rich refer to it as a business opportunity....you know, like most wars.

[Chucaro]

The poor get blown to hell by a typhoon, and get left to slowly die , or descend into anarchy because their government can't cope. I wonder how many people here have donated to help. My mother has, and all of her friends, they are pensioners, they know hard times, during the depression. Makes you wonder, no one here has actually gone thru really hard times, & I say a few would not give a tinkers cuss about anything but spending money on their toy. Such is life, as some one once said, Bob

Bob we cannot even look after Bundaberg!
The place still not in its feet and home been bought by developers by peanuts and put in the rental market for $400 a week to "support"the homeless........

[Eevo]

philippines (like most of the world) is overpopulated.

[bob10]

philippines (like most of the world) is overpopulated.

This is starting to get scary, so far I have agreed with you more than once tonight, in different threads. Bob

[Eevo]

This is starting to get scary, so far I have agreed with you more than once tonight, in different threads. Bob

great minds think alike.

what was the other thread?

[incisor]

great minds think alike.

what was the other thread?

a full moon mind meld between bob10 and eevo

climate change just took one step too far!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ramblingboy42]

Here's what to do.....there is no magic formula. Walk into your bank and ask them to discuss your financial situation with them and that you'd like to find out how to get involved in an investment program that suits your budget. Don't go to one the sharp operators who advertise their schemes (this helps them get rich on %ges). Westpac WILL discuss this at every level and advise you what you need to do to get started...within your comfort zone.....and they will tell you if you are aiming too high..... there are any number of "investment advisers" but your bank isn't going to want to lose any money even if it's yours, they do everything to protect it. All banks have similar schemes, Westpac have a superb one backed their BT Financial Services products.