99 V8 Disco 1 - So over it. Won't run.

[pauly]

Hi all,

My 3.9 V8 99 Discovery 1 is doing my head in :confused:

It began when the thing stopped after running fine.. then would acti like it was going to start.. but wouldn't.... Leave it for an hour, and it would run again for a few ks, then stop. This got progressively worse. now it'll run for a minute or so.

Initially I thought it was a fuel issue but now I know it's spark. Sometimes it's there.. usually it's not.
So,, I woun't bore you with my thought processes but so far I have;

Replaced;
Battery
Fuel Filter
Fuel Pump
Fuel Pump Relay
Fuel Pressure Regulator
Fuel Cap
Ignition Amplifier
Ignition Coil
Rotor
Rotor Button
Ignition Leads

I've also tried;
Ensuring all the earths in the engine bay and drivers/Passenger side are good and tight
Running a good earth from the block to the ignition module bracket
Runnung new leads from the distributor to the ignition module
Resoldering the ECU circuit board
Disconnecting the condensor
Ensuring the fusable link for the ignition circuit is ok
Running 12V straight from battery to ignition coil
Checking the spider (There isn't one!!... not even a cable for one!...

..probably tried other stuff...

Still.. exactly the same result.. Going mad... Please offer advice if you can

Thanks
Pauly

[woko]

Have you tested the pick up coil?
Test it once you have lost spark. remove amplifier and and connect multimeter to it, it should be 2k to 5k ohms.

[PhilipA]

Disconnecting the condensor

Huh?
You probably mean the capacitor to reduce radio interference.

You have done all the obvious things so probably should check on the pickup coil as the other poster said. You are down to very unusual problems.
Do you have a timing Light? I fear you may have done something that has caused a second problem eg pulled on the distributor shaft and lost the weights.
What was the original problem that caused you to do all this?
Did it just stop one day or was there a period when it went but badly?
If you have stated this in another post, just give the reference and I will look at it.
Regard sPhilip A

[pauly]

Hi Woko thanks so much for the reply.
As fellow landrover owners I'm sure you know how demoralising this can be - and it's easy to forget some things I checked :o

The pickup coil in the distributor has around 3.5 k resistance raising to around 3.9 when it's hot (as I would expect) - also the distributor and auto advance units are sound.

I'm starting to suspect the voltage to the coil as when it starts it seems fine then just stops like someone removed the power. All the dash lights etc stay on though so it's not a global problem - ie its localised to the ignition.

Please keep the ideas coming as I am absolutely stumped here :mad:

Thanks again
Pauly

[pauly]

Hi Phillip,

Yes they are sometimes called condensers as well because they condense or hold dc voltage while letting certain frequencies of ac through. Hence the suppressing characteristics with interference.

Anyway - yes I do have a timing light - when its running, the timing is perfect - advancing correctly etc. when its not running there is no spark, and I can therefore see that as the timing light doesn't flash when I'm cranking it over. If I leave it for an hour, I can then see the timing light flash when I crank it over, and it starts ok.

The original problem was that it just stopped on the highway, displaying classic fuel pump symptoms which was why I replaced the fuel system first!

It was running beautifully just before it stopped.

Thanks for the reply
Pauly


Huh?
You probably mean the capacitor to reduce radio interferences

You have done all the obvious things so probably should check on the pickup coil as the other poster said. You are down to very unusual problems.
Do you have a timing Light? I fear you may have done something that has caused a second problem eg pulled on the distributor shaft and lost the weights.
What was the original problem that caused you to do all this?
Did it just stop one day or was there a period when it went but badly?
If you have stated this in another post, just give the reference and I will look at it.
Regard sPhilip A

[PhilipA]

Well really there are not many components in the ignition system , that will cause problems.
It has to be the coil, the distributor or the amplifier or the supply of power to any or those or an earth.
The fact that it is intermittent and stops after a while suggests to me a poor earth or positive connection or a dud coil.
AFAIR there is an ignition relay which you should change for a known good one as poor contacts in a relay could increase resistance . Check the continuity of wiring from the relay to the coil.

