Over heated engine - NOW WHAT - your advice please

[JaapRoskam]

I would like to ask some advice in fixing a steaming 4.6 in my 1996 P38.
Has done 260000 k. with little service history known.

Had the mis-fortune to let the engine very briefly ... I hope ... overheat last Thursday 10/10 and got to a full stand still, of all places in the Sydney Lane Cove Tunnel, on that stinking hot ( 36 C ) October day. Not that it matters where it happened if not for the somewhat pleasant fact that the Lane Cove Tunnel Company or what their name is came out with a tilt-tray truck , tried to get me going again with heaps of water in the cooling system , after carefully spending half an hour came to the conclusion that the engine would not start.. Then organised a second Tilt-tray vehicle behind us as a safety barrier for the ongoing peak hour traffic and brought us ‘home’ ... all for FREE , so paying toll has its advantages. Thanks guys !

This is what happened:
Just in the tunnel I noticed that the temperature meter was in the red. The small red light in the meter was on. When I saw it I took the first opportunity to stop after 2-4 minutes, I just had finished a long day work and was tired , so I’m honestly not sure about how long the engine was too hot. Maybe only just , maybe a bit longer.
During the time I noticed the overheating and stopping the engine quickly began to loose power. Once stopped I could not start anymore, besides of that I now also had a Transmission Error message on the dash display. I let it cool down for a while , then tried to refill with the little water I had , to no avail , the water boiled out. When the emergency guy came he slowly refilled the cooling system to the top but once filled could not start. Once brought home I tried to start after about two hours cooling time ( me and engine ) but could not get it going.

At this point I need to go back in time a little:
I had the car checked out by Graeme Cooper about 6 weeks before and he had noticed that the Cylinder 8 plug was extremely tight, which to him was a warning sign that the head gasket might be leaking. I just had not noticed any significant coolant loss. But I was already planning to fit a set of fully rebuilt and ported cylinder heads which I had bought some time ago.

Back to now :
Next morning started the engine again with reasonable ease, engine runs great but steams out of the exhaust like a locomotive .
Alto Land Rover in Sydney suggested to disconnect the Cylinder 8 fuel injection to see if that made a change. It makes the engine run rough as to be expected, but the steaming reduced not completely.

This are my observations:

Water in the oil - milky and with fatty globules attached to all surfaces.
Steam out of the exhaust.
Engine runs very smooth.
Disabling cylinder 8 reduces steam out of exhaust a bit.
When the coolant reservoir cap is removed the water bubbles out and smells like petrol / ethanol and exhaust fumes.
Alto Sydney told me that this model engine has 'wet liners' ... is that correct ?


My preparations, I bought:
Fully rebuilt ‘like-new’ ported heads that came off a 3.9 , the heads have .5 mm taken off.
Composite head gaskets.
New head bolts.

Your advice:
Since I never replaced cylinder heads but have done other large mechanical jobs I am not afraid to tackle this job.

But I would appreciate advice from the more experienced ones amongst you.

What to look out for.
What to do.
What NOT to do.
etc.


Any sound advice is welcome guys !!

Thanks in advance and I hope this never happens to you ... again.

Jaap

[bee utey]

Your heads will almost certainly have warped enough to lose the seal of the head gasket against the water jacket at the rear of the block. However there is a distinct possibility that your block has cracked and one liner or more is therefore loose. The liners are dry liners set into the alloy block but these engines aren't known for their ability to survive a major overheat.

I'd remove the heads and carefully inspect the block face for individual liners sitting below the rest, and signs of water in cylinders 3,5 and 4,6 away from the water jackets. You may just be lucky but many engines that reach this stage are scrap metal.

[Eevo]

Have a search for top hat liners

[clubagreenie]

There's a very good chance the liners have loosened. If the gauge is anything like the D2 then it starts moving at 55, is horizontal at 77 abd stays there until 98. From there it's a short trip to the redline and light at 107. You need to get the block tested for hardness as they soften in extreme cases and top hat liners won't fix that. Good news is you have the base oparts for the 4.6 so you only need source a good block and reline.

[benji]

Most times when the block cracks, the liner will move and you can hear it slamming against the head. Is there any knocking?

By all means pull it down, but you are looking at a top end rebuild if you're lucky, and a whole block if you're not. Depending on your skills Greame Cooper are one of the best in Australia, and there's also another bloke in the western suburbs just off the m4 from memory who is reallly good too.

