My D3 came off best in crash

[Clammy]

I was rear ended at the front of a 6 car crash in heavy rain last night, the instigator 4 cars back did a runner from the scene :mad:

Anyway all is well, I was cleared by ED at RDH and our 3.5 yr old is ok.

Looks like the guy that rear ended us came off worse, I can't believe how little damage there is to the D3 despite the impact, twice!. Damage to rear bumper, front passenger airbag cracked on dash but did not deploy, the hand brake light seems to stay on for a bit after I turn the car off, not sure if I noticed this before the accident.

Is there anything else I should get checked on the car before taking the car to be inspected for repairs?

http://users.on.net/~pennys/lr/photo21.JPG
http://users.on.net/~pennys/lr/photo11.JPG

[sheerluck]

Shanep, the D3 is a very tough beast, as you've just found out.

The parking brake light is normal, so don't fret about that, so long as the EPB itself is not screaming at you. Personally, I would just make sure there are no leaks of any variety, fuel, coolant, oil.

I would be concerned about the non-deployment of the passenger airbag though. If it has cracked the dash, but not deployed, it sounds like it was faulty.

[Marmoset]

I can't believe the damage to the car that hit you.

Glad to hear you're all okay but I'd get your car in for a throrough check over - something could be bent under that bumper cover etc.

[Redback]

WOW, doesn't even look like you were hit at all from this pic:eek:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/10/761.jpg

And if you said this vehicle hit you, I don't think they would believe you, that's just amazing:eek::eek::eek:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/10/762.jpg

Baz.

[Grumbles]

I'd be looking for some panel/body/chassis distortion inside and underneath which is not obvious from a casual glance. All that impact energy had to be dissipated somewhere.

[Clammy]

Thanks everyone. Will definitely get the airbag checked out.

Just had a quick look and it looks like the bumper (under the plastic cover is bent slightly.

The plough was still attached and hard up against the spare. Got it off but took a couple knocks with a hammer and a lot of effort to remove.

Some lead? weights in the bumper or frame are both loose but still attached.

It looks like the tow ring in between the two trailer plugs has pushed in slightly.

Broken rear sensor and quite a few broken plastic trip clips but that's about all I can tell without pulling it all apart. Taillights are all good.



I can't believe the damage to the car that hit you.

Glad to hear you're all okay but I'd get your car in for a throrough check over - something could be bent under that bumper cover etc.

[Clammy]

Into the other guys bonnet? :D

I'll get it checked.


I'd be looking for some panel/body/chassis distortion inside and underneath which is not obvious from a casual glance. All that impact energy had to be dissipated somewhere.

[kreecha]

It was alot of rain yesterday afternoon.

Let me guess that the crash site was just outside of the ARB building, possible abit further toward the car storage yard?

[Clammy]

Not quite. McMillans Rd, Leading up to Stuart Highway.


It was alot of rain yesterday afternoon.

Let me guess that the crash site was just outside of the ARB building, possible abit further toward the car storage yard?

[discotwinturbo]

Some lead? weights in the bumper or frame are both loose but still attached.

That's its balls....they need to be hanging loose. Brett....

[Clammy]

:lol2:


Some lead? weights in the bumper or frame are both loose but still attached.

That's its balls....they need to be hanging loose. Brett....

[Rich84]

Yes, if you remove them you will castrate your Discovery, which turns it into a Freelander. :bangin:

[PeterOZ]

Yes, if you remove them you will castrate your Discovery, which turns it into a Freelander. :bangin:

or a CRV ..... :cool:

[shining]

Yep they are tough. I posted here recently when we were sandwiched and an Audi Q7 looked like the Toyota. We were the only vehicle still drivable. We have just had the repair finished (well almost). Still waiting on a replacement bull bar. Even though the front impact was fairly light it had deformed the mounts enough to warrant replacement. Rear damage was more but only superficial.

[SMK]

I had exactly the same thing happen to me 2 years ago in the D4. No visible damage. But the tow hitch was difficult to remove like yours. I had dealer look at it and the result was that the hitch receiver and the rear beam it sits in was distorted enough that it wouldn't fit back in. End result was repair at a specialist chassis place with the rear beam cut out and replaced with a new one. I would get it checked out as I think a lot of the impact goes through the hitch into the receiver and beam.

[PeterOZ]

I got rear ended about 2 years ago by a student. I was stopped at lights on Coro Drive at Milton. I was watching him in the mirror and thought to self this idiot isnt going to stop. As I had a car in front I had no where to go.

