110 SUSPENSION UPGRADE?

[gasman]

Hi all.

Just fitted a camper back to the 110 ute. Driving home revealed a few sphincter raising moments especially at round a bouts.:o
09 110 ute 61ks, how can I improve the suspension so it doesn't want to fall over when cornering and wander about the freeway like an old rangie.
Regards,
gasman.

[debruiser]

Possibly you need to load the trailer better? I have a 90, it will seasaw heaps if I incorrectly load a trailer. Might be worth a play with if you can, would be much cheaper. :D

[gasman]

Its a camper body fitted to the chassis of the 110. Weighs around 500kgs, i think.

[MR LR]

130 Rear suspension?

Or poly-airs if it's temporary. Have you got the rear sway bar fitted?

[gasman]

130 Rear suspension?

Or poly-airs if it's temporary. Have you got the rear sway bar fitted?

Rear sway bar? tell me more, please

[MR LR]

110 wagons have them I think? So I assumed utes do, or maybe it's just fronts on the wagons. I really don't know.

[vnx205]

As you can probably tell from my avatar, I have a slide-on camper on a 110.

It weighs about 350kg empty and has two thirds of the weight in the front one third of the camper, so it is one of the better designs available and may not cause as much alarm as yours.

I needed new shocks, so I fitted Bilsteins and I believe that they significantly reduce the sway in some circumstances.

I later fitted Firestone air bags and run 20 psi when the camper is fitted and the recommended 5 psi when empty. They also considerably reduced the sway.

However my main reason for fitting the air bags was that there are several hills on the way into Bendethera Valley with eco drains. Before I fitted the air bags, it was a tricky balancing act getting the speed right. A couple of km/h too slow and I had to go back to second low all the way up the hill.

If I went a couple of km/h too fast, I could easily maintain third low, but the rear suspension was likely to bottom out over the eco drain. I can now easily maintain the speed needed to hold third with no risk of bottoming the suspension.

The combination of the air bags and good shocks made a huge difference. I think the air bags probably gave a greater improvement than the shocks.

In both cases I bought from the USA because even with the freight, the price was exactly half the price in Australia.

[debruiser]

My bad.... thought you meant a trailer. :angel:

[n plus one]

The above advice is pretty sound IMO - but if you really really want to get it under control I'd go even further and run twin Bilsiens in the rear, upgraded springs and Polyairs to boot. I carry a lot more weight into 110 wagon than you're talking about (including some high CoG stuff, like a RTT) and this set up keeps it all nicely under control.

[steveG]

The fact that its wandering would be more of a concern to me than the cornering as it may indicate that camper CofG is aft of the rear axle and taking weight off the front wheels.

If it was me I'd be trying to weigh it with and without the camper to see how the camper affects the axle weights. Do you have access to a friendly weigh bridge? If there's a public weigh bridge close to you have a chat to them as they may let you weigh for free if you don't need a certificate.
Alternatively, if its a commercial camper the manufacturer should be able to tell you where the C of G is.

Helper airbags (Polyair or Firestone coil-rite) definitely made a big difference to the body roll when loaded on my County.

Steve

[Yorkshire_Jon]

110 wagons have them I think? So I assumed utes do, or maybe it's just fronts on the wagons. I really don't know.

Upto 2007 (not sure about the 2.4 an 2.2's) 110 Wagons had them as standard. The 110DC never had then fitted as standard.

Sent using Forum Runner

[n plus one]

Upto 2007 (not sure about the 2.4 an 2.2's) 110 Wagons had them as standard. The 110DC never had then fitted as standard.

Sent using Forum Runner

My 09 110 wagon has 'em.

[Yorkshire_Jon]

Yes, it will have. All wagons do. It's the 110DC I'm not sure about.

European law dictates the DC is a commercial vehicle and as such doesn't need them. I think LR carry this approach into their ROW spec DC's but I've never had a close look at a 2007 onward 110 DC.

Sent using Forum Runner

[butundede]

My 05 hasn't got them front or rear.

[mools]

In both cases I bought from the USA because even with the freight, the price was exactly half the price in Australia.

Would you mind sharing where from? I'm in the market for shocks and looking to get a good price from overseas.

Cheers,

Ian.

[gasman]

Thanks to all that have chimmed in.
Interesting about CoG as I didnt consider this before, but have ordered Polyairs for the rear and are trying to find a spring retailer in Sydney to supply 130 fronts and standard rears. Also looking at Koni's, but the anchor is having kittens about the price and so am I.
Can buy 5 year old Bilsteins for $200 but who knows if they are stuffed or not?

Can you offer some advice, please?

[gasman]

Photo of my new camper

[n plus one]

Can buy 5 year old Bilsteins for $200 but who knows if they are stuffed or not?

Can you offer some advice, please?

Buying cheap shocks will afford you the opportunity to replace them at exorbitant cost in a remote area at a later date. You may also get the chance to test your emergency water supply calculation...

PS just saw your pic - at least the truck will be easy to find!

[vnx205]

Would you mind sharing where from? I'm in the market for shocks and looking to get a good price from overseas.

