LED Defender - Rear Lights, indicators & flasher unit

[Dervish]

If you own a Defender, you know that the standard lights are sub par. Dull, leaky and if your defender has any age, they will be brittle too. Some time ago I set about replacing all of the conventional lights in mine with LEDs, doing the best job I could – i.e. No LED “bulbs”, only complete LED luminaires, and all of them ADR compliant for their function.

I took a lot of photos during the installation of these luminaires, thinking that one day someone might find them useful. I hope someone does!

First up, and the easiest, is the side indicator. On the 300tdi this little fitting uses a standard T10 wedge bulb under an opaque brownish orange cover. To remove the fitting, reach into the wing and grab the rear of it. Push towards the left of the fitting (when looking from the front) while also depressing the tab on the right hand side. It’ll push out fairly easily.

http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad246/OreganoM1/IMG_0617_zpsde02fc67.jpg

Once out, the bulb carrier is removed by pushing toward the cover and twisting. The bulb can then be seen after scraping away the cobwebs, dust and spider carcasses at the end of the carrier.

http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad246/OreganoM1/IMG_0619_zpsda77dcfc.jpg

Either cut the carrier off at the cables or extract the spade connectors from the fitting. I cut the connectors off after extracting them as it was always my intention to solder the new fitting on, but you could easily attach connectors if you wanted the new LED luminaire to be easily removable.

Now you will need your replacement indicator. I used an LED Autolamps P/N 35AM, which is ADR/ECE compliant for the job. This unit is also water/dustproof, virtually indestructible and bright without being too bright. Current draw is 0.1A, almost nothing.

http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad246/OreganoM1/IMG_0620_zpscdc507aa.jpg

The fitting is secured with two fasteners spaced so that they require the edges of the existing opening widened. Mark the opening with a sharpie and file the excess out.

http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad246/OreganoM1/IMG_0622_zps933a4594.jpg

I can’t remember what fasteners came with the light, but I used two stainless bolts/nuts with spring washers.

http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad246/OreganoM1/IMG_0623_zpsd6d63d6b.jpg

Once that’s done, solder the connections for the new luminaire up remembering to first slip some heatshrink over the cables.

http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad246/OreganoM1/IMG_06282_zps571149b1.jpg

Job done; the luminaire clips into the fitting. I took this photo today, a year and four months after the installation and it still looks brand new.

http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad246/OreganoM1/IMG_5928_zps51b6d076.jpg

This shouldn’t cause your flasher relay to go double speed. If it does – don’t worry, I’ll show you how to fix that without buying an electronic flasher or dummy load in another post.

[Dervish]

When upgrading to LED indicators on your Defender (or anything else really), it is common for the reduced load current on the flasher unit to trip a "bulb out" protection function. This function causes the indicators to flash at double time so that you know that you've blown a bulb. If you are replacing to all LEDs, this function is redundant.

Most people buy an electronic flasher at this point, or load the circuit up with dummy loads. In some instances, a dummy load makes sense; perhaps you aren't switching to LEDs for every indicator, in which case retaining the bulb out function is sensible. This does however mean that the indicator circuit is chewing the same amount of power as it was before.

It is possible to simply disable the bulb out function on a stock flasher though. Why pay for an electronic flasher when you can just fix the one you got? :D

To do so, you must first remove the flasher. On a 300tdi Defender (probably all of them), the flasher is located behind the gearstick with the fuses.