As he got close I could see and you guessed it, mobile phone in hand. Next things screech and "wack" I got out very irate and ripped into this clown, he admitted to texting at time and did not see the red light or me. Hello a D3 is not little!!

anyway there was no noticable damage to the D3 but his front was caved in. got his details, no aussie DL, just a (foreign) one. No insurance of course. I photographed his car details and him just in case. Took it to the dealer for a look over. Only think they could find was a very small bend down on the tow point. They said not worth bothering with. As my excess was around $600 and had bugger all chance of getting it out of the clown I lived with it. :nazilock:

[ozscott]

They are strong. You find typically though that most vehicles suffer less damage to the tail than the nose of the vehicle doing the hitting - this is so even with small sedans etc.

Some years ago a nm pajero slammed into.the rear of my d2. My rear tyre carrier was bent a couple of mm and the front of the Pajero looked like it had hit a wall...undriveable in part thanks to guard damage but also the big hole in the radiator caused by my tow tongue. I changed my spare tyre bracket for 50 skins and that was me done...his was thousands.

Cheers

[London Boy]

I'd be looking for some panel/body/chassis distortion inside and underneath which is not obvious from a casual glance. All that impact energy had to be dissipated somewhere.
Yeah, it dissipated into the front of the car that hit it. What's the saying? I'm in a Land Rover, the other car is my crumple zone?

[PerthDisco]

This video shows the strength well;

Land Rover Discovery / LR3 The Big Lift - YouTube

[Marmoset]

A bit of an urnothodox test there! What struck me most was how dated the Merc and BMW looked(the VW less so) when viewed against the Disco. LR always seem to have the knack of designing something that doesn't age too quickly.

[CaverD3]

As said I would get the tow receiver checked where it attaches to the rear cross member they can distort and crack. Important when towing.

[3toes]

They are strong. You find typically though that most vehicles suffer less damage to the tail than the nose of the vehicle doing the hitting - this is so even with small sedans etc. Cheers

Not scientific I know however based on cars seen in wreckers yards over the years a car which is a hatch back seems to just open up and the car behind drives in. Often this is right up to the rear seat. Do not see this with other styles of vehicle which is what made me notice.

Sent from my GT-N8010 using AULRO mobile app

[Clammy]

So the assessor has informed me they will only repair the bumper and tow hitch/mount and have told me the impact was absorbed by the bumper, hitch and spare wheel and didn't not travel through the car. They have refused to do a wheel alignment, check/measure the chassis alignment. They have refused to fix the cracked dash around the passenger side airbag and the cracked instrument panel lens, even though both were not damaged before the accident. It is now his word against mine, I feel like they've got me over a barrel as I need this sorted before a Christmas road trip.

Which got me thinking.. What actually triggers the airbag? motion sensors in the airbag compartment or elsewhere around the body? bumpers? Is it possible for one airbag to go off and fail, whilst no other airbag is triggered?

[Marmoset]

This is from the workshop manual, it seems as though the car makes a decision on what to deploy, perhaps it decided to deploy your pasenger air bag but it was faulty - hence only a fractured dash and no airbag out...

It sounds as though the assessor is trying to brush you off, airbags don't just decide that they want to "hatch" one day. Perhaps another check my another assessor can be sought?

IMPACT SENSORS
Impact sensors are installed in the front and both sides of the vehicle. The use of multiple impact sensors provides shorter

air bag trigger times, through faster detection of lateral and longitudinal acceleration, and improves detection accuracy.

There are two front impact sensors attached to brackets on the body front support frame, just above each front

longitudinal.

There are six side impact sensors located in the passenger compartment, as follows:



�� One attached to each front door.

�� One attached to the base of each B pillar.

�� One installed in each rear quarter, above the rear wheelarch.

Each impact sensor incorporates an accelerometer and a microcontroller powered by a feed from the RCM (restraints control module) . The power feed also provides the interface connection through which the impact sensor communicates with the RCM (restraints control module) using serial data messages. Acceleration is evaluated by the microcontroller and transmitted to the RCM (restraints control module) , which then makes the decision on whether or not to activate the air bags and pretensioners.

When the ignition is switched on the RCM (restraints control module) supplies power to the impact sensors, which perform a self test. After satisfactory self tests the impact sensors continually output 'sensor active' messages to the RCM (restraints control module) . If a fault is detected the relevant impact sensor sends a fault message, instead of the sensor active message, to the RCM (restraints control module) . The RCM (restraints control module) then stores a related fault code and illuminates the SRS (supplemental restraint system) warning indicator.

