Proposal to cut wages on Labor Day long weekend!

[frantic]

Business groups plan to lobby State and Federal Governments to remove penalty rates in some industries | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/national-news/queensland/business-groups-plan-to-lobby-state-and-federal-governments-to-remove-penalty-rates-in-some-industries/story-fnii5v6w-1226733216789)

IMHO it's pure greed to try and cut weekend penalty rates for those already most easily exploited.
Also if your margin in a small business is so small that $15-22per hour would be the difference in profit or loss , maybe it's time to examine the shops products and competition.
As for larger businesses , where will the extra profit go from a chain with 100+ people working the weekend at numerous shops, whereas now currently where does the money that is paid to those 100 students, backpackers, 2nd job locals go?;)

[Mick_Marsh]

Simple.
If you don't want to pay penalty rates, don't open the shop.

[mikehzz]

It wouldn't have anything to do with having Liberal governments in both state and federal.....would it?

[CraigE]

I 100% agree with the above statements, but also if you want the convenience of shopping late at night, on weekends and public holidays then as a consumer you should also be prepared to pay more to shop on these days, especially to businesses that have traditionally been closed on these days and may have profit margins based on this.

[ATH]

Not opening on Sundays or long weekends is the last thing big shopping centres want as it doesn't look good if most other shops are open. I suspect there are clauses in all leases which they'll use to bring pressure on retailers for not opening when allowed by regulation.
Shopping centres look busy on Sundays but are they really taking extra money every week from when there was only 6 day trading in WA?
And for those seeing a Lib conspiracy to down the poor old worker, don't forget there's many on the other side of politics who shout one thing and have no qualms at all about screwing their own employees when there's a dollar to be had.:mad:
AlanH.

[Mick_Marsh]

This debate has been raging under many different state and federal governments. It's not a new argument.
Might I suggest, if you want this debate to continue to rage here, remember, keep politics out of it.

[frantic]

Ditto, as far as I know the Qld chamber that proposed this is not party backed, so don't dwell on the past evils just the proposed future ones;)

[bob10]

Ah, yes, the old tryon. Some business leaders will not be happy until the basic wage is $7.50 an hour, like the USA. Restaurants have been pushing for the removal of long weekend, indeed weekend ,penalty rates for years. Be interesting to see if they would contemplate the removal of the 15 % loading on those days. ;) Bob

[Slunnie]

This debate has been raging under many different state and federal governments. It's not a new argument.
Might I suggest, if you want this debate to continue to rage here, remember, keep politics out of it.

The fundamentals of this is based in politics, especially when they make the legislation and there is one major parties basic philosophy to support business for the owners, and the other major parties basic philosophy to support business for the employees.

[lewy]

seems that "they?" are attacking the people who can least afford to loose penalty rates the shop workers,cleaners etc.Our local fish and chip shop put 15% surcharge on public holidays and pass the wages on to their workers.I don't have a problem with that.

[Reads90]

You lot Are funny


You want shops open all hours

You want everyone in retail to be paid every penalty rate

BUT. you all moan how much more stuff is in shop rather than the Internet.


Come on you lot work it out.

[Mick_Marsh]

On the rare occasion I am asked to work on weekends, I don't get penalty rates but, I am quite well paid for the forty hours I work Monday to Friday.
For those in lower paid positions, penalty rates are quite important to the family budget.
Some only have weekend hours.

It wouldn't bother me if businesses closed Saturday afternoons, Sundays and public holidays but, they are open because there is money to be made on those days.

[Slunnie]

I agree, convert all shops to internet shops and then I can never be forced to go into another shop!

[Eevo]

It's called Labor Day for a reason. Cause it's not liberal day.

[Mick_Marsh]

Mr Eevo.
It is Labour Day (Eight Hours Day), not Labor day.
I suggest you get your Whirlpool friends to explain it to you.

[Reads90]

seems that "they?" are attacking the people who can least afford to loose penalty rates the shop workers,cleaners etc.Our local fish and chip shop put 15% surcharge on public holidays and pass the wages on to their workers.I don't have a problem with that.

Interesting one is day care

I have to pay full wack for my kids to be there to
Tomorrow but there not because it is closed. But I still have to pay $75 a day for each of them even though they at home with me.

And the girls working in the day care who look after my kids , don't get paid for public holidays at all. So that 100% pure profit for the daycare center tomorrow. That pretty standard around the country in day care.

