Brake Honing

[Lionelgee]

Wheel Cylinder Brake Bleeder Screws & Honing Hello All,

I posted this message up in the Series 3 section and it did not get a response so I hope someone can spare the time within the General Chat section :). I did an advanced search and there were 20 pages of brake related material but non directly mentioned honing in their subject line - so...

I just ordered a couple of sets of brake bleeder screws and rubber brake pipes and wheel cylinder seals for my 1976 Six cylinder Series 3 LWB ute.

I just had a bit of a mental note pop up in my head as to whether these brake bleeder screws and rubber hose pipe fittings threads would be Metric or Imperial? :eek:

I informed the supplier in writing that my vehicle was made in 6/76 so cross fingers. Hopefully they send me the correct size threads and the previous owners have not mixed and matched various sizes. :eek:

What size flare spanners will I need?

What diameter are the wheel cylinders for each of these vehicles:

LWB Series 3 Ute Diesel 2.25 litre Four cylinder Year of Manufacture 5/76
LWB Series 3 ute originally 2.26 litre Six cylinder petrol 6/76

From one of the auto parts store's catalogue it looks like there is a choice between a two legged and a three legged honing tool. I am sure that last time I used one it had three legs. Which version 2 or 3 legs gives the better finish?

Would a sized honing tool that does Bore range 7/8'' to 1.1/2'' (22-38mm) fit both the 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder sized wheel cylinder bores?

Gee I just remembered what year it was when I last overhauled brake wheel cylinders - 1987 on my EH Holden and not long married!!!

Have a good weekend Folks

Kind Regards
Lionel

[101RRS]

These days it is just so much easier and cheaper to buy new wheel cylinders - they are now so cheap.

[Mick_Marsh]

Wherever possible, I just get them sleeved in stainless.

With other Leyland vehicles I have, I have found the various nuts, bolts and other brake fittings could be metric or imperial. The brake line connections on the front left of my 100" are a different spanner size to the front right.
Some other after market fittings I have found to have what appears to be imperial threads and metric heads.

Oh, another thing I do is use rubber grease on the dust caps. I find this helps prevent water getting into the cylinders.

[Lionelgee]

Wherever possible, I just get them sleeved in stainless.

With other Leyland vehicles I have, I have found the various nuts, bolts and other brake fittings could be metric or imperial. The brake line connections on the front left of my 100" are a different spanner size to the front right.
Some other after market fittings I have found to have what appears to be imperial threads and metric heads.

Oh, another thing I do is use rubber grease on the dust caps. I find this helps prevent water getting into the cylinders.


Hello Mick,

Getting a set done with a stainless steel sleeve is the long term goal. Getting a kit through both Baldrick and Rebus's brakes going again are my short term goal so one of them can get registered.

I watched a Youtube video of a bloke in the USA doing a wheel cylinder rebuild for a F250 and he had a to use a mixture of Metric and Imperial spanners to get the wheel cylinders off, reinstalled and bled. I would of thought the US on an older truck would have been all Imperial.

So it makes Land Rovers to have even so much more chance of a mix match of fittings - plus the passing of 37 years and who knows how many previous owners adding their individual marks.

Okay if it was a metric brake pipe nut what size could it be?
If it was an imperial sized brake pipe nut what size could it be?

Kind Regards
Lionel

[Timj]

I think like most of us here I would just grab the required spanner when doing the job, then go back into the shed and get the one that actually fits a couple more times till the right one comes out. I generally don't ever remember what size a nut was the next time I have to attack it.

Metric threads on the brakes didn't really happen till the early 80s when the wider drums came out on the SWB and I think on LWB as well. The wheel cylinders and pipe ends are metric with those I think but you should not have those on yours.

Cheers,

TimJ.

[Lionelgee]

I think like most of us here I would just grab the required spanner when doing the job, then go back into the shed and get the one that actually fits a couple more times till the right one comes out. I generally don't ever remember what size a nut was the next time I have to attack it.

Metric threads on the brakes didn't really happen till the early 80s when the wider drums came out on the SWB and I think on LWB as well. The wheel cylinders and pipe ends are metric with those I think but you should not have those on yours.

Cheers,

TimJ.

G'day TimJ,

I agree with you on the "should not have" however, when I asked the supplier what sized flare spanner I should get he said "x millimetres" for the bled screw. I then reiterated that my Land Rovers were both built in 1976 so why would they be Metric? The supplier just said they should fit.

It will sure be interesting when the time comes to overhaul the wheel cylinders!

