Auto to Manual Conversion.

[minibloodhound]

Hi all, just popped across from the D4 area to ask a quick question.
How hard, read expensive, is it to replace an auto gearbox on the back of a 300 Diesel engine to a manual? Would it require removal of the engine or would you be able to work from underneath?
The only experience I've had with changing gearboxes was with my 998 Mini and I used to just drop the front subframe out from underneath.
Thanks
Scott

[loanrangie]

You can do it from underneath, cost will depend on cost of parts if you can do it your self or need to farm the work out.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using AULRO mobile app

[Homestar]

As noted, can be done from underneath, but the box and TC are heavy, so best bet is to jack the car up on all 4 corners as high as you can, so you can get a transmission jack under the whole lot. You can do the box and TC separately but the alignment can be a bitch to get right in close quarters and you can damage the TC input shaft seal if your not careful.

Remember you'll need a manual pedal box and clutch master as well.

Also, remember to join up the inhibit switch wiring when it is removed from the box or you won't be able to crank it...:)

[*RR*]

you have to ask "why would you want to?"...

[MR LR]

you have to ask "why would you want to?"...
Auto re-builds are expensive, auto's are slow, auto's have no control offroad... etc.

And for the record I had a 300tdi auto.

[Homestar]

Auto re-builds are expensive, auto's are slow, auto's have no control offroad... etc.

And for the record I had a 300tdi auto.

Come again? What history book I'd you get that out of? Bit of a sweeping statement don't you think? Your 300tdi Auto was crap off road so all autos are?

"All wood burns, so all that burns is wood?"...

[MR LR]

Come again? What history book I'd you get that out of? Bit of a sweeping statement don't you think? Your 300tdi Auto was crap off road so all autos are?

"All wood burns, so all that burns is wood?"...
We are talking about 300tdi autos... That is what this conversation is about, is it not?

[Homestar]

For a start, that's not what you said, I have highlighted the line you made that I have issue with. Also, there are different autos, which one are you referring to?

[Dougal]

you have to ask "why would you want to?"...

I can understand exactly why you'd want to.
Basically people either like autos or they don't. I don't. That's the opinion side.

The fact side:
Manuals are more efficient. Compared to 4sp autos, a lot more efficient.
They give better engine braking.
They produce less heat.
Fewer oil lines and coolers.
They don't change gear when you don't want them to.

Minibloodhound. It's probably easiest to swap your entire pedal box too.

[MR LR]

ZF 4HP22 Auto re-builds are expensive, 300tdi auto's are slow, 300tdi auto's have no control offroad... etc.

And for the record I had a 300tdi auto.

I just didn't like the gearbox.



For a start, that's not what you said, I have highlighted the line you made that I have issue with. Also, there are different autos, which one are you referring to?

There you go, I felt it unnecessary originally to point out in a 300tdi auto conversation, that I was talking about 300tdi's. I don't know if you're a troll or a grammar nazi, or just in love with automatic transmissions.

But I've never liked any I've driven off road. That's personal preference.

[loanrangie]

Auto re-builds are expensive, auto's are slow, auto's have no control offroad... etc.

And for the record I had a 300tdi auto.

What a load of crap, my tdi auto will leave a manual for dead and i have no trouble leaving most vehicles at the lights wondering how a 4cl diesel in a 2 ton 4wd just beat them off the line.
Control comes down to the driver of which you have very little experience JR.

[Kevin B]

There you go, I felt it unnecessary originally to point out in a 300tdi auto conversation, that I was talking about 300tdi's. I don't know if you're a troll or a grammar nazi, or just in love with automatic transmissions.

But I've never liked any I've driven off road. That's personal preference.

Theres no need for name calling...

[Dougal]

What a load of crap, my tdi auto will leave a manual for dead and i have no trouble leaving most vehicles at the lights wondering how a 4cl diesel in a 2 ton 4wd just beat them off the line.
Control comes down to the driver of which you have very little experience JR.

From 0-50km/h an auto likely will win a sprint. Particularly if the turbo is laggy and an auto lets it stay on boost instead of dropping off with each gearchange in a manual.

[Tank]

I can understand exactly why you'd want to.
Basically people either like autos or they don't. I don't. That's the opinion side.