RCM


The RCM (restraints control module) is installed on the top of the transmission tunnel, in line with the B pillars, and

controls operation of the SRS. The main functions of the RCM (restraints control module) include:




�� Crash detection and recording.

�� Air bag and pretensioner firing.

�� Self test and system monitoring, with status indication via the SRS (supplemental restraint system) warning lamp

and non volatile storage of fault information.

A safing sensor in the RCM (restraints control module) provides confirmation of an impact to verify if air bag and

pretensioner activation is necessary. A roll-over sensor monitors the lateral attitude of the vehicle. Various firing strategies

are employed by the RCM (restraints control module) to ensure that during an accident only the appropriate air bags and

pretensioners are fired. The firing strategy used also depends on the inputs from the safety belt switches and the

occupant monitoring system.

An energy reserve in the RCM (restraints control module) ensures there is always a minimum of 150 milliseconds of

stored energy available if the power supply from the ignition switch is disrupted during a crash. The stored energy is

sufficient to produce firing signals for the driver air bag, the passenger air bag and the safety belt pretensioners.






When the ignition is switched on the RCM (restraints control module) performs a self test and then performs cyclical

monitoring of the system. If a fault is detected the RCM (restraints control module) stores a related fault code and

illuminates the SRS (supplemental restraint system) warning indicator. The faults can be retrieved by T4 on a dedicated

link between the RCM (restraints control module) and the diagnostic socket. If a fault that could cause a false fire signal is

detected, the RCM (restraints control module) disables the respective firing circuit, and keeps it disabled during a crash

event.

[CaverD3]

Which insurance company?
Not his word against yours cos he doesn't know what was already damaged. I am sure you can back up your statement by someone else.
Straight to the insurance ombudsman?
Speak to his supervisor first maybe?
I do not think they can refuse to check the chassis.
What does the panel beater say?

[Marmoset]

I've just had a thought - I wonder if the diagnostics will record an airbag firing? If so, this could be used as evidence that the dash cracked as a result of a firing being ordered.

The RCM also seems to record accident data - how is this accessed and has the assessor even thought to check if the pretensioners etc. have been fired.

Just found a bit more info. for you

SRS OPERATION

General

In a collision, the sudden deceleration or acceleration is measured by the safing sensor in the RCM (restraints control

module) and by the impact sensors. The RCM (restraints control module) evaluates the readings to determine the impact

point on the vehicle and whether the deceleration/acceleration readings exceed the limits for firing any of the air bags or

pretensioners. During a collision, the RCM (restraints control module) only fires the air bags and pretensioners if the

safing sensor confirms that the data from the remote sensor(s) indicates an impact limit has been exceeded. The RCM

(restraints control module) also monitors the vehicle for a roll-over accident using the internal roll-over sensor and high

speed CAN bus messages from the ABS (anti-lock brake system) module and the steering angle sensor.

The RCM (restraints control module) incorporates the following impact thresholds to cater for different accident scenarios:

Front impact, pretensioners.
Front impact, driver and passenger air bags stage 1, belt unfastened.

��

Front impact, driver and passenger air bags stage 2, belt unfastened.

��

Front impact, driver and passenger air bags stage 1, belt fastened.

��

Front impact, driver and passenger air bags stage 2, belt fastened.

��

Rear impact.

��

LH side impact.

��

RH side impact.

��

Roll-over.

The front impact thresholds increase in severity from pretensioners, through to driver and passenger air bag stage 2, belt

fastened.

Firing Strategies

The seat belt pretensioners are fired when either the pretensioner impact limit or the roll-over limit is exceeded. The RCM

(restraints control module) only fires the pretensioners if the related safety belt is fastened. For the front passenger

pretensioner to fire, the seat must also be occupied by a large person, i.e. someone over a given weight (NAS only).

The driver and passenger air bags are only fired in a frontal impact that exceeds the stage 1 threshold. Both stages of the

inflator in the driver and passenger air bags are fired. At impacts between the stage 1 and 2 thresholds, the delay

between the firing of the two stages varies with the severity of the impact; the more severe the impact the shorter the

delay. At stage 2 impact thresholds and above, the two stages of the inflator are fired almost simultaneously. The

passenger air bag is disabled unless the front passenger seat is occupied by a large person (NAS only), or the passenger

air bag deactivation switch is on (all except NAS). The time delay between firing the two stages of the inflator in the driver

air bag is increased if the driver seat is forward of the seat position sensor switching point.

