Opinion on the Defender 130 TD5 - buy or avoid?

[VladTepes]

I’ve got theoretical permission to get another 130 (I lieu of the disco).

I’d prefer a really good Tdi but ones without rust or significant work needed are pretty thin on the ground !

I am a bit cautious but was wondering what your opinion of the TD5 is – worth getting or not?

I have heard of some significant problems (especially with early ones) and can;t afford to be getting one requiring work and am a bit worried re: maintenance costs.

All advice and comments of a constructive nature are welcomed !

[MR LR]

Oh no, you've started another Tdi vs. Td5 debate...

Prepare for a load of answers completely contradicting each other, followed by the suggestion that a Puma is the best...

You will be even more confused!

Personally I'd buy a cooked Td5 and fit a Duramax...

Will

[VladTepes]

he he he yeah I'd buy a Puma if I had anywhere near enough cash.

The last thing I need is the hassle of rebuilding a car, fitting a new engine etc.




Edit: I just spoke to a mate who used to work for LR and he said he wouldn't buy a TD5 if I paid him!


If I could get a good Tdi I would definitely go that way.

[djam1]

I bought a 2002 TD5 a few years back it has never let me down but has cost me quite a bit over time.
I think a well sorted TD5 is a good thing but a bad one is to be avoided the fact that mine had been poorly maintained cost me over $7K something as simple as the wrong coolant can be expensive,
This is not a uniquely TD5 issue.
I don't believe that they are overly complex or the nightmare that the naysayers said back in 1999.

Would I do it again? Yes but only because its a hobby which is why I keep spending.

If I wanted to buy a second hand TD5 and drive it for years without spending money I think I would be deluding myself. This would apply to any vehicle that I buy apart from my wife's car that just gets driven around town.

Service records are vital in your case in my opinion.

[Psimpson7]

Seriously do a search... there must be a million threads on this.

[Disco Muppet]

Consider:

Before I got mine I didn't know anything about engines, apart from the fact that they went bang and the wheels turned.
Td5 is dead easy to work on and a far superior engine to the Tdi IMHO.
As said, do a search, this is becoming flogging a zombie horse it's been done so many times.

[MR LR]

he he he yeah I'd buy a Puma if I had anywhere near enough cash.

The last thing I need is the hassle of rebuilding a car, fitting a new engine etc.




Edit: I just spoke to a mate who used to work for LR and he said he wouldn't buy a TD5 if I paid him!


If I could get a good Tdi I would definitely go that way.
We used to own a well respected (it no longer exists) LR dealership in Sydney, we've run 3 Td5's for 10 years...

And yes it was a workshop too, so we saw all the problems.

But they are the vehicles we've kept the longest, 1 is sold, replaced with a D4, the other two still rack up daily driving k's, I had a Tdi, a Td5 is better all round, unless you aren't interested in power or doing maintenance at all.

I'd suggest your mate hasn't actually driven one properly.

Will

[VladTepes]

Well everyone is entitled to an opinion - he worked for LR for MANY years from the time he apprenticed there and worked his way well up the ranks. Anyway...

I am quite happy with my Disco Tdi engine wise so the outtright power etc of a Td5 (or lack of it for a Tdi) is not a deal breaker for me.

The relative cost of injectors etc on a CRD probably is !


Discomuppet - :lol2: Zombie Horse resurrection ! :lol2:

[MR LR]

There's a difference between driving and working on them. I doubt he worked there since 1960 though... haha

If reliability and longevity, with simple maintenance is your thing, I'd go a Tdi, I miss mine, however I prefer DD'ing the Td5, I do a lot of highway driving.

Will

[chewy7]

In my opinion, i think you need to get used to using a set of tools. Start some DIY projects on the car. They are 10-15yr old cars now and like any other car of that age, require attention.

I'm sure you will enjoy either engine, but be pre-pared to do some work yourself, otherwise you will hate it purely for the money involved to pay a mechanic, who himself might not know exactly what he's doing and charge you an arm and a leg.

[VladTepes]

There's a difference between driving and working on them. I doubt he worked there since 1960 though... haha


Indeed. By the way you obviously made it through the Great War OK ? :lol2: :wasntme:


If reliability and longevity, with simple maintenance is your thing, I'd go a Tdi,


They are and, given the opportunity, I will.

Thanks :D

[OffTrack]

I am quite happy with my Disco Tdi engine wise so the outtright power etc of a Td5 (or lack of it for a Tdi) is not a deal breaker for me.


Why do I get the feeling you are trying to troll your way to 15,000 posts?

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=66070&stc=1&d=1380001710

:wasntme: :twisted:

[VladTepes]

Offtrack if Inc was able to add back in the number of posts some of us had before the big forum meltdown of some years back I'd be WELL beyond that !


I've been here for... ages.

[Disco Muppet]

As you've mentioned finding a good tdi 130 might be a bit of a challenge.
There seems to have been a fair few Td5 130s around teh interwebz in my recent browsings (pondering the what ifs of land rover ownership).
Might be easier to get a good one.
Go on, take the plunge :D

[djam1]

Kays are high but head and cooling system has been done

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/showthread.php?p=1995528#post1995528

[jimr1]

Hi I had a disco2 td5 I thought it was a good truck towed my van ok ,plus good fuel economy , sadly got wrote off , It was very reliable , I also have a td5 Defender 266 ks plus ,still runs lovely I do look after it , cost very little in repairs . I hope that I haven't just put a big jinx on myself , jimr1:):)

[LowRanger]

I have a 110 Tdi and a 130 Td5.As far as a daily driver is concerned,the Td5 wins hands down.As for short day trips and just putting a smile on you face,the 200Tdi wins :DIt just plods along,not going fast,and I get to see the scenery:cool:

[blue_mini]

I like my tdi defender because it just keeps going, bad fuel, no exhaust, old oil, clogged air filter. It's always the same speed, always uses the same amount of fuel.

