My insurer says won't pay for some of Roo damage

[Brid]

I hit a full grown male roo head on at, around 100kph, in my Puma. The bull bar got a small bend, and the spotlights pushed back through the grill, so not much damage really, despite the big hit.

However, some other damage also occurred, which my insurer tells me they don't see as being related and won't cover...

1. The radio ejected out of the dash, and was hanging by the wires, as an immediate consequence of the hit...never happened before in the Puma's 240,000 km life. The insurer says it couldn't have been installed correctly!!! Never-the-less it happened before my eyes, and I can only assume it must have been some sort of recoil effect.

2. The air conditioning stopped working. It had been working before the impact, but not after. The insurer doesn't accept this, but says it still is gassed up.

3. The radiator moved up about 10-15mm on the RH side, making it difficult to remove the fan cover. The insurer can see no damage that could have made this move & doesn't accept it as part of the claim. I regularly remove it for maintenance checks, and it's quite obvious that it has moved.

I think the insurer is either trying to weasel out on their cover, or he does not understand what can happen in a vehicle with no crumple zone to absorb the impact, which, in a Defender, carries right through to anything attached to the chassis.

Any comments or experience from others that could help by argument with the insurer would be most welcome please.

Cheers
Brid

[Eevo]

Get a 2nd, 3rd and 4th opinion and show insurance

[Sprint]

Which insurance company?

[superquag]

Which insurance company?

Careful !

Best not to publicly name them here, at this stage... Do it via PM for those who really need to know...

Incisor has already been bitten this year by legal threats.... :o

But I've never had a radio fall out of its mountings, not even in the Passat driving fast over the unsealed Nullabor... Rest of the car fell apart...but my stereo stayed put.

'Roo? - or hippo standing on its hind legs ?

[Brid]

At this stage, I won't mention their name, as to be fair, I'll give the assessor the benefit of the doubt that he is not as competent as he should be. If they don't do the right thing, I'd be prepared to mention them, so long as it doesn't contravene forum rules.

Also, the Puma is with their repairer. I need it fixed ASAP, so I'm just after any experience of seemingly unrelated damage due to the impact energy being transmitted along the chassis to parts remote from the point of impact.

Any engineers out there who could comment with authority (even in general terms)?

[Eevo]

I need it fixed ASAP
they got you by the balls.

[isuzurover]

Have you spoken to the repairer - what do they think? Have they removed the grill and inspected the front panel closely?

It is certainly possible for the force of impact to damage other items. Either the insurance are being bastards or they think are trying to get a bunch of other faults fixed for free (which many people probably do unfortunately).

They may have a point on the radio, however it was still damaged as a direct result of the accident.

If the spotlights were pushed back through the grill, it could easily have moved the rad support back.

AC - piping damage or dislodged AC connector?


Repairers usually have to wait 3-6 months to get their cash from the insurer, the easiest path may just be to see how much $$$ they want to fix the other items while they are on the job.

It is unfortunately possible that LR may not have tightened some fixings properly...

[Brid]

I have spoken to an engineer, who calculates that hitting a 65kg roo at 100kph in a vehicle with no energy absorbing crumple zone will certainly release enough energy through the chassis, body, etc to cause damage to items remote from the point of impact.

The bulk of the energy is absorbed in the crumple zone (where fitted), causing significant damage there, and lowering the chances of damage remote from the point of impact. I'm looking forward to a written statement. And hopefully the assessor can then appreciate the facts. If not, I'll know they are just trying to weasel their way out of their obligations.

[jplambs]

I had a side impact from a roo in the puma, took out the airflow sensor I've a foot from any damaged components. No referred damage from frontal impact as yet.

[newhue]

Good luck with it Brid, sound like a battle you don't need.
What type or brand of bull bar did you have. Sounds like it didn't crush back onto the grill.

[gusthedog]

Stand your ground and demand that the work is done properly. I have a friend that worked at a major insurance company and lesson 1 on her first day was give people the run around as much as you can so that they give up. It's a cost saving method. Most people when attacked like you have been give up as they can't be bothered. Stick to your guns and they'll eventually come around. Ask to speak with the insurance inspectors manager and take it from there.

