My red engine

[Phoenix]

I've got a couple of questions here.

1) I wanted to find a workshop manual for the engine, but before I do that I need to know what it is from. It is a Holden, 173 Red, straight six, what is it from?

2) It appears to be a low compression version (Meaning to speed of 80 apparently), can this be changed to a high compression somehow?

3) The engine is obviously a leaded petrol engine, and on the advice of a friend i changed to using unleaded and flashlube. However with this I got some pinging at medium to high rpm with medium to heavy loads. My petrol station no longer sells Lead Replacement petrol, so I can't use that anymore. Is this pinging something to worry about?

4) Am I able to convert the engine to unleaded, or otherwise, should I just keep using the flashlube?

Thanks for your help in advance style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

[incisor]

Originally posted by Phoenix
I've got a couple of questions here.

1) I wanted to find a workshop manual for the engine, but before I do that I need to know what it is from. It is a Holden, 173 Red, straight six, what is it from?

a whole heap of late 60's thru 70's model holdens hr-hk-hg being the easiest to lay your hands on.

2) It appears to be a low compression version (Meaning to speed of 80 apparently), can this be changed to a high compression somehow?

low compression should be fine on a landy esp if you get hardened valve seats so you can run uleaded without the jungle juice, any holden motor only does 80 in a landie cause they run outa revs, will pull a 60' van tho.

3) The engine is obviously a leaded petrol engine, and on the advice of a friend i changed to using unleaded and flashlube. However with this I got some pinging at medium to high rpm with medium to heavy loads. My petrol station no longer sells Lead Replacement petrol, so I can't use that anymore. Is this pinging something to worry about?

alter your timing accordingly. try retarding the timing a couple of degress at a time till it vanishes. std unleaded is 91 octane where as leaded was 96 from memory, or use hi octane unleaded.

4) Am I able to convert the engine to unleaded, or otherwise, should I just keep using the flashlube?

drop in some hardened valve seats, give it a valve grind, get it shaved 20 thou if you want higher compression and away you go, all done in one.

forget the higher compression unless you want a power increase and just get the valve seats done, holden engines make enough noise as they are.

i have a hi comp 186 in mine and the difference in noise levels between a 4cyl genuine engine and the holden is VERY noticible, but so is the horsepower difference i suppose.

[Phoenix]

Thanks for the reply, very comprihensive style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

From what you have said there is no point in changing the compression, I like the amount of power that I have, I can't see any reason to need more.

How much am I looking at to get the valve seats done?

Now this is where I show my ignorance mechanically. How difficult is it to change the timing, and how do I do it?

[fernockulated]

8O :? firstly ,do you know what the distributor is ,if yes ,then loosen the retaining (loosen not remove!!!) bolt sufficient to turn the distributor body,mark the original position (just in case of stuff up! )then turn in small increments ,tighten then check for pinging,failing that find a mate who is a mechanic :roll: :wink: :!:

[incisor]

Originally posted by Phoenix
Thanks for the reply, very comprihensive :D

From what you have said there is no point in changing the compression, I like the amount of power that I have, I can't see any reason to need more.

How much am I looking at to get the valve seats done?

Now this is where I show my ignorance mechanically. How difficult is it to change the timing, and how do I do it?


nothing is difficult to do if you know how to do it properly style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

if you have to ask how to alter timing then it is not something you should really be doing if you need the vehicle that day.

many manuals tell you how to check the timing and altering it on a holden is easy as loosening a clamping bolt, rotating the dissy 1/16 of an inch, but you need a timing light, a dwell meter, a wire brush and a dab of white paint to do it properly.

or

get a tune up at the local garage, and tell them that it is pinging under load and fork over 65 or 70 bucks ....

for a treatise on the joys of life in a leadfree fuel world

http://oldholden.com/fxfjclub/technic4.htm

[incisor]

a link that may be of interest

http://www.mrbean.net.au/~rover/choosing.htm

[Phoenix]

Thanks for the hints, those are two links that i'll bookmark 8)

I think that the timing might be one for the mechanic at the moment, although my old man has all the gear, so maybe i'll corner him about it on the weekend :twisted:

[fernockulated]

:roll: if your getting your old man to do the job, dont forget the six pack,for after the job is done,oh and dont forget to help him drink it!!!!!!

