A Defender is on the shortlist...

[rmp]

...for my next vehicle to replace my petrol Pajero, which is a great vehicle but I want a diesel, and more cargo room. So it'll either be a Defender or the 4.2tdi Patrol. But I've got a few questions for the Defender experts here, please. I'm looking at a brand new Defender Xtreme in 2004.

1. What are the must-do mods? Every vehicle has a few weak points, or just mods everybody does, before we branch out into personal-preference and standard stuff like snorkel, cargo barrier etc. For example, all Paj owners know the front bashplate needs reinforcing, and the 3.5L's alternator is too low and needs protecting, pretty much everyone goes up a tyre size etc etc. What do people always do with Defenders? eg, diff guards?

2. Why no footrest? I am bemused. Are there after market kits available?

3. Is the traction control any good? Can it be disabled? Can the ABS be disabled, do you need to?

4. How good is the airco? Does it need to be, can it be, upgraded?

5. I am interested in photos of how people have kitted out the interior, given the fact the Defender's interior is, ahem, somewhat different to the average Jappo 4WD. Specifically, GPS receivers, laptops, PDAs, radios etc.

6. Same for the back, I think the smallish rear door would be a problem for access?

7. The engine bay looks a little cramped. Is it easy to work on, for example replacing alternators, starter motors, oil changes, that sort of DIY home maintenance?

8. I noticed there was no soundproofing under the bonnet. Is this available, is it worth it? I'm not that fussed about the noise, but if there's an easy way to reduce it, why not.

9. Some people have commented that the TD5 lacks torque down low, and the turbo jumps in unexpectedly. On my test drive I found some waste ground and tried it, didn't seem to be a problem but I couldn't find anything really hilly, just some concrete lumps. Is this a problem?

10. Dust ingress. Have heard this to be a problem. Is there a solution, eg putting seals on the door as well as the ones on the body?

11. What are the best places for specialist servicing in Melbourne? My current 4WD shop knows nothing about Landrovers. I've seen several advertisements, but am after personal recommendations.

12. Where's a good place to look for roof consoles, door storage slots and interior storage stuff in general?

13. Is it true the revcounter is a dealer option? I know there are kits out there to replace the clock if not.

14. Has anyone fitted a cruise control, eg the Austron unit?

Well, that's what came to mind. My wife likes the Defender (considers it a *real* 4WD, whatever

that means) and it'll probably be our next vehicle. But I do need to understand what I'm getting into, so any assistance is much appreciated. And yes, I shall be visting my local LR club.

Many thanks for any help,

--
Robert

[edited to remove the additional linebreaks that somehow got in there]

[KEV0044]

...

[bigbugga]

Welcome to AULRO.

Personaly dont know a lot about the defender's.
My Disco has done me well in the time I have had it.

97 v8i discovery
I bought it in 2000
It was stock standard as if it was brand new(just some worn bit's)
Replaced the spring's and shock's
New tyres -Goodyear wrangler AT
Some side steps
Spring spacer's in the rear
and a few other bits and pecies and more on the way.

I have always liked the defender's but find them a bit cramped in the driver's seat. But I am not a little fella.
:twisted:

[lrdef110]

RMP, I agre with Kev. A Defender will be a bit of a culture shock at first. All the magazine writers bag the ergonomics of a Defender but they are a vehicle which 'grow' onto you. I reckon they are more comfortable on a long trip than many people give them credit for but as Kev says they are 'truck' like and do take a bit of getting used to.

I am on my 3rd Defender but have upgraded it a fair bit including Aerotech seats and Autron Cruise Control. The cruise control works wonders on the TD5 but I also have a Bruce Davis chip upgrade (about $850) which transforms the TD5 into a very driveable motor.

Forget all the crap the magazine writers say about Traction Control, unless you plan to spend most of your time on sand. My experience from some fairly difficult 4WDriving is that traction control does work in most cases and makes this one very capable vehicle. No wonder the Extreme won the low range segment of the 4WD Monthly Magazine 4WD of the year. Pity they bagged it for having the indicators on the left side for goodness sakes.

Also dont let the fullness of the under bonnet fool you. These are not any more difficult to service than other modern vehicles.

They do still have a dust problem though. Not necessarily from the door seals though, just gaps in the body work. When I bought mine home, I put it in the garage at night with a light inside and filled all the light beams with sealant from the outside. Worked wonders and am now dust free.

You will find most of the road noise comes from the rear well so as you fill this up the noise dissaptes. But I also fitted underbonnet insulation and this also helps.

