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BlackAdder
9th December 2003, 10:43 AM
Ok all you Defender and Td5 owners! What can you tell me about them?

I am in the market for a new vehicle. I am very impressed with the Defender 130 Crew Cab Td5 and have already spoken to one owner (hijacked him in the car park of a fruit shop), he gave me some feedback, good and bad with the ultimate answer being "Yes" when I asked if he would buy another one.

I want to get away, you know the dream, Cape York, Simpson Desert, etc etc etc. I have a young family, wife and 3 kids, aged 9, 5 & 1 (that's not the wife of course) and for the wife, a 3 star hotel is slumming it, so I have to make the transition to camping gentle and enjoyable. I thought about doing up my Pajero NM so that the comfort level was there, but after investigating the possibilities found it would only be a weak compromise. Then I saw a Dual Cab HiLux which looked alright but the IFS put me off. After a bit of looking around the Defender 130 looks like the go. I see potential for a comfortable, versatile solution in the Dual Cab. I love fishing as does my eldest son and I would look at adding a 3.5m tinny to the roof, as well as a storage pod to the tray.

I suppose what I am after is everything and everybody's knowledge or experiences with Defender 130's, modifications, problems, good points, suggestions (keeping them clean of course), accessories, tyres, rims, diff locks, roof racks, bull bars, long range fuel tanks, suppliers, manufacturers, maintenance, anything. I am based in Sydney but that does not mean everything has to be in Sydney as I get about a fair bit.

Any feedback will be greatly appreciated.


Graham

KEV0044
10th December 2003, 05:07 PM
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BlackAdder
11th December 2003, 07:04 AM
Morning Kev,

Thanks for the reply and yes, I have already checked out Boiling Billy Publications, for any others that may be interested, the address is:

http://www.boilingbilly.com.au/exploreaust...y4wd/index.html (http://www.boilingbilly.com.au/exploreaustraliaby4wd/index.html)

I found this when I started looking for info on the 130, but there is very little to be found out there (or maybe I am not looking well enough). I have tried Graeme Cooper Automotive but have not heard back yet. It seems that the owners are a pretty aloof lot or the total opposite, are no nonsense hard working people that don't have time to talk about their motors or hop on the internet.

The hunt will go on. Anything about them, from what "non standards" they have like the diff drain plug size (bush mechanic information) to you can use a ??? replacement part instead of genuine LR. These are only examples and it's the trivial little things that often get missed. For example, did you know the tail shaft on the NM Pajero is Carbon Fibre! Makes what you carry as spares and fencing wire a little different.

Who knows, when I get mine, I might have to dedicate some info to the site. When I get it, you can hold me to it.

geneadam
21st January 2004, 07:21 PM
Based on 10,000 k's of mostly on-road but some off-road (but not bushwhacking) experience of the Defender 130, on a vehicle I bought used with 4,700 k's on the clock, I am quite pleased. This Defender starts instantly, as she did after 10 weeks of no usage whilst I was away from W.A. in Thailand working (dual batteries with isolator must be acknowledged). I took one trip offroad out to the Peron Peninsula, another to a little gem of a place called Long Point near Walpole in the south of W.A. The vehicle seemed very capable, but I must note here that I don't have that much experience offroad. I nabbed recent-year Land Rover drivers I came across and quizzed them before I bought this vehicle. I spoke with the wife of a man who drives offroad as a gas pipeline inspector in W.A. (she drives a Discovery, so I was asking her about that car). She told me that her husband will only use Defenders for his work, he has tried all the obvious other choices and only the Defender will get him through reliably. He gets a new one every year, she said. She also said that he takes every off-road driving course he can find.

People note that in the Defender noise levels at speed are high. I have to agree I'd like the vehicle to be a little more quiet. Fuel economy is excellent given the considerable size of this 4wd.

I have just put this vehicle into LR service a bit early for the 20,000 k service, and the aircon which was not putting out much cool has been regassed, and oil leaks detected by the service crew are being fixed, which process might included taking out the gearbox. All covered by warranty.

One can cover ground onroad nicely with the Defender td5 130. The seating position for the driver and front passenger is good, giving a good view of the road. Tall drivers and passengers may have other opinions.

