Anger over 4WD Access.

[Ausfree]

Rage builds on 4WD*access | Newcastle Herald (http://www.theherald.com.au/story/1871432/rage-builds-on-4wd-access/?cs=305)

[Redback]

Access to the beach hasn't been taken away, they have just reduced the camping area, you can still drive onto the beach and drive up and down it and fish all the way along it, as far as I can tell.

I agree with the plan, after seeing the place after a weekend, I was disgusted with the amount of rubbish left behind, these people should be ashamed of themselves:mad:

Baz.

[mools]

I think if the pro access groups loose this one then the number of places available to 4WD's will diminish quite quickly.

OK so idiots leave rubbish. They should be fined and perhaps loose the right to access on an individual basis. If you close the place then those idiots will only go elsewhere (en mass) and leave their rubbish there. Then guess what? Another place where closure becomes an option.

Personally I always avoided the place (Stockton), the reason being that there always seemed to be a lot of idiots either there or talking about it. Whilst I might not want to go myself (its a long way away now too) I would want to be allied with those who want to preserve the right to do so - not those who seek to take that right away.

This said, with rights come responsibilities and I think that the 4Wd community needs to better understand this. Other outdoor pursuits I undertake in seem to be far better at self policing than 4WDers are - try damaging a rock-face or littering on a mountain side and you will likely soon be called to task. Let's face it as 4WD's we're more likely to observe, shake a head, drive on past and moan about it later. It should come as no surprise that if we continue to shirk our responsibilities, both as individuals and as a group, then it won't be too long (nor much of a surprise) before we have fewer places to go and even fewer that you would want to go to.

Just my thoughts.

[303gunner]

Well that wasn't a balanced or accurate article, was it? There is NO sandmining taking place anywhere on public land or portions of the accesible beach, it is all on freehold land. The dune areas are also freehold land down to the high water mark, it's just that some of the biggest areas have been leased by the property owners to the NPWS to be managed, which also allows public access. The NPWS DO NOT manage the area on behalf of the NSW Government, they manage it for the property owners. Why do the "4wd Community" think they have an unalienable right to access somebody's freehold land? If the Owner of the land has included terms in the lease to insist that NPWS take measures to conserve that land from abuse, what's wrong with that? It's certainly what many residential Landlords would also do in their lease conditions.

[Ausfree]

This article by John Rooth was in the "Newcastle Herald" this morning.

OPINION Great outdoors gated by bleak bureaucrats | Newcastle Herald (http://www.theherald.com.au/story/1873388/opinion-great-outdoors-gated-by-bleak-bureaucrats/?cs=308)

[Redback]

I think if the pro access groups loose this one then the number of places available to 4WD's will diminish quite quickly.

OK so idiots leave rubbish. They should be fined and perhaps loose the right to access on an individual basis. If you close the place then those idiots will only go elsewhere (en mass) and leave their rubbish there. Then guess what? Another place where closure becomes an option.

Personally I always avoided the place (Stockton), the reason being that there always seemed to be a lot of idiots either there or talking about it. Whilst I might not want to go myself (its a long way away now too) I would want to be allied with those who want to preserve the right to do so - not those who seek to take that right away.

This said, with rights come responsibilities and I think that the 4Wd community needs to better understand this. Other outdoor pursuits I undertake in seem to be far better at self policing than 4WDers are - try damaging a rock-face or littering on a mountain side and you will likely soon be called to task. Let's face it as 4WD's we're more likely to observe, shake a head, drive on past and moan about it later. It should come as no surprise that if we continue to shirk our responsibilities, both as individuals and as a group, then it won't be too long (nor much of a surprise) before we have fewer places to go and even fewer that you would want to go to.

Just my thoughts.

While I agree with most of what you say, the fact is, access to Stockton has not been taken away, only restrictions on the amount of camping, the place was never going to survive with the amount of people camping there, there were 2000 campsites at Xmas 2010?(NPWS estimate, there could have been more) the place was a mess apparently and took weeks to clean up, just imagine an average of 3 people per camp going to the toilet(remember there are no facilities at Stockton:eek:)

Restricting the camping allows NPWS record who is there and if they do the wrong thing, they can take action.

Now as far as I'm aware, you can't drive in the dunes on any beach along the east coast, Fraser Is included, I could be wrong

[Yorkie]

This article by John Rooth was in the "Newcastle Herald" this morning.

OPINION Great outdoors gated by bleak bureaucrats | Newcastle Herald (http://www.theherald.com.au/story/1873388/opinion-great-outdoors-gated-by-bleak-bureaucrats/?cs=308)

good piece, not sure if stockton should be the main focus though.
will be interesting to see what comments its gets, seems one already into it.

[101RRS]

This article by John Rooth was in the "Newcastle Herald" this morning.


I just wish the 4wd movement had someone with credibility in the eyes of the authorities as the front man and did not have a conflict of interest in being the front man of a 4wd mag.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Perhaps Senators elect David Leyonhjem (NSW) of the Lib Dems or Ricky Muir (Vic) of the MEP?