Most TD5 motors have a potential electrolysis problem and I would recommend earthing the radiator to prevent this.

Best of luck with your decision.

[Phoenix]

Stop it you lot, you're making me want to go out and buy a new defender more than I already wanted to 8)

It is nice to hear something positive about the vehicle for a change however. I hope that it helps you make your choice Robert.

[KEV0044]

...

[rmp]

Thanks everyone.

I used to be concerned about reliability, but research indicated that the later models are fine, it's the earlier ones that you have to be careful of. I feel pretty safe with a 2003/4 Defender. I know there was an upgrade for 2002 with a stronger rear door, better airco etc.

I've driven Defenders before (and lightweights) in a previous life many years ago, so I'm aware of the culture shock. It's an attraction, to be honest. And I didn't miss the revcounter, I have to admit, but I'd rather have one than not!

The tyres will be replaced at the dealer for sure, probably with Cooper STs in the standard 235/75/16 size. I run Silverstone muddies on the Paj but what with the Defender's capability and traction control I think I can go ack to ATs, and the ST is a pretty aggressive AT anyway. I'll also change the wheels for steel, not keen on alloys. Also going on will be an ARB winch bar, dual battery, snorkel, cargo barrier, roofrack. That sort of thing is the standard 4WD setup. What I'm interested in is the Defender-specific mods people do.

I know the Defender is going to be very different to the Pajero, although with the mods I've done it's a bit further to "4WD" than most! Load space was a major factor, the Defender actually has more than the 100 Series.

Surfed over to http://www.highcountry4x4club.com/, checked out your vehicle. What's the chequerplate under the front? Is it a bashplate, or to help prevent dirt entering the engine bay? And the chequerplate on the sides; what's that for? Doesn't look like rock slider material, but I suspect it'd help?

Kev, I sent you a PM and also an email to your HighCountry4x4 address. PM me here if you didn't get that, I'm very interested in your reply!

Your vehicle looks very similar to how mine will, even the colour!

Cheers

--
Robert

[lrdef110]

RMP, tachos are available for the TD5 Defender as an option. I have one fitted beside the speedo, moved the fuel guage to where the original clock was and then fitted the original clock in the face of my overhead console.

Other specific mods for a Defender tend to be very personal in nature. I have fitted an aluminium checkerplate box in the well behind the left rear wheel to accomodate an air compressor and this wooks well. It is accessed from inside the vehicle and is therefore free from dust etc. See the photo under LRDEF110 in the gallery.

Also I got sick of constantly bending the rear panel so this has been faced with checker plate and incorporates a rear skid bar/step. This has stopped the damage from occuring and provides better access to the rear which is higher than standard due to a 50mm lift. It does not reduce the departure angle.

The plate Kev has on the front is to primarly protect the steering rods which are vulnerable. From 2002 the Defender came with a standard protection bar, but what Kev has done is stilll a good idea. It is also recommended to fit a diff protector plate if you are into the hard stuff. Graeme Cooper and others sell these.

I also replaced the Generals from new with 265 Cooper S/ts. They have served very well and after 57000 km's have at least another 20000 K's left. I also have 285 MTR's on a set of off set steel rims for 4WDriving and these perform excellently. 235 MTR's would be worth considering as a good all round tyre.

You should not regret your chioce.

Regards, Barry.

[rmp]

Thanks Barry. A few more questions for you, if you don't mind! I like my compressor to be portable, but where your is mounted looks like a good place for water storage, if the surrounding metalwork is strong enough?

I also note you've gone up a section width in tyres from 235 to 265 and 285. Have you found the wider tyres better off or on road?

The overhead console will be a definite, I think. Frees up some dash room. Where is yours from?

The sill protectors; can they be used as rocksliders/jacking points?

The rear panel looks neat. Is that something you made yourself or is available elsewhere?


OK, here's my list of mods for the experts to critique:

Must do
1. Front/rear diff guards
2. Steering protector
3. Cooper STs (in 235/85/16)
4. Cargo barrier
5. Roofrack (ARB's full-length jobbie, mesh floor. I like the idea of standing on it for a view)
6. Dual battery (deep cycle, extra outlets in the front for my GPS gear and the rear for the fridge etc)
7. Snorkel (have an Airtec on the Paj, that works, any recommendations?)
8. UHF radio in roof console
9. Long range tank (132L)
10. Front recovery point(s) (don't believe it comes with any?)
11. Towbar
12. Bullbar/sideprotectors/sillprotectors
13. Maximum window tint all round (love that)
14. Lightforce 240s
15. Rear recovery hooks (could use the towbar, but prefer hooks too)

Coming later
16. Revcounter
17. Cruise control
18. Suspension upgrade.

