Families of fallen US soldiers receive bodies, no benefits

[bob10]

The standoff in the US Senate has implications for the families of Killed US Servicemen & women. What surprised me was the amount of benefits paid to families, extremely generous [ rightly so ] compared to their Australian counterparts. Bob



News for Families of fallen soldiers to receive bodies ... (https://www.google.com.au/search?q=Families+of+fallen+soldiers+to+receive+bo dies,+no+benefits&rlz=1C1VASU_enAU554&es_sm=122&source=univ&tbm=nws&tbo=u&sa=X&ei=dLlVUqKGEMXxiAeQjID4Ag&ved=0CCwQqAI)


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/10/1010.jpg (http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/09/20873949-families-of-fallen-soldiers-to-receive-bodies-no-benefits)[/URL]
(http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/09/20873949-families-of-fallen-soldiers-to-receive-bodies-no-benefits)

NBCNews.com (blog)

[URL="http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/09/us/politics/shutdown-holds-up-death-benefits-for-military-families.html"]Shutdown Denies Death and Burial Benefits to Families of 4Dead Soldiers (http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/09/20873949-families-of-fallen-soldiers-to-receive-bodies-no-benefits)


New York Times ‎- 2 hours ago
The House Appropriations Committee moves to get a bill to the floor to reinstate ... The bodies of Sgt. Patrick C. Hawkins, 25; Pfc. Cody J. Patterson, 24; Sgt. Joseph M. ... But the denial of benefits to thefamilies of fallen soldiers — however temporary ... “There are no words to describe this situation,” he said.

[Bigbjorn]

Bob, I don't know if Yanks have a War Widows Pension. USA is not big on welfare payments and if there is an equivalent it would be paltry. In Australia a War Widows Pension is a life long gravy train. Generous pension, non-taxable, income and assets not assessed, repartner and still get a "Widows" pension, Vets Affairs medical care, stick your hand out for generous top-ups from Legacy. 70 y.o TPI's (don't start me on that bag of worms) marry 25 y.o Asians brides who receive a WWP on the TPI's death for the next 50 years.

I can't see why a War Widow should receive a special pension when their needs are no different to those of a civilian widow who get a single parent payment if there are dependant children.

[bob10]

I fail to see how $ 840 per fortnight [ $ 21,840] per year can be considered a gravy train. Also if you are on a War Widow pension you are not eligible for any other form of social security. I don't want to turn this into the never ending Public Service/ Veteran cat fight. I wanted to point out the bloody minded politics being carried out in the US at the moment, & the consequences for the ordinary American. And, if this can't be sorted by the 17th October, the rest of the World. If I was an American citizen right now, I would not be impressed. Bob

[Chucaro]

I cannot see why people complain about welfare payments in general :confused:
The money will stay in the domestic economy keeping business going and also avoiding having massive social problems like the ones in countries without or very low welfare payments.
The last thing that we need in Oz are shanty towns and people collecting rubbish to scarp food.
It happens in countries more rich than Oz so it can happen here
I would have issues with the payments if the money were send or taken out of the country.

[Bigbjorn]

I fail to see how $ 840 per fortnight [ $ 21,840] per year can be considered a gravy train. Also if you are on a War Widow pension you are not eligible for any other form of social security. I don't want to turn this into the never ending Public Service/ Veteran cat fight. I wanted to point out the bloody minded politics being carried out in the US at the moment, & the consequences for the ordinary American. And, if this can't be sorted by the 17th October, the rest of the World. If I was an American citizen right now, I would not be impressed. Bob

The WWP is bloody generous compared to an age pension or the remaining Widow A & B pensions which are less, taxable, income and assets assessable, don't receive whoop-te-do medical care and so on, don't receive generous gifts from Legacy and other veteran oriented organisations. It is about a discriminatory welfare system that doesn't treat people equally who have similar needs.

Up until the late 1980's War Widows could receive two pensions. One from Vet Affairs and one from DSS as the WWP was non-taxable and non-assessable and was disregarded when calculating DSS entitlements. This was cut out but those already on the double gravy train were allowed to stay. One of our field officer jobs was to visit and update the income and assets of these to re-assess their DSS entitlement in line with increasing savings as most of them didn't/couldn't spend two pensions.

[Pickles2]

Bob, I don't know if Yanks have a War Widows Pension. USA is not big on welfare payments and if there is an equivalent it would be paltry. In Australia a War Widows Pension is a life long gravy train. Generous pension, non-taxable, income and assets not assessed, repartner and still get a "Widows" pension, Vets Affairs medical care, stick your hand out for generous top-ups from Legacy. 70 y.o TPI's (don't start me on that bag of worms) marry 25 y.o Asians brides who receive a WWP on the TPI's death for the next 50 years.

