Security Guard tossers

[Roverlord off road spares]

too many moons ago I did night security patrols, it wasn't until i was shot at and had a gun pointed on me that i thought I needed a firearm, so a .38 SW special was purchased and a holster. Now the in group that had .357 Magnums one even had a .44 magnum. Then came the bat belt with the mandatory speed loaders, 2 of in fact, incase they got intop a dirty harry style of shoot out and the huge magnalite allloy torches to use as battons.
In all the years i worked in that job, I only once had to pull my revolver out as I was being king hit from behind by an offender as I grappled with his mate.
Well Yesterday I pulled into a servo and the biggest toss I have seen pulls up.
A sedan with checker boarding on the panels, the roof rack with the light rack of LED flashing YELLOW Lights ( look every body I'm a wanna be cop)
The gut gets out, the leg holster with the glock, the bat belt, ammo pouch, the flack jacket with PATROL written on the back,the badges, the Dark wrap- a-round glasses came on as he got out of the car, but before he could enter the servo, on came the special leather gloves. This guy had more stuff on than our police a or our protective service officers.
I know 4wdrivers love accessories, some even just do it for the bling.
But this guy was a tosser, he has no more power under the crimes act than a citizen, some of these guys have problems, I found that out in the years I was in the game, some are just waiting for the Chuck Norris or Steven Segal fight to happen and who knows what will happen.

[NavyDiver]

Moon lighted as a security guard to pay for a nice BMW Bike I brought when I was 18 some one had the cheek to ask if my mum and dad brought it for me. :D

Security was fun some of the time. Jewelry show in the change room was tough! those models droped there cloths and changed with out a care about my beetroot red blushing face. Pistols some times boredom most of the time, most of my kit was a blue shirt and blue pants if that:D

A few Tossers are in most industries. Bouncers, Doctors, driving instructors, builders even a few Land Rover drivers? :wasntme:....

Yours would have been a great picture:D:D:D:D
http://graphicriver.net/item/security-guard/4307145

[rangieman]

Too true Mario :D After reading that the first thing that reminded me of something similar is some of the CFA members ive met over the years ill say no more not wanting to put down Cfa members but some are out there;)

[d2dave]

A few Tossers are in most industries. Bouncers, Doctors, driving instructors, builders even a few Land Rover drivers? :wasntme:....

Yours would have been a great picture:D:D:D:D
Vectors - Security Guard | GraphicRiver (http://graphicriver.net/item/security-guard/4307145)

You forgot Landcruiser drivers. Plenty of them are tossers.

[Blknight.aus]

too many moons ago I did night security patrols, it wasn't until i was shot at and had a gun pointed on me that i thought I needed a firearm, so a .38 SW special was purchased and a holster. Now the in group that had .357 Magnums one even had a .44 magnum. Then came the bat belt with the mandatory speed loaders, 2 of in fact, incase they got intop a dirty harry style of shoot out and the huge magnalite allloy torches to use as battons.
In all the years i worked in that job, I only once had to pull my revolver out as I was being king hit from behind by an offender as I grappled with his mate.
Well Yesterday I pulled into a servo and the biggest toss I have seen pulls up.
A sedan with checker boarding on the panels, the roof rack with the light rack of LED flashing YELLOW Lights ( look every body I'm a wanna be cop)
The gut gets out, the leg holster with the glock, the bat belt, ammo pouch, the flack jacket with PATROL written on the back,the badges, the Dark wrap- a-round glasses came on as he got out of the car, but before he could enter the servo, on came the special leather gloves. This guy had more stuff on than our police a or our protective service officers.
I know 4wdrivers love accessories, some even just do it for the bling.
But this guy was a tosser, he has no more power under the crimes act than a citizen, some of these guys have problems, I found that out in the years I was in the game, some are just waiting for the Chuck Norris or Steven Segal fight to happen and who knows what will happen.

then you see them with the mags in the holders with the platform uppermost and showing and a hole in the bottom of the handgrip.


or my personal favorite...

the guy out here at river stink who if you look close enough hasnt even gone to the effort of sanding back the molding joints on the back of the handgrip on his glock.