That'll take me back to where I am with the Pajero in terms of mods, even slightly beyond.

Looking forwards to getting more than 500km out of a full tank, too. What sort of range do people get out of the long range tanks?

Do people generally lift Defenders or just replace the shocks and coils? I'm typically carrying a lot of gear, eg Tirfor, major toolset, various recovery gear, and that's just the standard load before we add the stuff for trips like fridge, camping gear, extra spares etc. So I expect to need to replace the suspension in short order, although I understand it's better than the Japanese 4WDs. I'm thinking of a 50/30mm lift rear/front, so with all the gear it settles back down to the standard.

Also need to buy a repair manual to keep in the truck. What's the best ones for Defenders, is there anything better than the Haynes or Gregory's? Never really been a fan of either.

Thanks for all the help guys.

[KEV0044]

...

[rmp]

Thanks Kev, did you get my PM with my email address for your 3-page reply?

I like the chequerplate idea, I've done exactly that with my Pajero after wrecking two alternators due to mud ingress. Haven't had to replace one since.

[KEV0044]

...

[lrdef110]

Robert to convert the space behind the rear left wheel for a water tank would require a special frame as the weight would be too great for what I have done. I have 'Outback' roller drawers and this fits neatly over the compressor. My idea is to fit a water tank under the rear seat to keep the weight as low as possible, but a tank behind the wheel should work well if adequately supported.

Yes I went for 265 S/T's but I would probably settle for 235's if I had my time over again. The 285 MTR's work well for 4WDriving though as they air down to the low teens without a hint of coming off the rim and give a fairly massive footprint. I prefer them to the BFG Muddies I had previously.

A friend & I built the rear bar and panel. I had these powdercoated to tiz them up a bit. The bar is strong enough to use for jacking but I use a hydralic jack so this was not part of the design critera.

Don't know anything about Airtec snorkles. Mines a LandRover/Safari.

I fitted a RONO Console (advertised in all the magazines) which runs accross the car. This fittment requires a slight lowering of the sunvisors and if I did this again I'd probable make my own running at a right angle to the mirror so as to retain full windscreen vision. Shouldn't be too hard.

The front tie down loops have to be replaced with proper tow hooks and you should get enough lift out of 50mm longer springs without having to lift the body. In Qld we are not allowed to do a body lift if the longer springs are fitted.

I am averaging somewhere between 11 to 12 litres/100 km depending on the conditions. With a 127 litre Long Ranger tank it gives a range of just under 1000k's leaving a bit in the tank to lubricate the fuel pump.

Barry

[KEV0044]

...

[rmp]

Thanks again, guys. I'm pleased I found this forum!

I am also a fan of Bilstein shocks. They've been great in the Paj, so I'll maintain brand loyalty. Might swap in some taller coils though, but not an initial priority.

I will be breaking new ground with my club. When people change from a Pajero they generally go to a Patrol or a Prado, sometimes a 100 Series. As far as I know we have no Defenders and only one Discovery. But there are three of us interested in Defenders (including one very $&#$ off 100 Series owner, soon to be ex-100 Series owner), so we will be descending on a dealership and asking to take one out for the day. Could be three sales!

The LR dealership is also very different to the average Yota or Nissan dealerhip. In all three cases I've walked in saying "I want a diesel 4WD". The Yota dealership wouldn't let me test drive a 100 Series unless I virtually promised to buy it on the spot. Their novated lease people took details of the quote but never called me back.

Nissan dealers don't know about the concept of sales, either. Same sort of deal; if you don't come into the dealership begging them they won't sell you the vehicle. Tried three times to get a TD6 to drive, no joy. Never mind.

And their vehicle knowledge? Well, they can just about tell the difference between their own models. But I asked for a live-axle diesel 100 Series and the salesguy asked if I wanted a turbo. If he knew his own range he wouldn't have asked that; pointed out all turbos were IFS. He then offered me a petrol 100 Series. I shouldn't have mentioned the live axle, confused the hell out of him. Ended up going for a drive in a Standard, which is the part-time 4WD mechanism. He suggested that I engage 4WD "to improve handling". Riiiight. I was tempted to follow his instructions but decided against winding up or the transmission up any further.

I don't expect 4WD enthusiasts at these places but you do expect people with a vague clue about what they're selling other than it being a bit of metal on wheels. For example, the displacement of the engine, the basics of the transmission.