I like my td5 discovery because it's more powerful. A bit smoother to drive, quieter. But it's in a disco 2 so it should be.
It uses more fuel as well.

Overall I'd buy the one that was priced well for what it was. But keep a spare 3 grand for the td5 for when the head goes.

I'm looking at selling my disco to get another defender. Probably end up with a tdi. I think the electronic land rovers are great and I like driving them. But they're not what I like about land rovers.

[Cliffy]

I heard all the crud about 130's but nothing (touch wood) has gone wrong with mine that could not have happened on a 110/disco.
Great room for a lot of gear and I seem to be able to negotiate tight spots as well as most other LR products just metro car parks suck.
I'd like the manners if a TD5 but I have great satisfaction in knowing I can rebuild the TDI myself ( which I had to do thanks to the beep seller who totally lied about the condition of the car).
Once I sorted all the poor maintenance and abuse faults she's been ace!
Only the crappy alarm gives me grief now and that's getting deep sixed soon!

[VladTepes]

Cliffy I had no doubt about a 130 - that was a given, I love them.


I do agree with these statements though -


I like my tdi defender because it just keeps going,

It's always the same speed, always uses the same amount of fuel.

I think the electronic land rovers are great and I like driving them. But they're not what I like about land rovers.

Indeed, and I reckon that a 300Tdi is the choie for ME !

(I've now had 1 x 200Tdi and 2 x 300Tdi engined landies and been happy enough with them)

Given how much we spent on SWMBO Jackaroo recently (2 injectors needed replacing among other things) I havea lot of trepidation re electronic cars / CRD engines.



Thank you to everyone for their input.

[djam1]

Vlad the TD5 is not common rail it has unitary injectors that can be replaced for $300 each that's a total of $1500.
It has a pump in the tank that in my book is a service item at around 150K you can buy genuine in the UK for about $500.
Not sure what it costs to do a pump and injectors on a 300TDI as I have never owned one. They are a simple engine really being not much more difficult to work on than a 300TDI.

[VladTepes]

AH OK I did not know that - I thought they were $1500 EACH ! That's a but better.

My overwhelming concern was the issues that have been seen with the plastic plugs and heads. I've heard a lot of horror stories...

[djam1]

Vlad the $300 is the price you can buy them from Paddocks in the UK Being Paddocks it will take a while but you will get them in time I agree with the plastic dowel issue but if you don't have a corrosion or overheating issue its not a huge expense

[schuy1]

AH OK I did not know that - I thought they were $1500 EACH ! That's a but better.

My overwhelming concern was the issues that have been seen with the plastic plugs and heads. I've heard a lot of horror stories...


And that is just it, We hear the horror stories and rarely the good side. Its a bit like the saying, "Good news never sold a newspaper! " The TD5's injectors appear to be quite robust, rarely have I heard of any1 having to replace them all in 1 go! And the unitary injectors are actually a Detroit Diesel design! :)
I have a 110 ute 300TDi and now a TD5 discovery and really they are a muchness of a muchness to work on! :) Overheat the TDi and its a new head :o same as for the TD5 I think the extra oompf and drivability of the TD5 is great. Wouldnt worry me to get 1 in a defender.

Cheers Scott

[VladTepes]

Can people give me a list of the major things I need to check / be sure of in regard to teh service history?

What things should have been done (assume a high kms vehicle) ?

[Disco Muppet]

Cooling system should probably be the biggest concern.
Check for correct coolant, any stains, expansion tank level although this can vary and still be perfectly fine.
Oil Pump bolt, unless that's a D2 specific thing, not really sure.
Good service history, general tidiness, etc.
Someone more knowledgeable than I will be along shortly.

[Fraz]

I would highly recommend one. But then again I havent worked on, or driven a tdi or Puma.
I think it should come down to what tools you already have first, then what the vehicle will be used for second. You already have tdi gear, or would you rather the extra power from the 5th cyl?

Oil in the loom
coolant would be a big one as above. Look for floaties/oils etc in the tank
Remove the exhaust manifold heat shroud if fitted and look for diesel soot on the head. Particularly around the front and rear of the manifold, indicating broken studs. Easy fix though. Listen for a horrible whistle on boost (although may not always occur even if one is broken)
Remove the turbo intake and gently wobble the spindle with a finger. Shouldnt be nil or not too much play, Look for scratches in the housing.
Look for diesel seepage on the rear drivers side of the block - the fuel reg has 2 or 4 (sorry cant remember) fuel lines going to it. Might need to remove the acoustic cover to see- 3 bolts
Squeeze turbo hoses - should be rubbery and flexi
Blacklash in the transmission

As with any engine you buy:
Coolant seepage from expansion tank lid
water pump leaks
dust/debris after the intake filter
Oil condition, smell
General tidyness

Things that should have been done (mines at 220, this is my list)
Fuel pump as above
idler + tensioner pulleys
belt

Things I will be doing shortly:
water pump, coolant/heater pipes etc
Head gasket (this is the big one :( )

But the most important thing here - Have fun :)