[peter51]

It is a complete fallacy that engine liners move - it depends on the engine production date. My engine starts with serial number 59D and the liners cannot move because the bottom of the liner sit up against a recess in the bottom of the block. I can send you photos to show every body.

Google "John Robinson the last word on liner failure" - there is a picture there of an early block that has been laser cut - it shows a small tear in the block adjacent to a head bolt. He also gives lots of information on the usual block issues

First you should look in each cylinder for any coolant after it has cooled down.
Any coolant - its a strip down. If no coolant,then do a leak down test. Before that fill the coolant reservoir. If you have a cracked blocked/head gasket fault then air bubbles will appear in the coolant reservoir.

If you have these symptoms then take the heads off to inspect the head gaskets. If the head gaskets are OK then you have a crack in the block somewhere. So now continue to lift the engine - its an easy job but be careful. Now have the block pressure tested at the local engine shop - or do it yourself - google the forums on how to do it.
If the block is bad - start you research.

[JaapRoskam]

As far as I can hear it the engine still runs smooth and quiet. No unususal noises what so ever. So after the various dooms scenarios projected I still have hope :angel:

[JaapRoskam]

Google "John Robinson the last word on liner failure" turned out to be a bit of Irish history fun , but I found the link by removing his name i the search:

JE Robison Service — the blog: The last word on Land Rover liner failures - I hope! (http://robisonservice.blogspot.com.au/2010/04/last-word-on-land-rover-liner-failures.html)

Terrific read !!
Thx.

[PeterAllen]

Are you sure that the heads off the 3.9 are a sure swap? I had asked on here about using bits off my old classic 87 model and was advised that there was a slight difference on the heads. Can't recall what it was but I am sure someone on here will be able to.
If you are looking for an engineering shop to skim the heads, I used a place opposite Bunnings car entry at Northmead. I did mine last year and had the heads machined for $110 per side. Make sure you lay out all the valve rods in order. I made a simple template from cardboard and poked them through small holes in the right order and orientation. Give all your manifold bolts a liberally spray with the wd40 the night before especially the drivers side closest to the firewall ( hardest to get at). Good luck with it. I feel your pain.

[bee utey]

Are you sure that the heads off the 3.9 are a sure swap? I had asked on here about using bits off my old classic 87 model and was advised that there was a slight difference on the heads. Can't recall what it was but I am sure someone on here will be able to.

Late 10 bolt 3.9 heads should be a direct bolt on fit. Earlier 14 bolt heads have some minor differences but not enough to stop a determined mechanic.

[clubagreenie]

The guy oppoite bunning is posibly Wayne Smith, he's a god when it come to pretty much anything a lomg a your pocket are deep and you're not on a time budget. 500cc GP bikes, merlins, pretty much anything.

[Kevin B]

The guy oppoite bunning is posibly Wayne Smith, he's a god when it come to pretty much anything a lomg a your pocket are deep and you're not on a time budget. 500cc GP bikes, merlins, pretty much anything.

Where about's this Wayne Smith Clubagreenie?

[PeterAllen]

The guy is at Northmead. I thought he was good value at $110 per bank.and I dropped them to him on Saturday morning and got them back that afternoon. Only thing was they weren't cleaned up but that didn't take me long to do when I got them back home. I reckon he is good value.

[clubagreenie]

Must have caught him on a good day. I've been there with 2 years of research and planing for an engine build and in <30 seconds he can debunk it all and turn around and come up with something better.

Bunnings Nth Parra, on Nth rocks Rd, directly opposite the driveway. Small inconspicuous sign saying Smith Engine Research. The usual, grungy, crap everywhere brilliance.

[JaapRoskam]

Today finally got the heads off. Next to the Hawkesbury surrounded by smoke , quite some place to work.
As it was the first time I took Cyl. Heads off I noticed something strange , which perhaps to the more experienced is normal? :
Most bolts came loose very easy. With a normal large bracket ( 350mm ) on the socket it took reasonable force but not as much as I had expected. I'm fairly strong but a light weight ( 1870 mm tall and only 76 kg. ) so expected a real fight with each bolt , not so... except the driver side head where the inner most front and rear bolts took a lot of screaming added to my 59 year old muscles.
I checked flatness of both heads with a new ruler , both sort of hollow in the middle when looked at with the ruler diagonally, I'd say about 0.5 mm at the most. All the cylinder sleeves seem OK , perhaps a micro tad up but only able to feel with finger nail, not visible.
Got the new heads ready , but wonder if I should replace cam shaft ?
Attached a bunch of photos for your's to comment on.
Thanks again:
J.