The fact side:
Manuals are more efficient. Compared to 4sp autos, a lot more efficient.
They give better engine braking.
They produce less heat.
Fewer oil lines and coolers.
They don't change gear when you don't want them to.

Minibloodhound. It's probably easiest to swap your entire pedal box too.
If you knew anything about autos you wouldn't make ridiculous claims.
First LR manual boxes have oil lines and coolers.
Second if you knew how to drive an auto you would know that you can put them in whatever gear you want and it will stay there till you decide to change (talking LR/ZF gearboxes).
Third an Auto doubles engine torque at stall revs, is easier on drivetrain components and actually puts more torque to the ground.
Fourth a clutch loses up to 75% of its torque until total lockup, is harder on drivetrain components.
Fifth try changing up or down a gear in a manual while climbing a steep climb hill without losing momentum.
Sixth, never had a problem with my auto downhill, you should learn how to lock-up the trans before going downhill.
What does it cost to buy a new/rebuilt 380, clutch/ pressure plate and in the case of the TD5, flywheel.
If you want to argue about Auto V Manuals at least get some facts right first, Regards Frank.

[minibloodhound]

Thanks for ll the replies, even the spirited ones:angel:
I currently have an auto D4 and there is a D1 for sale with an auto, but would prefer a manual gearbox. The D4 is actually the first automatic I've ever owned and if I got the D1 as a play truck I think a manual would be the way to go.
Still weighing up the pros and cons of the actual D1 in question, but we'll see what the Minister for War and Finance has to say.
Either that or one of the perenties! :twisted:

[minibloodhound]

FYI the vehicle in question is zuno555's Disco.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/10/428.jpg

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/vehicles-sale/183812-1996-discovery-300tdi-auto-camo-disco.html

[MR LR]

What a load of crap, my tdi auto will leave a manual for dead and i have no trouble leaving most vehicles at the lights wondering how a 4cl diesel in a 2 ton 4wd just beat them off the line.
Control comes down to the driver of which you have very little experience JR.
Oh that crap again, I remember you telling us all your 300tdi auto would blow the doors off a Commodore, bollocks, that's not even possible.

I've drag raced 300tdi auto's vs. manuals, and td5 autos's vs. manuals, the manual's always won.

I don't like them, I've found the manuals to be faster, and I prefer the control you get in a manual offroad. Thats MY choice.

I also love the fact that you're telling me that I'm an inexperienced driver because I can control a manual better LOL, that is DUMB. I can also drive a crash box, but I suppose that's just luck, being able to get the down change every time. And FYI I drove my auto though the gears 95% of the time, and 100% of the time off road.

[Kevin B]

Oh that crap again, I remember you telling us all your 300tdi auto would blow the doors off a Commodore, bollocks, that's not even possible.

I've drag raced 300tdi auto's vs. manuals, and td5 autos's vs. manuals, the manual's always won.

I don't like them, I've found the manuals to be faster, and I prefer the control you get in a manual offroad. Thats MY choice.

I also love the fact that you're telling me that I'm an inexperienced driver because I can control a manual better LOL, that is DUMB. I can also drive a crash box, but I suppose that's just luck, being able to get the down change every time. And FYI I drove my auto though the gears 95% of the time, and 100% of the time off road.


So the sum of your experience is "Drag Racing" a Landrover.... Riiiiiiiiigth...

[Dougal]

If you knew anything about autos you wouldn't make ridiculous claims.
First LR manual boxes have oil lines and coolers.

My manuals didn't have oil coolers or lines.


Second if you knew how to drive an auto you would know that you can put them in whatever gear you want and it will stay there till you decide to change (talking LR/ZF gearboxes).

Rubbish. It's an automatic because it changes gear AUTOMATICALLY. It changes down when you apply throttle even if you don't want it to and will only change up when it wants to.



Third an Auto doubles engine torque at stall revs, is easier on drivetrain components and actually puts more torque to the ground.
Fourth a clutch loses up to 75% of its torque until total lockup, is harder on drivetrain components.

Actually a clutch can lose 100%. That is exactly how they work.

Torque to the wheels depends on total gearing. The torque converter is an extremely inefficient way to increase torque and it does so at the expense of power and the production of a lot of heat.

Hence the oil coolers and lines so more of the energy you put in the tank gets lost as useless heat.