You say that you fed 12V to the coil and it still had no spark. This suggests that the new coil may be crook as you should certainly have spark then unless the amp or pickup is crook.

I must say I have never been in this position, but if i were you I would do some component swapping and maybe replace all the wring from coil to amp etc just to eliminate those components.
Regards Philip A

[pauly]

Hi Phillip,

Thanks again for the quick reply.

I agree - I think it's the supply of power as I've run a separate earth as well as checked out and cleaned up the existing earth strap connections.

So.... What are the wires going to the coil etc?
I have a blue and a red wire - they come from the dizzy and go to the module. I also have two wires coming from the module to the coil... So those 4 are obvious in regard to their origin and destination.

There are two other wires going to the coil though that I'm not sure of. One is white with a black stripe, and the other I cannot remember ( not with the vehicle right now) . These two wires come from the loom and I think one is just battery positive switched by the ignition switch however I'm not 100% sure.

Is there a circuit diagram of how these fit in?

Thanks again for the replies and any advice.

Pauly


Well really there are not many components in the ignition system , that will cause problems.
It has to be the coil, the distributor or the amplifier or the supply of power to any or those or an earth.
The fact that it is intermittent and stops after a while suggests to me a poor earth or positive connection or a dud coil.
AFAIR there is an ignition relay which you should change for a known good one as poor contacts in a relay could increase resistance . Check the continuity of wiring from the relay to the coil.

You say that you fed 12V to the coil and it still had no spark. This suggests that the new coil may be crook as you should certainly have spark then unless the amp or pickup is crook.

I must say I have never been in this position, but if i were you I would do some component swapping and maybe replace all the wring from coil to amp etc just to eliminate those components.
Regards Philip A

[OlliesLRover]

You say that it just stopped on the highway one day.

Does it start normally and drive ok for a while then just die and then start again after it cools down.

I notice that a new coolant temp sensor is not on your have done list.

It may be worth a shot, I had similar problems with mine and ended up with a list similar to yours and it ended up being a $30 part.

What was happening was the faulty sensor was fluctuating between 40 & 90 deg so as you were driving it would think the engine was either hot or cold and give it either to much or to little fuel and I would end up stopped on the side of the road until it decided it would start again, until the next time.

[bee utey]

Hi Phillip,

Thanks again for the quick reply.

I agree - I think it's the supply of power as I've run a separate earth as well as checked out and cleaned up the existing earth strap connections.

So.... What are the wires going to the coil etc?
I have a blue and a red wire - they come from the dizzy and go to the module. I also have two wires coming from the module to the coil... So those 4 are obvious in regard to their origin and destination.

There are two other wires going to the coil though that I'm not sure of. One is white with a black stripe, and the other I cannot remember ( not with the vehicle right now) . These two wires come from the loom and I think one is just battery positive switched by the ignition switch however I'm not 100% sure.

Is there a circuit diagram of how these fit in?

Thanks again for the replies and any advice.

Pauly

The +12V feed from the loom to your coil and then the module should be plain white. The white/black stripe wire goes to the ECU and is the rotation signal from the ignition coil to the ECU. There is a resistor bound up near the coil and the wire changes colour after the resistor to white/blue stripe. If this wire is faulty you get no petrol injected, but you will still have spark. Of course the white/black stripe wire from the module to the coil is the switching wire, that allows the module to fire the coil.

You can test the 12V wire by wiring a test light to the coil +ve terminal and mounting it so you can monitor it while driving. If it goes out when the engine stops then your ignition feed is faulty.

The red and blue wires to the distributor pickup are the ones you test with a multimeter for the kind of resistance mentioned below.

In any case your most common problem is loose terminals. Any female terminal should be gently squeezed with flat pliers so that when you push it back on it cuts new contact stripes in the oxide layer on the terminals. All push on terminals should take noticeable force to remove. And they should be as clean as possible.

[pauly]

Thanks bee Urey,

Well I hooked up a test light to the 12 v on the coil and earth (the wire is black and comes from the loom incidentally) and started her up. It ran for a few minutes as always then stopped and the light continued to glow. The light stays on whenever the ignition is on whether the engine starts or won't. In other words - 12v is there reliably. another thing that checks out ok.