[JaapRoskam]

And some more photos to add to previous post. thx.

[Keithy P38]

Have you cleaned the pistons down? That's a clean cylinder!

As for the cam, if you can't wipe those marks off with your finger, I'd suggest its been real hot! Is your oil pump ok?

I'm not an engineer or an expert though!

Good luck mate!

[davidsonsm]

Suggest you get the heads crack tested and the block hardness tested. That's one of the lessons I've leant from buying 2nd hand engine parts.

[bee utey]

Have you cleaned the pistons down? That's a clean cylinder!

As for the cam, if you can't wipe those marks off with your finger, I'd suggest its been real hot! Is your oil pump ok?

I'm not an engineer or an expert though!

Good luck mate!

I've seen tons of cams look like that, it's a consequence of the lifter faces going concave with wear. Nothing special, just old age, best replaced.

As for flatness, feeler gauges under a ground edge of a steel straight edge will tell you if the block needs decked. Nice blowout mark into the water jacket! The heads most certainly will need a closer look by a machine shop. The liners that I've seen loosened tend to drop around 1mm, so if yours are all the same then they're probably OK.

[Hoges]

Have a look at Post #18 onwards http://www.aulro.com/afvb/p38a-range-rover/155035-head-gasket-time-2.html for pics


Definitely new cam.
With some judicious handling and moving stuff out of the way there's just enough room to slip a new cam in place without removing the engine. You need to be VERY careful not to score the bearings however.

The lobes in your photos are worn and seem chipped at the edges. New part number is ERR5250 ...about $190 from Karcraft. No point using a new cam if you don't put in new followers ERC4949 (about $10 ea). Should also put in new rockers.

I will bet also that your chain and sprocket wheels need replacing also. see pics above..that was only 140,000km!

The preload on the tappets/followers is critical. given that the pushrods are not adjustable you have only two real options: Drill out the holes in the head where the push rods go through to accept larger diameter adjustable pushrods... or... shim the rocker posts (all the same!!!) so that the average preload is within specs.

These (preload) measurements are going to depend on the amount skimmed off the heads as well as the thickness of the headgasket. I used an Elring composite head gasket and tightened the heads only to 65-70 ft lbs in 4 stages. however in saying this, I also spent the money and bought a set of API head studs from the USA (Summit Racing) instead of TTY head bolts, though I am sure they would be OK if properly installed.

Have a look at PaulP38a 's webpage on his 'engine refresh' .

I bought the hydraulic lifters, solid steel rockers and a shim set from turner engineering in the UK. New chain and sprockets etc and camshaft plus top end overhaul gasket set (Elring) from Karcraft.

Breaking in the camshaft has to be done properly... you can screw it up in the first 45 seconds you start the engione if you don't do it properly...forgive me if you already know this. I slathered the whole lot in assembly lube and filled the car with running-in oil I got from Repco (high phosphorus content) which U used for the first 1,000km then refilled with Magnatec 15-40.

there's a lot of good advice on the turner engineering website.

sorry for the jumbled thoughts...yell out if you have a question

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Just a quick question--
is that a standard exhaust manifold on a P38a?

[JaapRoskam]

Before reply in detail to all you good guys the following

I compared the old 4.6 heads with the rebuild ex 3.9 heads I have waiting.
Differences:
Just one minor important accessory hole missing in the 3.9 ones, and the 3.9 has 4 extra head bolt holes on the outer side.

But what concerns me is the outer size of the exhaust ports:
3.9 : 20.5 x 31.2 mm or 639.6 mm2
4.6 : 23 x 33 mm or 759 mm2
a difference of 119.4 mm2
equals ... 15 % ...
The inlet dimensions of the header ports are a little larger as the 4.6 ports.

However this seems only close to the flange , more inward the dimensions appear more identical. How bad or not it this ?

See photos:

[JaapRoskam]

As far I know YES , Stainless steel headers they seem to be called.

[clubagreenie]

The outer row of holes makes them really early heads, pre 3.9's.

[JaapRoskam]

Hi , I will answer , question in your post:

Have a look at Post #18 onwards http://www.aulro.com/afvb/p38a-range-rover/155035-head-gasket-time-2.html for pics


Definitely new cam.
With some judicious handling and moving stuff out of the way there's just enough room to slip a new cam in place without removing the engine. You need to be VERY careful not to score the bearings however.

