Nose down

[Samblers]

Sorry, I have too much time on my hands at the moment.... :rolleyes:

Noticing that my 110 is definitely 'nose down' compared to others. Is this normal?

Only noticed since ive started considering/researching different tyre sizes... doesnt seem so much room under the front arches as there might otherwise be ...?

[Greyfox]

Sorry, I have too much time on my hands at the moment.... :rolleyes:

Noticing that my 110 is definitely 'nose down' compared to others. Is this normal?

Only noticed since ive started considering/researching different tyre sizes... doesnt seem so much room under the front arches as there might otherwise be ...?


What equipment ( weight) over the front axle have you,
Have you only just noticed this, have you added equipment then noticed this,
Are the springs and dampers standard, any leaks from the dampers,
Does it handle normal or has the handling changed ?.

[slug_burner]

Fairly common, particularly if you have a bullbar and other goodies up front. The front springs sag after a few years, the rears in most cases run around unloaded and might be a bit stiffer.

[Samblers]

Yep, ARB bullbar up front but everything else is standard and only 3 years old. Two scrawny kids in the back and not much else usually.

Its level, left to right... handles fine.

[MR LR]

That what happens when you hang an ARB dozer blade on the front.

Maybe a winch aswell? Needs some stiffer coils, or longer to keep the stock ride.

Will

[lochie]

G'day. Sambler.The trick was to fit LR 130 springs to the front.I think you might find the part no in the archives.My Def.was modified a long time ago ,pre Cape York, Gibb,river road and other off road destinations and still looks good.Hopes this helps.Lochie

[scarry]

And if you are looking for something to do,why not give it the 40mm lift and it will look like this:D


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/11/1466.jpg


Front springs also sagged on D2's,even with no extra weight on the front

[Chops]

I have what I consider much the same problem Samblers, however, mine also has a winch on it.

Paul, your 110 looks good.
With the 40mm lift, what are your uni's up to, or did you change over to a double Cardin?

Lochie, when you say the 130 front springs, is that just the standard ones, or are you referring to the heavy duty ones.
Would you, or anyone else be aware of the difference between standard 130 springs, and the heavy duties from a 110 (HCPU?).

Thanks.

[scarry]

No probs so far,stock uni's.

MR auto did the job,have done heaps and had no problems.
40mm is the max you can go with stock setup.I think it settles just under 40mm.

Bilstein shocks,King springs.

[Samblers]

G'day. Sambler.The trick was to fit LR 130 springs to the front.I think you might find the part no in the archives.My Def.was modified a long time ago ,pre Cape York, Gibb,river road and other off road destinations and still looks good.Hopes this helps.Lochie


Thanks Guys. Is this a common mod?

I might look into this. The ARB bar can't be *that* heavy...?

Yes Paul your fender looks the mutts :cool:

[Samblers]

Did some reading... time to get the wallet out

Never bought springs before - quick serach shows they are suprisingly inexpensive... any good/ bad brands, things to avoid? LR genuine?

[Chops]

Did some reading... time to get the wallet out

Never bought springs before - quick serach shows they are suprisingly inexpensive... any good/ bad brands, things to avoid? LR genuine?

Lost the plot??? A Land Rover owner?? Never :D

Myself, I'll probably go original,, if not, I'll be going through Pedders. I've run these in my Disco's and my old Series 3 and found them to be very good.

[Samblers]

You fit them yourself? I might have a go as long as spring compressor is not required, which I think it isn't

[Chops]

Na,, just got them to do the disco's, the S3 I did the eyes in the leaves myself, but when I got the new springs, I had them do the whole lot.
They also redid/reset my springs in the cruiser I had.

I don't think spring compressors are hard to get or expensive, but I'll get them to do it anyway. My backs stuffed well and truly these days, so it's just easier.

[Loubrey]

You fit them yourself? I might have a go as long as spring compressor is not required, which I think it isn't

Sam,

It is hard work removing the old springs (we used to just cut them out with oxy) and even harder work getting the new ones in unless you're working with a chassis hoist/ lift.

This is one activity I gladly spend the money to pay someone else to do...

Cheers,

Lou

[Samblers]

Have you done this too Lou? What else am i missing out on i wonder!

I measured this morning its 2” lower at the front than the rear. Will the 130 springs level the car out?