Landrover. Went along, got an UNSUPERVISED test drive, no questions, no grief about "are we doing business today". Free (decent) coffee. A ride around the test track. Asked about mechanicals. The salesgirl then got a mechanic to spend 20 minutes with me under, over and around the Defender, even taking some of the plastic engine stuff off. So I was pretty well convinced it wasn't as hard as I thought to take bits off in the bush. And they had a guy there who actually knew about 4WDs. He guaranteed me a dust problem, by the way, but it looks like there's a way around that. We had a longish conversation about Defenders.

What a difference. If it was just on customer care alone Yota and Nissan wouldn't sell another car, ever.

[Timmo]

Like phoenix, this thread is making me keen to go and buy a defender 90. And I'd just convinced myself to keep the disco for another year too.

[rmp]

Originally posted by Timmo
Like phoenix, this thread is making me keen to go and buy a defender 90. And I'd just convinced myself to keep the disco for another year too.

So trade it in!

The Chatswood Landy/Volvo dealership has a lonely looking D90 outside. I'm sure it needs a test drive, poor thing.

Did you see the 4WD Monthly comparo re D90, Wrangler, Jimny? The Defender didn't lose!

[Phoenix]

Geez roberty, you really got some attention at the dealer. If all of the dealers were like that, there would be far less yotas on the road I reakon.

I haven't seen the review with the jimny, defender and wrangler.

I have seen one between the wrangler and the 90, and it actually criticised the wrangler for not being tough enough (driveline and suspension parts) 8O

Maybe I can convince the missus to drive a defender :wink:

[rmp]

The Defender/Wrangler/Jinmy review is issue 62 of 4WD Monthly. Coming to a newsagent near you very, very soon, next day or so.

[Phoenix]

I'll have to keep an eye on the newstands then 8)

[Timmo]

Will buy the magazine anyway - not sure bout a new car just yet. Have you ordered yours yet Robert?

[snailbait]

I have a 2001 see (gallery) Defender I call it Snailbaite and it has done everthing I have asked it to do. I spent 2 hols of 9 days camping in the High Countryof Vic the Apline Nat Prk is terrific better than Nsw Nat Park high country, where the roads are steep and rocky where you go from aprox 500 mt to 1500 to 1750 met in a mater of 6 ks this is steep. Also
i have taken it down to Port Lincon in SA and then across to Oonadatta track then to Simpson desert , Birdsville Camerons cnr Tib, Bourke then to home to the Blue Mtns .
On these three trips and more its was long ks per day any thing from 350 to 700 ks per day and they were long days leave at 8 am stop at 5pm and the ride was terrific no sore backs sitting in the seats for so long each day to achive the trip
ABS Get some one to show you how this braking system works all the new vehicles are fitted with ABS and when i do Driver training i show the novice 4 wheel driver how it works basicly it can save lives because you can push the brake pedel to the floor and the wheels do not lock up and you can steer around the problem i know this sounds wacky but get a vehicle and try it
Eltronic Traction Control ETC This is part of ABS and works together with ABS what it does is stops the wheel from turning and through the dif puts the drive to the wheell thats not turning this workds best when the centre diff lock is engaged and ETC does not work above 50 ks hr it is simaler to rear dif air lockers but it comes std with Defender Extreme with 2004 Defender Extreme comes central locking, electric front side windows AC is also strong enough but the rear seats are for kids on a long trip not Adults they are a bit cramped
Crumpled rear Quater can be avoided by fitting higher lift or ride hieght springs and shocks it does not raise the diff height but the body height
is raised i use a spring that is of larger wire dia the free height is the same as the std springs but the ride height is 35 mm higher
Terry

[rmp]

Originally posted by Phoenix
Geez roberty, you really got some attention at the dealer. If all of the dealers were like that, there would be far less yotas on the road I reakon.

I haven't seen the review with the jimny, defender and wrangler.

I have seen one between the wrangler and the 90, and it actually criticised the wrangler for not being tough enough (driveline and suspension parts) 8O

Maybe I can convince the missus to drive a defender :wink:

Next year is the Defender for me. Myself and two others (maybe more) are going down the LR dealership and demanding a Defender for a day.