[Phoenix]

I can do better than that, give him one of his own six packs and help him drink it :twisted:

[fernockulated]

http://www.gamers-forums.com/smilies/contrib/lilly/hmm3grin2orange.gif


got this thing worked out now!!!

[shaunp]

173 0r 2850 as they were know in Torana's and Commodores were first fitted in L J Torana's and HQ series, they ran until VH commodores. I doubt you have a low comp one unless someone has fitted a 202 head or something. These engine are pretty well unbreakable and seem to work beter in LR beacuse they have a longer stroke then a 186. In fact a 173 is a stroked 161 (same size bore) a 202 is stroked 186. 173 /161/149 engines have heads with smaller combustion cambers than 186/202 so the compression is still around 9:1. Some government HQ's were low comp however (army/ telecom). Your truck should go faster then 80. One of my mates has 173 in ser3 lwb and it will sit on 110km with a full camping kit on board. From my Torana days I can tell you red motors love compression, the more they have the harder they go, however with todays fuel over 9:1 is probably a problem. I used to run my XU1 with nearly 11:1 in the 80's.

Hard valves and seats are not a problem for these engines and easy to come by, and need to be fitted for gas or ulp as the heads are really soft flash lube or not. Valve seat recession gets worse the harder you rev an engine and you need to rev a red motor in an LR. Don't be afraid to rev a 173 as long as it has an alloy timimg gear a stock engine is safe to 6000+ even if in reality a stocky will strugle to rev that hard. You won't break it.

[Phoenix]

Originally posted by shaunp
Your truck should go faster then 80. One of my mates has 173 in ser3 lwb and it will sit on 110km with a full camping kit on board.

Well that is interesting, another mate down here said the same thing.

It isn't running out of power at high speed, but I suspect that the gearbox would have a fit if I tried to push any harder, things get pretty loud there at 80, and once I did push up to 90, so either something is quirky, or my speedo is wrong. I'm not sure. I'll have to get the engine number, and find out exactly what engine, from what car I have.

http://www.mrbean.net.au/~rover/choosing.htm

that link that incisor put up has all of the unfo. I'll come back after the weekend with something with any luck.

[discowhite]

On the intake/exhaust side there should be an L or H some where.
this will tell you if its high or low. More compression is good!
the 186 in my stock car with a bit of work will and did get to 8000rpm,
yes you might not believe me but i have witnesses. standard pushrods
dont last over 7000! :twisted:
Get rid of your points dizzy and run a blue motor dizzy and coil. 8)

[incisor]

Originally posted by discowhite
On the intake/exhaust side there should be an L or H some where.
this will tell you if its high or low. More compression is good!

not if you are going to be running on standard unleaded petrol.

many motors have to have their heads shimmed to drop compression to run on standard unleaded properly.

a low comp 173 is an ideal little motor for a landie running on unleaded, esp if you put a high ratio transfer case, overdrive or rangie diff centres in the thing.

my shorty has a 186 in it and a toro overdrive and i had the little fella up to 70mph yesterday to blow the crap out of it.... more like it frightened the crap out of me style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif and the guy driving the barndoor troopy i overtook style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

i must be sook as 55 mph is the absolute max i push mine without the overdrive for any length time. it sounds like umpteen dozen dudes with rubbish bin lids are comin thru the firewall even at that speed.

[discowhite]

run a blue motor dizzy and get it re-graphed to suit lower octane
fuel. or open up the comperssion chambers to 55 to 60cc this should give you between 8.2:1 and 8.6:1.

[shaunp]

Originally posted by discowhite
run a blue motor dizzy and get it re-graphed to suit lower octane
fuel. or open up the comperssion chambers to 55 to 60cc this should give you between 8.2:1 and 8.6:1.

Blue motor dizzy is the go, no pionts to worry about. Blue motors have good conrods as well and the 3.3 has a fully counter wieghted crank.

[Phoenix]

Dredging up an old topic I have more questions :roll: :wink:

1) Where do I find the engine number, I have found a number, but it doesn't corespond with the information that I have found to determine what engine it is. The problem, no prefix. there is a 173 in letters about 3 inches high on the lowwer block, but near the manifold, there is just a number, further along there is a GM which I assume is for general motors, because if that was the prefix it would be a 202, not a 173. HELP!!!