[Disco Muppet]

Sure it wasn't Dog the bounty hunter? :D
Seriously though.
Tactical equipment is fine if you're using it, but buying a bunch of stuff to be Tacticool is for tossers.
But they're everywhere, even behind the wheel of land rovers.

[Homestar]

They are about. Had a run in with a carpark security guard a while back while parked in a 15 minute pickup zone next to the train station - waiting to pick my Daughter up from the (running late) train. I'd only been there for 5 minutes or so when wannerbe cop struts over and taps on my window. I roll it down and say hi, to which he responds 'if you don't move your car, I'll book you'. My answer was obviously something like get a new watch, I've only been here 5 minutes - he then got the ****s and started saying he could have me arrested for talking to him like that. I told him to try it, to which he blew a gasket. I told him I'd save him the trouble and call the 'real Police' myself and have him charged for threatening me...

The train turned up then , and he stormed off when my Daughter arrived mumbling something like 'don't let me catch you here again'...

Absolute tosser. Never seen him since though, and I still use that carpark all the time.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

These sorts of wannabees usually are the ones that have already been rejected as unsuitable for Police or prisons. Its sad but true that security licences are too easy to acquire, in fact some are basically mail order and the training organsations pay little or no attention to the personality of the applicant. The only thing that is important is the dollars for the course.

[dullbird]

These sorts of wannabees usually are the ones that have already been rejected as unsuitable for Police or prisons. Its sad but truethat security licences are too easy to acquire, in fact some are basically mail order and the training organsations pay little or no attention to the personality of the applicant. The only thing that is important is the dollars for the course.

that line really gives me the ****s because its such a massive assumption


I hear that a lot, so its not just directed at security and none of my colleagues were ever rejected in fact some of ours have come form the police..so it wouldnt surprise me if its the same for the security industry

[JamesB71]

I worked in security as a bouncer and a bodyguard for 6 years back in the 90's and never met anyone who was a rejected cop. Plenty of cops moonlighting for extra cash though.

(Some of them were tossers)

[Bigbjorn]

The CES used to think this was a suitable occupation for middle and mature age long term unemployed and sent many off to training courses to get the required qualifications. Another favourite was roadworks lollypop wavers aka traffic marshals or traffic directors.

[Roverlord off road spares]

I did participate once with some other patrol officers at a clients premises where they took their meal break. 1st thing they did was this ritual of pulling their revolvers and sitting on the table, Then the gun fiddling started, each checking out the others ones piece:D ( Fire arms I meant). I love the nickle plating on your colt, Yeah I like the Pachmayer rubber grips on your SW.
I love the target sights on yours. do you find the snub nose not as accurate. Nah wouldn't have a .38, I like the stopping power of the .357 .
I never had lunch with that lot again. It wasn't my scene

[Treads]

A sedan with checker boarding on the panels, the roof rack with the light rack of LED flashing YELLOW Lights ( look every body I'm a wanna be cop)


That's a bit harsh. Who's to know if he has any say over the look or style of the vehicle he drives?

As for the flippant 'wanna be cop' line - I know a few guys and girls that were guards, and are now excellent police officers. And on the other side I've never met a guard who wanted to be a cop; but plenty who used to be one ;)


The gut gets out, the leg holster with the glock, the bat belt, ammo pouch, the flack jacket with PATROL written on the back,the badges, the Dark wrap- a-round glasses came on as he got out of the car, but before he could enter the servo, on came the special leather gloves. This guy had more stuff on than our police a or our protective service officers.

Have you looked at what the police carry these days? Sounds like the same to me. I'd hazard a guess that as a professional armed guard that either he, or his employer, has deemed that if it's good for the cops to wear, then it's good for them too.

So overall, did he do anything that was unprofessional or detracted from the image of his employer? or is your rant just jealousy?

[87County]

I did participate once with some other patrol officers at a clients premises where they took their meal break. 1st thing they did was this ritual of pulling their revolvers and sitting on the table, Then the gun fiddling started, each checking out the others ones piece:D ( Fire arms I meant). I love the nickle plating on your colt, Yeah I like the Pachmayer rubber grips on your SW.
I love the target sights on yours. do you find the snub nose not as accurate. Nah wouldn't have a .38, I like the stopping power of the .357 .
I never had lunch with that lot again. It wasn't my scene

???

