TD5 Head Gasket

[djam1]

Just putting this one out there it may help people in the future.

A couple of weeks back I left to go on holidays Monday I started my journey back up North to discover that the TD5 Defender was pushing coolant out of the cap.
Not a problem I thought it only had a new AMC head installed with steel dowels 25000 Ks ago must be the cap.
Put a new cap on and drove 160 Ks to discover the issue still existed.

Put car in to have head removed to see whats going on to discover that the Head Gasket has failed in multiple places.
A well known WA Land Rover expert indicates he has seen this when aftermarket head bolts are used apparently they loose tension and the mayhem begins.
The workshop involved both now and 25000 Ks ago indicate they only use genuine bolts

The car does have a VNT and has an excellent tune by Jose on my way south the maximum EGT was 620 degrees (140 Km/h passing a truck) the norm seemed to be 380-450 degrees
Not sure if any of the changes have caused the issue
Max turbo pressure is probably 24 PSI with the bulk of the long journey sitting on 18 PSI.

Not sure what the lesson is yet but I suspect the use of aftermarket head bolts on a TD5 are a bad idea.

[Defender Mike]

Did you have them retightend after a few thousand ks. They are very long bolts and stretch.
Mike

[Slunnie]

Did you have them retightend after a few thousand ks. They are very long bolts and stretch.
Mike

They don't do that with new cars do they?

[djam1]

As this is not the correct procedure no

[llandro]

My thinking about those very long head retaining bolts on the td5 is that they twist when being tightened. It would not be difficult to introduce a 45-90* twist which would relax when expanded/contracted a few times.
That the original plastic locating dowels fret must indicate that the head shuffles about when it should be clamped tight.
Just a thought from an old bloke who used to muck about with old motor bike engines with head to crankcase through bolts which rquired constant tightening when high CR's and racing fuel was the go!
mike

[Disco Muppet]

I seem to recall reading similar stories.
Genuine head bolts is on my list, as I'm probably going to do the head gasket early next year.
Keep us posted on any updates :)

[djam1]

Got the car back today and drove 160 Ks north runs beautifully interestingly the EGTs seem lower and the car runs much smoother.

I have the old bolts and gasket that I will try to get some expert opinions on.
The head gasket has splits on 1 layer of laminate between the 3 rear cylinders :o.
Lots of cracks in the gasket the mechanic that did the job says hes never seen one like it??

It amazes me how well it was running in the state that it was in.
Anyone got any ideas who could give an opinion? I can send the bolts to whoever I need to.

[djam1]

For those interested general condition of gasket

Similar scenario
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/discovery-2/153068-td5-please-dont-tell-me-its-my-head-gasket-again.html

[uninformed]

Djam, are the mob that did the inital head gasket saying they definitely used genuine head bolts on your vehicle? IF so, what are they saying caused the failure?

[djam1]

Not saying anything much to be honest
I don't hold them responsible and have copped it as bad luck at 2 years and 25000 Ks no real recourse as I see it.
I would like to determine why so I can prevent it from happening again

[Disco Muppet]

Bad gasket?

[djam1]

Could be Justin indicated there are cheap gaskets out there that don't have any writing on them.

This one doesn't have anything apart from 1207 written on one of the tabs
I hope it was a crook gasket

[Sitec]

That gasket has moved... To me it looks like it was never tightened properly in the first place.... In that last pic, you can clearly see where the head has slipped by about 3mm. It's nearly an identical pattern to the one that was on my gasket! They did use steel dowels didn't they?

[djam1]

Yes it did have steel dowels

[td5inside]

Hi Duane,

This problem may well explain some of the issues we had when we remap your car. I never really understod why your car had smoke from the exhaust with your VNT turbo, since it was not a very hard map file. If you try one of ther early maps I made for, you are probably gona see that there is little or no smoke, now that all is fixed :)

From my experience Td5 headgaskets have little or no tolerance for skim. A light skim can be made, of course using all the replacement parts from Land Rover itself.

Regards

[uninformed]

............From my experience Td5 headgaskets have little or no tolerance for skim. A light skim can be made, of course using all the replacement parts from Land Rover itself.

Regards

Are you saying that the LR Td5 head gasket does not work well when the head has been removed and machined flat?

[djam1]

Thanks Jose the head was brand new out of the box with no skimming being done.
I found a company in the UK selling a stud kit for the TD5 if it blows again I might try these.
They are expensive at 700 quid though

i find the last map you sent me to be perfect in every way so I think I will stick with it

[Islandnomad]

"In that last pic, you can clearly see where the head has slipped by about 3mm"


How can a head move 3mm if its dowelled (with steel dowels) ?

[Tank]

Thanks Jose the head was brand new out of the box with no skimming being done.
I found a company in the UK selling a stud kit for the TD5 if it blows again I might try these.
They are expensive at 700 quid though

i find the last map you sent me to be perfect in every way so I think I will stick with it
Just my observations, from the photos seem to show that maybe gasket goo was used, the rust on the head gasket looks like either you had no coolant/conditioner in the cooling system. Or the Head Gasket is a piece of crap, I only use Victor Rienz head gaskets on my Disco and my trucks. Or whoever fitted the gasket didn't clean the block surface at all.
I have never seen a gasket in such bad condition, ARP head studs are the best you can buy, get them direct or look for a dealer in Australia, Regards Frank.

[djam1]

Thanks Frank
I would be confident that they didn't put gasket goo on it as I know the people who did the job.
The crap gasket is my hope
Coolant was OAT at the correct ratio

[Tank]

Thanks Frank
I would be confident that they didn't put gasket goo on it as I know the people who did the job.
The crap gasket is my hope
Coolant was OAT at the correct ratio
If that is rust on the gasket and it certainly looks like it, then the coolant must not have been doing it's job, or it must have been a crap gasket, never seen one that bad, does it have a manufacturers name on it anywhere, Regards Frank.

[djam1]

Frank
No manufacturers name
I don't recall it being rust just the melted coating of the head gasket I threw it away a long time ago