This got me thinking, why stop at level … is it possible to go slightly higher to get some larger tyres under there, without making any other mods? It’s a can of worms really :)

[Loubrey]

Sam,

I've not done anything to the Puma's suspension as all is still perfect there. My tail hangs a bit when the 90 is loaded, but I've got some airbag helpers that I must get round to fitting. This should be easy enough as you can force the rear coil to dislocate if you choose to do so.

I have however changed suspension on every previous Defender as they got older or the km's/ miles built up. Like I said, hard work to undo the bolts and things so we usually just cut the coil out to get better access.

I would go for genuine Land Rover coils as there is a HD front for the 110 (which might even be the 130 front - not sure). It will definitely raise your nose up.

If you want to go up an inch or two the Terrafirma kit is very good value for money. Some of the guys on here spend serious money on the shocks as they tour up and down some bad roads, but for your use the mild lift from Terrafirma coils and the ride on the matching shocks should be plenty.

Cheers,

Lou

[Samblers]

Thanks Lou

[dawsey]

Fitted a arb bar to my 110..measured before,, then after had a 15 ml drop in the front, not to concerned right now .might be a different story down the track..

[Bushie]

Must be something remarkably different with a Puma if the front springs need oxy to get them out :o:o:o

I just supported the radius arm on a jack, chassis on an axle stand and then slowly lowered the radius arm until I could pop the spring out, keeping an eye on the brake lines. - Not that hard at all.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/10/1060.jpg
New HD springs

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/10/1061.jpg
Space for new spring



Martyn

[Samblers]

Thanks Martyn

What was the reason for your mod, which springs did you use and how was the result?

Cheers, Sam

[Aaron]

Im an idiot when it comes to working on cars, but I had no dramas getting my coils out of my TD5? They just fell out pretty much? It was well looked after and clean though.

[Aaron]

Sagged

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/10/1047.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/10/1048.jpg
After new springs

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/10/1049.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/10/1050.jpg

Even with the standard shocks still in place it handled a lot better. Cornering was my dignified. Not like that drunken diagonal power walk face first into the gravel type feel.

[Chops]

Aaron, did you put in rears as we'll or just fronts, and what brand type did you opt for?

[Aaron]

Nope, just fronts. They were landrover OE.

Don't think it bad been mentioned yet, but when you put them in, there are two different springs. One for the passenger side and one for drivers side. Get your parts guy to mark them cleary because they look the same to thebeye.

[ProjectDirector]

Mine sagged 20mm after new winch and bar.
LR recommended they replace only front springs with HD as per previous post.
Will do this before Xmas hopefully, I have some other higher priority things to do such as cargo barrier and reversing camera which are more safety issues for me.
Cheers

[patclan]

I to had a nose drop after a bar and winch was installed. Then when I put 255x85x16's on the tyres were about 20mm from the flare.

I bought new springs and shocks and had a local put them in for me, the ones I bought were Dobinsons, but the front ones they had sent me were way to high, I picked up the defender from the garage and knew I was going to have issues, driving home I could feel the vibration from the prop, as it was the weekend I had to rip them out myself and put the originals back in, I tried at first with rope, I read somewhere that you can compress them then tie rope around then they will come out easy, well that did not work for me, I sent the misses down to SC and she picked up a set of spring compressors for me, after that it took about 30min to get them out and the old ones back in, it was not a hard job but it was a pain in the ass.

I drove the car back down to the garage on the Monday and he stuck in a set of kings in the front, I think they are +2 which brought it back up nice and level, and they seem to be pretty good, if I did it again I would put in the LR HD ones, I still have the Dobinsons in the back and they seem ok but a bit hard when empty, if I ever get round to it I will be putting the LR ones back in with the Air Bags I bought at the same time.

Cheers
Pat

[MR LR]

I don't know what you're doing wrong Pat, but springs on an LR are crazy easy to replace/swap.

- Jack car up, put chassis on stands
- remove wheels, while axle is supported by a jack
- unbolt shocks from the axle
- unbolt spring retainers
- lower the axle on the jack
- pull springs out
- put it back together
No need for spring compressors or any of that.

Will

[patclan]

I don't know what you're doing wrong Pat, but springs on an LR are crazy easy to replace/swap.