When reversing, as with any ute or long, high vehicle, one has to watch out that there are not little kids up close to the back end, as you would not see them.

This is my take on the td5 130, after less than a year of driving around W.A. I've had other Defenders, but that (as the poet said) was a long time ago, and in another country.

BlackAdder
22nd January 2004, 08:06 AM
Hi there geneadam,

Thanks for the very informative and candid reply. It has reinforced my opinion of the vehicle. I am about 99% sold, all I need to do now is part with some hard earned cash. Then I can start, I estimate I will spend about another 30k on the mods I would like to do so I have got to put every penny away now.

I will also have to look into the "tall driver" situation as well, I'm 6'1" in the old measure or 185cm in the new and one of the mods I am thinking of is out with the original front seats and in with a set of suspension seats, no doubt they will be higher at the seat than the originals.

Again, thanks for the info.

betty
22nd January 2004, 10:10 AM
Kev

I have a defender 130.... and love it.... the best vehicle i have ever driven, it has evrything i want in a 4wd but have to say there are a few things in a defender owner that you have to be happy with live with..... the leaking roof.....the wind mirrors that shake so you can't use them, ... the lack of cabin space in a large 4wd..... the hard and sometimes uncomfortable seats.... this list can probably go on.... but at the end of the day if you love style looks, solid and go anywhere design of the worlds longest lasting 4WD then you can live with all of these without giving them a second thought.... if the wife is looking for 3 star comfort then you might have to look elsewhere.... but buy one anyway and live with its worth it.

BlackAdder
22nd January 2004, 10:14 AM
Music too my ears Betty, thanks for the reply.

jaydafordman
22nd January 2004, 05:01 PM
Blackadder, I am in a similar boat to you in regards to height. I'm 6'3" (189cm) in height and while you may just get away with raised seats, I won't. I like a little room around me, so going different seat arrangements may prove a nuisance in the Defender.

KEV0044
22nd January 2004, 05:18 PM
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betty
22nd January 2004, 06:35 PM
At the end of the day if you want comfort, buy a disco and not a defender, part of owning a defender is the uncomfortable ride the shaking mirrors,etc etc etc it is all part of driving a true classic vehicle that was design to with stand the bush for years and it has proved its point. You cant allways have your cake and eat it. and as i read somewhere else in one of the chats "Landrovers: When horsepower refers to Clydesdales, not Stallions" this expression suits the whole vehicle and not just the horse power.

Enjoy driving the defender and take it as it is.... solid, reliable and bloody uncomfortable but still the best

lrdef110
22nd January 2004, 07:42 PM
Can't comment on 130's but theres a couple of things to watch out for on TD5's

Firstly pre about April 2000, Land Rover used plasic head dowells and as the motors wear a bit the head tends to rock/move on these dowells which can result in head gasket damage or head damage. The plastic dowells have been replaced with steel dowells since about April 2000. This will not affect you if you buy new.

Also a fairly common problem with these motors is that they can pick up current through the electrical system somewhere (more common if accessories are fitted and not earthed properly) and there have been a number of cases of the radiators corroding etc. Good practise is to earth the radiator which reduces the current flow through the coolant.

Otherwise they are a great motor. IMO oil should be changed every 10000km instead of 20,000km though.

Pedro_The_Swift
25th January 2004, 06:32 AM
excuse me for a second blackadder,,

Betty!
post some photos!

ok,

You're in an enviable position blackadder, not many of us get the chance to buy a new 130,

and yes you WILL keep us posted style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif on the vehicles progress.

and remember,
always buy what you want,
not what you can afford. :wink:

I think the kids will love it.

BlackAdder
25th January 2004, 08:29 AM
Cheers Pedro,

I don't know about enviable! The bloody decission is killing me, on one hand what seems to be a damn capable vehicle with all the qualities I am looking for, on the other hand quite a few quirks (oil leaks, shaking mirrors, etc) that are concerning along with not a very common vehicle so a fairly specialist mechanic required, on another hand, a vehicle (HiLux) that is almost what I am looking for, but not quite as capable and on the other hand a vehicle that is bloody common and can be worked on by just about anyone.

Don't worry though, at the moment the decission is about 70% Defender, 30% HiLux.