[Hall]

This latest idea of removing penalty rate was mentioned by Abbot just after the election date was set. It was at a winery in South Australia. His minders soon shut him up as it was also noted that spruking this idea could be a losing factor in the election. In that speech Abbot also noted that not only hospitality and tourism based industry penalty rates should go but all penalty rates should go. Hence why his minders gagged him on this subject. Abbot has been a disciple of Howard and his industrial policy's and will implement them as soon as he can.
Cheers Hall

[robbotd5]

I would not work on a public Holliday for anything less than triple time. The way it should be. The way our union forefathers fought for. If you want to open a business on a PH (other than essential services, who should be paid penalty rates, and 24hr operations) you should have the right to charge a Premium to pay for the workers that are giving up their PH. It's not the end of the world just because the shops are shut.
Regards
Robbo

[Firefish]

I would not work on a public Holliday for anything less than triple time.


you should have the right to charge a Premium to pay for the workers that are giving up their PH.

What's the difference between "giving up" a Public Holiday and "giving up" any other day of your life to go to work?
Don't like penalty rates. Never have. Never will. Have worked jobs with seven day rosters and no penalty rates. No-one cared what day of the week it was. Everyone got paid the same amount for doing the same work; the way it should be.
Now I have staff that fight for the weekend shifts just to get paid double for the same work. And managers on 5-day rosters who want to swap weekdays for weekends. Claim they want to work weekends because they are "more productive", and its not about the penalty rates. I have a bridge I can sell anyone who believes that.

[Hall]

It`s not just public holiday rates that will go. It is all penalty rates. No shift loading and no over time of any sort. So there will be no incentive to work any longer than enough to get by on. So the only way company's will be able to get workers to work longer hours is to drive wages down. Which is another part of the Howard/ Abbot industrial reform plan. Achieved by abolishing award wages and introducing individual bargaining of your wage and conditions of work as in tea, coffee, clothing hours of work etc You will have to haggle for ever condition that you now have as a right through the awards.
Cheers Hall

[redrovertdi]

My last job as an employee[9 years ago] i was on a work place agreement, i negotiated my hourly rate and the paperwork was sent off for approval and it worked out well for me[$9 more per hour than the award], now i work for myself and im working tomorrow[labour day] and im not charging more im just grateful to have the work:)

[uninformed]

IMO penalty rates etc, should only be payed to those who are already doing a 38hr+ week in said job.

im sure that will open a can of worms

[Chucaro]

This debate has been raging under many different state and federal governments. It's not a new argument.
Might I suggest, if you want this debate to continue to rage here, remember, keep politics out of it.

Note that Chucaro do not have nothing to do here other ways Phil will have something to say about it :D

[Reads90]

It`s not just public holiday rates that will go. It is all penalty rates. No shift loading and no over time of any sort. So there will be no incentive to work any longer than enough to get by on. So the only way company's will be able to get workers to work longer hours is to drive wages down. Which is another part of the Howard/ Abbot industrial reform plan. Achieved by abolishing award wages and introducing individual bargaining of your wage and conditions of work as in tea, coffee, clothing hours of work etc You will have to haggle for ever condition that you now have as a right through the awards.
Cheers Hall

I don't agree, the whole point of liberals is for people to work hard and earn money and make better lives for themselves. So they want people to work long for more money.



I don't understand why in this country and to my knowledge the only one I have heard off . That pays you more when you are on holiday and away from work than when you are at work.

In my mind that is mad.

[Firefish]

It`s not just public holiday rates that will go. It is all penalty rates. No shift loading and no over time of any sort. So there will be no incentive to work any longer than enough to get by on. So the only way company's will be able to get workers to work longer hours is to drive wages down.

The two biggest things that drive wages down are increased costs (such as penalties) and decreased productivity. Do you think that shift loading, overtime, sick leave, maternity leave, stress leave, family responsibility leave and so on is just free money? All this B/S that results in some workers being paid extra to do the same work, or others still receiving pay for not actually working, simply reduces base wages. The other thing these factors drive down is the number of employers willing to put on more employees.

Of course feel free to keep contributing to the unions to ensure your employee provided tea and biscuits are kept well stocked.

[Mick_Marsh]

I don't understand why in this country and to my knowledge the only one I have heard off . That pays you more when you are on holiday and away from work than when you are at work.