I can't see why a War Widow should receive a special pension when their needs are no different to those of a civilian widow who get a single parent payment if there are dependant children.
Agree, I know of a female who married a fellow who served in WW11 (not O/seas), many many years after WW11, in the seventies, and the man died shortly afterwards, but she continued to "bleed" the system, & Legacy, big time.....never wanted to pay for anything....and rarely ever did.
Always complained she couldn't afford this, couldn't afford that, the pension was not enough, yet she was always travelling, both here & O/S?....and had a nice home....with everything in it?
Cheers, Pickles.

[bob10]

Agree, I know of a female who married a fellow who served in WW11 (not O/seas), many many years after WW11, in the seventies, and the man died shortly afterwards, but she continued to "bleed" the system, & Legacy, big time.....never wanted to pay for anything....and rarely ever did.
Always complained she couldn't afford this, couldn't afford that, the pension was not enough, yet she was always travelling, both here & O/S?....and had a nice home....with everything in it?
Cheers, Pickles.

Can't let this go by, without pointing out to get a War Widow pension, the husband must be deemed to have War Service. Very rare to be granted a war Service pension if you didn't leave Australia. The Torres strait islands may be an exception. Legacy do not give out charity, & can't be "bled". You have given a random unsubstantiated example of one woman, which may or may not be true, & held it up as a example of why the " system is not fair" forgetting about the hundreds of thousands of women who struggled for years with husbands badly effected by War. As far as I am concerned, those women deserve every penny, fair dinkum, there are some bitter, sad old men in this country, Bob
LEGACY
Protecting ageing and vulnerable widows Protecting ageing and vulnerable widows - Legacy Through our programs in support of the ageing, Legacy aims to provide comfort and security to those who find themselves alone and vulnerable. At Legacy, we are committed to helping older widows live full and happy lives despite their loss. Legacy currently provides care and support to over 100,000 widows. These are mainly the ageing and infirm widows of Australia's Second World War, Korea, and Vietnam veterans. Each year approximately 5,000 bereaved widows come under Legacy’s care, and most of these are aged 85 years or older. Care is provided on the basis of need. While some widows require little more than advice, others require more extensive assistance e.g. pension’s advocacy, providing safety and security, relieving financial hardship, combating social isolation and providing medical care. Regardless of the level of care required, Legacy is committed to ensuring no widow of a deceased veteran will ever face life’s challenges alone. Trusted advice Combating social isolation Living at home with dignity Health and security Financial hardship relief - See more at: Protecting ageing and vulnerable widows - Legacy (http://www.legacy.com.au/Protectingageingandvulnerablewidows#sthash.AmaO2mz g.dpuf)

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Speaking as someone who doesn't moderate this area, I can see this thread becoming a soapbox and disappearing. The original topic of the thread on deceased US soldiers is important and sad but very close to breaching the rules on politics, the debate on pensions is political so lets keep on the topic and let the debate on War Widows Pensions lapse.

[bob10]

The WWP is bloody generous compared to an age pension or the remaining Widow A & B pensions which are less, taxable, income and assets assessable, don't receive whoop-te-do medical care and so on, don't receive generous gifts from Legacy and other veteran oriented organisations. It is about a discriminatory welfare system that doesn't treat people equally who have similar needs.

Up until the late 1980's War Widows could receive two pensions. One from Vet Affairs and one from DSS as the WWP was non-taxable and non-assessable and was disregarded when calculating DSS entitlements. This was cut out but those already on the double gravy train were allowed to stay. One of our field officer jobs was to visit and update the income and assets of these to re-assess their DSS entitlement in line with increasing savings as most of them didn't/couldn't spend two pensions.

Well then, you should spend your time advocating for the aged pensioners, instead of white anting War Widows, the great majority of whom deserve every cent they get. You could have volunteered for Vietnam, and qualified for the entitlements you vilify, Bob

[Chucaro]

Speaking as someone who doesn't moderate this area, I can see this thread becoming a soapbox and disappearing. The original topic of the thread on deceased US soldiers is important and sad but very close to breaching the rules on politics, the debate on pensions is political so lets keep on the topic and let the debate on War Widows Pensions lapse.

The political issue is a very fine line, 90% of issues that are affecting our life are dictated by laws introduced by politicians including the ones about recreation and 4WD.
It would be very hard in keeping a topic outside this fine line on the general chat forum.
I try to do my best to comply and do not complain about the rules, it is only an observation :)

[Pickles2]

Hello Bob. I hear what you say.
When I mentioned that the fellow never went O/S, I meant that he never served in a War Zone, in Combat. If he say, went to Japan, or New Guinea, after the surrender,....say in some sort of occupational role, would that qualify for "benefits"?
However, my point was primarily directed to the situation where a woman, who didn't meet her Husband until at least 25 yrs after the War, was with him for only a few years, obtains benefits somewhat in excess of other women, when the man's war service had nothing to do with her at all.
And yes, in terms of the O.P.s comment, our various "Pensions/Welfare System" are extremely generous, probably better than most other places in the World. Probably too generous in some instances, which, with an aging population, would I think, place their sustainability in doubt.
Cheers, Pickles.