The lobes in your photos are worn and seem chipped at the edges. New part number is ERR5250 ...about $190 from Karcraft. No point using a new cam if you don't put in new followers ERC4949 (about $10 ea). Should also put in new rockers.


OK NEW CAM I now can see why + NEW FOLLOWERS

I will bet also that your chain and sprocket wheels need replacing also. see pics above..that was only 140,000km!


WILL Know it once apart , did that on previous RR before, if half needed I will do that , and maybe do it anyway , any recommendation for the type of timing gear/chain type ?

The preload on the tappets/followers is critical. given that the pushrods are not adjustable you have only two real options: Drill out the holes in the head where the push rods go through to accept larger diameter adjustable pushrods... or... shim the rocker posts (all the same!!!) so that the average preload is within specs.


Are adjustable pushrods a 'save' option in the longterm : can they 'de-adjust' on their own , I understand that the preload is critical , BUT how to determine the accurate preload ?

These (preload) measurements are going to depend on the amount skimmed off the heads as well as the thickness of the headgasket. I used an Elring composite head gasket and tightened the heads only to 65-70 ft lbs in 4 stages. however in saying this, I also spent the money and bought a set of API head studs from the USA (Summit Racing) instead of TTY head bolts, though I am sure they would be OK if properly installed.


The new 3.9 heads have been skimmed off 0.5 mm , as they originally had tin gaskets and now will get composite gaskets.
I already have new bolts, from a mechanics point of view I can see that studs mount at the max depth in the engine block regardless tension , but is that really all that important ? Or is there an other reason why studs are really worth their money over bolts, a genuine practical reason I overlook ?

Have a look at PaulP38a 's webpage on his 'engine refresh' .

Great section !!

I bought the hydraulic lifters, solid steel rockers and a shim set from turner engineering in the UK. New chain and sprockets etc and camshaft plus top end overhaul gasket set (Elring) from Karcraft.

What makes the lifters and rockers from Turner better ?

Breaking in the camshaft has to be done properly... you can screw it up in the first 45 seconds you start the engione if you don't do it properly...forgive me if you already know this. I slathered the whole lot in assembly lube and filled the car with running-in oil I got from Repco (high phosphorus content) which U used for the first 1,000km then refilled with Magnatec 15-40.


Great learning !!

there's a lot of good advice on the turner engineering website.

sorry for the jumbled thoughts...yell out if you have a question

BIG THANKS FOR THE ELABORATE HELP
J. :spudnikparty:

[JaapRoskam]

Hi BEE UTEY , as you can see in my Reply to HOGES I will replace cam and followers , not sure yet about standard or adjustable tappets. Also it could be that what I think is a 3.9 head may be an older version. See my new post re. the heads.
I once had a 3.5 County which got a 4.6 block , but since the heads of the 3.5 were so good Graeme Coopers who did the job used those on that 4.6 . Would there be anything agains using those older style heads ... See the narrower exhaust ports in my post.

[Hoges]

I bought the steel rockers because they are milled/machined from the one piece of iron. There's no pressed in cups as in alloy rockers. They are heavier than the alloy ones, however, for a low compression relatively low revving engine it's not significant in terms of performance/power loss.

The rocker set from Turners were guaranteed to be "matched". Since I bought the rockers, I also got the lifters because the price was 'right' and the postage cost was spread across all the bits which made it economic.

I bought the cam from Karcraft. It's stock standard aftermarket OEM spec from the original cam supplier. The local cost vs o'seas + postage was equivalent. Same for the gasket set.

I quickly came to realise that in doing this "upgrade":angel: I could go through the catalogues and buy all the best "bits" ... matched heads/roller rockers/adjustable push rods/ Piper cam... first estimate was close to $5k..and it would still be a low compression agricultural donk ....
So in the end I went aftermarket OEM spec parts and it still cost about $2k all up.While I was on the job I replaced the cam sensor and also the water pump, coil blocks and ignition leads (preventative maintenance).

Preload: see http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/162178-adjustable-push-rods-roller-rockers-4-6-v8.html .. post #8, in regard to measuring preload. Frankly, had I been more knowledeable I'd have gone the adjustable rocker route... next time!:eek:

[clubagreenie]

Please used the studs, the difference is in what you've found in taking it apart. TTY bolts are something that the person with the original concept when had should have been beaten until they forgot all about it.