Cheers,

Ian.

I got mine from Bilstein Shocks, KW Suspensions and much more: eShocks.com (http://www.eshocks.com) in 2010 for $A512.22 including freight and some $14.49 fee the bank tacked on.

The exchange rate has changed since then and I assume prices would have gone up.

Another possibility is
Bilstein - KYB - Rancho - Monroe - Edelbrock Automotive Truck Shocks and Struts - Shockwarehouse.com (http://www.shockwarehouse.com/index.cfm)

And another
http://www.truckspring.com/

[isuzurover]

...
Can buy 5 year old Bilsteins for $200 but who knows if they are stuffed or not?

Can you offer some advice, please?

FWIW, My Bilsteins are about 13 years old and >200k km, including lots of offroad work including the canning stock route. The rears are starting to fade when hot, however the air suspension conversion has meant they work harder and often at different parts of their travel.

[steveG]

Photo of my new camper

Thanks for posting that. Would love to see some more photos of it and I'm sure others would also be interested.
Do you have a build thread or photos already posted somewhere??

Steve

[gasman]

Thanks. See what I can do

In the meantime, I'm in the process of ordering 130 front and 110 rear springs from British 4WD in Tassie and he is offering to supply RAW 4x4 Nitro Max and as said earlier Ive ordered the PolyAirs as well.
Saw this on a South African forum and they were spewing that we had such great magazines and they didn't.

Check it out
RAWhttp://www.raw4x4.com.au/SiteFiles/raw4x4comau/FEATURE_shock_comparo_WEB.pdf
I'll let you all know how they go.

[gasman]

[QUOTE=vnx205;2026252]I got mine from Bilstein Shocks, KW Suspensions and much more: eShocks.com (http://www.eshocks.com) in 2010 for $A512.22 including freight and some $14.49 fee the bank tacked on.

RoverParts in Melbourne have a special on Bilstein shocks $580 for 4

[gasman]

Here's some more photos. I bought it on the weekend off ebay. It has everything including the kitchen sink. Only have to fit a hot shower for the cook and we are there, wherever there is.:D
Any thoughts on hot showers?

[steveG]

We use a 12v one that goes in a bucket. Cold water in a bucket, billy of hot water to suit your taste and away you go. Surprising how little water you use.
You can get real flash and hook up a proper holder for it but we've found that hand holding the nozzle is a lot more efficient at getting the water where it needs to go with limited flow.

In the past I've considered the heat exchanger type that goes on the engine, but I've got an aversion to extra hoses that connect to my cooling system as every one is a potential source of failure.

I prefer the simple pump in the bucket solution as its cheap, water is perfect temperature (or you've only got yourself to blame if it isn't!!), and you don't need to run the engine to make it work.

The other thing to consider is what type of camping you do and how plentiful the water supply. No point having the awesome hot shower setup with a bazillion litres per minute if you're mainly camping in the desert :angel:

Steve

[gasman]

Thanks SteveG.
If I was camping in the desert, then an APC would be in order.
Armpits and crutch by order of the cook.;)

[gasman]

Hi all.
Replaced rear springs with Dobinson +25% for the extra weight of the camper. Rear shocks (Raw4x4) whilst the name did not appeal to me, the write up did. (4x4 Australia shock test).
Poly Air bags.
Took about 4 hrs and 15 swear jars full of coin, but pulled it off in the end. Phew. Next is the front end.
Oh and "Uncle Buck" rides very well in the rear now even without a load I can notice the difference. Geez, it must have been stuffed before then. :angel:
The last photo is the job I had to do on the fuel filter when the camper fell off the stands and broke it. Those blue little #$%^s are hell to get off because of all the grit that builds up in them. So I had to destroy one to see how they fitted. Fitted the new one from england (half the Aussie price) and thats when I had to improvise. I don't know if you can buy them separate, however I didn't find out, so all you Virgo's out there, take a pill, it's working fine.

[MLD]

Gasman, what are the dimensions of your camper? Mind if I steal ideas from it for a set up of my own.

MLD

[gasman]

[QUOTE=MLD;2040762]Gasman, what are the dimensions of your camper? Mind if I steal ideas from it for a set up of my own.

Roughly, 2100 long 1850 across and 1200 high to under the top section.
The rig weighs about 480 kilo wet and thats part of the reason why I updated the suspension. Can post detailed photos if you wish, just let me know.

I'm now converting the top section which is about 1400 wide to a bed with a flip up roof as for me its a lot of wasted space up there and I don't like being top heavy. The wife has the same problem. Lucky me.:twisted:

[gasman]

Just been off road up the forest. Well, I'm not completely happy with the new suspension.
Travels over small bumps well, but there is now a big banging noise somewhere in the front end when hitting something bigger, above 30k/hr.
Maybe I haven't tightened up the shock nuts enough.

Hey, how do you know when they are tight enough?

Have 2 loose nuts where the camper fits to chassis, but this is what I was looking for as it's the first outing with the camper attached.

Still rolls like the QE2 and that's what I'm not happy with after spending so much time, effort and research into getting the best set up.