We already have the NSW Shooters and Fishers MLCs on board.

[Eevo]

i get annoyed cause i do nothing wrong, but i wont go clean up other people's rubbish cause thats giving them the wrong idea that someone will clean up after them.

[Saitch]

I just wish the 4wd movement had someone with credibility in the eyes of the authorities as the front man and did not have a conflict of interest in being the front man of a 4wd mag.
Maybe some from this forum who lives in the area concerned could put their hand up hmmmmm?

[wardy1]

i get annoyed cause i do nothing wrong, but i wont go clean up other people's rubbish cause thats giving them the wrong idea that someone will clean up after them.

Well.... if SOMEONE doesn't clean up, you lose it! Sorry but the premise you use is flawed.

I, and I know several others will generally come out of the bush with a couple of bags of other peoples rubbish after a few days bush. Happy to do it? NO. I do it because I want to remove the excuse to close down an area due to all the reasons stated regarding Stockton (which I've never been to btw).

WE as 4wders who love our hobby and lifestyle should always be willing to to 'cover' for a few idiots who threaten what we love to protect our position as of right.

Soap Box now under the stairs ;)

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I just wish the 4wd movement had someone with credibility in the eyes of the authorities as the front man and did not have a conflict of interest in being the front man of a 4wd mag.
Maybe some from this forum who lives in the area concerned could put their hand up hmmmmm?The problem with that premise is that we're all Landy enthusiasts and by definition we must have a nut loose! :D

[mikehzz]

While I agree with most of what you say, the fact is, access to Stockton has not been taken away, only restrictions on the amount of camping, the place was never going to survive with the amount of people camping there, there were 2000 campsites at Xmas 2010?(NPWS estimate, there could have been more) the place was a mess apparently and took weeks to clean up, just imagine an average of 3 people per camp going to the toilet(remember there are no facilities at Stockton:eek:)

Restricting the camping allows NPWS record who is there and if they do the wrong thing, they can take action.

Now as far as I'm aware, you can't drive in the dunes on any beach along the east coast, Fraser Is included, I could be wrong

A big chunk of access to Stockton has been taken away. All the big dunes between Lavis Lane and Anna Bay are off limits. That's about 20kms of the biggest dunes you can find in all of Australia. These were by far the most enjoyable to drive and had fantastic views from the top. The dunes on the south side of Lavis are very ordinary.

[Eevo]

Well.... if SOMEONE doesn't clean up, you lose it! Sorry but the premise you use is flawed.



all you are doing is encouraging bad behavior.



the little kid in the supermarket is having a tantrum cause he wants lollies and you make him quite by giving him lollies.

[Didge]

I THINK and believe an underlying cause of anti 4wd attitude is caused by the magazines such as 4WDaction and the 4wd manufacturers themselves. The magazine adds and promos and the manufacturers ads always show cars going rip, tear, bust through the bush, along the beach and behaving like a 17 year old boy in a brothel - nuts!!!
And that seems to be the perception the general, uninformed public have of the rest of us who don't go about creating new tracks, cutting down bushes, spinning wheels, etc.
They think we all drive fuel guzzling, intimidating, environment destroying monsters.

[101RRS]

I THINK and believe an underlying cause of anti 4wd attitude is caused by the magazines such as 4WDaction and the 4wd manufacturers themselves. The magazine adds and promos and the manufacturers ads always show cars going rip, tear, bust through the bush, along the beach and behaving like a 17 year old boy in a brothel - nuts!!!
And that seems to be the perception the general, uninformed public have of the rest of us who don't go about creating new tracks, cutting down bushes, spinning wheels, etc.
They think we all drive fuel guzzling, intimidating, environment destroying monsters.

Hence why I do not believe that this Roothy guy is an appropriate spokesman for the cause. Whose ugly mug do we see on the 4wd Action promos, mags and dvds doing the things that upset others so much - Roothy.

[Eevo]

I THINK and believe an underlying cause of anti 4wd attitude is caused by the magazines such as 4WDaction and the 4wd manufacturers themselves. The magazine adds and promos and the manufacturers ads always show cars going rip, tear, bust through the bush, along the beach and behaving like a 17 year old boy in a brothel - nuts!!!
And that seems to be the perception the general, uninformed public have of the rest of us who don't go about creating new tracks, cutting down bushes, spinning wheels, etc.
They think we all drive fuel guzzling, intimidating, environment destroying monsters.

i agree whats how the public see's us. but i dont agree its from 4WD action.
ive only watch 4-5 eps from torrents, and a few eps of pat callinan and neither seems to be tearing it up. 4wd action is aggressive and maybe targets the bogan market but doesnt tear it up imho..

[Didge]

Fair enough but I should show you some of the DVD's I have where the environment is inconsequential to the fun to be had :)

[edddo]

i get annoyed cause i do nothing wrong, but i wont go clean up other people's rubbish cause thats giving them the wrong idea that someone will clean up after them.

you cant give these morons 'the wrong idea', they are naturally oblivious to the concerns of others or the public good. They will keep being non thinking idiots and keep on ****ting in their own nest at the expense of the rest of us. Better off taking some of their rubbish out and calling them to account when you have the misfortune of meeting such folk.