I've run tests on both Toyota (UZ) and LR (4.0/4.6 blocks) TTY bolts and the location of the stretch in the bolt length, the amount of stretch and most importantly (I feel) their lack of ability to hold tension, why you find them loose on dis-assembly. For example, I tensioned a test set and left overnight and 70+% were found 24hrs later to be under tensioned.

[davidsonsm]

Hi BEE UTEY , as you can see in my Reply to HOGES I will replace cam and followers , not sure yet about standard or adjustable tappets. Also it could be that what I think is a 3.9 head may be an older version. See my new post re. the heads.
I once had a 3.5 County which got a 4.6 block , but since the heads of the 3.5 were so good Graeme Coopers who did the job used those on that 4.6 . Would there be anything agains using those older style heads ... See the narrower exhaust ports in my post.

Couldn't you get your heads ported?

[davidsonsm]

[QUOTE=JaapRoskam;2013766]Hi , I will answer , question in your post:

Have a look at Post #18 onwards http://www.aulro.com/afvb/p38a-range-rover/155035-head-gasket-time-2.html for pics


Definitely new cam.
With some judicious handling and moving stuff out of the way there's just enough room to slip a new cam in place without removing the engine. You need to be VERY careful not to score the bearings however.

The lobes in your photos are worn and seem chipped at the edges. New part number is ERR5250 ...about $190 from Karcraft. No point using a new cam if you don't put in new followers ERC4949 (about $10 ea). Should also put in new rockers.

OK NEW CAM I now can see why + NEW FOLLOWERS
I will bet also that your chain and sprocket wheels need replacing also. see pics above..that was only 140,000km!

WILL Know it once apart , did that on previous RR before, if half needed I will do that , and maybe do it anyway , any recommendation for the type of timing gear/chain type ?
The preload on the tappets/followers is critical. given that the pushrods are not adjustable you have only two real options: Drill out the holes in the head where the push rods go through to accept larger diameter adjustable pushrods... or... shim the rocker posts (all the same!!!) so that the average preload is within specs.

Are adjustable pushrods a 'save' option in the longterm : can they 'de-adjust' on their own , I understand that the preload is critical , BUT how to determine the accurate preload ?


These (preload) measurements are going to depend on the amount skimmed off the heads as well as the thickness of the headgasket. I used an Elring composite head gasket and tightened the heads only to 65-70 ft lbs in 4 stages. however in saying this, I also spent the money and bought a set of API head studs from the USA (Summit Racing) instead of TTY head bolts, though I am sure they would be OK if properly installed.

The new 3.9 heads have been skimmed off 0.5 mm , as they originally had tin gaskets and now will get composite gaskets.
I already have new bolts, from a mechanics point of view I can see that studs mount at the max depth in the engine block regardless tension , but is that really all that important ? Or is there an other reason why studs are really worth their money over bolts, a genuine practical reason I overlook ?
Have a look at PaulP38a 's webpage on his 'engine refresh' .

Great section !!
I bought the hydraulic lifters, solid steel rockers and a shim set from turner engineering in the UK. New chain and sprockets etc and camshaft plus top end overhaul gasket set (Elring) from Karcraft.

What makes the lifters and rockers from Turner better ?
Breaking in the camshaft has to be done properly... you can screw it up in the first 45 seconds you start the engione if you don't do it properly...forgive me if you already know this. I slathered the whole lot in assembly lube and filled the car with running-in oil I got from Repco (high phosphorus content) which U used for the first 1,000km then refilled with Magnatec 15-40.



Great learning !!


there's a lot of good advice on the turner engineering website.

sorry for the jumbled thoughts...yell out if you have a question

BIG THANKS FOR THE ELABORATE HELP
J. :spudnikparty:[/QOrger Engines are doing an engine rebuild for me at present and this thread prompted me to ask them about the pre-load issue. Because I've had the deck trimmed, plus the heads skimmed, along with the composite gasket and a new "mild road" cam. What they do, is have an adjustable pushrod, which they set to the ideal length, from which they can order fixed pushrods to the correct length - they come in 0.050" increments. I'm hoping the standard new pushrod set I've bought will prove spot on, but I doubt it. I'll let you know what the outcome is regarding the pushrods. UOTE]

[PLR]

Before reply in detail to all you good guys the following

I compared the old 4.6 heads with the rebuild ex 3.9 heads I have waiting.
Differences:
Just one minor important accessory hole missing in the 3.9 ones, and the 3.9 has 4 extra head bolt holes on the outer side.

