Viscous Coupling replacement

[mtb_gary]

I seem to be failing at step 1.

How to fit a viscous coupling unit

1) Remove front prop shaft

2) Drain oil from transfer box

3) Support gearbox and remove right hand gearbox mount

4) Remove bolt holding Viscous Coupling housing to transfer box

5) Rotate, to break silicone, and remove Viscous Coupling housing

6) Remove flange nut and flange and press out Viscous Coupling

7) Clean all joint faces

8) Replace Viscous Coupling and reassemble in reverse order

I just can't get a decent grip in the prop shaft nuts near the transfer box. Does anyone have a suggestion? I'd prefer not to remove the cross member if possible.

Gary

[benji]

When I tested my vc recently I had a 3/8drive 9/16 with a 6inch'ish' extension, and an open ended spanner on the bolt side. I had to rotate the prop shaft to get the last bolt though.

It'd be interesting to test the vc with a tension wrench, as they're supposed to have a certain amount of initial resistance.

Also, I'd be loosening the flange nut before you take it off the case.

[mtb_gary]

When I tested my vc recently I had a 3/8drive 9/16 with a 6inch'ish' extension, and an open ended spanner on the bolt side. I had to rotate the prop shaft to get the last bolt though.

It'd be interesting to test the vc with a tension wrench, as they're supposed to have a certain amount of initial resistance.

Also, I'd be loosening the flange nut before you take it off the case.

Thank's Benji. I shall persevere tomorrow.

As for the initial resistance I do not feel any resistance in the front wheel once it is raised off the ground. Hence it is stuffed :D

Gary

[benji]

:o none, zilj, squat, neine - shiezen kaputen ya!

[mtb_gary]

:o none, zilj, squat, neine - shiezen kaputen ya!

Ya, kaputen

Gary

[TheTree]

HI

One of these may help

Land Rover Prop Shaft NUT Tool 1 2" Drive DA1119 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Land-Rover-Prop-Shaft-Nut-Tool-1-2-Drive-DA1119-/400403578301?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item5d39e9bdbd)

Steve

[Hoges]

The tool DA1119 is almost indispensible for this sort of work. It's used across quite a few LR models. "Plan B" alternative (not real good) is a short thin-walled 3/8"drive 9/16" socket fitted with a "wobbly" extension bar to allow you to offset the ratchet. The nuts are nylocks and are supposed to be torqued to 50Nm (35 ft lbs) so they may be requiring significantly more than this to free them.

I bought one of the DA119s a few yrs ago and I used it with a $70 1/2" drive 12V rattle gun (otherwise used for removing wheel nuts) on the 9/16" flange bolts. A 'gentle' touch up with 250 ft lbs pulse gets things moving. It's especially useful for removing the large flange nut:twisted:

Make sure you get a spare seal for the flange when removing the VC from its casing. The VC needs to be pressed out....

[wayneg]

Land Rover servicing tips, tricks and tools - DA1119 Prop'shaft bolt tool. - YouTube

[mtb_gary]

Thanks guys I will be getting one!

In the meantime I have removed the 4 nuts on the end of the prop shaft that connects to the transfer case and managed to undo the big nut :D. I then thought whilst I'm on a roll why not try and remove the front bolts of the prop shaft and remove the prop shaft completely to give me a bit more room?

66401

This is the reason why we should spend a bit more on good quality tools! I was lucky this time, and did not get hurt, but it could have been pretty nasty! I was using the open end on the nut without any extension bars on the spanner. It must have been the spinach I had for tea last night :D.

Gary

[Keithy P38]

Spinach alright! Nice job! I feel your pain mate, have been giving the tools a nice little workout these last few weeks!

I hope the rest of your VC removal experience is pain free!

Cheers
Keithy

[PhilipA]

This post prompted me to find the one I bought about 6 months ago.

Took me about 1/2 hour "where did I put that flippin thing?"
Finally found it and put it into my in car toolbox.
Regards Philip A

[mtb_gary]

This post prompted me to find the one I bought about 6 months ago.