In my mind that is mad.
You are looking at it wrong. Look at it from the perspective of a salary package. You are paid $1,000,000 per year. It is divided up over the year in such a way that the proportion per hour is greater whilst you are on leave.
I am paid in such a way that I don't receive payment whilst I'm on holiday. I've already received the holiday pay throughout the year.
More money in my pocket. I generally don't take holidays.

[Reads90]

You are looking at it wrong. Look at it from the perspective of a salary package. You are paid $1,000,000 per year. It is divided up over the year in such a way that the proportion per hour is greater whilst you are on leave.


What! Don't get that.

I don't get leave loading

I get my yearly wage which is worked on 5 days a week 8 hours a day with 4 weeks holiday so I get the same wage the week I work as the week I am on holiday.

What I am saying is why should employer pay an extra 17.5% to you when you not there.

[robbotd5]

What's the difference between "giving up" a Public Holiday and "giving up" any other day of your life to go to work?
Don't like penalty rates. Never have. Never will. Have worked jobs with seven day rosters and no penalty rates. No-one cared what day of the week it was. Everyone got paid the same amount for doing the same work; the way it should be.
Now I have staff that fight for the weekend shifts just to get paid double for the same work. And managers on 5-day rosters who want to swap weekdays for weekends. Claim they want to work weekends because they are "more productive", and its not about the penalty rates. I have a bridge I can sell anyone who believes that.

Spoken like a true staffy. Or boss in lamans. I'm contracted to work 40hrs a week and any more than that it's penalty rates and O/T. Or should I sacrifice my way of life for a bowl of rice?. I'm all for local business but pay your staff accordingly.

Regards
Robbo

[Firefish]

What! Don't get that.

I don't get leave loading

I get my yearly wage which is worked on 5 days a week 8 hours a day with 4 weeks holiday so I get the same wage the week I work as the week I am on holiday.

What I am saying is why should employer pay an extra 17.5% to you when you not there.

One of the justifications is that it is an allowance to cover the overtime and penalties you would have earned, had you actually have been at work and not on leave. The other explanation I've seen is that the loading is a bonus to help with extra holiday expenses.

Of course I don't necessarily agree with leave loading ;) ... Just sayin'

[Reads90]

One of the justifications is that it is an allowance to cover the overtime and penalties you would have earned, had you actually have been at work and not on leave. The other explanation I've seen is that the loading is a bonus to help with extra holiday expenses.

Of course I don't necessarily agree with leave loading ;) ... Just sayin'

Ahh ok so because an employee can't save for a holiday the employer has help to pay for extra expenses for you.

Ok

As a pom , Let me guess a Union idea and directive.

[Mick_Marsh]

What! Don't get that. I thought that sounded a bit low too.

What I am saying is why should employer pay an extra 17.5% to you when you not there.
My employer doesn't. Doesn't even pay me when I'm not there.
It is included in the hourly rate. I don't find life financially a struggle but......,
I have met many in retail who do and rely on penalty rates to be able to pay the rent and utilities. I agree you and I shouldn't be paid whilst we're not there but I see no reason for taking anything away from the low paid workers and not giving anything to compensate for the reduction in income.

I trust you will be giving your holiday pay back to your employer advising him you don't deserve it. I don't get paid whilst I'm on holidays.

[bob10]

It's all academic, soon we will be a Nation of casual workers, no overtime, no penalty rates [ already happening in the Post Office] except for those in management who are prepared to sell their soul to their corporate bosses. How many out there are actually working extra hours for nothing, sucking up in the hope of getting on the band wagon. Bob

[robbotd5]

It's all academic, soon we will be a Nation of casual workers, no overtime, no penalty rates [ already happening in the Post Office] except for those in management who are prepared to sell their soul to their corporate bosses. How many out there are actually working extra hours for nothing, sucking up in the hope of getting on the band wagon. Bob

Only if we let 'em:twisted::twisted: it's a democracy after all??
Regards
Robbo

[Firefish]

It's all academic, soon we will be a Nation of casual workers, no overtime, no penalty rates [ already happening in the Post Office] except for those in management who are prepared to sell their soul to their corporate bosses. How many out there are actually working extra hours for nothing, sucking up in the hope of getting on the band wagon. Bob

Nah, just enough casuals to cover week to week variations in staffing requirements. The permanents can still have their contracted 40 hours a week.

[bob10]

Only if we let 'em:twisted::twisted: it's a democracy after all??
Regards
Robbo

Sure is, that's why we have those nasty Unions, the thugs :D Bob

[bob10]

The permanents can still have their contracted 40 hours a week.