The other wire from the loom is white with a black stripe as you mentioned.

So....

I feel like curling up in a ball and sucking my thumb - incidentally what I would come out sucking if you threw me into a barrel full of nipples - if my landrover repair luck is anything to go by :mad::(

Any other avenues you could suggest?

Thanks again
Pauly



The +12V feed from the loom to your coil and then the module should be plain white. The white/black stripe wire goes to the ECU and is the rotation signal from the ignition coil to the ECU. There is a resistor bound up near the coil and the wire changes colour after the resistor to white/blue stripe. If this wire is faulty you get no petrol injected, but you will still have spark. Of course the white/black stripe wire from the module to the coil is the switching wire, that allows the module to fire the coil.

You can test the 12V wire by wiring a test light to the coil +ve terminal and mounting it so you can monitor it while driving. If it goes out when the engine stops then your ignition feed is faulty.

The red and blue wires to the distributor pickup are the ones you test with a multimeter for the kind of resistance mentioned below.

In any case your most common problem is loose terminals. Any female terminal should be gently squeezed with flat pliers so that when you push it back on it cuts new contact stripes in the oxide layer on the terminals. All push on terminals should take noticeable force to remove. And they should be as clean as possible.

[biglandy]

Arh yes if only i any thumbs left!! Don't know if this will help but my disco had three wires from the plug at the dizzy as one's an earth so to speak,to catch any stray charges.Mine now runs through mesh out of coax seem to fix it. Then try try again . Along with very small pick up gap, Its gotta be the ,module,pick up coil or stray charges. Mine was surging today thought it was the spark again then it died,no fuel ,1 pump plug wire dirty. Running fine for now...

[pauly]

G'day Biglandy,

Thanks for the reply - I agree... it _must_ be something I think is good that isn't .... I'm thinking the pickup coil in the dizzy... but it tests (with the multimeter and heat gun) fine!.... Is there anywhere I can get one of them affordably?

Thanks
Pauly



Arh yes if only i any thumbs left!! Don't know if this will help but my disco had three wires from the plug at the dizzy as one's an earth so to speak,to catch any stray charges.Mine now runs through mesh out of coax seem to fix it. Then try try again . Along with very small pick up gap, Its gotta be the ,module,pick up coil or stray charges. Mine was surging today thought it was the spark again then it died,no fuel ,1 pump plug wire dirty. Running fine for now...

[biglandy]

G'day Pauly ,The amount of stuff iv'e played with?? Yes the pick up's aren't cheap , i got one from uk $170 i think with a few other parts ,$15 coil,$20 module all work fine... But a CRAP Maf--Refunded. But mine used to do the no spark as well ... So thats why i replaced it all...then it sometimes missed spark on the timing light after moving module and coil to behide the airbox . So i read about the dizzy wire's and wrapped them in the mesh out of coax and it was fine..best of luck.

[98discovery]

I would definitely check those spade push on lugs on the coil wires . I had mine die in the drive way after doing some other work under the bonnet. I found these terminals were a bit lose but looked ok otherwise. After taking them off and closing them up as mentioned previously it started first go and hasn't happened since. This problem you describe is typical of a high resistance joint that will only get worse with heat.
Good luck hope this helps

[jtktread]

I had a similar problem with my D1 - changed out everything I could think of in the ignition system including the dizzy, reversing the bosch conversion etc.

In the end it turned out to be the new ignition switch I had put in was faulty - it ran fine for a couple of weeks then sh*t itself - nearly tore my hair out trying to work out the fault - thank god I had locked the jerry can in the shed...

John

[pauly]

Hi all,

Well.. that's it..... Just spent more hundreds on a brand new dizzy, another coil and module (came as a set)....

No Luck still not running.

I Hate that car.

I've put a deposit on a reliable brand and have now given up on Landrover. It's me - not the car I know.. but I'm not going to fight it any more.

So ... There's now a 1999 Series 1 Disco LS with leather, climate A/C etc etc .. with a HEAP of new parts, that some smarty can have for a song and fix it. I'm now going to look on this forum for a 'For sale' section. If you have any interest PM me.