Took me about 1/2 hour "where did I put that flippin thing?"
Finally found it and put it into my in car toolbox.
Regards Philip A
If only you lived around the corner ;)

Gary

[mtb_gary]

Some good progress now it all seems to have come to a halt at step 5. Not sure what I'm missing? Step 6 is done. I have broken the seal and now have a pretty even gap of around 5mm. The VC housing spins freely, but won't move any further away from the transfer case. It seems so near and yet so far!

How to fit a viscous coupling unit

1) Remove front prop shaft

2) Drain oil from transfer box

3) Support gearbox and remove right hand gearbox mount

4) Remove bolt holding Viscous Coupling housing to transfer box

5) Rotate, to break silicone, and remove Viscous Coupling housing

6) Remove flange nut and flange and press out Viscous Coupling

Gary

[PhilipA]

AFAIK the only thing that could be holding it is the rear output shaft which goes into the rear of the coupling.
Usually the splines in the centre diff wear and jam but maybe in your case they have jammed in the VC.
Get a bigger hammer.
Regards Philip A

[mtb_gary]

AFAIK the only thing that could be holding it is the rear output shaft which goes into the rear of the coupling.
Usually the splines in the centre diff wear and jam but maybe in your case they have jammed in the VC.
Get a bigger hammer.
Regards Philip A

Even if the splines were worn I wouldn't have thought that would affect the removal of the casing?

Gary

[superquag]

HI

One of these may help

Land Rover Prop Shaft NUT Tool 1 2" Drive DA1119 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Land-Rover-Prop-Shaft-Nut-Tool-1-2-Drive-DA1119-/400403578301?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item5d39e9bdbd)

Steve

Are these a particularly thin-wall socket ? - Or shaped differantly?

Either way, it certainly pays to buy top-notch tools when/where you can.

Just nipped out and tried my 14mm spanners on the rear shaft uni joint nuts... both rings fit nice and tight, but neither open end will go on.
The 9/16 works both ends, but pretty loose.

That's what I used when I took of my front prop shaft. (Still buried in the boot)

'95 Classic Vogue SE with working air suspension...and RWD only.

[superquag]

I've got a spare BW cbox lying around... when I checked it, the front VC carrier thingy came off pretty easily. No Brute Force & Ignorance required... Try a bigger hammer or longer levers...

Or, maybe the VC has disintergrated inside itself and bits are jamming the shaft...

EDIT: worst case is.... forgotten to completely undo one bolt... - Don't ask why I suggested that !!!!

[wayneg]

The housing complete with VC should easily slip off the splines so there is something not right in there holding it on

[mtb_gary]

Brute force finally the housing off along with the VC stuck firmly in the housing, no wonder I was struggling! Once out I was able to get the bearing puller in place and separate them. The VC is stuffed and leaking gooey silicone....pics to follow. It looks like the silicone is only in the area immediately around the VC and not in the rest of the box. All the oil drained out clean :). As for the replacement Ashcrofts are about to get my order £295 + shipping. Hopefully the reassembly will be less arduous than the removal!

Thank you all for your support!!!

Gary

[superquag]

Have you checked the 'fuse' ? - Output shaft...the one that feeds the rear propshaft and the VC.

May as well look at the chain...:eek::eek::eek:

[mtb_gary]

Have you checked the 'fuse' ? - Output shaft...the one that feeds the rear propshaft and the VC.

May as well look at the chain...:eek::eek::eek:

Output shaft looks fine, chain inspection....maybe tomorrow

Gary

[PhilipA]

Output shaft looks fine, chain inspection....maybe tomorrow


You cannot tell from the front as the splines in the centre of the diff just wear to nothing but you cannot see it unless you take off the rear housing, however for some reason this seems to happen on Classics , but the chain seems to wear on 38As instead. Give me the shaft failing any time.

Regards Philip A

[PeterH]

Oops, sorry, meant to start a new thread!

[mtb_gary]

A couple of pics...

66458
Jammed into the housing ready to be extracted

66459
An exploded Viscous Coupling....I think this is where the problem began. A new one is now on order.

Gary

[superquag]

Lucky it leaked... Ashcroft used to grind them open as part of the re-con process. - but after the odd one exploded with enough force to travel the workshop they gave it away!