- Jack car up, put chassis on stands
- remove wheels, while axle is supported by a jack
- unbolt shocks from the axle
- unbolt spring retainers
- lower the axle on the jack
- pull springs out
- put it back together
No need for spring compressors or any of that.

Will

It could have been that the springs were that big it made them tight but I seriously could not get them out. and had issues getting the originals back in, I would love to say I will give it another go but it wont be for a few years on the front I hope :)

Cheers

[Samblers]

LR want around $150each for the Heavy Duty 110/ 130 front springs, NRC 9448 and NRC 9449

Suggest me some more options? Terrafirmer, what else?

I’d prefer something proven, just not at $150 ea

[MR LR]

LR want around $150each for the Heavy Duty 110/ 130 front springs, NRC 9448 and NRC 9449

Suggest me some more options? Terrafirmer, what else?

I’d prefer something proven, just not at $150 ea
Lovells, LRA, King, Dobinson, RTE... the list is endless

[BST4X4XFA]

Hi there Sam,

As Scarry mentioned, Bilstiens shocks & King Springs seems to be a popular option for the defenders.

Regarding fitting them, not that difficult at all. I've done mine and a mates TD5, a Saturday morning should suffice. I'll be happy to lend a hand if you decide to do the install your self.

Cheers, Jurgens.

[Samblers]

Thanks matey, much appreciated... I'll give it a go myself and call in the reinforcements if it gets too hard.

Just browsing King springs now...

Presume i'll be ok with the std shocks seeing as i'll just be putting it back up to stock height...?

[Loubrey]

OK, so I have to qualify that needing to cut the front springs out was on a car subject to 11 years of UK road salt.:D:D:D (300Tdi not Puma!)

Cheers,

Lou

[Chops]

Can someone tell me if the "standard" 130 springs are heavier duty than standard 110 springs?

[Bushie]

Thanks Martyn

What was the reason for your mod, which springs did you use and how was the result?

Cheers, Sam

With the ARB bar and winch in the front it had dropped a few inches, the progressive part of the spring was compressed.

Happy with the result, certainly driven some rough km since with decent loads.

the standard springs yellow/yellow are 150lb/inch the new springs were 225lb/inch as has already been mentioned they are L&R handed so need to get it right.
The new springs are listed as 110HDfront/130Stdfront/90 rear

My rear springs are std but now with airbags.


Martyn

[TonyC]

You could try LRA, they have more springs than you could poke a stick at.

Coil Springs (http://www.lrautomotive.com.au/contents/en-us/d665.html)

Tony

[Leroy_Riding]

The new springs are listed as 110HDfront/130Stdfront/90 rear


Martyn

are you saying that 90 rear's are 130 fronts? I have never really looked close enough at my suspension before as its all stock, but with a load in the back it squats a bit much for my taste, could I get a set of HD130 fronts and put them in the rear? and alternatively when my winch goes on but a set of 110 fronts in? or are the fronts in a 90 diff to the fronts in a 110?

Leroy

[TonyC]

Can someone tell me if the "standard" 130 springs are heavier duty than standard 110 springs?

Marcus
130 fronts are the same as 110HD fronts, but different to standard 110

NRC9448 D110 HD, D130
Front drivers side 15.31 inch free length, 225 Lb/Inch, blue/red

NRC9449 D110 HD, D130
Front passenger side 14.80 inch free length, 225 Lb/Inch, yellow/white

NRC8044 D110
Front left 15.13 Inch free length 155/215 Lb/Inch, white/white

NRC8045 D110
Front right, 14.49 inch free length, 155/215 Lb/inch, yellow/yellow

Leroy
Yes the standard 90 rear are the same part no.s as the 130 fronts NRC9448 and NCR9449.

Tony

[Aaron]

Mine got springs and shocks today.

For those that are interested, here are the part numbers.

Front springs - KRFR-03 Kings.
Rear Springs - KLRS-05 Kings.

Front shocks. Terrafirma Pro Sport - TF131
Rear shocks. Terrafirma Pro Sport - TF132

Ride is exceptional. I suspect after a few weeks it will get better.

PM me if you want prices.



https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/10/634.jpg

Looks like the front is higher, but its because of how its parked. Its very level.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/10/635.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/10/636.jpg

[Samblers]

So I ended up buying Terrafirma springs, part TF018 (pair) – for future ref these are the same free length and spring rate (380mm/390mm free length; 230lb/in rate) as the genuine NRC9448/9449 springs and $140 less.