But what concerns me is the outer size of the exhaust ports:
3.9 : 20.5 x 31.2 mm or 639.6 mm2
4.6 : 23 x 33 mm or 759 mm2
a difference of 119.4 mm2
equals ... 15 % ...
The inlet dimensions of the header ports are a little larger as the 4.6 ports.

However this seems only close to the flange , more inward the dimensions appear more identical. How bad or not it this ?

See photos:


G`day ,

the minor difference you`ve found can only be over come by making brackets and would be fiddly .

The intended use i would think was for a non central alternator car , to fit a later engine with earlier head in earlier car .

Your 4.6 heads should have something like , HRC 2479 Id # the 3.9 heads if they use factory cap type stem seals will have HRC 2210 and if the 3.9 heads are earlier they will have ERC 0216 and use flat type seals .

How long have you had the car , from the engines internal condition it appears it has been apart recently ? Were the head bolts fitted with seperate washers or were they part of the bolt ?

[JaapRoskam]

I had the P38 for only 3 months , previous owner had it for a year and told me the vehicle had been 'worked' at by a RR mechanic... I sort of had the same idea as everything looked as if not too long ago worked at.
The old head bolts had no separate washers but are part of the bolts.

[JaapRoskam]

STUDS versus Bolts ... Makes a lot of sense , thx !!!

[PLR]

I had the P38 for only 3 months , previous owner had it for a year and told me the vehicle had been 'worked' at by a RR mechanic... I sort of had the same idea as everything looked as if not too long ago worked at.
The old head bolts had no separate washers but are part of the bolts.


G`day ,

before you spend alot of money on it , Cam ETC ,

if your able i`d suggest you contact the previous owner and find out what was done and why , i think they`ll tell you the gaskets were replaced because of it loosing coolant but the problem persisted .

I`d suggest from the lack of glycol in the cooling system that it may have had an ongoing problem when you got it .
The lack of carbon on the piston tops is what tell me it`s not long been apart .

Without seeing pics of the heads and gaskets the ones you have show where 8 and the coolant jacket have meet , they also show how 6 and 8 were in the near future going to share gasses ETC .

You say you can catch you finger nail on the liner and block face this shouldn`t be the case but doesn`t have to mean doom , but may mean further investigation , ie pressure test the block .

So first i`d suggest contacting the prevous .

[Sitec]

It is a complete fallacy that engine liners move.

No its not.... Have seen three cases now... One with an early Rover V8, where the guy got it so hot it shifted 2 liners..., one with a rebuilt 2.286 diesel that developed a tap... This tap then went bang once as the liner dropped and the top ring of the piston stepped over it and then everything stopped fairly quickly...., and the third just this week in work. A MF 165 has come in with a knocking.. First thoughts were to strip the sump off and find out how bad the bearings/crank were.... We found the liner for no 3 in the sump in bits.. The knocking was the piston rattling up and down in a now very oversized bore!

Re the V8 in question.. Sounds like it got very hot... Feel your pain. Looking at those shiny piston crowns, either it was apart last week or there's more to the story. I'd be making a coffee table out of the block, binning the heads and looking for another engine to rebuild. Sadly the two I have in the shed are only 3.5's, and I intend on making one good one out of the two to sit with my LT95 on the shelf I case the Cummins conversion is a failure! Good luck.

[benji]

The reason why he said that Sitec, was that on all engines with a serpentine belt (im pretty sure that's when they started it) Rover started putting a flange at the bottom of the sleeve for the liner to sit on, so theoretically it was held firm by this and the headgasket at the top. The trouble was (as they were heat shrink fitted) they would sometimes not be fitted to rest on the flange, and then the top of the liner was machined to the deck. So on some they will move a bit, but on others they won't.

The maximum lifter pre-load for a genuine delphi lifter is 4mm. My lifter pre-load is 2.5mm and I was concerned as all I could find was a minimum height. The guy from Rover parts plus in Ballarat found that out for me.
It just means that they will pump up more once your over 5700.....

Ill second the cam too, the facing is shot on a few lobes.

[clubagreenie]

Well on my block I pulled one out by hand. If that wasn't the knock I don't know what would have been.