For how long? When the permanent worker leaves, a casual takes his place. Soon, no permanents. Only a matter of time. Bob

[ian4002000]

I am still waiting for management to take a big pay cut, and work without a bonus.
I dont think this will be happening any time soon.
I worked in Australias largest manufacturer 3 years ago, when the company lost over a billion dollars in one year and the boss still wanted his million plus bonus.....

Remember retail has a lot of our children working in it.
One of my local supermarkets is such a scab the poor kids are booked to work 3 3/4 hour per shift, coz if they book 4 hours a shift the kids have to get a teabreak.

[Slunnie]

A workforce of casuals that don't have to turn up on a beautiful sunny day, throw sickies for as long as they like without notice, long weekends, take better jobs when they come along. Business and workforce have an equal commitment to each other. I guess you could replace a casual with another casual.

[Mick_Marsh]

A workforce of casuals that don't have to turn up on a beautiful sunny day, throw sickies for as long as they like without notice, long weekends, take better jobs when they come along. Business and workforce have an equal commitment to each other. I guess you could replace a casual with another casual.
Unless it's a nice sunny day. Then you'll have to pay penalty rates to encourage some to turn up.

[Firefish]

For how long? When the permanent worker leaves, a casual takes his place. Soon, no permanents. Only a matter of time. Bob

Well I guess it is up to individual businesses and their requirements. Some staff like the security of being permanent; others like the flexibility of being casual. I find having a combination of both staff types helpful, combining fixed base-load staffing with flexibility particularly when covering leave and busy periods. All casuals is a bit of a pain (in part for reasons mentioned in posts above) couldn't see many going down this path.

There's alway going to be issues with allocating shifts, but as I've mentioned, I find weekend penalties the most unfair. Why should a worker who is only available on weekends get paid double what their co-workers do, or alternatively not be offered work at all because weekends are already spoken for?

[Mick_Marsh]

Some staff like the security of being permanent;
The difference between secure staff job and being unemployed is usually about two weeks.
What sort of security is that?

[Slunnie]

The difference between secure staff job and being unemployed is usually about two weeks.
What sort of security is that?

The difference should be the application of due process.

[mikehzz]

It's all academic, soon we will be a Nation of casual workers, no overtime, no penalty rates [ already happening in the Post Office] except for those in management who are prepared to sell their soul to their corporate bosses. How many out there are actually working extra hours for nothing, sucking up in the hope of getting on the band wagon. Bob

They want to sell Australia Post don't they?

[Mick_Marsh]

The difference should be the application of due process.
Yep. Two weeks.

[frantic]

What's the difference between "giving up" a Public Holiday and "giving up" any other day of your life to go to work?
Don't like penalty rates. Never have. Never will. Have worked jobs with seven day rosters and no penalty rates. No-one cared what day of the week it was. Everyone got paid the same amount for doing the same work; the way it should be.
Now I have staff that fight for the weekend shifts just to get paid double for the same work. And managers on 5-day rosters who want to swap weekdays for weekends. Claim they want to work weekends because they are "more productive", and its not about the penalty rates. I have a bridge I can sell anyone who believes that.

Less than 10% of people do shiftwork so your trying to say there is no difference between being Home at the same time as all your friends family and children or sitting at home alone or asleep after a nightshift whilst your family is at school and friends at work?
Now your going to have us believe your 7 day job was at the flat base rate or did it maybe include all allowances into a single rate;)
As to being more productive On a weekend or backshift, ITS TRUE! No need to have a meeting or act as a tour guide to a manager from another dept. No urgent email or other non core b.s pure focus on the job and production.
As to allocation of weekends and extra shifts, it depends on both your and your workers priorities. I've worked with blokes who did 16hr days over Christmas so would cover any overtime without the need for casuals and others who would leave exactly On time and never work a min extra as they wanted to spend the weekend or public holiday with their friends and family. A lot of eba's have a callout procedure as well as an overtime system so there are no arguments. Most usually offer the permanents first then the casuals.

[Eevo]

Mr Eevo.
It is Labour Day (Eight Hours Day), not Labor day.

yes, i was making a pun.
then since you're a mod, i suggest you change the thread title :)

[Firefish]

Now your going to have us believe your 7 day job was at the flat base rate or did it maybe include all allowances into a single rate;)

Yep, flat rate. Industry award. No weekend penalties. Overtime all accrued. Managers got an arse kicking if there was any overtime at all paid out at the end of the pay cycle.