The flasher should be closest to the passenger side, on the back of the gold fuse box panel. Just reach over the panel and pull it up.

http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad246/OreganoM1/IMG_5931_zpsa9ee1640.jpg

Once extracted, lever the cover off the flasher with a little flat blade screwdriver or army knife. On the back of the flasher is the circuit board. What you are looking for is a little IC called a U6043B; this is a fairly standard IC for flasher units across all makes. You can see a data sheet for this IC here (http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/36/doc4726-29542.pdf). For those who aren't electronics savvy, you are looking for a little black rectangle with 8 metal legs - it's the only one on the board. It should say at the very least "6043" on it, but will probably have many other characters.

http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad246/OreganoM1/IMG_5933_zps974d2843.jpg

If you peeked at that data sheet (don't feel that you have to), you'll see that pin 7 is the bulb out function. Find it, and break it. If your flasher looks exactly like mine, it will be the pin second from the bottom on the left. If you aren't confident at this point, put the cover back on and order an electronic flasher!

http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad246/OreganoM1/IMG_5935_zpsdc0df85e.jpg

I used the scissors from the aforementioned army knife to cut it. You want the break to be complete, so that no current can flow through that pin. Be very careful while making the cut, you don't want to damage anything else.

Reassemble the unit by pushing the cover back on and put it back it's place to test.

[OLD]

Nicely done Dervish. This is something that I've recently decided to investigate - what did the units cost and where'd you get them from?

Regards

Martin

[Dervish]

http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad246/OreganoM1/IMG_0705_zps7b8f638b.jpg

Sick of the fishbowls? They're dim, tiny and if yours are like mine, full of water. Here's how I converted the rear lights of my Defender to LED.

First off, remove all of the existing lights. It's two screws a piece.

http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad246/OreganoM1/IMG_0702_zps7b358a02.jpg

Once they're all out, push all of the wiring for each of the brake lights down through the grommet inside the back of the wagon and out of the hole that the indicator on each side once filled.

For this job, I used LED Autolamps P/Ns 80BARWM (LHS) and 80BARM (RHS). There are many tail light sets that could be used instead of these, but these suited my needs and were available locally and cheap! Mounting with these units was reasonably straightforward, using the existing hole for the old indicator, then lining the rest up straight and drilling.

http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad246/OreganoM1/IMG_0711_zps8354320b.jpg

(Ignore the overspray from a crossmember touch up) :p

I wired the lights in through waterproof Narva connectors so the whole lot could be pulled out easily if required. I won't go into the wiring as it's really just matching old with new.

http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad246/OreganoM1/IMG_0714_zpsf630ab53.jpg

Here's the result, because of the wheel carrier it was pointless having a reverse light on the RHS, meaning it ended up looking a lot like a NAS spec D110. The result is a much safer, much hardier set of lights. Like the side indicators (see thread (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/90-110-130-defender-county/185094-led-defender-side-indicators.html)), these are waterproof and virtually indestructible.

http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad246/OreganoM1/IMG_5485_zps1e78e47a.jpg

Note: Converting the rear indicators to LED will upset a standard flasher unit. Read my thread on fixing this problem here (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/90-110-130-defender-county/185096-led-defender-flasher-unit.html).

[Drover]

Or buy an SVX :banana::banana::banana::banana:

[Dervish]

Nicely done Dervish. This is something that I've recently decided to investigate - what did the units cost and where'd you get them from?

Regards

Martin

I can't remember what I paid but I'm sure it was between $20 and $30 for the pair, which is a steal for the quality of them. I bought them at a local Autobarn.

[Dervish]

Or buy an SVX :banana::banana::banana::banana:

I'm way too cheap for that!

[Greyfox]

Nice job :D

[RVR110]

Great job Dervish and a special thanks for your notes on fixing the double blink rate without using ballast.

I thought it was worth mentioning for anyone who wants to have LEDs but retain more of a factory look/form factor that there is now a direct LED replacement for the indicators, parking lights and brake lights. Just google S6061LED, S6060LED or S6062LED there's more information here (http://www.firstfour.co.uk/products/accessory-store/exterior/lighting---light-bars/defender-led-lights).

[VladTepes]

These are LR style replacement LED lamps from WIPAC

Side-Rear-Fog (http://www.wipac-aftermarket.com/acatalog/Side_Rear_Fog.html)

All I need is to be able to find matching round LED reverse lamps...