[stallie]

Don't get me started on airport security, and the glee many have in their eye when they pull me aside (with me in full uniform and airside ID clearly visible) for a check whilst letting all and sundry past unhindered.

[Basil135]

I have been involved with the security industry for the last 23 + years.

Originally, I started as a guard, and then moved onto patrols, and then moved again into the alarms side.

I used to carry a fair bit of crap on my belt. We had no say in the firearms, they were issued to us at the start of the shift, and returned at the end. The only reason I carried a firearm, was that as part of my duties, I had to do a cash escort, and the client required the escort be armed.

However, I did carry a Maglite, handcuffs & had a baton in the car. Imagine this... you are on patrols, it is 2am, and you come across a door that has been forced open. Easy... call for backup & watch & observe until someone else arrives.

However, what if you went in a different way to the bad guys, and had no idea they were in there? The first thing you see of them, is them using a large carving knife to pry open the till. Suddenly, and without thinking, the torch is in my left hand, and the right has dropped to my waist. There was a counter between us, and as long as he didn't jump it with the knife in his hand, everyone would probably see the sun-rise.

Good thing for both of us, he dropped the knife & bolted out the door. He was using it as a tool, and not a weapon. If he had chosen the latter, I am really hoping my training would have kicked in, however, 3 rounds of 9mm parabellum, centre of mass, is not going to lead to a happy ending for anyone.

I have a stack of stories, most of which my family has never heard for obvious reasons...

Now, lets tackle some of the other issues that have come up so far...

Yes, there are some patrol companies that have their cars blinged up like quasi police cars. They are well know throughout the industry, and are thought about in a similar vein to what has already been mentioned here. However, don't tar them all with the same brush. Again, client requirments come into it a fair bit. If you had to make a vehicle or 3 look like that to satisfy the conditions of a contract worth several hundred, thousand dollars per year, wouldn't you?

As for training, and the apparent ease of getting a licence. Please, spare me. If you have not applied for a security licence in the last 5 years, then you may be surprised. Every state now requires all applicants to submit to finger-printing. Thats fine with me, and now all bar 2 states have a copy of my finger prints on file.

Some states require a stack of additional information. Yes you have to have passed the course. However, in Victoria for example, you also have to provide 2 character references. These references MUST be from a select group of people, and they must have known you personally for a minimum period. Sounds easy? I just had one guy that transferred from Queensland to Victoria, but because he didn't know anyone that fitted the criteria, he had great difficulty getting his licence.

In SA, your security licence is linked to everything else you do. If I am CHARGED with an offence under the Crimes Act, then my licence will be suspended. If I am found guilty, then it will be revoked. No grey area's here.

Like others here, I have never met anyone that was doing security work because they failed to get into police. Thats like saying "Oh, I am a nurse cause I didn't make the grade to be a doctor". Or, "I am a first aid attendant, but I really wanted to be a brain surgeon"

Yes, there are rogues, wannabees, and attention seekers in the industry. They are known, and are slowly being squeezed out. There are also "parking attendants" that wear the same, or a very similar, uniform to licenced security guards.

The industry is tightly regulated by state governments. Try doing business in each state, with NO mutual recognicion in place. Makes it hard.

Yes, the RTO's are pumping out a large number of students at alarming rates. Yes, in some cases it is almost, "pay your money, and you will get your licence" However, these are the exception to the rule, and if anyone has information to the contrary, please pass it on.

Yes, I am defensive of the industry. Yes, I know there are problems. But, for the main part, it is a good industry with only minimal issues. I have had run-in's with over zealous guards at times. I have the advantage that I know as much, or a little bit more, than they do.

These days, I am on the electronic security side more than the physical. However, next time you go to an ATM, just think for a second, that if it wasn't for a security guard, that ATM would not be there & stocked.

Don't know about you, but walking thru a shopping centre with that much cash doesn't appeal to me much any more....

[JamesB71]

Well said Basil.

I was in security because I had a skill and the level temperament for it, and needed a job to pay for uni, and then afterwards until I found my feet in my career. Im sure if I had wanted to I could have been a cop, but I never considered that path and certainly didnt take on security because I aspired to be a cop.

