Hydraulic drive of capstan winches

[normbourne]

Hi Guys,

I'm not to sure if I have already posted on this subject so please forgive me if I'm repeating myself.

I've managed to get hold of a capstan winch, it's in excellent condition but it's of the type that doesn't allow the use of a starting handle.

Accordingly I've decided on a hydraulic drive. I've found that very often the power steering pump is used to supply power to the winch motor.

Power steering is not fitted to my vehicle, so I will need to fit a pump and a motor to my system.

There in lies the rub, how do I determine the sizes, is it rated in flow rate or pressure...?

I reckon to power the pump from the PTO.

Any ideas lads. ..?

Thanks

Norm.

[wrinklearthur]

Hi Norm

Can you send us a picture of the capstan?
or PM me 'wrinklearthur' on this forum ( click on Private Messages: )

I can take it from there to let you know whether it's worthwhile doing that with the hydraulics or if there is another way of powering it.

What model Land Rover and engine do you have?
.

[normbourne]

Hi Norm

Can you send us a picture of the capstan?
or PM me 'wrinklearthur' on this forum ( click on Private Messages: )

I can take it from there to let you know whether it's worthwhile doing that with the hydraulics or if there is another way of powering it.

What model Land Rover and engine do you have?
.

Hi Arthur,

Thanks for the email, my vehicle is a 1964-67 series 2a, 4 cylinder petrol. As regards costings, I was hoping to pick up cheap, second hand gear on E-Bay, there seems to be quite a fair bit up for grabs. I don't know what's involved with the power take off, do I just take the cover off and fit my gear, or is there an extra bit of gear required. I'll post a photo but it's a bit awkward at the minute.

Thanks again mate,

Norm.

[chazza]

Accordingly I've decided on a hydraulic drive. I've found that very often the power steering pump is used to supply power to the winch motor.

There in lies the rub, how do I determine the sizes, is it rated in flow rate or pressure...?

I reckon to power the pump from the PTO.


Norm.

Pumps are rated on flow, although the ignorant often rate them on pressure; however; pressure in a hydraulic system is defined as resistance to flow.

I doubt that a power-steering pump, would have enough flow to drive a capstan winch, but any hydraulic-trained person can work it out for you using some mathematical formulae.
Which PTO are you proposing to use? If it is a centre PTO you could run the pump straight from the take-off perhaps, or drive it by belts remotely. The rear PTO would be rather awkward to use and I take it you don't want to use the crankshaft.

You will have to fit a hydraulic motor to the capstan and install a large fluid reservoir, so that the fluid doesn't overheat.

Let us know how you get on,

Cheers Charlie

[normbourne]

pkspidermonkey@gmail.com
Hi Norm
[QUOTE]

Can you send us a picture of the capstan?
or PM me 'wrinklearthur' on this forum ( click on Private Messages: )

I can take it from there to let you know whether it's worthwhile doing that with the hydraulics or if there is another way of powering it.


Hi Arthur,
Can you please advise how to forward photo's....??

Having a bit of trouble

Norm.

[Rick1970]

Work out the hydraulic motor speed required to get the drum speed you want....the easy bit.

Work out the required torque the motor needs to produce....may be some amount of guesswork in this.

You can then size a hydraulic motor that can give the required torque at a sensible operating pressure.

The size (displacement) of this motor and the required speed will determine the flow rate required.

Pump then can be sized with reguard to the speed it will be spinning at..

When this is done, you can determine your input hp/torque required....and if the place where you are going to drive it from is up to it. This can sometimes be a shock and if its excessive, you may have to sacrifice motor speed or torque to lower it somewhat.

Yes a power steering pump would run it, but my guess is that it would be painfully slow...at best.

[normbourne]

Hi Norm

Can you send us a picture of the capstan?
or PM me 'wrinklearthur' on this forum ( click on Private Messages: )

I can take it from there to let you know whether it's worthwhile doing that with the hydraulics or if there is another way of powering it.

What model Land Rover and engine do you have?
.

Arthur,
I'm having a bit of trouble working how to post photo,s can you advise ..?

Norm.

[normbourne]

Ive been trying to work out how to post attachments, with NO success...!


Could someone please advise on how to do it..?


Many thanks

Norm.

[wrinklearthur]

Hi Norm

After selecting the photo you want, the first thing is to have the size suitable for display, the width, height and quality ( measured in pixels ). 600 x 450 about 70 KB to 120 KB

To do this I use a program that is freeware called Pixsizer.
pix sizer free download (http://en.softonic.com/s/pix-sizer)

To operate, create two folders on your desktop, name the folders in a way that you only use them for a specific function, first for storing a copy of the picture with a large file and the other for the reduced picture size files.

Once you have your photo's ready, use the manage attachment function button at the bottom of the reply to thread page.

Left click on this button, the manage attachment page will open, left click on the Choose file button, select your photo file ( Front capstan.jpg ), left click the upload button.

After upload is done, then to present a large copy of the photo on your posting left click on the thumbnail link file name ( Front capstan.jpg (90.0 KB) ) this brings up a large view of the photo, right click on the large photo and select "copy image URL" ( http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=65938&stc=1&d-1379820337 )

Using the insert image icon click on it, this opens a address bar and paste the link ( http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=65938&stc=1&d-1379820337 ) into it.