They normally fail in the 100% locked mode, so yours is a rarity. :p

[benji]

Certainly is, it's only the third I've heard of.
So the silicon did it's job then, but the weld just wasn't up to it. There must be an amazing amount of pressure in those things!

How did you end up getting the vc off?

Just imagine how capable it's going to be in 4wd....:angel:

[mtb_gary]

Lucky it leaked... Ashcroft used to grind them open as part of the re-con process. - but after the odd one exploded with enough force to travel the workshop they gave it away!

They normally fail in the 100% locked mode, so yours is a rarity. :p

I reckon if you has some high speed photography happening when it exploded you could pass it off as a UFO .

Gary

[mtb_gary]

Certainly is, it's only the third I've heard of.
So the silicon did it's job then, but the weld just wasn't up to it. There must be an amazing amount of pressure in those things!

How did you end up getting the vc off?

Just imagine how capable it's going to be in 4wd....:angel:

Benji

The VC came off still jammed inside the housing. Kinda explains why I was having trouble removing the housing. After breaking the initial seal by rotating the housing the first 5mm or so was achieved with some hammer work along with a block of wood. After that it was about an hour of levering with 2 broad blade screw drivers. Once the VC and the housing were off I just used the puller to separate them. I think I spent the majority of yesterday laying on my back under a car :(. The new VC is on order and with a bit of luck may even arrive on Friday, then I can spend another day under the car reassembling :D. I'm also going to replace the nylock nuts on the prop shaft with some new ones.

Gary

[superquag]

Gosh, If I'd known how enthusiastic you were, I'd have brought mine up for you to practice on ! p:p:p

Philip's suggestion is a good one... Failure of the splines is instant, NO warning at all. I think the chain stretches and rattles around a bit before it takes chunks out of the casing.

Keep us posted. :D

[superquag]

Certainly is, it's only the third I've heard of.
So the silicon did it's job then, but the weld just wasn't up to it. There must be an amazing amount of pressure in those things!

How did you end up getting the vc off?

Just imagine how capable it's going to be in 4wd....:angel:

There is. That's how they work, simple pressure & shearing resistance against the interleaving plates.
Ashcroft tells me that the bits did'nt just travel the length of the workshop... Last one was a flat trajectory and made a huge dent in the wall.

The noise was appropriate to the force released...:eek:

[mtb_gary]

Gosh, If I'd known how enthusiastic you were, I'd have brought mine up for you to practice on ! p:p:p

Philip's suggestion is a good one... Failure of the splines is instant, NO warning at all. I think the chain stretches and rattles around a bit before it takes chunks out of the casing.

Keep us posted. :D

I think I'll leave them be for now, there has been no chain rattle and fingers crossed the splines are still OK. I've spent enough time and $$$ on the project so far. I just want it back on the road to head off road and to tow the boat for some fishing and water skiing :D.

Gary

[wayneg]

I am most impressed with the destruction of the VC, I have never heard of one splitting before. Due to the circumstances of the failure maybe you should get it mounted and offer it up as a trophy for the best placed VC driven car in the W4 challenge

[mtb_gary]

I am most impressed with the destruction of the VC, I have never heard of one splitting before. Due to the circumstances of the failure maybe you should get it mounted and offer it up as a trophy for the best placed VC driven car in the W4 challenge

Good idea :D. It will be interesting to see where we all finished.

Gary

[superquag]

Good idea :D. It will be interesting to see where we all finished.

Gary

'Finishing' should be reward in itself... for a Land Rover....:wasntme:

Would be equally instructive to see how 100% standard cars are placed in such competitions... No TruTracs, diff locks, huge tyres or lifts... - even down to original type and size tyres/rims...:eek:

[mtb_gary]

Decision time now with respect to fluid choice in the Transfer Case.

The manual recommends ATF Dexron III, however, I notice there are a few posts around recommending Agrifluid 45 (where do you get it?). and also MobilFluid 424 or Castrol Agri AS ATF. Pros and Cons for each? Not one negative comment after being used for any of them? Many claims of reduced whining etc, but would this have been reduced just by an oil change to the ATF Dexron III. I do not have any problematic whines coming from the TC. A few too many wines from the cellar (but that's another story ;)).