[Xtreme]

These are LR style replacement LED lamps from WIPAC

Side-Rear-Fog (http://www.wipac-aftermarket.com/acatalog/Side_Rear_Fog.html)

All I need is to be able to find matching round LED reverse lamps...

For replacement round LED reverse lamp try here https://www.firstfour.co.uk/item/2170310/led-nas-style-reverse-light-for-defender

[VladTepes]

Thanks - as far as I can tell those sit on plinths and would protrude further than the other ones I posted....

I'm surprised there are no 'matching' reverse lights from wipac (they do sell the NAS style also).

[RVR110]

Hi Vlad,

S6061LED, S6060LED or S6062LED are the same size as the factory parts that they replace (73mm). Unlike the NAS spec lights they do not require a plinth.

Assuming that you currently have the round versions and not the rectangular ones, the NAS spec reversing light and rear (red) fog light, are the same size (95mm) as the factory items that they replace. They fit straight into the factory plinth without modification.

Wipac make all of the above items. Wipac also make the OEM lights on the current defenders.

FWIW, Bizarrely I had to reverse the wiring on the 73mm lights because they didn't work when I plugged them in.

Hope that helps.

[VladTepes]

reversing the wires - yeah LED are polar - will only work one way.

My current reverse light is rectangular but I want a round one (two actually).

[RVR110]

Sorry for ending up a bit OT on this but in for a penny, in for a pound...

reversing the wires - yeah LED are polar - will only work one way.Although some lights have additional circuitry so that they work either way. Not these ones though :o

My current reverse light is rectangular but I want a round one (two actually).95mm reversing light is part number S6080LED and the plinth is AMR3850.
Two reversing lights - like this? (all 95mm/NAS on the rear)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/03/696.jpg

While I'm at it, here's the front with the 73mm LEDs:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/11/1427.jpg

[VladTepes]

Are the rear WIPAC ones designed to use a plinth or not (the brake/tail and indicator ones I mean) ?

[RVR110]

Are the rear WIPAC ones designed to use a plinth or not (the brake/tail and indicator ones I mean) ?
All of the 95mm/NAS lights require a plinth.
None of the 73mm lights require a plinth.

[robdav]

Thanks. Will be ordering mine tomorrow.
If you put LED's on the front as well as the back do you still need to do the mod on the flasher relay?

[VladTepes]

Yes, the front and/or the back will require the mod or a new LED can.

Only the side lights dont require it as they don't place enough load on the system to trigger the 'bulb failed' fast flash.

Or so I reckon.

[Dervish]

Yes, the front and/or the back will require the mod or a new LED can.

Only the side lights dont require it as they don't place enough load on the system to trigger the 'bulb failed' fast flash.

Or so I reckon.

Yep, that's right. Sensitivity varies, but changing a 5W bulb to a ~1.2W LED is usually safe - and certainly safe if you have an extra indicator on the bullbar.

I like those WIPAC ones, they weren't around when I did mine. I have to admit, I just threw LED bulbs in the front indicators on the body… They don't count if you have indicators in the bullbar!

[Chops]

There's a lot of good information here boys,, thanks.

Did anyone do the headlights? I'm still perplexed by which way to go with this. I'm certainly not wrapped in the originals :(

[VladTepes]

IMHO the best option (function wise) with the headlights is a traxide loom upgrade and a phillips bulb.

[Leroy_Riding]

why must these LED's be so expensive, when you look at shipping and currency conversion you are over $200 to get a set, has anyone found a cheaper alternative for 'factory look' full LED replacements?

Leroy

[flagg]

Great job Dervish and a special thanks for your notes on fixing the double blink rate without using ballast.

I thought it was worth mentioning for anyone who wants to have LEDs but retain more of a factory look/form factor that there is now a direct LED replacement for the indicators, parking lights and brake lights. Just google S6061LED, S6060LED or S6062LED there's more information here (http://www.firstfour.co.uk/products/accessory-store/exterior/lighting---light-bars/defender-led-lights).