If there is a fault with a safety belt buckle sensor, the RCM (restraints control module) assumes the related safety belt is

fastened for the pretensioner firing strategy and unfastened for the driver and passenger air bag firing strategies. If there

is a fault with the occupant detection system, or if there is a fault with the passenger air bag deactivation switch, the RCM

(restraints control module) increase the time delay between firing the two stages of the inflator in the passenger air bag.

If a side impact limit is exceeded, the RCM (restraints control module) fires the side air bag and the side air curtain(s) on

that side of the vehicle. If the side impact limit on the front passenger side of the vehicle is exceeded, the RCM (restraints

control module) also evaluates the input from the occupant classification system, and fires the side air bag only if the front

passenger seat is occupied by a large person (NAS only).

The side air curtain(s) on both sides of the vehicle are fired if the roll-over limit is exceeded.

If multiple impacts occur during a crash event, after responding to the primary impact the RCM (restraints control module)

will output the appropriate fire signals in response to any further impacts if unfired units are available.

20 Right front impact sensor return Input

21 Left front impact sensor power and data Input/Output

22 Left front impact sensor ground Input

23 and 24 Not used -

Crash Signal

When the RCM (restraints control module) outputs any of the fire signals, it also outputs a hard wired crash signal to the

Engine Control Module (ECM) and changes the high speed CAN (controller area network) bus output message from 'no

crash' to 'crash condition'. The high speed CAN (controller area network) bus message is used by the CJB (central

junction box) and the FFBH (fuel fired booster heater).

On receipt of the crash signals:

��

The ECM (engine control module) disables the fuel pump.

��

Operation of the FFBH is disabled.

��

The CJB (central junction box) enters the crash mode and: Activates all of the unlock signals of the vehicle locking

system, even if the vehicle is already unlocked. After 3 seconds, the CJB (central junction box) activates the

unlock signals again, in case a lock button is pressed during the crash, by flailing limbs for example. Ignores all

locking and superlocking inputs until the crash mode is cancelled, when it returns the locking system to normal

operation. Activates all of the courtesy lamps, except for the approach lamps. The activated courtesy lamps

remain on until they are manually switched off at the lamp unit, or the CJB (central junction box) crash mode is

cancelled, when they return to normal operation. Activates the hazard warning lamps. The hazard warning lamps

remain on until cancelled by turning the ignition switch from position II to position I or 0, or until the crash mode is

cancelled.

��

Activates all of the unlock signals of the vehicle locking system, even if the vehicle is already unlocked.

After 3 seconds, the CJB (central junction box) activates the unlock signals again, in case a lock button is

pressed during the crash, by flailing limbs for example.

��

Ignores all locking and superlocking inputs until the crash mode is cancelled, when it returns the locking

system to normal operation.

��

Activates all of the courtesy lamps, except for the approach lamps. The activated courtesy lamps remain

on until they are manually switched off at the lamp unit, or the CJB (central junction box) crash mode is

cancelled, when they return to normal operation.

��

Activates the hazard warning lamps. The hazard warning lamps remain on until cancelled by turning the

ignition switch from position II to position I or 0, or until the crash mode is cancelled.

The crash mode is cancelled by cycling the ignition switch.

[CaverD3]

Hang on, this is the other vehicle at fault so their insurance company will be paying so if you are claiming off your fully comp insurance there is no reason for them to be so tight. :confused:
Probably a jobsworth assessor try above his head.

[Clammy]

Not that I want to name and shame but lets just say they have ads regarding a Balinese romance ;) .... To be fair we've been with them for more than 10 years with various cars, house and contents, and they have been great.

All complaints have to go to their internal department first and then FOBS. I'll try and download the computers first and look for anything unusual.

Unfortunately in Darwin it is a one man show for a third-party assessment company that covers a few insurers.

The panel beater made all the recommendations, as his concern was just because there is no panel damage you can't guarantee no damage underneath given the speed of the collision.


Which insurance company?
Not his word against yours cos he doesn't know what was already damaged. I am sure you can back up your statement by someone else.
Straight to the insurance ombudsman?
Speak to his supervisor first maybe?
I do not think they can refuse to check the chassis.
What does the panel beater say?

[Clammy]

Good point.

I'll try and get hold of someone in Darwin to run some diagnostics and see what I can find.


Hang on, this is the other vehicle at fault so their insurance company will be paying so if you are claiming off your fully comp insurance there is no reason for them to be so tight. :confused:
Probably a jobsworth assessor try above his head.