Fifth try changing up or down a gear in a manual while climbing a steep climb hill without losing momentum.

Try picking the right gear first.;)


Sixth, never had a problem with my auto downhill, you should learn how to lock-up the trans before going downhill.

I'll bet you use the brakes heavily. My ZF only locks up over about 85km/h on road in top gear. It can't be made to lockup downhill on over-run at slow speed.


What does it cost to buy a new/rebuilt 380, clutch/ pressure plate and in the case of the TD5, flywheel.
If you want to argue about Auto V Manuals at least get some facts right first, Regards Frank.

You've now introduced a TD5 flywheel to try to balance out the argument for a 300tdi automatic?:eek:

My facts are 100% right. Some you clearly didn't read (oil coolers & lines), others you've tried to divert the argument around.

[MR LR]

So the sum of your experience is "Drag Racing" a Landrover.... Riiiiiiiiigth...
The claim was made that a 300tdi auto accelerates faster than a manual, how else would you determine the truth?

That is not the summation of my experience, you are being ridiculous.

[Kevin B]

The claim was made that a 300tdi auto accelerates faster than a manual, how else would you determine the truth?

That is not the summation of my experience, you are being ridiculous.

Oh thats right lets not forget you gave your Landy a drink in 200mm of water.... Amatuer.

[Homestar]

There you go, I felt it unnecessary originally to point out in a 300tdi auto conversation, that I was talking about 300tdi's. I don't know if you're a troll or a grammar nazi, or just in love with automatic transmissions.

But I've never liked any I've driven off road. That's personal preference.

Wow, this thread has kicked on from this morning.:). I'm none of the above actually (well, maybe a bit of a grammar nazi;)) but I do own 4, 4 wheel drives - 2 manual and 2 auto. I accept that you may not like autos - that is personal preference, and I actually agree with you there, I prefer to drive a manual, but I was just picking you up on your sweeping generalisation that auto's have no control off road. I find on both my old RRC and my new L322, and other auto 4WD I have driven, that you have far more control than in a manual. The only downside I believe they have is that even locked into 1st, they don't give as much engine braking as a manual would. This is of course alleviated in the L322 by traction control and can be addressed in older vehicles with the use of a custom low stall torque converter.

So personal preferences aside, I was just pointing that out. :). No need for name calling either, it doesn't do anyone any good - that goes for everyone here that has posted - c'mon people, we don't need that sort of thing. Lets stick to a robust discussion that doesn't decent into the gutter. We're all (mostly) grown ups here that should be able to take a bit of criticism without taking it to heart. :)

Cheers - Gav

[MR LR]

Oh thats right lets not forget you gave your Landy a drink in 200mm of water.... Amatuer.
I'd accept being called a ****** over that... but otherwise I don't see your point? I'm sure you would have done some stupid things when you were young, on the plus I learnt how to re-build a diesel, I know what I did then was young and stupid, I've learnt, if anything it has given me more experience. Your point is moot, bugger off.

Gav, I apologise, the troll comment was not directed at you, in the sense I meant "are you trolling me", poor wording, it was not intended as a personal attack.

[Homestar]

No probs mate. :)

[Tank]

My manuals didn't have oil coolers or lines.



Rubbish. It's an automatic because it changes gear AUTOMATICALLY. It changes down when you apply throttle even if you don't want it to and will only change up when it wants to.




Actually a clutch can lose 100%. That is exactly how they work.

Torque to the wheels depends on total gearing. The torque converter is an extremely inefficient way to increase torque and it does so at the expense of power and the production of a lot of heat.

Hence the oil coolers and lines so more of the energy you put in the tank gets lost as useless heat.



Try picking the right gear first.;)



I'll bet you use the brakes heavily. My ZF only locks up over about 85km/h on road in top gear. It can't be made to lockup downhill on over-run at slow speed.



You've now introduced a TD5 flywheel to try to balance out the argument for a 300tdi automatic?:eek:

My facts are 100% right. Some you clearly didn't read (oil coolers & lines), others you've tried to divert the argument around.
You have no idea, do you, Regards Frank.

[Dougal]

You have no idea, do you, Regards Frank.

Great comeback.

[Homestar]

Second if you knew how to drive an auto you would know that you can put them in whatever gear you want and it will stay there till you decide to change (talking LR/ZF gearboxes).