Kind Regards
Lionel

[Timj]

Hi Lionel,

But the head or spanner size has nothing directly to do with the thread as such. Metric thread is what came in in the early 80s and is what would cause you problems if you try to mate the wrong cylinder with the pipe ends or bleed valves.

As far as the size of the nut for a spanner then many of the metric sizes are interchangeable with AF or even Witworth depending on how worn the nut is and how willing you are to accept a slight bit of play when you undo your nuts. For example 9/16 AF and 14mm Metric are almost the same, the difference is very small but occasionally a nut just doesn't quite work with one or the other. Same for 7/16 and 11mm and 3/8 and 10mm. Sometimes a 1/4 Witworth is just right but something else will fit if you need it to.

Not being difficult here, it's just that the S3 was on a changeover between different threads during it's life (which was about 13 years after all) and a changeover between owners of the company building it so you just have to work with what is there.

Cheers,

TimJ.

[gromit]

A lot of the 'pattern' bleed screws have Imperial threads but Metric hex for the spanner.

If the slave cylinders are pitted then probably best to sleeve or replace. If the bore isn't too bad I've cleaned it up with a piece of emery in a stick held in a drill. Move it rapidly up & down the bore as it rotates.
If you have to hone pits out you are increasing the bore size slightly so the piston is a sloppier fit and the seals have to bridge a bigger gap.

Pattern sets are resonably cheap.


Colin

[richard4u2]

with the wheel cylinders if they are steel you can hone them but if they are alloy they only have a few thou of steel and when you hit them with the hone the steel will go and just leave the alloy and they wont last if you do hone you may need over size cups or spreaders in the cups

[Mick_Marsh]

Lionel,
Do yourself a favour and whip down to Supercheap and get yourself a set of imperial and a set of metric brake pipe spanners. They don't cost much and are very handy.
In the end, you'll be glad you did.

[Lionelgee]

Lionel,
Do yourself a favour and whip down to Supercheap and get yourself a set of imperial and a set of metric brake pipe spanners. They don't cost much and are very handy.
In the end, you'll be glad you did.


G'day Mick,

Yes Mick, that is why I posted the message up in the beginning. I wanted to narrow down the size of the spanners and also what type of they were Imperial or Metric. Are "brake spanners" and "Flare spanners" the same kind of thing with a different name?

Flare NUT Spanner SET Metric Free Pick UP | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Flare-Nut-Spanner-Set-Metric-FREE-PICK-UP-/190892444710?pt=AU_Hand_Tools&hash=item2c72138c26) for an example of a photo of them - no relationship with the seller.

However, from the wide variety of bits and pieces Land Rovers seem to attract I will follow your suggestion and get both varieties as this seems to be more of a safer bet. :)

I also wanted to know if this type of brake honer would fit the Land Rover four cylinder diesel and the Land Rover six cylinder petrol sized brake wheel cylinders http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Brake-Cylinder-Hone-Honer-3-Arm-Stones-Bore-Range-22-38mm-for-Cars-and-Trucks-/290996629454?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43c0c02fce

Kind Regards
Lionel

[101RRS]

Lionel,
Do yourself a favour and whip down to Supercheap and get yourself a set of imperial and a set of metric brake pipe spanners. They don't cost much and are very handy.
In the end, you'll be glad you did.

And you can get a Wheel Cylinder honer there as well.

[Lionelgee]

And you can get a Wheel Cylinder honer there as well.

Hello Garry,

What size wheel honer??????????????? :eek:

I have asked the same question more than once! :wallbash:

Kind Regards
Lionel

[101RRS]

What size wheel honer??????????????? :eek:



No Idea - something you will have to work out yourself - as they are spring loaded they will fit various size bores.

[Mick_Marsh]

Hello Garry,

What size wheel honer??????????????? :eek:

I have asked the same question more than once! :wallbash:

Kind Regards
Lionel
Yep. They're the spanners.
For honing wheel cylinders, I've only ever used emery paper. Emergency situation.
For non emergencies, I get the cylinders sleeved in stainless.

From memory (which is not too good nowdays), I have only ever seen three cylinder honers in Supercheap. Engine cylinder honer, two stone brake cylinder honer and three stone brake cylinder honer. Don't buy the engine cylinder honer if you want to do brake cylinders. I'm not sure why but that is what the salesman told me.
If I was buying one, I'd get the three stone brake cylinder honer. I wouldn't buy one though, you see, I've only ever used emery paper.

[d2dave]

Don't buy the engine cylinder honer if you want to do brake cylinders. I'm not sure why


Mick are you serious here, or being funny?

[Mick_Marsh]

Mick are you serious here, or being funny?
I'm hurt you had to ask!