There is another decission factor in the equasion though, and that's the handbrake, if I can't turn her around on 3 star v. 3 million star while I have the Pajero, it's all going to be pointless.

P.S. I have seen a couple of photo's of Betty (Paul's) 130 and previous 110 and they are both very nice straight machines.

geneadam
25th January 2004, 01:47 PM
Hi BlackAdder,

Between Hilux and Defender, the safety issue might be a point to consider for a man with a family, or for anyone really. There is a lot of safety data here for Oz NZ experience combined.

http://www.mynrma.com.au/motoring/cars/cra...tings/4wd.shtml (http://www.mynrma.com.au/motoring/cars/crash_tests/used_safety_ratings/4wd.shtml)

Even though we are careful drivers (of course), some clown might hit us or pull out in front of us no matter what we do.

Cheers,

Gene

BlackAdder
25th January 2004, 08:07 PM
Hi there Gene,

Good site, but nothing to compare! There is no Defender be it a 90, a 110 or a 130. Yes I understand that the HiLux is probably below par, but is the 130 any better? A lot of concern has been shown re the "top heavyness" of the 130 with me talking about a tinny on the roof, does that not cause come concern.

Who knows, the most unfortunate part is I have not yet seen a "good" write-up on either. I have read a lot about the HiLux, but most of it about modifying them and there is little about the 130 except for a test back in 1998. Boiling Billy put up a good bit of info on the mods that they did and then they were putting newsletters on the site every month, but it's missing November and December and they were unable to narrow down their schedule in the Blue Mountains (was supposed to be 15th of January, but they did not get back to me before then to pinpoint their location so I could go visit them. I would have loved to do that because there is nothing like hearing it from the horses mouth.

Best part, I don't give up easily! I will keep looking.

Pedro_The_Swift
26th January 2004, 06:07 AM
I would think the enjoyment of having a tinny around would outway what little if any extra problems it causes. If the extra weight "up top" is the concern, then WHEN does it become THE PROBLEM?
On any given day you see litterally hundreds of upside-down tinnies on 4wd roofs. I would think ( just me thinking out loud here ) the major stress on the vehicle would come at high speed. And you dont see many 4wds overturned on the highway because of the tinny on the roof.
If the extra kilos is a concern in "serious" off road stuff, how serious are you? If "that" weight will make the difference between rolling over and not rolling over(offroad) you probably already have , airlockers, winches, extra fuel and water tanks, $20,000 worth of offroad-camper and the knowledge NOT to take that track, but are you that serious?
Its not an easy question, and if you say "yes" then laying it over at 2kph
would probably not unduly worry you.

just me typing out loud here Blackadder. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif
I'm sure all the "serious" offroaders will give you the benefit of their years of experience.

BlackAdder
26th January 2004, 08:47 AM
You know what Pedro, you have actually made bloody good sense. I am serious with my driving, serious enough to know what I can and what I can't do and with enough common sense to know what I can try and what I should not try. I'm not into rock crawling, I want to do the Cape and stuff like that, but in general all my off road will be on formed tracks.

Cheers.

Pedro_The_Swift
27th January 2004, 05:09 PM
I can reccommend a Stessel Edgetracker :!: 8)

tempestv8
3rd April 2004, 08:48 PM
Originally posted by lrdef110


<snip>

Also a fairly common problem with these motors is that they can pick up current through the electrical system somewhere (more common if accessories are fitted and not earthed properly) and there have been a number of cases of the radiators corroding etc. Good practise is to earth the radiator which reduces the current flow through the coolant.

<snip>



I was going thru the archives and I found this comment above.

Earthing the radiator is BAD!!!

You want the radiator to be isolated electrically from the body.

If the radiator is earthed to the body, this makes it easy for electrolysis to occur and you'll find that your water pump blades will corrode and replate themselves onto the cores of the radiator if you complete the circuit by earthing the radiator.