[Roverlord off road spares]

Hey guys I didn't mean to offend and get peoples noses out of joint, it wasn't a generalisation, it was the one I observed.
Firstly, police put themselves out their every day into situation unknown.
A security patrol checks buildings, checks gates, enter buildings.
I have entered building in the wee hours of the morning with offenders on site.
But the amount of ammo some of these security guards carry on their belts pouches, I doubt they are going to have a big shoot out American movie style.
There are cowboys in the industry and there are others that are not. Sorry if I offended any of the other.

[Basil135]

But the amount of ammo some of these security guards carry on their belts pouches, I doubt they are going to have a big shoot out American movie style.


I fail to see the need for them to carry so much ammo, or, for that matter, any extra ammo at all. They are NOT police, and the chances of a normal guard or patrol officer even drawing their firearm, let alone actually using it, is minimal. The odds of them EVER needing to re-load, is even less.

The exception to this, are the guards on the cash trucks. I have seen the cctv footage of a couple of these robberies, and the guard in Melbourne that was killed on duty a few years back, was one of ours. Not a job I would like.



There are cowboys in the industry and there are others that are not. Sorry if I offended any of the other.

You are right, and I for one, am not offended. As with a lot of things, it is the rogues and cowboys that bring the attention to themselves.

If ours, and any other industry, can get rid of the bad guys, then everyone would be better off. :nazilock:

[Lotz-A-Landies]

that line really gives me the ****s because its such a massive assumption


I hear that a lot, so its not just directed at security and none of my colleagues were ever rejected in fact some of ours have come form the police..so it wouldnt surprise me if its the same for the security industryDB

You read me wrong, the ninja at the lead of this thread is the type of wannabe I'm talking about. You may also not be aware that I worked in the NSW Prisons Service and have a Police officer in my family. Also having worked in Emergency Departments for several decades i have had a lot of experience of Police.

When you get the NSW Police and security training authorities making the claim, there is actually some substance in the claim. "Cameron Smith from the New South Wales Police says it is a legal loophole that needs to be fixed.

"People who are unwilling or incapable of getting through our training requirements are able to get through those interstate courses," Mr Smith said."

"The SECTA training academy in New South Wales says in Queensland it is laughably easy to get the qualification that lets you become a licensed guard anywhere in Australia.

"You do a two-day training course, in some cases not even two days, you just virtually buy your certificate," SECTA's Duncan McGufficke said." Sham security courses putting lives at risk - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-09-24/sham-security-courses-putting-lives-at-risk/4278126)

Even acadamic literature has higlighted the problems of mutual recognition of some Qld training providers: "In Queensland, as one example of an anomaly, it is possible to obtain a security consultant licence without undertaking any training (Office of Fair Trading 2012). Indeed, the ease with which a person can obtain a security licence in Queensland (along with allegations that the assignment answers are provided by one less than reputable training agency) was highlighted in a media report recently (Harvey 2012)" www.crimejusticejournal.com article download (www.crimejusticejournal.com%2Farticle%2Fdownload)

[Basil135]

DB

You read me wrong, the ninja at the lead of this thread is the type of wannabe I'm talking about. You may also not be aware that I worked in the NSW Prisons Service and have a Police officer in my family. Also having worked in Emergency Departments for several decades i have had a lot of experience of Police.

When you get the NSW Police and security training authorities making the claim, there is actually some substance in the claim. "Cameron Smith from the New South Wales Police says it is a legal loophole that needs to be fixed.

"People who are unwilling or incapable of getting through our training requirements are able to get through those interstate courses," Mr Smith said."

"The SECTA training academy in New South Wales says in Queensland it is laughably easy to get the qualification that lets you become a licensed guard anywhere in Australia.

"You do a two-day training course, in some cases not even two days, you just virtually buy your certificate," SECTA's Duncan McGufficke said." Sham security courses putting lives at risk - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-09-24/sham-security-courses-putting-lives-at-risk/4278126)

Even acadamic literature has higlighted the problems of mutual recognition of some Qld training providers: "In Queensland, as one example of an anomaly, it is possible to obtain a security consultant licence without undertaking any training (Office of Fair Trading 2012). Indeed, the ease with which a person can obtain a security licence in Queensland (along with allegations that the assignment answers are provided by one less than reputable training agency) was highlighted in a media report recently (Harvey 2012)" www.crimejusticejournal.com article download (www.crimejusticejournal.com%2Farticle%2Fdownload)


Diana,

I understand what you are saying here, but in all fairness, it needs to be pointed out that this article is 12 months old.

In that time, there have been a lot of changes, especially in Queensland. Most have taken place this year.

Also, mutual recognition is a lot harder to get than the article would suggest. It was actually easier for me to apply for a new licence in 2 states, rather than try and obtain mutual recognition. As for WA, well you cannot hold a licence there unless you are a resident of that state.

"it is possible to obtain a security consultant licence without undertaking any training"

This above statement needs to be put into context, as the definition of "Security Consultant" is different state by state. For example, in SA, a person with this classification is restricted to selling electronic alarm systems, as an employee, whilst under supervision.

In Victoria, I understand that the same term also encompasses the selling of guard & patrol work.

As with a lot of things, co-operation between the states & territories on matters such as this, is basically non existent. Just imagine having them all in the same room together, and trying to get agreement on a simple definition of the word, "Duress" I think I would rather herd cats.... :eek:

[dullbird]

DB


You read me wrong, the ninja at the lead of this thread is the type of wannabe I'm talking about. You may also not be aware that I worked in the NSW Prisons Service and have a Police officer in my family. Also having worked in Emergency Departments for several decades i have had a lot of experience of Police.

When you get the NSW Police and security training authorities making the claim, there is actually some substance in the claim. "Cameron Smith from the New South Wales Police says it is a legal loophole that needs to be fixed.

"People who are unwilling or incapable of getting through our training requirements are able to get through those interstate courses," Mr Smith said."

"The SECTA training academy in New South Wales says in Queensland it is laughably easy to get the qualification that lets you become a licensed guard anywhere in Australia.

"You do a two-day training course, in some cases not even two days, you just virtually buy your certificate," SECTA's Duncan McGufficke said." Sham security courses putting lives at risk - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-09-24/sham-security-courses-putting-lives-at-risk/4278126)

Even acadamic literature has higlighted the problems of mutual recognition of some Qld training providers: "In Queensland, as one example of an anomaly, it is possible to obtain a security consultant licence without undertaking any training (Office of Fair Trading 2012). Indeed, the ease with which a person can obtain a security licence in Queensland (along with allegations that the assignment answers are provided by one less than reputable training agency) was highlighted in a media report recently (Harvey 2012)" www.crimejusticejournal.com article download (http://www.crimejusticejournal.com%2Farticle%2Fdownload)


i dont think I did read it wrong I wasn't suggesting you saying it out gives me the iriates only the fact that, that particular line gives me the irrits because it gets thrown around A LOT and generally to ANYONE that wears a uniform and appointments that isn't a police officer....

I fail to see what that line has to do with anyone getting a licence easily by means of crappy courses...the line talks about them being failed cops...

and when Mr Smith talks about training course..is he talking about the police or the training courses for security in NSW because he doesnt specify. But I would suggest not the police taking the document context in to account

I too work with the police Diana daily! I also have friends that are police officers and funnily enough I have a police officer in the family all be it in the UK but police officers don't usually get called failed cops, so again I'm struggling with the relevance..:p

again my gripe is with that particular line that a wannabe (anyone that is dressed like the police) is a failed cop. I bet my bottom dollar that a large portion of the security industry whether they got a kelloggs licence or not never even tried for the cops.

Just sayin:)

[d2dave]

to ANYONE that wears a uniform and appointments that isn't a police officer....


Lou. I don't see it this way, and I did not read the OP's post that way.

It is not about every one that wears a uniform, it is the way some people wear them.

My son is a pilot and he and the ones he hangs with hate having to wear the bars on their shoulders. As soon as they are off duty off come the bars, yet there are plenty that like to wear them all the time to say "look at me, I am a pilot".

He calls them ****** bars, or in the context of the OP, could be called tosser bars.

[dullbird]

I understand what your saying but

my comments are not in relation to the original poster calling that guy he saw a tosser..

my comment is in relation to this comment one that I hear in my profession and one I believe to be a massive assumption of anyone that wears a uniform that looks like a cop.