Rubbish. It's an automatic because it changes gear AUTOMATICALLY. It changes down when you apply throttle even if you don't want it to and will only change up when it wants to.


Really??? You really think all autos works that way all the time? Have you ever even driven one? Try selecting some of those gears below the 'D' - you will be pleasantly surprised...

Or, maybe there's something wrong with the ZF in my RRC and the GM in my L322 - they stay in the gear I select when I want them too...:eek:

[Dougal]

Really??? You really think an auto works that way all the time? Have you ever even driven one? Try selecting some of those gears below the 'D' - you will be pleasantly surprised...

Yes I have driven and owned several. I have a RR ZF HP22 parked outside right now. Your comment doesn't in any way change or refute the statement you replied to.

You can select a lower gear in some gearboxes (computer controlled ones will over-ride you when you hit the prescribed rpm), selecting a gear higher than the gearbox wants to use does nothing. You have a limited range of throttle motion before the gearbox wants to either kick-down or try a higher gear (if available for that speed/load combination).
Remember this discussion is about the fully hydraulic ZF HP22 on a 300tdi.

This combination makes it impossible to use the best efficiency points of a diesel engine. Which is high load and rpm around max torque. Try to get max torque and it unlocks the TC and chops down a gear, sending rpm up and efficiency out the window.

*edit*
But yes, there probably is something wrong with the GM in your L322.
*shudder*.

[Rezley]

My 1996 300TDI doesnt have and oil cooler on it but my 1997 V8 does? - both manuals.

Should the 300TDI have a cooler?

[Homestar]

*edit*
But yes, there probably is something wrong with the GM in your L322.
*shudder*.

:Rolling::Rolling:I'll pay that one - there defiantly IS something wrong with that box....

[Tank]

Great comeback.
It's all you deserve, Regards Frank.

[*RR*]

Did I start something here??!! :wasntme:

I have a 300tdi auto, I would have preferred a manual, but it came up at the right price, so I grabbed it.

acceleration, I'm not sure, but it seems to out drag dad's 130 and his has a 3" pipe and 'cooler.

the auto should be much gentler on the drivetrain.

it can change up or down gears mid climb with losing momentum or risking breaking something.

it appears to get the same fuel consumption as dad's 130.

the old 4-speed ZF are very readily available, cheap to rebuild and generally bullet proof if you keep them cool (just like any auto).

I have perfect control over what gear it's in by using my right foot position. I know what position to have the pedal in to make it kick down, plua you can feel the kick down "switch" near the floor (WOT). You can also hold it in any gear using the selector.

the only downside is going down hill supposedly, but to be honest, if you hold it in low 1st it's a much of a muchness compared to the manual. Plus there are kits to operate the torque converter lock-up manually, so you can hold it any gear and have no slip through the converter.

[Kevin B]

I'd accept being called a ****** over that... but otherwise I don't see your point? I'm sure you would have done some stupid things when you were young, on the plus I learnt how to re-build a diesel, I know what I did then was young and stupid, I've learnt, if anything it has given me more experience. Your point is moot, bugger off.

Gav, I apologise, the troll comment was not directed at you, in the sense I meant "are you trolling me", poor wording, it was not intended as a personal attack.

My point is your arguing with ppl on here thats have forgotten more about landrovers than you will ever learn, how old are you 19, 20 maybe, im sorry but 2 years driving auto or manual, your still learning, sure I have done stupid things everyone has and no I would not clasify you as a ****** for that mistake, a ****** would have done it on purpose, an amatuer has no idea...

[bee utey]

I can't believe all the fuss over gearbox choice! Both auto and manual have strengths and weaknesses. Having driven manuals exclusively for 30 years I now have an auto and am quite happy with it. It does what it needs to do quite well. And if I get desperate for clutch shudder I still have the manual car to put back on the road one day.

Chill guys, it's a personal preference thing, not a federal election.:wasntme:

[MR LR]

Except a 300tdi doesn't have an electric auto gearbox, so the torque converter lock up is very exxy!

I liked my 300tdi auto for driving around town, but it would be unbearable with the number of highway k's I do ATM.

The thing I hates the most was it lurching, such as when rock crawling, it tended to lurch over obstacles, meaning you had to drive with two feet for any type of crawling, I like manuals in that respect, which is why I choose to drive them.