As to being more productive On a weekend or backshift, ITS TRUE! No need to have a meeting or act as a tour guide to a manager from another dept. No urgent email or other non core b.s pure focus on the job and production.

Well, yes, perhaps. Unless a core part of your job it to work with the rest of a team that does Monday to Friday. Someone else was always picking up the pieces for the 2 weekdays when the worker was away. Effectively being paid for 7 days after penalties every week, and doing their core job for 3.


As to allocation of weekends and extra shifts, it depends on both your and your workers priorities. I've worked with blokes who did 16hr days over Christmas so would cover any overtime without the need for casuals and others who would leave exactly On time and never work a min extra as they wanted to spend the weekend or public holiday with their friends and family. A lot of eba's have a callout procedure as well as an overtime system so there are no arguments. Most usually offer the permanents first then the casuals.

Agree, and yes everyone has different priorities. Always tried working on an equitable give and take process, however have found some employees (and employers also no doubt) are all take and no give. Seems to be getting worse. Oddly, much as they are criticised, Gen Y workers were some of the most reliable. Maybe just because they came with the least baggage.

[frantic]

So flat rate, not base rate ;) thank you. My "flat rate" is an average of all my weekends etc
If the " core" of your work is teamwork then they should be doing Mon-fri;) but if the core is production it really proves a point that there are to many other non productive activities, agendas and meetings being promoted Mon-Fri.
Finally if your not making money from working shifts or weekend's why are you open then?

[bob10]

They want to sell Australia Post don't they?

No one has actually admitted the fact, but the way the business is being structured seems to be setting it up to sell off portions of it. Slowly, the smaller post offices have been amalgamated into huge delivery centres , delivering mail from a central hub. Surprisingly, this has led to overtime blowing out spectacularly, with finishing times of 5-6 pm the norm. in many areas. The posties I speak to say that was ok for a while, but has become tiresome over time.

When I was working as a postman, we started at 6 am, and were paid penalty rates , it was a condition of service. Now, all new delivery people start after 6.30 am, no penalty rates. The policy of Post is that when old posties , earning penalty rates, leave the job, they will not be re-employed. They are replaced by casuals. Post had one of the best Super schemes around, the APSS, but is not offering that scheme to new employees. here is a extract from the APSS web site;
"
From 1 July 2012, Australia Post and some Associated Employers will no longer be offering Membership of the APSS to new employees. Instead, new employees will be offered super benefits outside the APSS. If you are an existing APSS Member, this decision does not change your existing APSS benefits.

Different benefits apply to:

Permanent Employees (https://www.apss.com.au/npostperm062.asp)
non permanent employees"
The turnover of staff has risen astronomically, 3 to 6 months has been quoted to me by my old workmates. One new postie was said to have worked a week, and walked out the door saying ' I can get more on the dole than working here' . Staff morale is low, junior & middle management , as told to me, are very unhappy, being the meat in the sandwich, so to speak, between upper level management & the workforce. All anecdotal of course . When I joined the Post Office in 1985, it was regarded as one of the best in the World. Posties would go the extra yard in delivery, doing more for the customer [ such as walking up stairs to deliver mail in the hand to the elderly, etc] Now you can count yourself lucky if you get your mail in your letterbox, in some areas. If, for some reason, you got back late, and were the only one on overtime, you didn't claim it . Now you will be lucky to finish before dark, most days. Progress? you tell me. It was in the press that British Post is being put up for sale. Aus. Post will probably follow. How did Aus. Post get to the mess it is in? That is another long story, Bob

[Reads90]

I think they are watching the uk very closely as they are trying to sell the Royal Mail at the moment

[trog]

When and where did the funds and will to employ privately and publically disappear ? And if the average working stiff is expected to do more for less , are the bosses going to take a cut as well ? somehow I doubt the big end of town will pass up on their big bonuses.

[Ralph1Malph]

Couple of points re Aus Post.
Smaller PO are loss making enterprises. My parents own one and are trying to sell it. The best thing we can all do is post a letter. Not email, (no profit in that), no parcels either (parcel delivery couriers make the money on that). Small letter post is dead. Don't try to fight it, it's over. Parcel/freight (due mainly to internet orders) and e-means have killed it.