[Didge]

“Our youth now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders and love chatter in place of exercise; they no longer rise when elders enter the room; they contradict their parents, chatter before company; gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers.” quote by Socrates 2000 odd years ago - nothing will change with each generation. People who behave like the nongs we're talking about will breed more morons

[mikehzz]

Even people who think they are doing the right thing can be a bit stupid. Take 4wd TV. Their motto is Tread Lightly, Keep it Safe, Play Hard. The clips playing behind said motto are of heavily modified 4wd's on 35's ripping the crap out of tracks, leaping all 4 wheels off the ground or flipping onto their side. Tread lightly compared to what? :)

[DiscoMick]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eevo https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/08/768.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/184830-anger-over-4wd-access-post2017425.html#post2017425)
i get annoyed cause i do nothing wrong, but i wont go clean up other people's rubbish cause thats giving them the wrong idea that someone will clean up after them.

Well.... if SOMEONE doesn't clean up, you lose it! Sorry but the premise you use is flawed.

I, and I know several others will generally come out of the bush with a couple of bags of other peoples rubbish after a few days bush. Happy to do it? NO. I do it because I want to remove the excuse to close down an area due to all the reasons stated regarding Stockton (which I've never been to btw).

WE as 4wders who love our hobby and lifestyle should always be willing to to 'cover' for a few idiots who threaten what we love to protect our position as of right.

Soap Box now under the stairs ;)You should see the amount of rubbish 1000 kids at a school cangenerate in a day, despite frequent campaigns to get them to put it in the bin.
We approach this in two ways:
1. We have regular cleanups where all the students are sent out in groups to clean up areas, in the hope they will get the message.
2. Staff doing duty pick up obvious rubbish that area.
The theory is that if there is lots of rubbish, people will think its OK to drop more rubbish, but if the rubbish is regularly removed, they are more likely to realise its NOT OK and put it in the bin. I've lived in countries where rubbish was just strewn everywhere and I didn't like it one bit. Cleaning up is just one little thing we can do to make a better planet for all.
So, I'd cleanup to a reasonable degree in an area (while quietly grumbling about the lazy sods who dropped it:mad:).

I once made the mistake of saying to a student, "You wouldn't drop rubbish on the floor in your bedroom like that, would you?" His reply: "Yeah, all the time." God, save us all!

[DiscoMick]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eevo https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/08/768.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/184830-anger-over-4wd-access-post2017425.html#post2017425)
i get annoyed cause i do nothing wrong, but i wont go clean up other people's rubbish cause thats giving them the wrong idea that someone will clean up after them.

Well.... if SOMEONE doesn't clean up, you lose it! Sorry but the premise you use is flawed.

I, and I know several others will generally come out of the bush with a couple of bags of other peoples rubbish after a few days bush. Happy to do it? NO. I do it because I want to remove the excuse to close down an area due to all the reasons stated regarding Stockton (which I've never been to btw).

WE as 4wders who love our hobby and lifestyle should always be willing to to 'cover' for a few idiots who threaten what we love to protect our position as of right.

Soap Box now under the stairs ;)

You should see the amount of rubbish 1000 kids at a school can generate in a day, despite frequent campaigns to get them to put it in the bin.
We approach this in two ways:
1. We have regular cleanups where all the students are sent out in groups to clean up areas, in the hope they will get the message.
2. Staff doing duty pick up obvious rubbish in that area.
The theory is that if there is lots of rubbish, people will think its OK to drop more rubbish, but if the rubbish is regularly removed, they are more likely to realise its NOT OK and put it in the bin.
So, I'd cleanup to a reasonable degree in an area (while quietly grumbling about the lazy sods who dropped it:mad:).

[newhue]

Folks, we better pick up rubbish, and do as much as possible to keep the place in good order. And stand up and say something to the muppits doing the wrong thing.

Cause I just spent the weekend at Cotton Trees holiday park at Maroochydore. And if that is the alternative and ultimate goal of governments with crowd control then we are all goners.
I Listened to Stevo break up with this girlfriend then go drunk driving. Enjoyed the neighbours cigarette smoke from his non stop habit. Listened to three types of music at once. Loved the way people just wonder through your camp randomly on their way to the toilet. Took in the wafting smells of toilet deodorising urinal tablets. Enjoyed the endless litter of chocolate wrappers dropped by the U14 rugby club celebrating the end of year break up. Camping within 1.5meters to my neighbour on three sides, on the beautiful crushed granite. Meanwhile watching the Toyota drivers wash their cars. All set in a beautiful setting, but unfortunately booked out to screw every last cent from the headland.

300 camp sites, at $60per night (min 2 night on the weekend) Just a lazy 36K to the local government every weekend thank you. No wonder there is no $4.85 national park beach camping with in coo wee.