[bob10]

Hello Bob. I hear what you say.
When I mentioned that the fellow never went O/S, I meant that he never served in a War Zone, in Combat. If he say, went to Japan, or New Guinea, after the surrender,....say in some sort of occupational role, would that qualify for "benefits"?
However, my point was primarily directed to the situation where a woman, who didn't meet her Husband until at least 25 yrs after the War, was with him for only a few years, obtains benefits somewhat in excess of other women, when the man's war service had nothing to do with her at all.
And yes, in terms of the O.P.s comment, our various "Pensions/Welfare System" are extremely generous, probably better than most other places in the World. Probably too generous in some instances, which, with an aging population, would I think, place their sustainability in doubt.
Cheers, Pickles.

First up, I know what you are saying. However, I will never let the actions of a few gold diggers blacken the name of the majority. And OP should pull his head in, if he is going to tar all with his brush. I will not cop that. RANT OVER

No, your 'friend' would not have qualifying service for War Service. However, if he was injured in the course of his duty, he may be eligible for other benefits, according to the circumstances. The day our that our politicians [ or any one else] thinks that our Pensions/ welfare system for veterans is extremely generous, is the day they take up arms, & go & fight the wars for them. We either, as a nation, become neutral, like Switzerland , & fight no one else's Wars, or look after those who do, No in between. To use the vernacular, no jealous bull****. I'm getting wound up, time to stop. Bob

DVA Factsheet
DP07

Veterans’ Entitlements Act 1986 (VEA)

Military Service coverage under the Veterans’ Entitlements Act



Purpose

This Factsheet provides a brief description of the types of military service that are covered under the Veterans’ Entitlements Act 1986 (VEA).


What are the types of military service?

The Australian Defence Force (ADF) currently has three types of military service:
· Warlike service – is determined when the application of force is authorised to pursue specific military objectives and there is an expectation of casualties. This includes a state of declared war and conventional combat operations against an armed adversary. It also includes peace enforcement activities, that is peacemaking and not peacekeeping operations, when armed forces are authorised to restore peace and security.
· Non–warlike service – is determined where military activities are operations with a limited objective and casualties could occur but are not expected. The only force allowed is in self–defence.
· Peacetime service – is routine operations, including training and military exercises, that are not warlike or non–warlike.


What are the types of service covered by the VEA?

The VEA uses the following terms to describe military service that it provides coverage for:
· Qualifying service – is one of the criteria used to determine eligibility for certain benefits under the VEA, including the service pension. Warlike service is the only current type of ADF service that is considered qualifying service.
· Peacekeeping service – activities such as observation and monitoring of ceasefire agreements, maintenance of peace and order with the consent of both parties and sanction enforcement come into the category of peacekeeping. Peacekeeping is not the same as peace–enforcement. Australia has committed ADF personnel to many separate peacekeeping endeavours. Certain members of the various Federal and State Police forces have served on some missions. The Minister for Veterans' Affairs declares peacekeeping service.
· Hazardous service – is activity that exposes individuals or units to risks above normal peacetime and training duties. Activities such as bomb and mine clearance, aid to a civil power or protected evacuations carry an element of risk above the normal.


· Operational service – usually relates to veterans who served outside Australia (some service in Australia during World War 2 is also considered operational service). Details of the various areas and dates can be found in Schedule 2 or sections 6A, 6B, 6C, 6D, 6DA, 6DB, 6E and 6F of the VEA. Warlike and non-warlike service are also operational service.
· Eligible war service – usually relates to veterans who did not serve outside Australia during World War 2.
· Defence service – applies to certain peacetime service during the period 7 December 1972 to 6 April 1994 (or later in some cases).
· British Nuclear Test Defence service – for service where a member of the Forces was present in a nuclear test area or involved in

[frantic]

First off I have never served in the ADF, but my father did national service, but was only asked to go to Vietnam 5-6months before his time was up and they asked him to re-sign for 3 years as a condition, he said no as was newly married to my Mum;) . 3 of my grandparents served in the airforce, my 2 grandfathers , one was in Singapore(his brother never came back from tobruk), then married Nan who was also in the WAAAF [Women's Auxiliary Australian Air Force] making bombs, yes she still has steady hands at 90:eek:, then he went to the pacific, the other was in a protected industry but still signed up and went to borneo, doing a further 6 months after the war moving gases, similar to those being used in Syria, to be disposed of.
I support the ex servo's pension and actually believe it falls a bit short as a person has being willing to put everything on the line and comes back from years away to have to re-start a career elsewhere deserves the miniscule thanks of twenty odd thousand a year regardless of whether they have built up a large nest egg in the meantime or their widow gets it.