The fact that they don't lock up in 3rd makes hills on the highway rubbish, I'm also a lead foot, fuel consumption was woeful around town, I don't want to alter my driving style, so I chose to get a manual.

It's all just personal preferences, I've experienced both, I'd pick both for different tasks, but overall I prefer my manual.

Yes you did start something :p

Cheers
Will

[Kevin B]

Its good to have a fired up thread every now and again, keeps the forum healthy ....

:twobeers: beers all roung Gentlemen

Now back to back to Landrovers.....:D

[MR LR]

My point is your arguing with ppl on here thats have forgotten more about landrovers than you will ever learn, how old are you 19, 20 maybe, im sorry but 2 years driving auto or manual, your still learning, sure I have done stupid things everyone has and no I would not clasify you as a ****** for that mistake, a ****** would have done it on purpose, an amatuer has no idea...
Hah! 2 years.

I'm not your average 19 year old, anyone that knows me could tell you that.

I learnt to drive in a 1942 Jeep, from the age of 10, on a farm and it had no brakes. Can you drive a crash box? If not I bet I could out-drive you. I've also driven dad's veteran cars a lot (big ones), and I'd class it twice as hard as driving a road ranger (I drive the Mack around the farm).

I've been driving dune buggys for the last 7 years (on the farm), I built my own in 2010.

If you want to tell me I'm inexperienced, come and meet me, watch what I can do, and then re-evaluate me. Until then feel free to STFU. Not all 19 year olds are the same, I don't know anyone like myself, my age, just because I'm not old and grey doesn't mean I don't know a thing or two, I admit I've been wrong in the past, but the things I am confident in are practiced.

Also, drowning the car was being a ******, I was trying to re-create a photo! I'm the first to admit that, it taught me a lesson in maintenance though, fix the air box when it breaks, the new car has a snorkel, but I'm less of a ****** with regards to water now, learnt that lesson.

Please tell me what experience has to do with preferences.

[Kevin B]

Hah! 2 years.

I'm not your average 19 year old, anyone that knows me could tell you that.

I learnt to drive in a 1942 Jeep, from the age of 10, on a farm and it had no brakes. Can you drive a crash box? If not I bet I could out-drive you. I've also driven dad's veteran cars a lot (big ones), and I'd class it twice as hard as driving a road ranger (I drive the Mack around the farm).

I've been driving dune buggys for the last 7 years (on the farm), I built my own in 2010.

If you want to tell me I'm inexperienced, come and meet me, watch what I can do, and then re-evaluate me. Until then feel free to STFU. Not all 19 year olds are the same, I don't know anyone like myself, my age, just because I'm not old and grey doesn't mean I don't know a thing or two, I admit I've been wrong in the past, but the things I am confident in are practiced.

Also, drowning the car was being a ******, I was trying to re-create a photo! I'm the first to admit that, it taught me a lesson in maintenance though, fix the air box when it breaks, the new car has a snorkel, but I'm less of a ****** with regards to water now, learnt that lesson.

Please tell me what experience has to do with preferences.

Im not interested in meeting you or seeing what you can do, in my job ive seen plenty of you lot wrapped around trees, Generation Y(awn) are to selfcentered and think they know it all just look at the above, "ive done this, Ive done that"..Blah blah blah.... yawn

[*RR*]

Im not interested in meeting you or seeing what you can do, in my job ive seen plenty of you lot wrapped around trees, Generation Y(awn) are to selfcentered and think they know it all just look at the above, "ive done this, Ive done that"..Blah blah blah.... yawn

Well put, Kev.

[MR LR]

Im not interested in meeting you or seeing what you can do, in my job ive seen plenty of you lot wrapped around trees, Generation Y(awn) are to selfcentered and think they know it all just look at the above, "ive done this, Ive done that"..Blah blah blah.... yawn
Except I'm like no one else in my generation, no kidding. Why else would I come onto a Land Rover forum? If I was like the people you describe I'd own a VL Commodore and do drugs, I've never done either.

What is your job, 'oh wonderful lord and savior'? I haven't see you outline any experience!

I have no desire to meet you either, but I'll laugh when you ask me to winch you out one day.