Case in point. AusPost have a partnership with a certain parcel carrier. The carrier carrys the box on the trunk and distribution backbones ending at a PO where Auspost then delivers door to door. Prob is, the parcel delivery cost has been paid to the parcel courier at lodgement. The Small PO operator is then obligated to deliver (via the partnership) for free. When my parents first bought their PO 25 years ago, it was 10-15 bags of letters for every bag of parcels. Now it's 1-2 bags of letters per day and 6 :eek: landcruisers of parcels. It's not viable.

As for penalty rates. I have mixed views. On the one hand I believe that OT should only be paid after you have done 38 (or however many) hours. This includes public holidays. My solution to paying penalty rates is to close the business on w/e and public holdidays.

Just my thoughts.

Cheers

[bob10]

[QUOTE=Ralph1Malph;2003357

As for penalty rates. I have mixed views. On the one hand I believe that OT should only be paid after you have done 38 (or however many) hours. This includes public holidays.

Just my thoughts.

Cheers[/QUOTE]

Not sure how you could do that. OT is just that, hours worked beyond the normal days work. EG, you work 8hrs 30 min. Monday , any time worked after that is subject to OT rates. & so on during the week. Bob

[Bigbjorn]

Couple of points re Aus Post.
Smaller PO are loss making enterprises. My parents own one and are trying to sell it. The best thing we can all do is post a letter. Not email, (no profit in that), no parcels either (parcel delivery couriers make the money on that). Small letter post is dead. Don't try to fight it, it's over. Parcel/freight (due mainly to internet orders) and e-means have killed it.

Case in point. AusPost have a partnership with a certain parcel carrier. The carrier carrys the box on the trunk and distribution backbones ending at a PO where Auspost then delivers door to door. Prob is, the parcel delivery cost has been paid to the parcel courier at lodgement. The Small PO operator is then obligated to deliver (via the partnership) for free. When my parents first bought their PO 25 years ago, it was 10-15 bags of letters for every bag of parcels. Now it's 1-2 bags of letters per day and 6 :eek: landcruisers of parcels. It's not viable.

As for penalty rates. I have mixed views. On the one hand I believe that OT should only be paid after you have done 38 (or however many) hours. This includes public holidays. My solution to paying penalty rates is to close the business on w/e and public holdidays.

Just my thoughts.

Cheers

Sounds like they were there in the days of Post Agencies when the operators were paid a salary by Australia Post. Post Agents were given the option of changing to an LPO or accepting a surrender package. Licensed Post Offices are a quite different arrangement. LPO's have to generate their own income by sales and commissions. Some are absolute gold mines getting commission on banking, bill paying, Western Union transfers and so on and on. Your parent's shop might be in a bad location. Our local PO is busy all day.

[Davo]

Sounds like they were there in the days of Post Agencies when the operators were paid a salary by Australia Post. Post Agents were given the option of changing to an LPO or accepting a surrender package. Licensed Post Offices are a quite different arrangement. LPO's have to generate their own income by sales and commissions. Some are absolute gold mines getting commission on banking, bill paying, Western Union transfers and so on and on. Your parent's shop might be in a bad location. Our local PO is busy all day.

Ah. That would explain a bit about our LPO, which no doubt makes a fortune.

[303gunner]

Not sure how you could do that. OT is just that, hours worked beyond the normal days work. EG, you work 8hrs 30 min. Monday , any time worked after that is subject to OT rates. & so on during the week. Bob
NSW Police work 10 or 12 hour days, standard working is 4x 10hr shifts in a week, or 3x 12hr shifts in a week.

Coal Mines here have 4 watches or shifts. 2 of them are 5 day M-F jobs, 2 are 12hr Fr+Sat+Sun jobs.

You get your hours in by working less number of longer shifts with no Penalty Rates paid for working longer than 8hrs.

Working 3 12 hr shifts can be draining, but is offset with having 4 days off a week. For some it is a lifestyle choice, for others it presents an opportunity to get a 2nd casual job.

[bob10]

NSW Police work 10 or 12 hour days, standard working is 4x 10hr shifts in a week, or 3x 12hr shifts in a week.

Coal Mines here have 4 watches or shifts. 2 of them are 5 day M-F jobs, 2 are 12hr Fr+Sat+Sun jobs.

You get your hours in by working less number of longer shifts with no Penalty Rates paid for working longer than 8hrs.

Working 3 12 hr shifts can be draining, but is offset with having 4 days off a week. For some it is a lifestyle choice, for others it presents an opportunity to get a 2nd casual job.