Front Capstan

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

Rear Capstan

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/
.

[normbourne]

Hi Norm

After selecting the photo you want, the first thing is to have the size suitable for display, the width, height and quality ( measured in pixels ). 600 x 450 about 70 KB to 120 KB

To do this I use a program that is freeware called Pixsizer.
pix sizer free download (http://en.softonic.com/s/pix-sizer)

To operate, create two folders on your desktop, name the folders in a way that you only use them for a specific function, first for storing a copy of the picture with a large file and the other for the reduced picture size files.

Once you have your photo's ready, use the manage attachment function button at the bottom of the reply to thread page.

Left click on this button, the manage attachment page will open, left click on the Choose file button, select your photo file ( Front capstan.jpg ), left click the upload button.

After upload is done, then to present a large copy of the photo on your posting left click on the thumbnail link file name ( Front capstan.jpg (90.0 KB) ) this brings up a large view of the photo, right click on the large photo and select "copy image URL" ( http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=65938&stc=1&d-1379820337 )

Using the insert image icon click on it, this opens a address bar and paste the link ( http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=65938&stc=1&d-1379820337 ) into it.



Front Capstan

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=65938&stc=1&d=1379820297

Rear Capstan

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=65939&stc=1&d=1379820334
.

Thanks Arthur, I'll give that a bash, and we will see what happens.

That is what I would call, a very serious, series 1.......! A beautiful vehicle...!

Yes mate, I would be very proud.

Norm

[wrinklearthur]

That is what I would call, a very serious, series 1.......! A beautiful vehicle...! Yes mate, I would be very proud.
Hi Norm

My photo's, but those series ones definitely don't belong to me, They are part of a collection of pictures I took when at Cooma for the 60th anniversary of Land Rover.

By the way, I wonder what happened to the 80" Land Rover that belonged to a very tough character called Les, I met him after leaving the coldest job in Townsville, driving the electric forklift in the freezer rooms, to hottest job, working in Simms Metal yards cutting railway iron in the direct heat of the day with a oxy torch.
He had a huge caravan that he pulled with his poor little Land Rover. He worked and lived in the Simms Metal yard with his wife, this was in 1973 after 'Gough got in we got out' ( Nasho ) .
.

[normbourne]

Hi Norm

Can you send us a picture of the capstan?
or PM me 'wrinklearthur' on this forum ( click on Private Messages: )

I can take it from there to let you know whether it's worthwhile doing that with the hydraulics or if there is another way of powering it.

What model Land Rover and engine do you have?
.

G'day Arthur,

My IT GURU (my son) came round and got me going, just click below.

Im surprised to hear you were in the Ville, I got here in 1971, believe me there have been some massive changes since you were here, it's changed from small laid back town to a city which is growing at a tremendouss rate.

All the Br..sts,


Norm.
https://plus.google.com/app/basic/photos/104444397514208409897/album/5926581700256634577?authkey=CM3JmvCI8O6acA

[normbourne]

G'day Arthur,

My IT GURU (my son) came round and got me going, just click below.

Im surprised to hear you were in the Ville, I got here in 1971, believe me there have been some massive changes since you were here, it's changed from small laid back town to a city which is growing at a tremendouss rate.

All the Br..sts,


Norm.
https://plus.google.com/app/basic/photos/104444397514208409897/album/5926581700256634577?authkey=CM3JmvCI8O6acA

Hi Arthur,
Any thoughts on my winch.?
Norm.

[wrinklearthur]

Hi Norm

I would not use those parts, but instead put a call out to see if you can get a complete PTO drum winch to put on the front of the Land Rover.

I think the amount of construction needed to mount the capstan, then find a pto or build the hydraulic dive would be too much work, compared with the work to mount a second hand drum winch.

So compared with the cost of a second hand electric winch say $350, as a brand new one starts about $750.00 , you would have to ask yourself could you build everything for under that cost.

When you are by yourself in a single vehicle recovery situation, a drum winch wins hands down over a capstan. Using a capstan really needs the driver in control of the car and at the same time with someone else keeping tension on the rope around the capstan bollard.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/09/365.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/09/366.jpg

Sorry I sound a bit negative here, but I would consider another more powerful winch option first.

The good news is those type of capstans are about 50:1 ( not sure of actual ratio but they are about that order ), the power required to drive them isn't that much, so a small power steering pump ( like the off a 6 cylinder Holden ) and another one that is modified to act as a motor ( with drains' fitted to take pressure away from the seals ) would most likely be something that you could have a fiddle with without breaking the bank.

By experimenting with the coupling the hydraulic motor to the capstan with pulleys and a belt drive, a good compromise for speed verses torque can then be achieved.

Some one else may be able to tell you, then at bit more than a fast idle ( say about 1000 engine RPM ) what RPM the capstan bollard would rotate ( At a 50:1 ratio the capstan RPM would be 20 RPM ). The hydraulic motor I would think would run nicely at 2000 RPM, so by a reduction of 2:1 onto the input of the capstan, would keep the capstan bollard RPM still about the 20 RPM.
.