Thanks for all the advice but I'm spent.

Pauly

[ozscott]

Pauly did you end up doing the ignition switch?

Cheers

[OlliesLRover]

God I wish you were in NSW, I would be on your door step right now with the $1500.

Just out of curiosity did you ever take it to a Landy mechanic.

[pauly]

Hi,

Well now I wish you were in Vic! :-)

No - Didn't take it to a LR mechanic. The closest one here are lovely guys but the parts are so expensive from there...(example - they want $350 for an ignition module and I got one for $100). Having said that I now know it would probably have been cheaper in the long run but hindsight is always 20/20. The wife says 'NO MORE MONEY ON THAT THING' and I agree with her.

I'd be happy to have a tray truck come and pick it up - if you want to price it up!

Thanks
Pauly

[pauly]

HI Ozscott,

No - but I bypassed it (+ straight from the battery to the coil) with the same results.

Thanks
Pauly


Pauly did you end up doing the ignition switch?

Cheers

[xstriple]

My ignition coil died, completely buggered me. Had enough spark to fool me but not enough to go bang.
Will be something bastardly simple I bet. I got most of my bits from pick a part in Ringwood, the only way I could afford to work on a rover.

[PhilipA]

Did you also run a power wire to the ECU at the same time?
Regards Philip A

[pauly]

My ignition coil died, completely buggered me. Had enough spark to fool me but not enough to go bang.
Will be something bastardly simple I bet. I got most of my bits from pick a part in Ringwood, the only way I could afford to work on a rover.

Hi
Yes - so far this has 2 brand new ignition coils. The one that's in it has had about 5 minutes of work :-)

Pauly

[pauly]

Did you also run a power wire to the ECU at the same time?
Regards Philip A

Hi Phillip,

Nope I didn't - nor will I - it is the devil and I want her gone :-). Whoever fixes it will be stoked as it has so many new parts and drives so well. (Ahem...when the motor is running,)

Thanks
Pauly

[Vanderz]

Theres a really good land rover guy in Romsey. and reasonably priced too. not sure where in melb you are but i would give him a buzz.

[pauly]

Theres a really good land rover guy in Romsey. and reasonably priced too. not sure where in melb you are but i would give him a buzz.

Hi Vanderz
Thanks for that but I'm not spending any more time or money on it - close to 2000 in brand new parts and many weekends sacrificed - enough is enough. I took a loan and picked up another car so I just want it gone. If you know anyone that wants a bunch of good parts for their d1, or a challenge, $1500 will have me welcoming a tray truck! I'm convinced that whoever buys it will be very happy.

Thanks again
Pauly

[pauly]

Hi - I've put some photos here...

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/showthread.php?p=2034147#post2028864
Pauly

[pauly]

HI again

I just put another pic of the rear tailgate hinge area.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/wrecking-notices/69139d1385283300-1999-landrover-discovery-ls-rearhinge.jpg

Thanks
Pauly

[pauly]

Hi again,

I've got it in the for sale sections - will give it to the end of this week on this forum, then will start advertising it elsewhere.

Thanks
Pauly

[pauly]

Hi again
It's gone!

Pauly

[gavin_122]

I don't know If I should make a new post but I am having this exact problem and it is driving me beeping crazy and hunter and cuthill appear to be nice blokes but if only they could fix it without re mortgaging my house.
97 disco v8
I tested parts for months with no luck so I passed it onto them. They have replaced the engine ecu, coil, amp. Leads, plugs.

The original issue was you could drive for an hour or so and the car would start chugging coughing then die and refuse to restart. Leave it for a few hours come back and your good for another hour. Since they changed the ecu it will randomly die hot or stone cold. If I cold start and it's running terrible, give up and walk as it will stop in 5 and won't start for hours.

I read above to change the temp sensor ?
Please help before my wife says it's go to go.

[bee utey]

I don't know If I should make a new post but I am having this exact problem and it is driving me beeping crazy and hunter and cuthill appear to be nice blokes but if only they could fix it without re mortgaging my house.
97 disco v8
I tested parts for months with no luck so I passed it onto them. They have replaced the engine ecu, coil, amp. Leads, plugs.