Going to do this myself - will I need a high lift jack?

I have a trolley jack, a scissor jack and the bottle jack that came with the car

Any other special tools req’d before I start?

[Cammo]

A set of stands would be an advantage. An hour or so before you start, spray all the fasteners with WD40 or similar. Take a before photo and measurements so you can post on here your "lookwhatididtoday" story :D

Take your time and have fun!

[BST4X4XFA]

So I ended up buying Terrafirma springs, part TF018 (pair) – for future ref these are the same free length and spring rate (380mm/390mm free length; 230lb/in rate) as the genuine NRC9448/9449 springs and $140 less.

Going to do this myself - will I need a high lift jack?

I have a trolley jack, a scissor jack and the bottle jack that came with the car

Any other special tools req’d before I start?

I used a trolley jack and a high lift jack to do myne. You just have to be very careful with the high lift as they are an unstable device by design. Most of your time will be spent on the front as the rear is very simple. The worst is to undo the top of the front shocks, if you're going to chuck the old ones you can use a vice-grip on the shaft to stop them from turning.

Cheers, Jurgens.

[Samblers]

Cheers guys, i'm only doing fronts

[Chops]

So I ended up buying Terrafirma springs, part TF018 (pair) – for future ref these are the same free length and spring rate (380mm/390mm free length; 230lb/in rate) as the genuine NRC9448/9449 springs and $140 less.



Sorry Samblers,, just making sure I've read you right.
The springs you've bought are equivalent to the 130's standard springs, and $140 less for the pair ?

By any chance did you look around for a second hand set,,, ie; a set that came out of a car which were replaced with 130 HD? (I hope that's understandable), probably obtainable from a suspension place.

Cheers Chops

[Aaron]

Spring compressors

[Samblers]

[FONT="Comic Sans MS"][COLOR="Blue"][SIZE="3"]

Sorry Samblers,, just making sure I've read you right.
The springs you've bought are equivalent to the 130's standard springs, and $140 less for the pair ?


Correct. LR want $150 each spring for NRC9448/9449 which are 376mm/389mm length, 225lb/in

Terrafirma are $160 for the pair – 380mm/390mm length, 230lb/in so identical within practical reason.

Terrafirma also list these as the 130 front springs and 90 rears, same as LR does so that’s good enough for me

[Samblers]

Spring compressors

according to others in this thread, apparently not

[Loubrey]

Sam,

Without spring compressors you've got to "force" quite significant axle articulation to get the coils out. With the shocks removed you've got to get the coil to dislocate by lifting the other side high enough (or pressing your side down). The first one is usually easy as they sound like they've gotten quite "soft", but to do the second one you've got to make the new coil compress enough to dislocate the other one...

It's not too hard to do with jacks, but you've really got to have the chassis on stands before you try and do that.

Don't tell the Health and Safety blokes, but a small forklift has worked wonders in the past...:D

PS: Using an cutting torch on the old ones still made it a 20 minute job...

Cheers,

Lou

[Aaron]

according to others in this thread, apparently not

Just helps getting the new ones in thats all.

[Aaron]

Give it a go though. If you can't get them in, everywhere sells them. Just get the heavy duty ones... Safer IMO.

[rar110]

Ive changed springs a few times. Here's how I do it. You need to do this on a flat concrete surface. Changing springs can be dangerous. A bloke down the Gold Coast was killed only about a month ago when his 4WD fell on him while he was changing springs.

First job is to disconnect the bottom of the shock from the axle thats nearest to the spring to be changed out. This ensures the axle has maximum downward travel and won't be held up by the shock.

Next I jack up the corner where spring is being removed and take off the wheel. You don't need to jack it up very high. I then pile the wheel and another wheel (spare) neatly on top of each other under the chassis close to the door nearest to the spring i.e. just behind the front wheel for a front spring and just in front of the rear tyre for a back spring. I then lower the chassis onto the pile of wheels under the chassis. Neatly stacked wheels make a great chassis stand as they won't fall over easy.