As to the normal pension:twisted: unfortunately it is going to continue to be cut as the number but more importantly the percentage of people retired who rely on it increase as it was introduced when the Avg. age was 67, now its 85. Simply put you cannot expect far fewer workers to support far far more pensioners. Pensions crisis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Back when it was introduced you had over 7 workers per pensioner, now its heading to 2!:eek:

The ones hitting the pension now have had 20 years of mass media talk about super but many have not listened.

[mattadelaide1975]

As an ex-defence member, and a member of a local RSL, it gets my back up everytime clueless people jump up and down about Vet Entitlements, War Widows Pensions, etc.

Now I am only 38, and have never been outside Australia, but..... I was bought up in a military family, spent 8 years in the Army Reserve (OK say what you will about that). I have been around veterans and families my entire life, and as far as I am concerned, the War Widows, DESERVE every penny they receive, some War Widows, and even today, women married to ex-servicemen, have to put up with a lot of Crap from their partners, due to PTSD, and various other issues that their husbands/partners are dealing with.

I say good on those ladies for sticking by their husbands, through the bad times and the good times, and if we as a country can give something back to them to say "Thank You" then it is a small price to pay!!!!!!

Enough Said i think.

Cheers

Matt

[bob10]

have to put up with a lot of Crap from their partners, due to PTSD, and various other issues that their husbands/partners are dealing with.

I say good on those ladies for sticking by their husbands, through the bad times and the good times, and if we as a country can give something back to them to say "Thank You" then it is a small price to pay!!!!!!

Enough Said i think.

Cheers

Matt

My mum is a War Widow. I lived thru some turbulent times at home, until I left at 15. Not what I wanted to do, but had to. My Dad was a good man, most times. Until the demons arrived. He fought the Japs up north, & every time he got on the grog Mum took us for a long walk until he was asleep. He bashed Mum on a couple of occasions , Until I was old enough to bash him. Mum stuck with him, for over 50 years, until Dad passed. She loved him & said he was a good man, it's "just the War" she used to say shaking her head. Just the War. I couldn't love my Dad, until I joined the Navy, & went to my own little war[ nothing like his], Then I began to understand. This type of thing was repeated in countless households after WW1, WW2, & ever since. I hope you forgive me when I say anyone who denigrates War Widows, or returned servicemen, walks on the fighting side of me. I've never made this public before, but people must understand. Bob

[mattadelaide1975]

I hope you forgive me when I say anyone who denigrates War Widows, or returned servicemen, walks on the fighting side of me. I've never made this public before, but people must understand. Bob

Hi Bob,

Mate, you dont need to be forgiven, there are those in this country that understand.... and then there are the rest. The rest will never understand as they have never experienced, had family that experienced, or just dont care.

I remember when I first met my wife, she hated her father as he was a hard man, and to be perfectly honest, not a nice man at all. When I first met him, and he found that I was in the Army Reserves, he told me what he did in Vietnam... not a conversation for this thread.... but I understood why he did what he did, and acted the way he did. It took me a few years to get my wife to understand why her dad was the way he was, and once she understood, although the past couldnt be mended, their relationship became a hell of a lot closer. To this day, there are only 2 people that my wifes father have ever sat down with and described what he did in Vietnam, and that is myself and my dad.

And I believe whole heartedly that my mother inlaw deserves the War Widows pension if/when it is offered to her.

Cheers

Matt

[bob10]

The WWP is bloody generous compared to an age pension or the remaining Widow A & B pensions which are less, taxable, income and assets assessable, don't receive whoop-te-do medical care and so on, don't receive generous gifts from Legacy and other veteran oriented organisations. It is about a discriminatory welfare system that doesn't treat people equally who have similar needs.

Up until the late 1980's War Widows could receive two pensions. One from Vet Affairs and one from DSS as the WWP was non-taxable and non-assessable and was disregarded when calculating DSS entitlements. This was cut out but those already on the double gravy train were allowed to stay. One of our field officer jobs was to visit and update the income and assets of these to re-assess their DSS entitlement in line with increasing savings as most of them didn't/couldn't spend two pensions.
I also hear where you are coming from. Please don't judge all by the actions of a few. I mean no offence to you, but you must try to understand the reasons behind Vet. Affairs judgements & awarding of benefits. They are not fools, & the vetting process is thorough. I look forward to conversing with you on this forum , keep smiling, Bob

[bob10]

just read that Congress has passed a resolution to pay all benefits to servicemen & women KIA. Good. Now if these children can just get their **** together to sort out their problems. Leaders of the free World? Sounds more like Rome before the fall, to me. *******. Bob