The original issue was you could drive for an hour or so and the car would start chugging coughing then die and refuse to restart. Leave it for a few hours come back and your good for another hour. Since they changed the ecu it will randomly die hot or stone cold. If I cold start and it's running terrible, give up and walk as it will stop in 5 and won't start for hours.

I read above to change the temp sensor ?
Please help before my wife says it's go to go.

It sounds more likely to be an elderly fuel pump or melting connector plugs to said pump in the loom to the petrol tank. If hitting the fuel tank with a lump of wood gets it going it's almost certainly the pump.

[mike123]

Just my 2 cents worth.

If it coughs and splutters before stopping then I'd be leaning to a fuel supply issue as well. I would have expected that you may be able to restart the car though almost straight away unless there was water in the fuel. Not being able to restart the car for an hour or two sounds like it could have been that the coil has overheated but you mentioned that they have replaced the coil and leads. So back to the fuel supply.

Is there or has there been water in the fuel tank at any time? Does it stall down hill, uphill, or any event that may get the fuel moving around in the tank?

I'd be looking at the pump and inspecting the contents of the fuel tank. The other thing is earthing - look for faulty connections around the fuel supply electricals.

[PhilipA]

I had an issue like this on my 91RRC.
Would go fine for a while then gradually take less and less accelerator.

After I had flushed the tank, and it made no difference, I pulled out all my gear( in Mataranka) to change the fuel pump for a spare.

I had replaced the fuel pump at the start of the trip in Sydney with a Bosch.
I swapped back to the original fuel pump, and just by coincidence later looked at the new Bosch.
The inlet was stuffed with a cotton type material, which I think was filter material from E10 pumps in NSW. Every time I stopped it would fall out of the inlet and then gradually get sucked back in.

The reason that it could stuff up the inlet was that there was a tiny tear in the nylon coarse sock filter.
Regards Philip A

[gavin_122]

The pump was replaced 12 months ago. I am thinking of pulling it out for inspection. If I crank the car for 5 minutes it end up flooding it as well.

[gavin_122]

Just a little note for peoples to think about. If you hold on to the fuel lines running to the injector rail under the bonnet it is pulsing every half a second sort of like a creepy crawly. Is this normal ?

[bee utey]

Just a little note for peoples to think about. If you hold on to the fuel lines running to the injector rail under the bonnet it is pulsing every half a second sort of like a creepy crawly. Is this normal ?
That sounds like a failed fuel pressure regulator. Find the short little vacuum hose that connects the regulator to the back of the inlet manifold. Pull it off the regulator and see if petrol dribbles out of the regulator. I've replaced a few in my time for that reason.

[Foxspell]

I had a similar issue for 18 months, did my head in.
A $25 Engine coolant temperature sender unit was playing havoc with the fueling as the engine came up to temperature.
When you get the replacement part get the Britpart unit as there was a faulty batch of Lucas units where the upper plastic part would spin and therefore not tension up properly.
Cheers,
Lee

[gavin_122]

Just to let everyone know what resolved my issue of the car randomly stopping.
I pulled the fuel pump out to inspect inside the tank for water, dirt etc and the black wire from the fuel pump was not plugged in at all. It will run without it plugged it but I'm guessing it was earthing through the tank ? Aftermarket metal tank. Anyhow I've squashed all the terminals and plugged them all in firmly and the car has been running none stop. After spending thousands at the mechanic and all it was , was a single wire. The car is shuddering ever so slightly on light acceleration which is weird ??
Thanks for everyone's ideas

[dplatt55]

I just wanted to add my experience with my 95 v8. not starting etc;
After doing all that was expected like Pauly, my auto electrician took a deep breath, took out the dash in less that an hour, looked for the little black box (spider) opened it up to find many dry joints. He re soldered them all, tried to start, no joy, I waited about 4 hours,by passed the black box, looked at all the coil connections, found a wire that had been too long and someone had added connectors to it, i squeezed them together, thought i felt them click. Still not confident, re connected the battery, switched her on, and.......she started!!! now to put the dash back when it gets light.

I hope this helps someone.

David