A big insurer tried this on with me and I proved more stubborn. It took 16 weeks for me to finally get a cheque but I got the $ in the end. ;) I did have to ride my motorcycle every day for those 16 weeks though, right through the dead of winter. Maybe I didn't totally win then :D

[Brid]

Thanks jplambs
A foot away from the damage,eh?

It's an ARB steel bar, Jason. It's had quite a few roo strikes over the years, and has protected the Puma well.

Well done, gusthedog. glad you had a win.
Brid

[uninformed]

I guess they dont want to pay it out as most roos dont have insurance, not even 3rd party the buggers. This means your insurance company actually has to pay it rather than chase it from another source....

[clubagreenie]

I am Insured with AAMI and hit a roo last summer. They couldn't have been better about it. Find the assessment centre for your insurer, they actually do the inspections. If they only get the quote to base the approval on and don't get to see it they usually deny a lot of "Additionals" until the car is dismantled and they get an extra claim frm the repairer for the hidden damage.

Mine was drivable and so went to the assessors, they checked it and approved the quote and the work at a non-standard repairer. The total was just over $7000-, then the first time I went to use the winch it was stuffed and found that the "electrician" who did the contract work on it despite having a list of instructions was a complete tool and burnt out the winch. Another $2500- payout. The mechanical whatever who refilled the auto didn't. Result, auto failure about 200k's later, result $4800- paid out.

Basically is it wasn't damage before the accident, they have to fix it. If it's damaged as a result of workmanship, claim on your insurance and they chase the shop/supplier for their insurance.

PM Me your insurance co name, I'll probably have an assessor contact for them. Oddly enough, one of the assessors I met used to work on the D2 line back when mine was built, he check it out and his sign off marks are throughout. From there it was a case of "well we can't let this'un go now can we".

[rangieman]

I had something very similar years ago with AAMI , I just got a couple of specialist,s inderpendant written reports = I won . Good luck Oh im still with AAMI and still happy with their service

[Trundle]

I agree. My repairer found the chassis was twisted from an earlier botched repair job, refused to release it unless it was fixed and they argued it with the insurance company on the grounds that they couldn't release an unsafe vehicle back to me. End result, car fixed better than it was before, no additional costs to me.

[Sitec]

Stick to your guns until they rectify the issues! I'd be interested (via PM) to know who your insurer is just in case I'm with them... :)

[Brid]

I've asked the insurer to provide me the contact details for the assessor, but since this hasn't happened yet, I've emailed attention: the Claims manager. I advised him of the assessor's comments to me, and told him I found them totally offensive, as I was there when the damage occurred.

I suggested they were either...

1. directly dodging their obligations under the policy, or
2. the assessor has no experience with full chassis (non-crumple zone) vehicles, but is relying on his experience with modern impact absorbing technology

I informed them that I have a written engineer's comments quantifying the impact forces hitting a 65kg roo at 100kph, and confirming the likelihood of damage remote from the point of impact, in this type of vehicle.

I've given them 2 days to resolve, or I'll assume point 1, and contact the ACCC. Hopefully, I'll get the right result, and get the Puma back into service.

[460cixy]

Sounds like your a bit un lucky or I'm very lucky normaly cleaning up a roo every few weeks at 100+ only damage so far a bent drag link . Good luck geting it sorted

[RVR110]

I advised him of the assessor's comments to me, and told him I found them totally offensive, as I was there when the damage occurred.
No matter how offensive you found it, don't mention it. As best you can remove emotion and stick to the facts such as "the air conditioning was working before the impact, but not after".

Also talk to the insurance ombudsman. You may find that quoting a reference number from the ombudsman delivers results that you might not otherwise get.