[JaapRoskam]

Hi Folks , it is a while since our last contact re. my blown head gaskets.
many different replies and advices the request for advice to my Blown 4.6 in my 1996 P38 followed .

This is what I did:
- Replaced the 4.6 heads for fully ported 3,5 heads , had to cut one m8 hole up to a m8 hole for the alternator bracket and enlarged all exhaust ports to accommodate the larger header ports.
- Fitted the heads with NEW OEM bolts.
- Fitted near new headers all new gaskets.
- Found out that Viscous Coupling Fan did not work anymore - This was most likely the start of all problems - So I made that into a permanently fixed fan with two High Tensile M6 bolts in threaded holes and LockTite.
- When all assembled : Started engine and it ran a smooth as !! Took it for a careful run ..... bummer blew out all coolant through expansion bowl cap.
- Back to workshop : what to do : I decided to go step by step : Increasing in cost:
1- replaced Expansion Bowl cap >> Resulted in a little longer test drive but still blew coolant
2- replaced thermostat ( what a wicked thermostat that P38 has , the designer should be hanged on its balls ) >> again resulted in minor improvement perhaps but still blew coolant.
3- replaced Radiator for brand new one although old one warmed up all over equally >> made a little more difference but still after revving the car uphill real hard lost coolant >>> DESPAIR !!! HELP !!!
Since every new replacement made a small difference I came to the conclusion that perhaps the leak in the engine might be small.

After a few sleepless nights made up my mind and added RISLONE Liquid Copper™ Block Seal Intake & Radiator Stop Leak to the coolant. First I had studied their web site extensively - rislone.com.au (http://rislone.com.au/catalog/view/96-liquid-copper-block-seal-intake-radiator-stop-leak-41109) - also Known as BAR LEAKS, I contacted the supplier by phone as well , all 'feeled' very positive. The instructions said to add the liquid , run engine 5 minutes to warm up , then let cool down a day. Just to be sure I did so 5 x during a week.

Out again for a test run , drove the P38 over a mixed terrain, bitumen, dirt road , some moderate climbs, and after 30 mins. stopped to check : ALL OK !!!!
Another test drive of 2 hours now , steeper hills higher speed . ALL OK !!!
Then on that stinking hot day before Christmas 2013 had to go from Sydney to Coonabarabran , temperatures near 38 degrees. Windscreen to hot for comfort. But the temperature needle stayed smack bang steady in the middle , did not move a hair thickness!!
:)

When I cam home told my wife how happy I was with RISLONE Liquid Copper™ Block Seal Intake & Radiator Stop Leak. Her dry reply : "you could have used it straight away and saved yourself a month of hanging in that damned car of yours :p " ......woman .....:twisted:

[peter51]

Well on my block I pulled one out by hand. If that wasn't the knock I don't know what would have been.

Out of interest clubagreenie, what is your engine number. Does it start with 59D.

Thanks

[clubagreenie]

Taken from All Rover V8 Engine Numbers (http://www.capriracing.co.uk/RoverV8EngineNumbers.htm).

Can't remember exactly which one but I don't think 59D exists. Mine would have been 40 or 42, it's now 48 but built to HC.