These sorts of wannabees usually are the ones that have already been rejected as unsuitable for Police or prisons."these sorts of wannabees" is very subjective...yes Im sure Diana and the OP are talking about people that are exceptions to the rule and totally over the top and stick out a mile...

but it doesnt take away from the fact that the line IS used frequently to many that are not in this extreme bracket

that is why I said I'm not having a go at Diana for saying it more so that I hated that line because of what it so widely stands for now which is a mass assumption, one that, believe it or not some members of the public actually believe to be true. :)

I should clarify though we don't say that to each other in our profession like your son does in his, its said to us from outside our profession usually by the people that don't appreciate seeing us:D

[korg20000bc]

And don't forget there are other uniformed government departments that have security roles.
The Sheriff's Office, at least in NSW, have legislated powers and carry appointments.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

....
I should clarify though we don't say that to each other in our profession like your son does in his, its said to us from outside our profession usually by the people that don't appreciate seeing us:DDB

That is the conundrum of uniformed office. It's often a case of damned if you do and damned if you don't, it is often a very fine line you have to walk to make the best out of each situation. In many cases no one will be happy because it wasn't enough and it was too much at the same time.

However I have no doubt that you wouldn't appear on duty as some Robocop facsimile carrying a whole arsenal on your bat belt, threatening everyone with extensive powers that you do or do not hold.

Most security officers wouldn't either, they go about their business as professionals and no I wouldn't call these people wannabees either.

However I take your counsel and will refrain from the use of the term in future.

[dullbird]

Hey Diana

Sorry it wasnt meant to silence you and your thoughts...

just a pet hate that I probably voiced a little too loudly when I should of just ignored it...

[bob10]

After what happened in Kenya, I don't care if they are tossers [ and I'm sure the majority aren't], just as long as they can shoot straight, & have the courage to do so, Bob

[Lotz-A-Landies]

After what happened in Kenya, I don't care if they are tossers [ and I'm sure the majority aren't], just as long as they can shoot straight, & have the courage to do so, BobIf the reports the Al Shabaab terrorist group had rented a shop in the complex (to store their weapons prior the the attack) are true, then no matter how brave the security officer was, they would most likely still be dead from overwhelming enemy numbers alongside the many civilians.

However against a lone untrained gunman, an armed, well trained, cool headed security officer is the best defence until the Police arrive.

[Treads]

However against a lone untrained gunman, an armed, well trained, cool headed security officer is the best defence until the Police arrive.

Except in this country an armed security officer is a rare thing. It's hard enough to find one carrying batons/cuffs etc, let alone a gun :(

[Lotz-A-Landies]

However against a lone untrained gunman, an armed, well trained, cool headed security officer is the best defence until the Police arrive.
Except in this country an armed security officer is a rare thing. It's hard enough to find one carrying batons/cuffs etc, let alone a gun :(However the security guard could carry an imitation gun, so long as he has a permit, was a member of a collectors society and the imitation was on display in a museum or locked up in a gun safe! :eek:

[THE BOOGER]

However the security guard could carry an imitation gun, so long as he has a permit, was a member of a collectors society and the imitation was on display in a museum or locked up in a gun safe! :eek:

Not in NSW he couldn't, in the last few years all the rules have changed regards armed guards now cash in transit guards are about the only ones who carry, we gave up our lic several years ago as insurance and compliance cost just didn't make them worth the hassel:)

[bob10]

If the reports the Al Shabaab terrorist group had rented a shop in the complex (to store their weapons prior the the attack) are true, then no matter how brave the security officer was, they would most likely still be dead from overwhelming enemy numbers alongside the many civilians.

However against a lone untrained gunman, an armed, well trained, cool headed security officer is the best defence until the Police arrive.

We are entering the realms of Hollywood here, what I said stands. I live in the real World. Bob

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Not in NSW he couldn't, in the last few years all the rules have changed regards armed guards now cash in transit guards are about the only ones who carry, we gave up our lic several years ago as insurance and compliance cost just didn't make them worth the hassel:)You missed the comment about it only being on display in a museum or in a gun safe.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

We are entering the realms of Hollywood here, what I said stands. I live in the real World. Bob
Bob

I believe that Tasmanian Architect Ross Langdon believed he lived in the real world, it was certainly very real when he was executed by Al Shabaab militants.