2) If the number that I have is indeed the engine number, then it does not corelate with what the Department of transport thinks.

What they think seems to be the original engine number, not the number of this engine, which I know to be it's third engine at least. What should I do?

[shaunp]

The engine number is stamped on the engine mount boss on the block near the oil pump. The 173 in the on the left side denotes capacity.

[Phoenix]

What i'm trying to figure out is the engine prefix. Do you know where I can find that?

[discowhite]

if you tell me what the numbers on the engine mount (oil pump side)
are i can tell you what it is and where it came from. 8)

[Phoenix]

I'll jot it down and bring it in tomorrow night.

[Phoenix]

Ok, the on the engine appears the following numbers in the following order.

First there is 9937263

Next there is a GM (I assume General Motors)

Firther along (To the rear) there is what appears to be 8F 8

and lowwer on the blockl in bigger numbers is 173.

So what is it from?

[Phoenix]

Also how mich oil does the engine take (I need to change the engine oil)?

[shaunp]

Mate your looking in the wrong spot. the engine number is stamped on the machined horizontal face above the engine mount on the left side of the engine, forward of the distibutor. The number will be stamped not cast. You are looking at casting numbers. It will be something like QD 123454 (HQ) JD 12345 (LJ Torana), HD 12345 (LH torana). It will take 4.5 liters of oil .

[Phoenix]

Ahhh :oops: Looking in the wrong place, no wonder it made no sense.

I'll try again in a minute. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

[Phoenix]

I haven't looked for the number yet, i've been too busy getting grover dirty :twisted:

However on the weekend another matter popped up. I had a cadet camp and the Landy and I were transport. Betewwn the 300 odd liters of water, food for 50 for 2 days, tents, bbq's, tools, the vehicle itself, other equipment, a 4 meteer long tandem trailer and 2 people in the car, we would have topped neat 4 tones I suspect. Needless to say it was a slow trip.

However early friday before I left I had the points burn themselves out. Fortunately I had bought a new set not 4 hours previously. But in the process of changing the poiints, I dropped the screw that holds them in down into the distributor. So I had to take it out and shake the screw out. Re installed and on my way again.

During the trip to the camp, I noticed that the sound I thought was the engine pinging was almost co0nstant. Now like I have said, the load was considerable, however I was real worried. The other guy in the car with me is a real good mechanic (And a series landy nut). He said that it wasn't the engine pinging at all ( :oops: this is what I thought it was ll along), but was a nois that some holden engines make, because of it's increased regularity, we figured out that it is probably something to do with damaged counterbalances in the distributor. Any comments, help or possible fixes, and is the distributor easy to strip down?

[Phoenix]

Ok, found the number now. The prefix is VD, which makes it a VB Comodore engine. 79 - 80, the same age as grover 8)

Although I think that my sump is from a VC, because that is blue.

Thanks for the help on that part, now I just have to get this distributor sorted.

[discowhite]

pitty your in tassy as i have plenty of spare dizzys in my shed 8)
still sounds like timings out, thats the only noise thats ever come out
of any of my 6's, apart from the hole in the block one.
as for the sump if the hump is at the front of the engine its commadore,
if the hump is small and in the middle than its wb or torana.( i think.)
but if it has a step towards the rear of the motor than its hr.
if its at the front a black motor sump has an internal baffel and should slow the flow of oil away from the pick up. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

[Phoenix]

THere is always australia post :wink:

I thought that it was timing, but the noise only became worse after I shook up the distributor. The timing was checked by my mechanic the other day.

The sump is blue, and the hump is to the rear.

I'm going to pich the mechanics brain about this one some time today and see what he thinks.

[discowhite]

ok heres what i think.
if the mech advance springs are weak they could have fallen off
when you tiped it up and shook it. this would cause it to throw the
weights out, but it would/should still need timing?
givin if thats what it is. :?

[Phoenix]

I might neeed to pull the distributor apart to find the problem.

The iming was adjusted after I took the distributor out, so that should be OK. I need to get the gear out one night and check again.