Has anyone bought these? What is the quality like?

[RVR110]

Has anyone bought these? What is the quality like?I have them on the front. They are a Wipac product, the same brand as the OEM kit. Quality is good apart from having to reverse the wiring. If I had my time over I wouldn't bother with the 95mm NAS - I'd just go with the 73mm lights. Much less hassle to install.

[Reads90]

Has anyone bought these? What is the quality like?

Just bought some for my 110.

I have clear brake and indicators on my 110 and they don't shine up too good in the sun so changed to LED. My brother has these ones in the uk and he says they are great.

At the shows in the UK they have them working in a fish tank so show how waterproof they are.

[Reads90]

Put my LED brake lights and indicators on the back of my 110 yesterday


Very please with them. They are the direct replacement ones so look the same as the land rover ones but LED

I changed them because I have clear lights with coloured bulbs
And they weren't that bright in the sunshine.

Before

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/806.jpg (http://s107.photobucket.com/user/reads90/media/CDC34BFC-9920-46A4-9A9F-9BA2FAE147CC_zpsbiiq3cta.jpg.html)

Half done , LED's a lot brighter

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/807.jpg (http://s107.photobucket.com/user/reads90/media/598D8D7D-0491-4759-85D8-255C87175C1A_zpsbaseeguj.jpg.html)

All done

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/12/808.jpg (http://s107.photobucket.com/user/reads90/media/A0B69F52-2B59-4D0C-92AD-FBB705E51F89_zpsei3je9ds.jpg.html)

Got mine from Bolt On Bits of eBay. They advertise in the Landy mags. Quick delivery and came with new relay for the indicators.
Have only replaced the rear , at the moment.
Will be getting a set for the 90 too.

[flagg]

Nice on reads. I got the same ones I think from first four. Didn't take long to install, but had to convert them from the clips to 5mm bullets. Also very happy with them - no more dodgy bulbs and housings!

[isuzutoo-eh]

How's the light throw from an angle? I see a lot of late model cars with extremely directional indicators in clear lenses, but what I don't see is that they are indicating till I am almost directly in front of or behind the car. No good as a pedestrian or turning at an intersection. I don't want to be that guy with the thoughtless mods, nobody likes him.

Declan, did your 110 have the Series style indicators with the separate lens? Did the hole in the body fit the plug/clip section in without modification?

[Reads90]

How's the light throw from an angle? I see a lot of late model cars with extremely directional indicators in clear lenses, but what I don't see is that they are indicating till I am almost directly in front of or behind the car. No good as a pedestrian or turning at an intersection. I don't want to be that guy with the thoughtless mods, nobody likes him.

Declan, did your 110 have the Series style indicators with the separate lens? Did the hole in the body fit the plug/clip section in without modification?

Yeah can see them fine from the side.

They are the same hole figment as the series and early defenders. Mine is a 300 TDI so I had the later lights so no need to change the connectors that they came with.

That is one reason I went for the original land Rover style LED lights instead of the NSA style lights that are often seen about as you need to make the hole big and a bit of messing around with the NSA ones

Here it is with the lights off.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/01/1056.jpg (http://s107.photobucket.com/user/reads90/media/86457601-3654-4F3B-8F3C-8A54AA40F4B3_zps6qoohgc6.jpg.html)


Ali

[brian44graham]

Great fix just done it saved £29 thanks

[Dave_S]

My indicators have been playing up and now the stop/tail lights have started causing trouble. Relatively new replacement units have started to fail already and I've had to bodge one up just to hold a bulb. So I've decided to bite the bullet and ordered a kit from Bolt On Bits last night. I got the "traditional look" kit with 4 amber indicators. The kit comes with a new flasher relay to suit.

From what I can tell the wiring should be set up to fit directly to the 110 County, but I'm happy to play with connectors if necessary. The bulb holders require new holes, as they ae held on with 2 screws instead of the original 3.