[fernockulated]

:roll: style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif I'm starting to get ( land rover ) green with envy !!!
Might have to think about trading in the toyosan for a defender , do they come in ute formation? pardon my igorance , but have spent most attention on series landys, not later stuff, but defenders look very similar, so am looking at a work horse replacement in a couple of years , and if little johnny can help pay for it ,why not? :wink:

[rmp]

Originally posted by fernockulated
:roll: :lol: I'm starting to get ( land rover ) green with envy !!!
Might have to think about trading in the toyosan for a defender , do they come in ute formation? pardon my igorance , but have spent most attention on series landys, not later stuff, but defenders look very similar, so am looking at a work horse replacement in a couple of years , and if little johnny can help pay for it ,why not? :wink:

The Defender is available in Australia as:

- 110 Xtreme
- 90 Xtreme
- 130 dual-cab ute. Not Xtreme, so no TC and ABS.

You can see an example here:

http://www.boilingbilly.com.au/exploreaust...4wd/vehicle.htm (http://www.boilingbilly.com.au/exploreaustraliaby4wd/vehicle.htm)

which has gone round most of Australia with no problems at all.

[fernockulated]

8) wow, just checked out that site , and I want one NOW! Dont want to wait for a couple of years,hmmmm mr howard ,mate cobber digger buddy pal, can I have one ,pleeeeeeeease? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

[rmp]

Xtreme 90
http://carpoint.ninemsn.com.au/nci/NCIMain...rice=45950%2E00 (http://carpoint.ninemsn.com.au/nci/NCIMainOverview.asp?ID=20031025%2E16%3A17%3A57&make=LAND+ROVER&model=DEFENDER&price=45950%2E00)

Xtreme 110
http://carpoint.ninemsn.com.au/nci/NCIMain...rice=47950%2E00 (http://carpoint.ninemsn.com.au/nci/NCIMainOverview.asp?ID=19990222%2E10%3A18%3A15&make=LAND+ROVER&model=DEFENDER&price=47950%2E00)

Crewcab
http://carpoint.ninemsn.com.au/nci/NCIMain...rice=49450%2E00 (http://carpoint.ninemsn.com.au/nci/NCIMainOverview.asp?ID=20020313%2E08%3A42%3A32&make=LAND+ROVER&model=DEFENDER&price=49450%2E00)

Pickup
http://carpoint.ninemsn.com.au/nci/NCIMain...rice=50950%2E00 (http://carpoint.ninemsn.com.au/nci/NCIMainOverview.asp?ID=19990225%2E09%3A21%3A27&make=LAND+ROVER&model=DEFENDER&price=50950%2E00)

Why would Jonny H buy you a Defender?

[fernockulated]

:roll: being self employed and a "work vehicle " all payments are tax deductions, so therefore in a round about way johnny h is paying for it!
:wink: :roll: 8) 8O

[fernockulated]

8O gotta go get a sludge pump for the drool under the desk after checking out that last lot! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif :wink:

[rmp]

Well I started this thread to ask about a Defender I was going to buy...I make that three other that are thinking about it now, plus the guys from my club!

Right...I'm asking LR for comission!

(haven't even bought the damn thing yet!)

[KEV0044]

...

[rmp]

Originally posted by KEV0044
Hi !! Robert ,
Just picked up your link to your GPS website - well done !!
I will pick up a copy of your new book asap !!
I have just uploaded some photos to the 'Gallery' page five - of the things
you were interrested in :-
GPS mounting to the windscreen - adapting a normal rear vision mirror mount .
Rear recovery hitch - using the Warn winch accessory adaptor .
Specifically designed and manufactured - High Lift Jack adaptor - for the Land Rover Spec. front and rear bars .
I designed this myself and had it manufactured in a metal engineering workshop .
Please have a look at the photos in the gallery - - and get back to me with any further questions .
Kev .

Thanks Kev. Of course I have questions!

1. Are those Lightforces the 240s? How do you rate them?
2. Is the chequerplate on the bonnet required before you can stand on it, or is it just for traction?
3. I notice you've got an aftermarket (Kaymar?) rear wheel carrier. Is yours a pre 2002 model, ie without the strenghtened door in 2002 onwards?
4. Can I put your GPS mount pic on my website? I don't have any Landrovers up there at the moment.

Hope you enjoy the book!

Neat HLJ kit, too.

[KEV0044]

...

[rmp]

Originally posted by KEV0044
Robert ,
Light Force 240's are fantastic !! and the real benefit here is that they are totally adjustable from pencil beam to wide beam - at the flick of the wrist .
The K-Mar Rear Wheel Carrrier is a " must do " for all Defenders - - even
the new 2003 model with the steel door . (it takes the 'active' load off the hinges )
No problem with using the GPS photos on your website .
Cheers mate ,
Kev .

OK, looks like I need to add the Kaymar to the list too. But not immediately, a bit later on.

You're up on the website in "Installations".

Cheers