[Homestar]

Except I'm like no one else in my generation, no kidding. Why else would I come onto a Land Rover forum? If I was like the people you describe I'd own a VL Commodore and do drugs, I've never done either.

What is your job, 'oh wonderful lord and savior'? I haven't see you outline any experience!

I have no desire to meet you either, but I'll laugh when you ask me to winch you out one day.

What! Never owned a VL Dunny Door! You don't know what you're missing...:D

[Disco Muppet]

What! Never owned a VL Dunny Door! You don't know what you're missing...:D

I'm not allowed to own one of those.
Sheerluck will attack me with a machete.
On my orders.
:p

[Kevin B]

Except I'm like no one else in my generation, no kidding. Why else would I come onto a Land Rover forum? If I was like the people you describe I'd own a VL Commodore and do drugs, I've never done either.

What is your job, 'oh wonderful lord and savior'? I haven't see you outline any experience!

I have no desire to meet you either, but I'll laugh when you ask me to winch you out one day.

I unlike you dont need to sell myself,

And I have my own winch...

[*RR*]

I unlike you dont need to sell myself,

And I have my own winch...

They don't seem to understand "modesty"...

[sheerluck]

I'm not allowed to own one of those.
Sheerluck will attack me with a machete.
On my orders.
:p

If I'm feeling lazy, I'll just hold the machete horizontally and let you run at it repeatedly. :D

[Disco Muppet]

If I'm feeling lazy, I'll just hold the machete horizontally and let you run at it repeatedly. :D

You might be sorely disappointed with the outcome :p

[sheerluck]

You might be sorely disappointed with the outcome :p

You mean you wouldn't keep running at the blade until you resembled the Black Knight? Disappointed wouldn't cover it. :p

Anyway....ahem...topic....errrr.....auto box, great, manual not so great.

(I think I just about covered it there Muppet ;))

[MR LR]

They don't seem to understand "modesty"...
You have to give some numbers when there's a bunch of old people on the internet that have the attitude that all young people are fence posts. I'm sick of it, just because people are old doesn't mean they have good experience. My life time of experience might have more good experience than a 50 year old's.

There a horrid attitude across this forum that the younger members amongst the ranks are all inexperienced fools, it's the same in a car club I have experience with, I will not name it. But at the end of the day, myself and others are the next generation of traditional land rover enthusiasts, we will carry the legacy, and we are getting lesser and lesser in numbers, specifically because the grey haired, altziemer ridden experts have no recognition for young adults (admittedly I have the same issue with people I dislike), so pretty soon everyone will bugger off and these communities will just go offshore.

Just because you're old, doesn't make you right, you might have 60 years of bad practice up your sleeve, a person my age will learn a lot faster than the older guys!

[*RR*]

You have to give some numbers when there's a bunch of old people on the internet that have the attitude that all young people are fence posts. I'm sick of it, just because people are old doesn't mean they have good experience. My life time of experience might have more good experience than a 50 year old's.

There a horrid attitude across this forum that the younger members amongst the ranks are all inexperienced fools, it's the same in a car club I have experience with, I will not name it. But at the end of the day, myself and others are the next generation of traditional land rover enthusiasts, we will carry the legacy, and we are getting lesser and lesser in numbers, specifically because the grey haired, altziemer ridden experts have no recognition for young adults (admittedly I have the same issue with people I dislike), so pretty soon everyone will bugger off and these communities will just go offshore.

Just because you're old, doesn't make you right, you might have 60 years of bad practice up your sleeve, a person my age will learn a lot faster than the older guys!

So walk away, dude! Don't argue, it just makes you look like a young know-it-all ******.

You're always going to come across people in your life that think just because they're old they know what they're talking about. Just nod, show respect, be polite and walk away.

I try and listen to what EVERYONE has to say, because you never know, you just might learn something new. Even if you don't, what do you have to lose?

[MR LR]

So walk away, dude! Don't argue, it just makes you look like a young know-it-all ******.

You're always going to come across people in your life that think just because they're old they know what they're talking about. Just nod, show respect, be polite and walk away.

I try and listen to what EVERYONE has to say, because you never know, you just might learn something new. Even if you don't, what do you have to lose?
I have considered it, I know others have, can't be long till they're dead and then I'm the cranky old bastard. By then I'll have 4 times the experience some of them do.