Makes sense, what would the hourly rate be? Also, with the police, how difficult is it to have overtime allowed? Bob

[d2dave]

One of the hotels in my town did not open last Labour day(March in Vic) due to the wages bill.

As for the 17% holiday loading, my understanding is that it was introduced to cover the loss of overtime when taking leave.

A lot of workers(applied to me once) used to have regular OT and it just became part of their pay. When taking leave it feels like a pay cut.

The small post office in my town makes a killing out of bill payers etc. They do not deliver any parcels, just a note with the mail telling me there is one to be picked up.

[DiscoMick]

In a previous job we worked ALL public holidays at the normal rate, but got the days added to our annual leave, so we got 6 weeks and 3 days off instead of 4 weeks. Was a very popular system because we could take the days off when we wanted them, in longer blocks.

[d2dave]

In a previous job we worked ALL public holidays at the normal rate, but got the days added to our annual leave, so we got 6 weeks and 3 days off instead of 4 weeks. Was a very popular system because we could take the days off when we wanted them, in longer blocks.

My son is in a similar type job. He works all public holidays and some weekends at normal rate and gets six weeks annual leave.

[frantic]

So in reality working a public holiday where it's single time and one days extra holiday it's really double time ;)and those cops working casual would be getting penalty rates. As to 12 hrs shifts, many places, myself included, do that for better lifestyle. We do 4(2 days 2 nights) on and 4 off with the 38 every 12 week's .

[bob10]

They do not deliver any parcels, just a note with the mail telling me there is one to be picked up.

Unfortunately that is the norm. now. In reality, the postie, or parcel contractor must make an attempt to deliver the parcel, & after finding you not home, leave a card , giving pick up details. Most don't bother to take the time to do this on the day, because it just takes too much time. You're lucky if you get the card the next day, and if it is actually the Post Office & not the Postie/contractor who issues the card, you will have waited about 7 days for your article, because the Post Office keeps it , waiting for you to come in, assuming it was carded correctly. Just on penalty rates, if Restaurants remove penalty rates, does that mean they remove the 15% surcharge charged extra on public holidays? Bob

[Chucaro]

........ Just on penalty rates, if Restaurants remove penalty rates, does that mean they remove the 15% surcharge charged extra on public holidays? Bob

That would be the day :D
It would not surprise me if some greedy bugger come with the proposal to employ boat people for a bowl of rice with the purpose to "help"them to integrate to the Australian way of life :D

[bob10]

That would be the day :D
It would not surprise me if some greedy bugger come with the proposal to employ boat people for a bowl of rice with the purpose to "help"them to integrate to the Australian way of life :D

Don't want to harp on it, but can only say what I know, I have a friend who has been a parcel contractor for Aus. Post for many years, each contract renewal they turn the screws a bit harder. He told me it is getting to the stage where it is not viable for him to remain in business. He told me down in Melbourne, certain workers from a sub-continent close to Aus. have formed syndicates and are offering to take up contracts for extremely low prices , now that's business, I guess, and everyone needs to work, but I believe the delivery standard has dropped alarmingly, and I know English doesn't necessarily have to be spoken to deliver a parcel, but I'm willing to suggest before long there will cases of contractors being found with a house full of parcels, because of delivery pressures [ has happened before] Bob

[THE BOOGER]

Don't want to harp on it, but can only say what I know, I have a friend who has been a parcel contractor for Aus. Post for many years, each contract renewal they turn the screws a bit harder. He told me it is getting to the stage where it is not viable for him to remain in business. He told me down in Melbourne, certain workers from a sub-continent close to Aus. have formed syndicates and are offering to take up contracts for extremely low prices , now that's business, I guess, and everyone needs to work, but I believe the delivery standard has dropped alarmingly, and I know English doesn't necessarily have to be spoken to deliver a parcel, but I'm willing to suggest before long there will cases of contractors being found with a house full of parcels, because of delivery pressures [ has happened before] Bob

I see this in my business the client knows what it costs to employ people but happily gives contracts to people/companies at less than cost price even state and fed govt departments do it :mad:

[BigJon]

Interesting one is day care

I have to pay full wack for my kids to be there to
Tomorrow but there not because it is closed. But I still have to pay $75 a day for each of them even though they at home with me.

And the girls working in the day care who look after my kids , don't get paid for public holidays at all. So that 100% pure profit for the daycare center tomorrow. That pretty standard around the country in day care.