The jack is removed and the axle should just be hanging. Sometimes the spring will come out with little effort. If not you need make the axle drop a little at the end where the spring is being removed. I do this in a controlled way by placing a bottle jack between the axle and the chassis near the spring. I then pump up the jack and it slowly pushes the end of the axle down until the spring comes out. The new spring should go in pretty easily.

I hope the above is not telling anyone how to suck eggs.

[Samblers]

Not at all. Thanks

[Samblers]

Just reporting back - I did this tonight using Wills instructions (below) - thanks Will. Took 2.5 hours all up - about an hour and a quarter for the first side alone whilst i was figuring things out :)

Didnt need a spring compressor but springs did not just 'fall out' of mine as suggested... i had to put a scissor jack between the chassis and the [control arm? drag arm?] to lower the axle far enough to get the spring out.

Anyway, achieved 40mm/50mm lift with my Terrafirma springs part TF018 though expect this to settle a bit. Looks a lot more level now.

Thanks to everyone for their help and advice

Sam


I don't know what you're doing wrong Pat, but springs on an LR are crazy easy to replace/swap.

- Jack car up, put chassis on stands
- remove wheels, while axle is supported by a jack
- unbolt shocks from the axle
- unbolt spring retainers
- lower the axle on the jack
- pull springs out
- put it back together
No need for spring compressors or any of that.

Will

[Samblers]

Just reporting back - I did this tonight using Wills instructions (below) - thanks Will. Took 2.5 hours all up - about an hour and a quarter for the first side alone whilst i was figuring things out :)

Didnt need a spring compressor but springs did not just 'fall out' of mine as suggested... i had to put a scissor jack between the chassis and the [control arm? drag arm?] to lower the axle far enough to get the spring out.

Anyway, achieved 40mm/50mm lift with my Terrafirma springs part TF018 though expect this to settle a bit. Looks a lot more level now.

Thanks to everyone for their help and advice

Sam


I don't know what you're doing wrong Pat, but springs on an LR are crazy easy to replace/swap.

- Jack car up, put chassis on stands
- remove wheels, while axle is supported by a jack
- unbolt shocks from the axle
- unbolt spring retainers
- lower the axle on the jack
- pull springs out
- put it back together
No need for spring compressors or any of that.

Will

[Scallops]

And if you are looking for something to do,why not give it the 40mm lift and it will look like this:D


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/11/1466.jpg


Front springs also sagged on D2's,even with no extra weight on the front

X2 for fitting King springs etc.....had this exact thing done to mine by MR also - brilliant result. No Uni mod required at all and I've done 6,000km since fitted. I also have the Kings in the rear.

[scarry]

Scallops,how good is the ride,absolutely fantastic.
And that bit extra height is so helpful.
Done close to 40K since the lift,no issues either.Although one of the rear coils popped out once,easy fix.

One of my younger brothers(an LR tragic:D:()took it for a drive and could not believe how well it drives.I recon it actually hits the bumps better than the ......can i say it......D4! at times.
Long wheelbase,bigger tyres also helps.

Now it just needs a chip(not gonna tell the owner though),but even stock,pulls like a train once the revs are up.

[Scallops]

Scallops,how good is the ride,absolutely fantastic.
And that bit extra height is so helpful.
Done close to 40K since the lift,no issues either.Although one of the rear coils popped out once,easy fix.

One of my younger brothers(an LR tragic:D:()took it for a drive and could not believe how well it drives.I recon it actually hits the bumps better than the ......can i say it......D4! at times.
Long wheelbase,bigger tyres also helps.

Now it just needs a chip(not gonna tell the owner though),but even stock,pulls like a train once the revs are up.

The difference is exactly as you describe, scarry - very glad I had this done. The thing I really notice is now having to almost jump to get into the cabin - Kat notices this even more so! :D

[scarry]

The difference is exactly as you describe, scarry - very glad I had this done. The thing I really notice is now having to almost jump to get into the cabin - Kat notices this even more so! :D

I know what that is like,don't notice it as much with the Deefer as i don't drive it enough,but if you ever get into a D4,and it goes into extended height which is higher than off road height,when you go to get out,you sort of half fall out!
And have to jump to get back in.

[Aaron]

X2 for fitting King springs etc.....had this exact thing done to mine by MR also - brilliant result. No Uni mod required at all and I've done 6,000km since fitted. I also have the Kings in the rear.

Did the same mod at MR also. Drive is much more sophisticated now.