Kevin B pushed me over the edge of losing respect, for what reason? He just decided to pick a fight because he likes feeling good about himself by telling people they are wrong because they are young.

[*RR*]

I have considered it, I know others have, can't be long till they're dead and then I'm the cranky old bastard. By then I'll have 4 times the experience some of them do.

Kevin B pushed me over the edge of losing respect, for what reason? He just decided to pick a fight because he likes feeling good about himself by telling people they are wrong because they are young.

up to you, but I think you're a bit young to give up listening.

[MR LR]

up to you, but I think you're a bit old to give up listening.
Not quite sure what you mean there... I have a mathematical brain :p

There's 1 reason I wouldn't leave, and that's because there are a few members on here that genuinely are old and wise, and I spend hours and hours reading and learning, something no one else sees. In the last 4 years I've learnt so much from the collective knowledge on this site and others. Databases like this don't occur frequently, and that's why it draws users internationally. I have nothing but respect for Dave, who set this up, and the walking encyclopedia's that contribute day in, day out, and I love learning.

[Kevin B]

I have considered it, I know others have, can't be long till they're dead and then I'm the cranky old bastard. By then I'll have 4 times the experience some of them do.

Kevin B pushed me over the edge of losing respect, for what reason? He just decided to pick a fight because he likes feeling good about himself by telling people they are wrong because they are young.

I didnt say your were wrong, your entitled to you opinion as is everyone, you said your not the average person of your generation, that may be so, I steriotyped you based on y8ut responses, which is exactly what you did with auto boxes, there are some trick autos out there that will shame any manual, you then proceeded to attack everyone that questioned you, on the contrary not all people are wrong because there young, I work with some brilliant minded youg ppl but they also have the attitude to match, RR said walk away when one of us cranky bastards says something you dont like, then you will be the better person.

[*RR*]

Not quite sure what you mean there... I have a mathematical brain :p

There's 1 reason I wouldn't leave, and that's because there are a few members on here that genuinely are old and wise, and I spend hours and hours reading and learning, something no one else sees. In the last 4 years I've learnt so much from the collective knowledge on this site and others. Databases like this don't occur frequently, and that's why it draws users internationally. I have nothing but respect for Dave, who set this up, and the walking encyclopedia's that contribute day in, day out, and I love learning.

I meant "young". Bit tired!

You never stop learning! I love just reading these forums and learning new stuff, even if it is pointless stuff! lol

[MR LR]

I didnt say your were wrong, your entitled to you opinion as is everyone, you said your not the average person of your generation, that may be so, I steriotyped you based on y8ut responses, which is exactly what you did with auto boxes, there are some trick autos out there that will shame any manual, you then proceeded to attack everyone that questioned you, on the contrary not all people are wrong because there young, I work with some brilliant minded youg ppl but they also have the attitude to match, RR said walk away when one of us cranky bastards says something you dont like, then you will be the better person.
For christs sake, we are talking about stock 300tdi autos, that is what my comments are based on, this is in the Discovery 1 forum, not general chat.

I know there are trick autos, and there trick 'manuals' that will **** all over a torque converter.

I could drop it, as I have in the past, eventually you stand up for yourself. I still haven't heard of you having any qualifications other than being old.

[Kevin B]

I meant "young". Bit tired!

You never stop learning! I love just reading these forums and learning new stuff, even if it is pointless stuff! lol

The pointless stuff is often the best, it might not click straight away until you have read 3 or 4 poinless posts and put bits from each together, then bingo an answer..

[*RR*]

The pointless stuff is often the best, it might not click straight away until you have read 3 or 4 poinless posts and put bits from each together, then bingo an answer..

when I say "pointless" I mean not relevant to what I'm currently doing, but eventually I'll use it!

[rangietragic]

Of my 5 landrovers 3 are auto,2 are manual.I like both for different reasons.As for drag racing,my chipped td5 130 will do my chipped td5 auto d2.I don't know if they have the same chip though.Also my 130 has a 3" straight thru exhaust.Minibloodhound want's a manual.Let him have one,though imho unless his disco is a very good one,i'd rather buy a manual given how cheap d1's are now rather than go the swap route.As for the nasty theme of this thread,i like tea,not coffee and no amount of name calling can convince me otherwise,so CHILL OUT you blokes:mad: