HOW MUCH WEIGHT HAS EVERYONE CARRIED ONTO THE BEACH.

[voltron]

After being at Stockton beach the other day, I saw a Toyoto Landcruiser Dual cab with a bit of weight in it and it made me wonder how much weight can you carry onto the sand in your Defender. I only ask cause I don't want to get caught out. My logic tells me significantly less.

Cheers

[omnibus]

i have been looking for a photo of my old mans landy from when he used to work as pro fisherman on Double island and Fraser island. I can tell you it will carry a lot I have seen the landy with the front wheels almost not touching the ground and he drove thru 2 soft sand cuttings and then about 20-30 mins along the road to Tin can bay. And made mince meat of the f250 that was following also loaded. You can carry more than you can fit on there IMO

[voltron]

i have been looking for a photo of my old mans landy from when he used to work as pro fisherman on Double island and Fraser island. I can tell you it will carry a lot I have seen the landy with the front wheels almost not touching the ground and he drove thru 2 soft sand cuttings and then about 20-30 mins along the road to Tin can bay. And made mince meat of the f250 that was following also loaded. You can carry more than you can fit on there IMO

Haha. The picture in my head kind of scares me. Be interesting if you can find it.

Cheers

[omnibus]

loaded to the hilt with mullet one of the best shots they ever got TONNES AND TONNES of mullet, I will keep looking admittedly it was a while ago so its a leefer not a deefer.

p.s by 'shot' I mean the net going into the water not the photo shot although good photo shot

[newhue]

3.5T over 800km of sand dunes, admittedly its the desert but the same at Fraser and Moreton. 15psi all good

[MR LR]

Why could you carry less on the LR?

You can fit the same size tyres, they're lighter, and have more clearance, I see no logic, unless you merely based it on power.

[voltron]

Yes I guess it was purely based on engine size. But stock tyres also
I'm not sure if they should be wider or fine as they are.

[n plus one]

After being at Stockton beach the other day, I saw a Toyoto Landcruiser Dual cab with a bit of weight in it and it made me wonder how much weight can you carry onto the sand in your Defender. I only ask cause I don't want to get caught out. My logic tells me significantly less.

Cheers

I've done Stockton at GVM in my 110 - as a test run for the Simpson.

No dramas on Stockton and none in the Simpson either - tyre pressures are critical to every offroad situation.

[VladTepes]

Seriously..... does your Defender even lift ?

[Iain_B]

We were at full GVM ( maybe a bit more) on Fraser, the weight helps when pulling out other cars. I drove around him in the even softer sand to get in front of him. Tyres had 15 psi in the front, 22 psi in the back.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/11/1385.jpg

Worst section on Fraser when we were there last week was the Ngkala Rocks bypass. We watch two Land Cruiser 79 series utes were having two or three goes on the way south, but my Land Rover just walked up it first time in second gear low much to their disappointment :)

ATB front and rear lockers and 33" tyres help a bit though :)

On our trip around Australia, we were even heavier, as we had our inflatable boat and outboard, more food and another 75lt of fuel. We drove through the sand to the aircraft wreck off the Anne Beadell highway, there are just some wheel tracks that go through the sand dunes, no clay caps like in the Simpson. No problem at all.

You just need to make sure your springs as correct for the full weight you carry, or you will be hitting the bump stops.

[voltron]

We were at full GVM ( maybe a bit more) on Fraser, the weight helps when pulling out other cars. I drove around him in the even softer sand to get in front of him. Tyres had 15 psi in the front, 22 psi in the back.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/11/1385.jpg

Worst section on Fraser when we were there last week was the Ngkala Rocks bypass. We watch two Land Cruiser 79 series utes were having two or three goes on the way south, but my Land Rover just walked up it first time in second gear low much to their disappointment :)

ATB front and rear lockers and 33" tyres help a bit though :)

On our trip around Australia, we were even heavier, as we had our inflatable boat and outboard, more food and another 75lt of fuel. We drove through the sand to the aircraft wreck off the Anne Beadell highway, there are just some wheel tracks that go through the sand dunes, no clay caps like in the Simpson. No problem at all.

You just need to make sure your springs as correct for the full weight you carry, or you will be hitting the bump stops.

Thanks for the info Ian. The more questions I ask it seems the more questions
I need answering haha.

Now you have raised another. 22psi sounds pretty high for sand, I know you are carrying a fair load, but how does one figure out what the best tyre pressure is for the rear when loaded in sand??

I have noticed since driving around on bitchumen with lower tyre pressure that I was recommended, the rear wobbles a bit now. This concerns me when being loaded and in sand, I get this image of the tyre popping off the rim.

[Lennie_4]

Have done Simpson numerous times and you would be surprised how low your tyre pressures can co when your driving style changes accordingly ie smoothly.
Recently taken defender, family and fully loaded camper ( over 4 t easy ) up fraiser with nil dramas. I measured tread length when deflated to match front, rear and camper tyres.

[newhue]

Voltron,
I have one basic rule on sand, well actually two. 15psi F and R regardless of load, and just put put around the place. Never rolled a tyre, never blown a tyre, never been bogged, and do it at GVM. Cruise at 50 maybe 60 on the hard pack at the beach, and towed the odd punter out who hasn't got it right.

Defender gearing and articulation make you look good, but at 15psi they seem unstoppable.

[voltron]

Voltron,
I have one basic rule on sand, well actually two. 15psi F and R regardless of load, and just put put around the place. Never rolled a tyre, never blown a tyre, never been bogged, and do it at GVM. Cruise at 50 maybe 60 on the hard pack at the beach, and towed the odd punter out who hasn't got it right.

Defender gearing and articulation make you look good, but at 15psi they seem unstoppable.


Ok thanks all for the info.

Have definately taken it it all on board.

Much appreciated.

Cheers

[goanna_shire]

Have done Simpson numerous times and you would be surprised how low your tyre pressures can co when your driving style changes accordingly ie smoothly.
Recently taken defender, family and fully loaded camper ( over 4 t easy ) up fraiser with nil dramas. I measured tread length when deflated to match front, rear and camper tyres.

I agree here. I have towed trailers along shelly(not much sand at all) and fluffy dry sandy beaches and the best advice is to let your fronts down untill just before they leave a line in the middle of the track they are making. This is the point at which they are at their widest and longest footprint without bubbling up underneath themself as they go along. (that is what the line is, the edges scooping sand into the middle leaving a line. This is a lot easier on wet sand). Or as low as you are willing to go will do. Then measure the length of the front tyre footprint with 2 straight edges and a ruler and deflate your rear tyres to the same length. Trailers the same. Road tyres are the best for sand. I have had the 110 loaded possibly a little too heavy :wasntme: and been up in the gulf country on a beach (shells) and done circles around many toymotors and bits a missans down on the chassis rails and they had fat tyres!! I was running 265 75 16 Cooper all terrains.

Momentum is your best friend and don't hit the brakes in dry sand. Eyeball marks on the windscreen and all that good fun stuff!

Cheers,
Brian.

[Iain_B]

I'm not in the "momentum is your friend" category, especially if you are heavily loaded, slow and steady works better for me than charging up things. There always seems to be a big divot where those towing camper trailers have dug a nice hole for those following, and then you either get airborne or if you slow down, your are in the wrong gear and stall. Second gear low, or first gear low and just patience to "paddle" your way up.

Biggest advantage is the 33" tyres, especially when it seems that everyone else runs 31" tyres, then your diff is not dragging in the sand like theirs.

It reminds me a of story, a guy in his 5" Nissan Patrol on 35" tyres challenged a friend of mine in his Unimog

"I can go anywhere you can" he said, so at the first decent mud hole, my friend put his mog into 2wd, dug a nice big hole with his 44" tyres for a bit, then back in 4wd to climb out, and patiently waited until the Nissan bottomed out and was stuck in the bog hole, whilst he sat on the bank waiting to offer him a tow. :twisted:





edit -

Momentum is your best friend and don't hit the brakes in dry sand.

Cheers,
Brian.

[2stroke]

I think offroad performance at GVM is the Defender's greatest strength. Also I think it's important to make the distinction between momentum and speed. I find smooth driving as in where the suspension can "cycle" as in move freely without bottoming out, this speed will be different according to load and track but low 3rd works well for me with midrange engine RPM in many soft situations.
Edit; if this is shown to be too fast by either the suspension working too hard or tight corners, I can change down. If it's really soft it's clutch in, (stops quickly without brakes) grab reverse and go back a metre or 2, select suitable gear (mostly low 2nd) and take off gently.

[voltron]

What about angles?? Are they just best avoided at all cost when load at GVM in the sand, sometimes it's inevitable but I suppose common sense should prevail once again.
I usually chew the seat cover when I have the roof top cage loaded to maximum weight and the road tilts to the left or right. Maybe I am being a bit too cautious
not reallyhaving alot of experience in the Defender.

[dawsey]

We were at full GVM ( maybe a bit more) on Fraser, the weight helps when pulling out other cars. I drove around him in the even softer sand to get in front of him. Tyres had 15 psi in the front, 22 psi in the back..... quote Iain-b..

Was watching telly last week some travel show ,they showed Fraser island..with a american women hosting it ..saw the local ranger on the island drove a 110 wagon..and yes she called it a jeep!!

[inside]

What about angles?? Are they just best avoided at all cost when load at GVM in the sand, sometimes it's inevitable but I suppose common sense should prevail once again.
Just go and drive it. I look forward to your pics when you get back!

[n plus one]

What about angles?? Are they just best avoided at all cost when load at GVM in the sand, sometimes it's inevitable but I suppose common sense should prevail once again.
I usually chew the seat cover when I have the roof top cage loaded to maximum weight and the road tilts to the left or right. Maybe I am being a bit too cautious
not reallyhaving alot of experience in the Defender.

Standard sand driving practice is to avoid cross slopes wherever possible I.e. drive directly up (or down) the face of the slope.

Remember that on somewhere like Stockton, you get to choose your own path.

That said, in my experience a fully laden Defender will stay on its wheels long past the typical operators fear point...

[Iain_B]

The rear tyres would bag out quite a lot. Here is us on the barge on the way back, the rear tyres still at 22 psi. At this stage we had unloaded all 110lt of water before we got on the barge and had about 40lt (out of 120lt) of fuel left in the tank. It took a bit of guesswork in the beginning to sort out the tyre pressures, just kept on dropping then until it "felt right" - the car seems to struggle less on on the sand at the right pressure. We used that combination ( 15/22) on soft sand on our trip without any problems, so I just drop the tyres down to that now. If you have the OEM Defender alloy rims, the chance of it popping a bead is a lot less and on steel rims, their have an internal ridge on the wheel, getting the bead off is very difficult, I had the hi lift jack on the tyre and picked up the whole back of the car without the tyre coming off the internal bead. R&R beadbreaker or Tyre pliers is the only way to get them off. ( Of the two, buy the Tyrepliers, much much easier than the R&R and a whole lot cheaper)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/11/1314.jpg


The front ones at 15psi have a similar length - but look at the height difference between mine and the Land Cruiser in front.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/11/1315.jpg

This what the extra inch of clearance means - you don't drag the diffs through the sand when in wheel ruts.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/11/1316.jpg

Here is us fully loaded on Fraser at Sandy Cape. Tyres leaving not much of an imprint on the harder sands

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/11/157.jpg

Compared to us on the Anne Beadell Highway, on Fraser we had a lot less weight up top and inside. In addition to the roof top tent which has all the bedding and our latex pillow, there is a solar panel under the tent, a bag full of tent poles, shade cloth, small beach tent, a wind break screen behind the tent, we have three boxes with clothes on top of that is our stainless steel side table. There was up to 75lt of fuel and 5 litre of engine oil, an 2.4hp outboard motor, a box with 4kg gas bottle and some interesting rocks the missus wanted to bring back, and another box full of spare radiator hoses, our filter funnel. The sand was softer on the way to the aircraft wreck, and dunes much steeper. So weight up top was pretty high, but we also had a lot of weight down low, and I kept the fuel tank full, moving fuel from the roof to the tank every time we stopped.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/07/1008.jpg

The rear did wobble around on the tarmac when the tyre pressures were low, we drove into Cobber Pedy and didn't bother pumping up the tyres until we got there. We still did 90kph on the tarmac, and the tyre temperatures did not get over 60 degrees.



Thanks for the info Ian. The more questions I ask it seems the more questions
I need answering haha.

Now you have raised another. 22psi sounds pretty high for sand, I know you are carrying a fair load, but how does one figure out what the best tyre pressure is for the rear when loaded in sand??

I have noticed since driving around on bitchumen with lower tyre pressure that I was recommended, the rear wobbles a bit now. This concerns me when being loaded and in sand, I get this image of the tyre popping off the rim.

[weeds]

Just go and drive it. I look forward to your pics when you get back!

yeah i agree......just do it

when i crossed the simpson i had 200kg + on my roof rack......... at a guess we would have been over GVM. i carried all food and water for 18 days including 4 or 5 30 packs of beer.......tyres were around 22 from memory, probably 22 in the rear and 18 in the front

right, wrong or otherwise i got out there and back with no issues.......never looked like getting stuck....oh and i was travelling solo

just have to work on doing another extended trip into the outback

[VladTepes]

sounds like a plan weeds....

[superquag]

Comparitively speaking, how much air was in the Paj's tyres? - weight of it's luggage? - weight of driver's right foot???

Very impressive differance :D

[Iain_B]

If you are talking about the Paj in the photo. They said they had 15 psi front and rear, and the back was full of camping gear. Not sure about the right foot, but probably a bit heavy to did in that deep.