I will have to sort something out for the side repeaters - they are a different shape to the ones shown earlier in this thread. I'd also like to change the reverse light and number plate light.

I'll put a follow up post on how the kit goes, but don't hold your breath. I've had a bike frame in transit for over 6 weeks now and still no sign of it. :mad:

[VladTepes]

If you stopped crashing you might not need new frames.... ?

[Dave_S]

If you stopped crashing you might not need new frames.... ?

If you're not crashing, you're not riding :D

But in this case, the frame is for a kind of bike I don't currently own. There are two frames coming, one for me and one for Deb. Both Surly Long Haul Truckers (disc version). We will build two identical touring bikes and take them to Cuba next year. Then probably Italy somewhere. And a few tours locally and interstate. We'll each have to sell a bike this time as we've run out of room.

[Reads90]

My indicators have been playing up and now the stop/tail lights have started causing trouble. Relatively new replacement units have started to fail already and I've had to bodge one up just to hold a bulb. So I've decided to bite the bullet and ordered a kit from Bolt On Bits last night. I got the "traditional look" kit with 4 amber indicators. The kit comes with a new flasher relay to suit.

From what I can tell the wiring should be set up to fit directly to the 110 County, but I'm happy to play with connectors if necessary. The bulb holders require new holes, as they ae held on with 2 screws instead of the original 3.

I will have to sort something out for the side repeaters - they are a different shape to the ones shown earlier in this thread. I'd also like to change the reverse light and number plate light.

I'll put a follow up post on how the kit goes, but don't hold your breath. I've had a bike frame in transit for over 6 weeks now and still no sign of it. :mad:

Mine turned up in two weeks from them. Was very surprised at this time of year


Ali

[phill 130]

Thanks Mr Dervish, Golly that pin 7 was tricky to cut, espesh with my rubish eyes, but I got the x60 loupe out and somehow managed it.

Don't have epelictic blinkers anymore, hooray!

Cheers Bloke, great thread.
Phill.

[flagg]

Yeah they are an easy fit to a 110/ county, but I did have to take off the clips, cut the old bullet wires and solder them together. The first four kit arrived in a few days, and took about 3 hours to fit because I had a few screws that snapped when I tried to undo them, and has to work out the trailer plug wiring.

Very very happy. Should have done it ages ago, would have saved a lot of stuffing around.

Mark they are much brighter than standard directly in front or behind. And probably the same brightness as the old ones beside

[dullbird]

Mine turned up in two weeks from them. Was very surprised at this time of year


Ali

shame they are not as prompt with their emails.:( emailed them over a week ago with a question.

[Reads90]

shame they are not as prompt with their emails.:( emailed them over a week ago with a question.

Admittedly they are pretty crap with returning emails. Had the same problem

[Reads90]

Try this company

They look like the same lights but cheaper


http://www.firstfour.co.uk/products/accessory-store/exterior/lighting---light-bars/defender-led-lights

[dullbird]

Excellent thanks Ali

[Dave_S]

My indicators have been playing up and now the stop/tail lights have started causing trouble. Relatively new replacement units have started to fail already and I've had to bodge one up just to hold a bulb. So I've decided to bite the bullet and ordered a kit from Bolt On Bits last night. I got the "traditional look" kit with 4 amber indicators. The kit comes with a new flasher relay to suit.

From what I can tell the wiring should be set up to fit directly to the 110 County, but I'm happy to play with connectors if necessary. The bulb holders require new holes, as they ae held on with 2 screws instead of the original 3.

I will have to sort something out for the side repeaters - they are a different shape to the ones shown earlier in this thread. I'd also like to change the reverse light and number plate light.

I'll put a follow up post on how the kit goes, but don't hold your breath. I've had a bike frame in transit for over 6 weeks now and still no sign of it. :mad:

My kit arrived fairly quickly but it took me until last weekend to fit the new lights. With a County you have to cut off the fancy modern connectors and fit the crimp on male/female connectors supplied with the kit. I didn't solder mine, but will no doubt be punished for this later. I did cover them with heat shrink though.