[POD]

This reminds me of the plot in a John Grisham novel- can't remember which one it was- where a health insurance company institutes a secret policy for 12 months of saying 'no' to a random 50% of all claims. The vast majority of those customers accept the refusal and the company has 50% less claims to pay.
I bet they have never had any qualms about accepting your premiums. Stick to your guns, this is what you've been paying them all that hard-earned money for.

[Brid]

I gave them a deadline of a day and a half, which finished at 4pm yesterday, before I involved ACCC. The assessor contacted me at 3:55pm. I think they might cover the damage properly.

[shining]

"The Rainmaker" Matt Damon and Danny Davito

[alittlebitconcerned]

No matter how offensive you found it, don't mention it. As best you can remove emotion and stick to the facts such as "the air conditioning was working before the impact, but not after".

Also talk to the insurance ombudsman. You may find that quoting a reference number from the ombudsman delivers results that you might not otherwise get.

This is very good advice in my opinion.
I've been down this path a couple of times with insurance companies. Both times my success in getting paid is I believe due to keeping it business (zero emotion) and getting the insurance ombudsman involved if the insurer balks.

[Bigbjorn]

This is very good advice in my opinion.
I've been down this path a couple of times with insurance companies. Both times my success in getting paid is I believe due to keeping it business (zero emotion) and getting the insurance ombudsman involved if the insurer balks.

I had a dispute over a written off classic Torana. The insurance ombudsman eventually got the company's initial offer trebled. They wanted to pay for a 32 y.o heap of **** not a one owner low mileage original. I still reckon I only got half what it was worth.

I did have to apologise to an assessor for calling him a failed bog spreader who couldn't make an honest living as a tradesman and had to become an asswipe for insurance thieves. There were a few extra expletives in there somewhere.

[Brid]

It's now 7 months after the roo hit, and it's been quite a saga to get all the damage fixed by the insurer. They refused to fix the air conditioning and re-alignment of the radiator & support panel in particular...as there was "no trail of damage leading to these parts". I provided an engineers letter at their request to confirm the damage, but they took no heed of this, and said I needed to have the air conditioning inspected by an AC specialist, so I had it fixed there & they confirmed that the fan could have overloaded under impact & gas leak could also occur. The insurer has agreed to recompense.

They still refused to re-align the radiator, so after involving the Ombudsman, they agreed to cover the costs and repairs, if verified by Land Rover. Land Rover people looked at it and readily concluded "Of course it was!!" They suggested chassis movement should be checked. Now the insurers cooperate and tow it to a prestige chassis company, who had it 3-4 days, concluding the chassis was straight. It is probably panel movement!!?? I had a trip to the High Country planned, so postponed that till after.

It was tilt trayed to House of Rover yesterday and all re-aligned now, so will have another tilt tray ride back tomorrow, at the insurer's cost (that'll be a total of 8 tilt tray rides).

All that remains then is to get payment for my AC costs reimbursed and we're done...wish I could recover all the time I've spent on this.

[clubagreenie]

Send them an invoice for your time. Worked for me.

Mine still isn't fully back together. still waiting for A/c, auto cooler, ACE leak. I CC'd the insurer into the emails to the assessor and 5min later they called as he hadn't responded to 5 emails. Apparently an assessor would call back by 1500hrs, that was a week ago. So I sent them an invoice for retail pricing plus full Land Rover Labour costs at workshop manual times for EVERYTHING I could establish that was related and added a new engine in as well as my time @ $75/hr. So far they coughed up for my time, all parts and labour and when I have the engine assessed as having the liners moved a new Turners engine.

[scarry]

Hope it gets sorted,i feel your pain.

My sons Puma was hit up the rear,by his mate in his brand new Colorado.Colorado was a tow job.Repair almost 6K.

Anyway the Puma went to the assessor,the quote was $1800.
There was no way it could be repaired for that sort of money.
Then the fun started........:(

Eventually with assistance from the insurance company the Puma was insured with it was taken to the panel shop at Eagle Farm,that do many LR's,their quote well over $3K.

So that is where it is going next week,the insurance company has accepted the second higher quote,and will sort it out with the other insurance company themselves.