At this stage I am swaying towards ATF Dexron III.....?

Gary

[Hoges]

If there's no issue re. T/F case noise then go with Dex III. I started using Mobil AgriFluid several yrs ago because of a growing whining noise. Then again, SWMBO reckons I've got selective hearing:angel: a refill with DexIII hadn't made much, if any improvement ...but the noise was reduced significantly with the Agrifluid. I don't put up many Km per year (<10k)...

[PhilipA]

Just be aware that there is an oil pump in the BW and you can break it if you put too thick oil in it.
The BW chain drive transfer is in millions of vehicles in various guises and I spent hours on Google trying to find if there were any better oils , after my output shaft went.
I couldn't find any worthwhile discussion anywhere.
One thing I know doesn't work is Molybidnum Disulphide as when I pulled off the rear extension it was coated all over the inside of the housing with none on the shaft.LOL

[superquag]

... May as well ask....

Is there any advantage (over normal, mineral based Dex III) in a 'synthetic' version? Or 'semi-synth' ?

In the auto trans?
BW transfer case ?

[PhilipA]

Mine had Castrol Synthetic Transmax Z from about 80KK or so and changed about every 20KK. ( plus Nulon at times and plus Moly at times)

Rear output shaft almost completely gone at 200KK.

I reckon it was the most pampered BW on earth, although it did 200 Ks once with almost no oil in it when a reasonably well known specialist "forgot" to refill it after the V8 rear main seal and front pump gasket on the ZF were replaced. But I doubt if that caused it.

Regards Philip A

[TheTree]

Hi,

I finished up with the Castrol version Agri AS Trans Plus (http://www.castrol.com/castrol/productdetailmin.do?categoryId=9011900&contentId=7022413)

To be honest I am not sure it reduced the noise much, but then I suspect my main whine is my rear diff

Steve

[mtb_gary]

The new VC arrived today, ordered on Monday from Ashcroft - yep I'm impressed! So back under the car I went and it is now all back together, it just needs a drink of Castrol ATF Dex 111. I was all set tonight to finish the job but the hand pump looks like it's dried out and no longer pumps.....bugger :mad:.

Benji, I now know what you were referring to when you were asking is there any resistance when trying to rotate a front wheel ;)!

So tomorrow all going well, I'll be back on and off the road again woo hoo! :D

Gary

[Keithy P38]

Great work! That was mad quick turnaround time from Ashcroft!

[Hoges]

Well done indeed.:D FWIW: A $10 rotary pump on the end of a small cordless drill does an excellent job of transferring oil into diffs /transmissions etc. Easier to handle as well;)

[benji]

Last week I picked a little pump type bottle called a tom thumb from stupid cheap auto, works a treat.

[Keithy P38]

Have you ever made a pump out of compressed air and a length of hose?

1 - make a fitting to the cap of your desired fluid to accept your discharge hose, and also to accept a compressed air feed of some sort (a tyre valve without the innards is good).

2 - feed your discharge hose into the bottle so that it sits pretty much on the bottom.

3 - ever so gently apply compressed air to the bottle.

Job done. You only need basic tools to make it. Be gentle on the compressed air otherwise you'll pop the container and get oil everywhere.

Cheers
Keithy

[mtb_gary]

Mission accomplished......it's back on the road. :banana::banana::banana:Now all I have to do is give it a good clean to get the red dirt off it from the W4 comp and swap back the road wheels back on again for towing the boat.
SWMBO returns home on Sunday after a couple of weeks back in Melbourne, the timing from that aspect was perfect!

Gary

[benji]

Be gentle on the compressed air otherwise you'll pop the container and get oil everywhere.

Lol, when you said compressed air I immediately thought of 3 phase compressor, the potential is very humerous.

Great to hear it's on the road!

[mtb_gary]

Be gentle on the compressed air otherwise you'll pop the container and get oil everywhere.

Lol, when you said compressed air I immediately thought of 3 phase compressor, the potential is very humerous.

Great to hear it's on the road!
I can just picture the spray painting of everything around including the operator with a layer of transmission fluid. I'm sure it would be a hit on YouTube!

Gary