I'm impressed with how bright the new lights are. The problem is they don't work. Either I have problems in the underlying wiring, or the car is possessed by the ghost of an evil clown. When first fitted the indicators and hazards worked fine. Now if you put the right indicator on all is good, but signalling left turns on the hazard lights. At first the tail lights worked fine, but the left hand brake light wouldn't work. Now when you turn the headlights on the left hand brake light stays on all the time. The right one still works fine.

On top of all this, last night the fuel shut off mechanism decided to go on strike, naturally in the off position. My very understanding partner was at the shops at the time. Guess who made dinner.

Looks like I'll be doing much head scratching over the weekend.

[Dervish]

Pull out the bulb for the indicator light in the dash and report back. That problem occurs because the way the Landies have that particular bulb wired, hooked to both sides of the indicator circuit. With regular old bulbs, the other side's indicators don't light up as the current is too low. With LEDs, any tiny current lights them up.

If it all starts working again with the dash bulb out - which I suspect it will - I have a workaround for you. On mine, the right hand indicators run through the "indicator" dash light to ground, the left hand run through the now useless "trailer light" bulb to ground. This also allows you to use LEDs for the dash bulbs too.

With the tails it sounds like you've swapped the "tail" and "brake" wires from the light? Not sure, I'll put my thinking cap on.

[Dave_S]

Pull out the bulb for the indicator light in the dash and report back. That problem occurs because the way the Landies have that particular bulb wired, hooked to both sides of the indicator circuit. With regular old bulbs, the other side's indicators don't light up as the current is too low. With LEDs, any tiny current lights them up.

If it all starts working again with the dash bulb out - which I suspect it will - I have a workaround for you. On mine, the right hand indicators run through the "indicator" dash light to ground, the left hand run through the now useless "trailer light" bulb to ground. This also allows you to use LEDs for the dash bulbs too.

With the tails it sounds like you've swapped the "tail" and "brake" wires from the light? Not sure, I'll put my thinking cap on.

Thanks Dervish, you were right on the money. The dash bulb was causing the weird indicator issue. I did the same thing as you - swapped a few wires around and used the redundant "trailer" icon to tell me when the left hand indicator is on.

The brake light problems were being caused by the trailer wiring. Whoever put it in left a few bits of wire and crimp on terminal ends exposed. At some point enough current was jumping from the light circuit to light up the brake lights. I just tidied it all up for now and it works fine. The vehicle could use a complete rewire really - I guess I'll add that to the list.

The kit seems pretty impressive once fitted. I'll be interested to see how reliable it is in the long run.

[rar110]

I'd be interested in this work around as I'm looking at replacing the Hella perentie trailer style rectangular lights with LEDs, which have 25 LEDs for each light (brake/tail, indicator, reverse).

[Vin Rouge]

Try this company

They look like the same lights but cheaper


Defender Lighting & Light Bars (http://www.firstfour.co.uk/products/accessory-store/exterior/lighting---light-bars/defender-led-lights)

I bought my set from First Four. Yep, they're the Wipac products.

The flasher unit didn't work properly but FF replaced it with no hassle. Now fitted, everything works fine. Certainly they are a great deal brighter than the old incandescent lamps.

[Dervish]

I'd be interested in this work around as I'm looking at replacing the Hella perentie trailer style rectangular lights with LEDs, which have 25 LEDs for each light (brake/tail, indicator, reverse).


Let me know how you go, as that's something I'll be doing on my Perentie too. In fact, I might have a great deal of questions for you soon.

[Mammalalien]

Hey Dave_S,
I've just done the full set on an 86 V8 County and I'm getting some weird bugs too.

Did you have anything like the fog lamp indicator lighting up on the dash when braking? Or the headlight indicator bulb blowing?

I think I may have inherited your electrical possessed clown ghost.