Oh well, maybe next time I will get it right:(

Next is steering damper, rear anti sway bar and then performance chip.
Any suggestions on who manufacturers one that suits the Puma please?????

[gasman]

Just back from our first o/n trip with boat in tow.
Average performance, but exceptional mileage considering I went through Newcastle from Swansea end and got every red light. 12.9 ltrs/100 weighing in at 2700kgs + the boat, so not bad, just very slow hence all the red lights.
Suspension is doing its job, but on the expressway, you have to plan ahead as any sudden changes in direction upsets everything and will induce a roll over……...

[n plus one]

Just back from our first o/n trip with boat in tow.
Average performance, but exceptional mileage considering I went through Newcastle from Swansea end and got every red light. 12.9 ltrs/100 weighing in at 2700kgs + the boat, so not bad, just very slow hence all the red lights.
Suspension is doing its job, but on the expressway, you have to plan ahead as any sudden changes in direction upsets everything and will induce a roll over……...

Take a gander at your trailing arm bushes (particularly the chassis end) they can wear quite quickly and dramatically effect handling at speed (tail end gets 'swervy').

I recently replaced mine and the improvement in stability during direction changes is marked.

[steveG]

Just back from our first o/n trip with boat in tow.
Average performance, but exceptional mileage considering I went through Newcastle from Swansea end and got every red light. 12.9 ltrs/100 weighing in at 2700kgs + the boat, so not bad, just very slow hence all the red lights.
Suspension is doing its job, but on the expressway, you have to plan ahead as any sudden changes in direction upsets everything and will induce a roll over……...

Setup on my county is not unlike yours in terms of springs etc.
Dobinsons C51-015 fronts and C51-011 rears (400lb/in). Firestone airbags in the rear. About a 40mm lift from standard I think, rooftop tent, weighing around 3T fully loaded/fueled etc.
Its stable towing our 1.5T Jayco with light weight distribution hitch.

Two things I particularly noticed while getting mine to this stage:
- When I removed my rear sway bar to fit my long range tank it made a HUGE difference to body roll. That was with rear springs around the 320lb/in rating. Heavier rear springs improved body roll, and a bit more air in the bags (20psi) when loaded up also helps.
- Prior to having my swivels slotted it was quite (nasty) twitchy on direction changes at speed. No issue now.

Although you are a similar weight to mine, you've got some rear overhang that I don't. Apart from suspension bushes already mentioned, I'd be looking at getting it on a weighbridge (with and without the boat) and getting some axle weights. Picking you could be quite light on the front with combination of boat and rear overhang.
Get the caster measured too, as if its zero or negative that definitely makes them twitchy.\

EDIT: Just had another look at your photo's and you've actually got bugger all more than a wagon in terms of rear overhang. Still be interesting to get axle weights - I've got an Isuzu holding the front of mine down ;)

Steve

[gasman]

"Prior to having my swivels slotted it was quite (nasty) twitchy on direction changes at speed. No issue now".

What is a slotted swivel. Some kind of nasty STD? No seriously, what is that?

[steveG]

"Prior to having my swivels slotted it was quite (nasty) twitchy on direction changes at speed. No issue now".

What is a slotted swivel. Some kind of nasty STD? No seriously, what is that?

In a nutshell its a method of adjusting caster to get it back to factory settings.

From the factory, they come with approx 3deg positive caster in the front suspension, but that reduces as you lift the ride height. Caster reduces approx 1deg for every half an inch IIRC.
A couple of inches lift and you're down towards 0deg. Positive caster gives you directional stability and predictable steering. None or negative makes them twitchy when you change direction.

With them being live axle, the 2 main ways to increase caster are to either fit caster correction bushes (which also changes diff pinion angles which can create other issues), or to slot the mounting holes on the swivel ball where it bolts to the axle housing. Once slotted, the swivels can be rotated (rearwards at the top) to increase caster and get it back to the factory 3deg.

Steve

[n plus one]

Re axle weights, my Puma runs at GVM and I weigh bridged her the other day - 1.2T front, 1.9T rear axle.

Set up is tubular winch bar plus wire rope Warn, forward mounted RTT, full expedition roof rack with awnings, long rang tank, cargo drawers, water tank behind rear seats and in rear guards right distribution matches axle load limits perfectly!

FWIW, I found caster was more of an issue with twitchinless/directional stability (I went with caster corrected radius arms) rather than sway/roll over terror:eek:

[gasman]

How do I know if the bushes are buggered on the trailing arms.
Mine sit a little off the face where they connect, but seem OK??????
And considering my load, would I be better going for poly or OME.

Thanks

[steveG]

Pretty normal for them to sit a little off the face at the top I think. Mine don't as I've fitted Superpro poly bushes. With trailing arm bushes the its more likely the trailing arm to axle ones that will be stuffed. Lever between housing and radius arm using a large screwdriver or tyre lever and if there's any visible movement they are likely stuffed.
I personally like superpro but the general concensus seems to be genuine rubber or Superpro poly.

Steve