Add to the below table 47,49,50 & 51D as 4.0's


Saloon 3.5 Litre Model Year
42500001A P6 3500 Auto 10.5:1 CR 1967-76
45100001A P6 3500 Auto 10.5:1 CR 1967-76
45500001a P6 3500 Auto 10.5:1 CR 1967-76
42700001A P6 3500 Auto 8.5:1 CR 1967-76
43500001A P6 3500 Auto 8.5:1 CR 1967-76
43000001A P6 3500S Auto 10.5:1 CR 1967-76
43200001A P6 3500S Auto 8.5:1 CR 1967-76
46600001A P6 3500S Auto USA 1967-76
48100001A P6 3500S manual 10.5:1 CR 1967-76
48500001A P6 3500S manual 10.5:1 CR 1967-76
10A00001A SD1 manual 9.35:1 CR 1976-87
11A00001A SD1 Auto 9.35:1 CR 1979-80
12A00001A SD1 man. 8.13:1 CR USA efi 1979-80
13A00001A SD1 Auto. 8.13:1 CR USA efi 1979-80
14A00001A SD1 Auto 8.13:1 CR Sweden 1976-87
15A00001A SD1 Auto 8.13:1CR Australia 1976-87
16A00001A SD1 Auto 8.13:1CR Japan 1976-87
17A00001A SD1 V8S man 9.35:1 CR 1979-80 (VDP 1981 on)
18A00001A SD1 V8S Auto 9.35:1 CR 1979-80 (VDP 1981 on)
19A00001A SD1 Man 8.13:1 cr Australia 1976 onwards
20A00001A SD1 Australia 8.13:1 cr efi 1982 onwards
21A00001A SD1 Australia 8.13:1 cr efi 1982 -87
23A00001A SD1 Man 8.13:1 cr SE/VDP 1982 -7
24A00001A SD1 Man AC 8.13:1crSE/VD 1982 -87
25A00001A SD1Man 8.13:1 cr SE/VDP 1982 -87
26A00001A SD1Auto 8.13:1 cr SE/VDP 1982 -87
27A00001A SD1 Man AC 8.13:1cr SE 1982 –87 hot climate
28A00001A SD1 Auto AC 8.13:1cr SE 1982 –87 hot climate
30A00001A SD1 Vitesse Man 9.75:1cr 1982-87
31A00001A SD1 efi Auto 9.75:1cr 1982-87
32A00001A SD1Vitesse Man AC 9.75:1cr 1982-87
33A00001A SD1 Auto AC 9.75:1cr 1982 –87
34A00001A SD1 Switzerland 9.35:1 cr 1982-87
36A00001A SD1 Switzerland 9.35:1 cr 1982-87
38A00001A SD1 Factory recon 9.35:1 cr 1982-87
39A00001A SD1 Factory recon 9.35:1 cr 1982-87
Range Rover 3.5 Litre
35500001C,D,E R.R Carb 8.25:1 cr 1970-83
35500001F R.R Carb 8.13:1 cr 1970-83
34100001 R.R Carb 8.25:1 cr 1970-83
35900001A R.R Carb CDK 8.25:1 cr 1970-83
39800001A R.R Carb 8 Australia.13:1 cr 1970-83
11D00001A R.R Carb pulsair 9.35:1cr 1970-83
13D00001A/B R.R Carb Auto 8.13:1 cr 1981-85
15D00001A/B R.R CarbpulsairAuto 9.35:1cr 1981-85
16D00001A/B R.R CarbpulsairAuto 9.35:1cr 1983-85
17D00001A/B R.R CarbpulsairMan 9.35:1cr 1983-85
18D00001A/B R.R Carb Man 8.13:1 cr 1983-85
19D0000!A/B R.R CarbpulsairMan 9.35:1cr 1983-85
20D00001B R.R CarbpulsairMan 8.13:1cr 1983-85
21D00001B R.R Carbpulsairauto 8.13:1cr 1983-85
22D00001 R.R Disc efi Man 8.13:1cr 1986 onwards
23D00001 R.R Disc efi Auto 8.13:1cr 1986 onwards
24D00001 R.R Disc efi Man 9.35:1cr 1986 onwards
25D00001A R.R efi Auto 9.35:1 cr 1986 onwards
26D00001A R.R Carb Man 9.35:1Cr 1986 Onwards
27D00001A R.R efi Auto 8.13:1Cr 1986 Onwards
28D00001 R:R Carb Man 8.13:1 cr 1986 onwards
29D00001A R:R Carb Auto 8.13:1 cr 1986 onwards
30D00001 R:R Carb Man 8.13:1 cr 1986 onwards
31D00001 R.R efi 8.13:1 cr 1986 onwards
Factory 3.9 LitreEngines
35D00001 R.R Disc efi Man 9.35:1cr 1988 onwards
36D00001 R.R Disc efi Auto 9.35:1cr 1988 onwards
37D00001 R.R Disc efi Man 8.13:1cr 1988 onwards
38D00001 R.R Disc efi Auto 8.13:1cr 1988 onwards
Factory 4.2 Litre Engines
40D00001 R.R 4.2 efi 8.94:1cr 1992 onwards
Factory 4.0 Litre Engines
42D R.R efi 9.34:1 efi 1994 onwards
Factory 4.6 Litre Engines
46D New R.R 4.6 efi 9.34:1 cr 1994 onwards
48D New R.R 4.6 efi 8.12.1 cr 1994 onwards

[peter51]

Those numbers for the later models needs an update as mine was built 12/99 and the engine number is 59D01432A CR 8.37:1
Just double checked it from the block.
The liners on my engine are flush with a step milled into the bottom of the block.