Which is why on the Discovery Series II, the radiator is completely isolated from the metalwork by way of rubber bungs. I haven't inspected the Disco I nor the Rangies or the Defender, but I daresay that if they are engineered properly, the radiator would be isolated too.

tempestv8

colsek
13th June 2005, 08:19 PM
Hi all,
I have had my defender 130 (2001 model) for 16 months and LOVE it. Previously I have had a 1979 RR ... did 4 months around australia in this car with wife and two kids, and covered over 400000Km in it in total. Then had a 1985 Series 2 RR HiLine ... beautiful ... did cape york in this and also about 350000Km ...
Now the 130 ... I bought this because it offered the same (or better) off road capability as the RR's, was a basic car that could be built upon and had the separated cabin from ute ... keeps the passengers neat and tidy and less cramped.
What have I done to it so far .... Dual battery system (Graeme Cooper did a brilliant fit out in the exisiting compartment) ... new tyres ... Michelin AT 255 75 16 LTX ... finding them great and quiet. Raised driver seat by 50mm ... I am 185 cm but have a shortish body so found the seating position too low to see the bonnet corners. Since lifting the seat my long legs are at a better angle, I can see really well and the seats seem very comfortable ( I had considerd replacement, but not now).

Intend to do ... replace ute with tray and make a pod to fit with spare tyre carriers on the back (lots of ideas in my head and about to put this into CAD), Roof Top tent (shipp Shape)on top of the Pod and level with the roof line, sound proof interior of cabin, roof console unit for radios etc, side steps and long range tank.

I met Craig Lewis at the 4wd show in Rosehill after making contact with him through boiling billy ... he was so full of helpful information and I saw his vehicle set up ... as I had always envied it as the exact style of setup I was after (and still do with some benefit of hindsight).

Graeme Cooper is a great guy, I have dealt with Graeme all my RR life and he is practical and willing to offer sound advice. He is busy so go and see him .... he used to have a 130 but sold it to expand his business only in the last year or so.

Problems ... currently I have a challenge with the cable leading from the injectors to the ECU. In models before mine at 30000Km there was osmosis of oil into the ECU ... mine is suffering the same problem. Otherwise trouble free so far. Bought it with 27000Km and have done just 10000Km ... about 30% off road .... beautiful this is where they shine.

I intend to build a website as my work in progress ... progresses so will keep posted. I live in Parramatta NSW.

If any one can help with the OIL osmosis problem I would love to hear fro m you. Land Rover Australia are refusing to assist in any way ... even though the vehicle has only done just over 30000Km ... they fall back on the "out of Warranty" excuse.

Cheers
Rob style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

CraigE
14th June 2005, 01:07 AM
I would agree with most if you want comfort buy a Disco. The Defenders seem good testing and for the first couple of months, but become fairly uncomfortable pretty quick. I f I had it over again I would have bought the Disco (too late now though until its paid off). On the plus side they are a great 4wd, economical for a truck and loads of load room. The 130 will be great if you have bikes etc. Think about waiting until the new model comes out. Having said that I would not buy another I will reserve my judgement until the new one comes out and then may buy a 130 twin cab chassis and have a custom tray put on it.

Rosco
14th June 2005, 06:31 AM
Originally posted by colsek
Hi all,

Problems ... currently I have a challenge with the cable leading from the injectors to the ECU. In models before mine at 30000Km there was osmosis of oil into the ECU ... mine is suffering the same problem.

If any one can help with the OIL osmosis problem I would love to hear fro m you.
Cheers
Rob style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

G'day Rob ..

Is your black box located under the driver's seat? I asked the stealer about the prob and he claimed it was only an issue with Discos due to the loaction of the box. Claimed it wasn't a prob with Fenders ... not 2003 mods anyway. :roll: :roll:

Cheers

colsek
14th June 2005, 08:54 PM
Wizard,
Thanks for the rapid response, this is impressive.
The ECU is under the drivers seat, and according to both LR and Trivett my model (2001) and Vin ( last digits are 601346) indicate that the problem should have been solved at the factory by a newer component being fitted. A newly re-dsigned component was fitted to vehicles from about 2001 onwards. Apparently Defender 130's prior to 2001 suffered this problem, and this was confirmed at last years LR expo at Penrith, when I chatted with a Defender 110 owner who recounted a story of a trip he did with two other Defender 130's. They clocked over the magical 30000 and then suffered eratic engine problems. It was tracked down to the ECU cable and oil osmosis into the ECU.
Cheers
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif