Is this the end of "Real" 4x4's ?

[Phoenix]

http://www.drive.com.au/news/article.asp?a...FX254WCNND.html (http://www.drive.com.au/news/article.asp?article=http://drive.fairfax.com.au/content-new/news/general/2003/12/01/FFX254WCNND.html)

Read the article. It doesn't look very promising style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif

[rmp]

It looks like the end of cars as we know it.

Personally I'd rather see the effort go into safer roads and drivers; preventing a collision in the first place.

I think 4WDs may become a special-license, restricted km vehicle.

And as for "Kangaroos could be unintended beneficiaries of new laws to make car design more pedestrian-friendly" -- you're kidding. A roo is dead if it hits a vehicle, bullbar or not. The bullbar is there is ensure the vehicle can keep moving, not the roo.

Ironic that a Discovery advert was there when I read it.

Expect to see further restrictions on mods. Lifting vehicles will throw out all those "..complex mathematical formulas of bonnet slope and height."

[Phoenix]

Like someone on another forum said, spend the money educating pedestrians on not walking on the road.

My favorite quote on this topic in that forum was.

"I don't drive on the footpath, so stay off the road"

[fernockulated]

:evil: Once again the bleeding heart do-gooders,who have no idea of reality, strike again!!One of them has obviously lost a relative or similar to a vehicle with a bullbar on it and immediatly blames the bullbar for there loss! When will they get of the grass and wake up and smell the roses? why dont they push for better driver ed. in schools, or better still ,make licence testing more rigourus(?)so that you actually know how to DRIVE b4 you can get a licence! These guys should come out and live in the bush for a while with there beamers and mercs , and try avoiding roos' and black cattle grazing on the side of the road at nite, or better still, I would love to see them push a fallen tree off the road with there soft crumple zone toys (they dont deserve to be called cars!)sure restrict them in the burbs , but leave the bushies alone ! 8O

[LRHybrid100]

I personally think there should be another licence class for driving 4WD - just like trucks over a certain weight have.

If we say, anything over 1.5 Tonnes and 4WD then another class of licence is needed - this will reduce the number of North Shore shopping trollies / Toorak Tractors.

Why is that women with a couple of kids automatically think that they have to have a 4WD to drop little Jonny off at school - then drop him off on the incorrect side of the road and he then has to still cross the road!!!

Any other usggestions?

[Phoenix]

the 4x4 calss of licence for 4wd vehicles over a certain weight (so that silly things like CRV's don't get into the clasification) would be an awsome idea I think. That way you can say that you have erant the qualification to drive a 4x4, and that you are aware of the differences in driving a Land Rover, compared to a Ford Lazer.

[fernockulated]

:roll: Excelent idea!!!!A seperate class for 4wd vehicles would sort out the real OFF-roaders from the SOFT-roaders, and maybe even sort out some of the showponies as well! 8)

[-Macca-]

Seperate Licensing - Good Thing™

People in the 'burbs who use a 4x4 as a daily runaround need to be told.

I live in the 'burbs (just) and drive a RR. I also have a Common-dore for my daily grind (I work on site, so do too many km's for it to be viable to drive the rangy everyday anway!). Even if I could drive the rangy everyday, I wouldn't. It's too much of a pain in the ass.

I'm getting a big sticker made up for the rear tailgate of the rangy - "Did you know your 4wd can go offroad?"

People who use a 4wd exclusively on road are one of my pet peeves.

Hope I haven't offended anyone!

-Macca

[LRHybrid100]

Originally posted by Macca&#045;


I'm getting a big sticker made up for the rear tailgate of the rangy - "Did you know your 4wd can go offroad?"

-Macca

Where can I get one of these??? Would look great on my beat up RaRo

[one_iota]

This was my take on a similar topic on another forum:

"If banning bull bars is the answer what is the question?

Is it to do with pedestrian safety? If so then:

Why do some pedestrians have less road sense than a roo?

The characteristics seem to be walking off the footpath into on coming traffic without looking right, left then right again. Standing in the middle of the road oblivious to the danger of being hit.

I think it is time for the Government (and investigative journalism) to step in:

All pedestrians should be licenced through a 3 year process with L and P plates tested by registered examiners in theory and practical tests.

L platers must be accompanied by a licensed pedestrian at all times

On the granting of a licence the licensed pedestrian must display a registration licence and wear light clothing with no protruding objects (back packs). This will be inspected annually with pink slips and fees at the registery.

12 demerit points will apply except over deemed periods when double demerit points will apply.

Don't Walk cameras will be installed at all traffic lights and fines and demerit points will be applied.

J walkers will be fined heavily.

If they happen to encounter a vehicle with a bull bar at 40 km + then the question should be asked: what were they doing on the road in the first place. I don't drive on the foot path. With or without a bull bar what difference would this impact have.

BTW I don't have a bull bar and I have been really scared driving on the road more by pedestrians than by motor vehicles."

[rmp]

If I were transport minister:

- The driving license would include extra emergency stops, skid control, observation tests, car sympathy, driving economically, basic maintenance, first aid, some theory eg ABS, and all the stuff done in advanced driving such a wheel grip.

- you'd need to take it every 3 years (the test)

- the top 10% would get insurance discounts

- bottom 10% get a red flashing light on their roof

- you'd need a special license to drive trailers, 4WDs, forward control vehicles. Right now you can pass in an Excel, then drive a Suburban with a trailer. Hmm. 4WD test would just involve understanding of the extra vehicle and ensuring we don't have people driving around with centre diffs locked etc.

- speed limits would be 10% lower in the wet

- if you can't do the maths you lose your license

- there would be a special squad of police cars that find people who don't move over to the left, pull them out of their cars, administer a swift kick in the gonads and then let them drive on. Females...well I'm sure we could think of something.

- there would be usability ADRs on car stereos

- speeding cameras would be signposted clearly and in places where they're needed registration and other taxes lowered, as we'd be making a shedload of $ out of all the extra licenses and renewals

- pedestrians would be reinforced to cope with impact to cars

- anyone leaving more than 1m between cars when parallel parking has to retake their test

- ditto for anyone breaking the 2 second rule

- alcohol limit goes to 0%

- special 4WD only lanes on the highway

- police cars would have to obey the road laws except during an emergency. If they didn't we'd find all the people who had been kicked in the nuts for not moving over and even things up.

and on the second day I'd think of some more improvements :-)

[LRHybrid100]

totally agree with rmp's views - especially those who do not keep left!!!

[fernockulated]

:idea: :roll: Don't know why I didn't think of this earlier!
This would keep BB in his job in the mattress shopfor ever!!!


Why don't we just wrap all cars in double bed mattresses, so all pedestrians will just bounce off, added bonus that if you get tired driving just pull over and hey presto, instant bed!

But on a more serious note ,if they make the front of vehicles more crumplier, what happens when a collision occurs with another vehicle ,or worse a wall, then what , ban all walls???????


wake up to reality, peds on footpath ,cars on road, keep em separate ,no problems!!! :wink:

[Phoenix]

And times haven't changed much, not have the names!

[Lotz-A-Landies]

:idea: :roll: Don't know why I didn't think of this earlier!
This would keep BB in his job in the mattress shopfor ever!!!

Why don't we just wrap all cars in double bed mattresses, so all pedestrians will just bounce off, .....Not a completely good idea, as the pedestrians bounce off the mattress then would hit the road injuring themselves and still the 4WD will get the blame.

Better to have Velcro covered mattresses and the pedestrians would just stick to the car, giving you time to pull over and stop, then peel them off and send them on their way un-injured. :D :D

Serious stuff this car V pedestrian issue. It is all in the physics (dynamics) of the accident. Young children get run over (causing all manner of other injuries) while adults get run under. Fitting a traditional bull-bars to cars and 4WD turn adults into children in terms of the dynamics of the incident.

The last bit of the story that never gets mentioned, because it doesn't suit the anti-4WD protagonists, is that fitting the traditional bull bar means that the dynamics of the scenario is the same as a pedestrian being hit by a forward control van or a truck.

Diana

[willem]

I can't read the article in 'Drive', because its been removed, but what seems to have been forgotten, or deliberately ignored, by many of the anti-bullbar mob, is that most modern bullbars follow the shape of the parent vehicle pretty accurately, and so an impact from the bullbar actually emulates that of an impact from the car itself. The bullbar on my P38 is at the same height and has almost the same profile as the original bumper. The upright part of the bar curves back at exactly the same angle as the front of the car, and it is made up of a 3 inch diameter aluminium pipe so it is curved and will cause a minimum of damage.

But if you hate bullbars you will hate bullbars, no matter what design they are. That's the problem.

Willem

[Sprint]

i put it down to darwinism and natural selection..... you step out in front of me, you fail natural selection!

[spudboy]

- bottom 10% get a red flashing light on their roof

:-)

Brilliant idea. Get that man a banana :p

[Scallops]

i put it down to darwinism and natural selection..... you step out in front of me, you fail natural selection!

I'd say that is precisely the process of NS working. ;)

[flagg]

As someone who has been hit by a car I may be able to provide some special advice to pedestrians:

KEEP OFF THE BLOODY ROAD WHEN YOU SHOULDN'T BE THERE.

Its pretty a simple idea, and since my rather quick lesson on the matter I've found it a very effective principle to follow.

Harm minimisation is great, and I agree that things like fishing rod tubes are not OK in urban areas but there really needs to be more personal responsibility for pedestrians. As it stands I think legally a pedestrian always has right of way (correct me if I'm wrong here) and I actually think that should change.

BTW, id be interested to know what percentage of people hit by cars are run over by a Taxi while drunk..

[blitz]

I thought the whole reason for a "bullbar" was so that you could hit multiple pedesdrians without damaging your car???? and a 4WD so you can back up over them to see of they are ok.

Sorry but you cant legislate against stupidity - 2.5t 4wd or 100t road train against pedestrian or 1t car against pedestrian the weight ratio is so much that it is a moot point. All we are looking at is are you a little bit dead for walking in front of my car or a lot dead for walking in front of my car!!

rather live bush anyway, hope this doesnt offend but I hate cities with a passion to many drongoes trying to tell me how to live my life and whats good for me and sooooo many bloody rules nar give me the bush any day, in fact if I could get a job on a station in the middle of nowhere even better

[George130]

Article has gone so I havn't read it but I will stick with my argument about the ban 4Wd's.
Ban bull bars in the city but also ban any vehicle from the country that doesn't have a bull bar:twisted:.

Love to see a bicycle with a bull bar:D:D:D

[Lotz-A-Landies]

AS I've said before and it has been said by others on this forum and in this thread.

There are people out there, read Harold Scruby and his ilk, that want to ban 4WD and will use any excuse whether the research statistics are there or not. The bullbar is just one aspect, it is the same as the 4WD running over small children in the driveway. The data is collected as "large car", which includes, people movers, 4WD, softroaders, white vans, station wagons etc. Mostly the injury statistics don't differentiate and yet the statistic is most usually reported as 4WD because it suits the needs of the argument.

All we can do is to remain within the design rules, drive safely and hopefully don't run _ _ _ er* any pedestrians. The rest will take care of itself in one way or other, there's no point getting anxious about it.

Diana

* insert "over" or "under" which ever is appropriate.

[DiscoStew]

Pedestrians in the city on their mobile phones are a major problem. It seems that they cannot actually think with one of these devices at their ear. Every other week I see one step out onto the road without looking at all.

Why is it that people can talk face-to-face with someone and still be aware of their surroundings but once on the phone they cannot?

[Captain_Rightfoot]

I agree with pretty much everything said here.

It does interest me all this given that they have just lowered the speed limit to 40kph in Brisbane city. I expect this will spread to all urban areas soon enough.. and then they will start dropping places to 30. :o

Pretty soon the most dangerous thing a pedestrian will be able to do is walk into my stationary bull bar while they are twittering on their mobile. This will then be classified as a "twingery" and the vehicle owner will then be responsible for wrapping his vehicle in padding before leaving it parked. :mad:

Just another angle on the special 4wd licence. I think it's a great idea. However if it were to happen I think you will find "real" 4wds will be initially cheaper as they flood the market from people who don't want to get their licence. Eventually they will be more expensive as no manufacturer will be bothered importing them. Australia isn't a big market.

[martinozcmax]

Seperate Licensing - Good Thing™

People in the 'burbs who use a 4x4 as a daily runaround need to be told.

I live in the 'burbs (just) and drive a RR. I also have a Common-dore for my daily grind (I work on site, so do too many km's for it to be viable to drive the rangy everyday anway!). Even if I could drive the rangy everyday, I wouldn't. It's too much of a pain in the ass.

I'm getting a big sticker made up for the rear tailgate of the rangy - "Did you know your 4wd can go offroad?"

People who use a 4wd exclusively on road are one of my pet peeves.

Hope I haven't offended anyone!

-Macca

Can't agree, love my Disco. Never been off road the closest it gets is towing the boat off the ramp. Been driving them for 13 years now, don't know why they have to go offroad to be appreciated. :( D1 Tdi on gas and diesel, great vehicle !!

[Gold_TD5]

I think the biggest problem now days is we are living in a society where we have to blame somebody for someone else's misfortune or stupidity.
Someone walks out front of your 4WD and dies, lets ban 4WD's with bull bars.
So it's then your fault for owning a 4WD with a bull bar, not the F@#KWIT who's own inattentive behavior caused there own demise.
Governments find it easier to legislate rather the educate.

[mopar]

Can't agree, love my Disco. Never been off road the closest it gets is towing the boat off the ramp. Been driving them for 13 years now, don't know why they have to go offroad to be appreciated. :( D1 Tdi on gas and diesel, great vehicle !!
if its been purchased for towing then i think thats ok. but if it was just purchased for use as an everyday car then why? rav 4s etc arent realy 4x4's and i still cant see the point in owning one if you dont have the need (ie a slippery driveway or needing to get onto muddy worksite or something.

agree with everything else here except the 0% alchohol limit as posted earlier. im on my p plates and have a 0.00% alchohol limit and it sucks. you cant have a beer after work. cant have a quiet one down the pub then drive. and if you realy hit the **** you cant drive for most of the next day. and the worst bit is that im 18 (i believe it should be raised to .02 or even .01 like it used to be for p platers) but only after you have been on your p plates for a year regardless of age (so that those who need/want to get their licence earlier benifit. the ones who wait till their 20 to get their licence still have to wait the year)

[CowsGoMoo]

Bring back Hector the cat!

YouTube - Hector the Cat

I generally don't drive through Sydney CBD after 06:30 AM, however I wanted to vist the Vivid Sydney thing on Friday night so I went for a little drive into the Rocks.

Got to be ground zero for pedestians with a death wish. There are more marked pedestian crossings than I remember but does anyone use them? Way to hard to walk the extra 20ft to the crossing.

[Phoenix]

Wow, you drag back one VERY old thread and look what happens :lol2:

[dullbird]

if its been purchased for towing then i think thats ok. but if it was just purchased for use as an everyday car then why? rav 4s etc arent realy 4x4's and i still cant see the point in owning one if you dont have the need (ie a slippery driveway or needing to get onto muddy worksite or something.

agree with everything else here except the 0% alchohol limit as posted earlier. im on my p plates and have a 0.00% alchohol limit and it sucks. you cant have a beer after work. cant have a quiet one down the pub then drive. and if you realy hit the **** you cant drive for most of the next day. and the worst bit is that im 18 (i believe it should be raised to .02 or even .01 like it used to be for p platers) but only after you have been on your p plates for a year regardless of age (so that those who need/want to get their licence earlier benifit. the ones who wait till their 20 to get their licence still have to wait the year)

well I will go against the grain here and say why not? why own a skyline, porche or an aston why own anything that can do 0-6 in less than 6 seconds why have the fast cars when the speed limit apart from the northen territory is 110kph....and around the burbs and the city 50kph
I think people should be able to drive what they like the look of, feel comfortable in perhaps have confidence in...just because we use our cars in the way that we do does not give us any right to dictate to people what they should and shouldn't drive. As they shouldn't us because they dont drive 4b's also doesn't give them the right to tell us we can't drive them.

[Mudsloth]

Its a conspiracy to get huge fees out of 4wders when we need to call the SES to rescue us from a bog hole in the middle of nowhere. Why are we bogged? Because the winch is still attched to the bullbar we had to remove!!!!
We need to be more vocal, call your local mp, if we can out voice the do gooders then we win.

[lardy]

This was my take on a similar topic on another forum:

"If banning bull bars is the answer what is the question?

Is it to do with pedestrian safety? If so then:

Why do some pedestrians have less road sense than a roo?

The characteristics seem to be walking off the footpath into on coming traffic without looking right, left then right again. Standing in the middle of the road oblivious to the danger of being hit.

I think it is time for the Government (and investigative journalism) to step in:

All pedestrians should be licenced through a 3 year process with L and P plates tested by registered examiners in theory and practical tests.

L platers must be accompanied by a licensed pedestrian at all times

On the granting of a licence the licensed pedestrian must display a registration licence and wear light clothing with no protruding objects (back packs). This will be inspected annually with pink slips and fees at the registery.

12 demerit points will apply except over deemed periods when double demerit points will apply.

Don't Walk cameras will be installed at all traffic lights and fines and demerit points will be applied.

J walkers will be fined heavily.

If they happen to encounter a vehicle with a bull bar at 40 km + then the question should be asked: what were they doing on the road in the first place. I don't drive on the foot path. With or without a bull bar what difference would this impact have.

BTW I don't have a bull bar and I have been really scared driving on the road more by pedestrians than by motor vehicles."

the only way the government would intervene would be to knock such activities as of owning a 4B on the head, next would come the draconian law of not allowing any of the last remaining 4B owners to go bush for fear of damaging the landscape even though any sensible person would tread lightly and endeavour to leave no footprint, It seems to be the case in the u.k. at the moment.
they are closing green lanes at a rate of knots.
Forgot to mention when Bluey went over the pits the officious ***** made me cut the bullbar off either side of the lights the brushguards and the side steps