My Mrs told me about this scam on the weekend. I had never heard of such a thing. Luckily our childcare place gives us a "makeup" day whenever there is a public holiday on one of the days our daughter goes to childcare.
I wouldn't use a place that charges for nothing, it would be like me sending customers invoices for services that I haven't done on their cars.

[lewy]

I know of 2 gov't contracts up here that the employer's profit margin dosen't cover the yearly wage review 2.6%.They relay on profitable sites elsewere [in aust or overseas]to cover their loses here.when things go belly up over there they cut cost's were ever they can including trying to not pay penalties.

[frantic]

This is where some sort of law needs to be enacted. E.g contract for job requires 10 people for 8 hrs a day at M dollars per hour minimum, so the minimum quote will be 400x M, + tax, GST, super,insurance etc. Then awarding quote comes down to what else each tender offers.

[Ralph1Malph]

Sounds like they were there in the days of Post Agencies when the operators were paid a salary by Australia Post. Post Agents were given the option of changing to an LPO or accepting a surrender package. Licensed Post Offices are a quite different arrangement. LPO's have to generate their own income by sales and commissions. Some are absolute gold mines getting commission on banking, bill paying, Western Union transfers and so on and on. Your parent's shop might be in a bad location. Our local PO is busy all day.

True. My parents opted for the LPO. Being rural, they also but separately hold the delivery contracts. The LPO indeed makes it's money from everything other than letters and stamps. Luckily, our shopfront is zoned in such a way M&D can sell almost anything including perishables.
Another post mentions the delivery aspect. My parents have been very savvy and have managed to eek a living out of AusPost. They benefit from lack of competition (those 'syndicates' haven't ventured that rural yet). It's actually tender time and I know most of this info from the tender process. The Parcel and Freight 'partner' of Auspost will soon not be allowed to dump their undelivered or nodal consignments at our shop without paying full delivery rate to us - in effect lodging it for delivery. This was able to be negotiated only because of the lack of interest in the runs by the syndicates. FWIW AusPost tender section squeal when your tender includes 400 000 km (over three years) @ $36.80 per km:eek::twisted:.

BTW, my parents would happily sellout to a 'syndicate'.

Ralph

[bob10]

BTW, my parents would happily sellout to a 'syndicate'.

Ralph

Word is, when Post offers up sections of the job for sale, the remote country sections will not be offered up as part of the package. No profit, private enterprise are not interested. Another interesting development, delivery to your house may become a thing of the past. Mail may be delivered to " nodes ", & you have to travel to the node to pick up mail. Internet is king. Bob

[BMKal]

Word is, when Post offers up sections of the job for sale, the remote country sections will not be offered up as part of the package. No profit, private enterprise are not interested. Another interesting development, delivery to your house may become a thing of the past. Mail may be delivered to " nodes ", & you have to travel to the node to pick up mail. Internet is king. Bob

Has already been the case in some areas for years. At my mother's place where I'm staying at the moment (outer suburb of Hobart) - there is no mail delivery to the household. You collect your mail from the local shop, which is a PO agency. Has been this way for at least 6 years that I know of.

[Ralph1Malph]

Another interesting development, delivery to your house may become a thing of the past. Mail may be delivered to " nodes ", & you have to travel to the node to pick up mail. Internet is king. Bob

Kinda sorta already. When we started 25 yrs ago, mail on most runs was 3-4 times weekly. Some were even Saturday.
That's been reduced to twice weekly but there is certainly a push (on remote runs) to reduce it once weekly to house with alternate being to main road intersection. On some of M&D's runs the house is 45km from the road! These nodes you speak of are theoretically going to be 'community' places eg schools, pubs, roadhouses etc and would operate like PO Boxes.
Cheers
Ralph

[lewy]

Perhaps the govt should be running these essential services like the mail,power supply,water and sewage,railways I suggest we name them,post master general,water board etc,;)

[George130]

Been picking up our mail from the general store for 10 years now. I don't mind it at all. Know the lady quite well.

[mikehzz]

Perhaps the govt should be running these essential services like the mail,power supply,water and sewage,railways I suggest we name them,post master general,water board etc,;)

Maybe some sort of health or education schemes too? But we all know that private enterprise will do it better and cheaper because they aren't interested in turning a huge profit, especially if it's an essential service with no competition. After all, I think that $40,000 is a reasonable fee for a procedure like a colonoscopy. As if the government could possibly match that?